2018-03-31 GnuCash IRC logs

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02:33:42 <chris> TR: annoyingly, neither LibreOffice nor Excel can import html-table-cells with formatting correctly. They both parse "$2.00" correctly but not other currencies. LibreOffice can import sdval amount, but ignores its own sdnum format. I've stored progress in https://github.com/christopherlam/gnucash/tree/unstable-TR-sdval-cell for posterity for now.
02:35:00 <chris> I think I need to conclude that Report>Spreadsheet export must be via a customised .ods exporter. :-(
02:35:57 <chris> devs if the fist 2 commits in this branch are useful, then please grab :)
03:33:53 <arahael> chris: There are pretty darn good MS excel writers, the one I'm thinking of is actually written in javascript, but with bindings to quite a few langauges.
03:34:03 <arahael> (If that helps, at all)
03:35:30 <arahael> Hmm, no, it's just python, it seems.
03:36:03 <arahael> ANyway, I was referring to xslxwriter.
03:36:23 <arahael> https://xlsxwriter.readthedocs.io
03:36:28 <arahael> So... xlsxwriter, rather. :)
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04:50:59 <gjanssens> .
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05:18:38 <chris> arahael: thx; I'd be wary of loading a fat external excel writer - we love OSS standards after all. the requirements for reporting are not heavy and should really be customized to simple tables/strings/numbers/currency amounts, and simple sums.
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08:04:15 <chris> gjanssens the TR infrastructure allows spinoffs eg. I have a branch master-tr-business which can retrieve txn's associated invoice and show detail https://imgur.com/a/djvIt - I'd need some direction how best to direct further efforts after 3.0
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08:52:36 <chris> I'm thinking that combining the *invoice.scm files could be reasonable
08:56:37 <gjanssens> chris: yes that would make sense. The tax-invoice.scm is the most versatile and can probably be tweaked to look like any of the others with proper css added
08:57:47 <gjanssens> But there it gets complicated: we have two style systems in the reports either the Stylesheets which are really code to inject style elements in the html files
08:58:00 <gjanssens> And then there are the eguile reports which can be styled using css
08:58:48 <gjanssens> I think we should really clean this up and in this modern day and age I would love to see the custom stylesheet code replaced with css for all reports.
08:59:04 <chris> did you mean taxinvoice.scm the Australian Tax Invoice?
08:59:23 <gjanssens> That could be a challenging project but very rewarding IMO
08:59:45 <gjanssens> the Australian Tax invoice is a spin off of the normal tax invoice
09:00:16 <chris> my brain can't handle the eguile stuff for now; I'm heavily reliant on emacs which gets angry with combined scheme+html and refuses to assist.
09:00:50 <chris> if taxinvoice.scm is the versatile one I'll try to combine it all under its wing
09:01:10 <gjanssens> Only the template part of eguile is a mix of html with scheme
09:01:48 <gjanssens> There is always 3 files: the template, an scm file defining the variables you can use in the template and a css file
09:04:05 <gjanssens> Essentially for eguile you start by creating an html file representing the report you want and then replace the variable parts of that html file with scheme calls.
09:04:39 <gjanssens> I'll admit I haven't written them myself though, I've only looked at them.
09:05:04 <gjanssens> What assistance do you expect from emacs that it can't give you ?
09:07:10 <chris> emacs - will easily indent lisp, allow whole s-exp cut&pastes, navigate s-exps beautifully. with numerous html tags around it's not that easy
09:08:13 <gjanssens> Hmm, indeed. It will require more manual work in that case.
09:08:31 <gjanssens> Still the separation of data and layout are major benefits of the eguile reports.
09:09:23 <gjanssens> For traditional reports the layout is completely built in code, which is pretty opaque from the outside.
09:10:48 <chris> well I can keep looking at it; perhaps with experience the solution will come through
09:12:42 <chris> I come from python and looked at jinja briefly too and understand its appeal
09:13:48 <gjanssens> Yes,... tbh I don't think eguile will be our final solution, but one step in the right direction...
09:14:19 <gjanssens> as we don't have python bindings on all supported platforms a reporting framework based on that language is currently not an option.
09:14:42 <gjanssens> It appears to be hard to get python bindings running on all supported platforms.
09:15:04 <gjanssens> Perhaps with the switch to mingw64 this cycle we may come closer on Windows, though I really don't know
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10:00:27 <eric> Hi !
10:00:41 <eric> Where can i find french help documentation ?
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10:12:18 <jralls> chris: emacs has a "web" mode for php, which often mixes code and html. I think it's configurable, but if it isn't you should be able to adapt it for equile without too much effort.
10:12:34 <chris> :-o
10:13:38 <chris> famous last words!
10:14:01 <jralls> eric: No one has ever volunteered to translate the documentation into French.
10:16:50 <jralls> gjanssens: The issue isn't so much that the bindings aren't available. I've not tested on Windows, but they do work fine on Mac. The problem is that just as with Guile the bindings need to be linked with the shared library that underlies the python interpreter, so in order to include the bindings in the AIO we'd also need to bundle much of Python.
10:17:34 <chris> eguile is ghostware nowadays, no trace anywhere except as a relic within gnucash; it seems to construct html as it was 12 years ago. all I can promise is to look... and also look at gnu artanis the scheme web framework for ideas / tutorials
10:19:10 <gjanssens> I'm not married to eguile itself. I only prefer its separation of data and presentation.
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10:20:19 <gjanssens> If we can find a better alternative, I'm all for it. Ideally a template framework written in C++, with sql query capabilities, and outputting to html
10:20:44 <jralls> Hmm. Maybe we should just trash the eguile reports, then. There are only 3, and one of them (balance sheet) duplicates a normal report. We
10:21:00 <jralls> We'd need rewrites on receipt and taxinvoice.
10:21:09 <gjanssens> Variations are welcome as long as the output file is reasonably portable/preferrably interactive (charts)
10:21:34 <gjanssens> I would not revert to plain code based html rendering.
10:22:16 <gjanssens> I find that more difficult to understand what's going on
10:22:31 <eric> @jralls thank for answer
10:22:31 <gncbot> eric: Error: "jralls" is not a valid command.
10:22:38 <eric> jralls thank for answer
10:22:42 <gjanssens> Or we need to restructure the reports fundamentally to separate data collection from presentation
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10:23:03 <jralls> gjanssens: +1 to that.
10:23:07 <chris> IIRC the Aussie Tax Invoice was popular enough to get included as standard; it'd need to be rewritten
10:23:21 <chris> I'll keep exploring then
10:23:47 <jralls> I think JSON would probably be the preferred intermediate format these days.
10:25:03 <gjanssens> That would be a good one and I had that in mind for the future of saved reports as well rather than the custom scheme code blobs we use now.
10:26:50 <chris> there's also a lisp goldmine: the racket ecosystem will have some templating engine
10:27:04 <gjanssens> Other options are xml. That allows xslt transforms and such. I don't know if JSON has similar conversion features
10:27:13 <chris> or I just found this one which seems modern http://mustache.github.io/#demo
10:27:17 <jralls> While we're dreaming, I'd like to replace HTML, too.
10:27:23 <chris> anylanguage(includes racket) + json = html
10:27:31 <gjanssens> jralls: with what ?
10:28:05 <jralls> I don't know, but something that doesn't require incorporating a web browser into GnuCash.
10:28:53 <jralls> Keeping WebKit working is a major pain-point.
10:29:06 <gjanssens> mustache looks promising...
10:29:26 <gjanssens> jralls: ack on webkit
10:29:32 <jralls> You're growing one? ;-)
10:29:58 <gjanssens> :D The other half wouldn't approve ;p
10:30:25 <jralls> A common problem. :-/
10:31:05 <gjanssens> As for the html thing, I remember last time we looked we found a simple html renderer, but it required some integration. That could still be an option as far as I know.
10:31:39 <gjanssens> We didn't have time then to properly test it and check whether we could get it to integrate a javascript engine
10:31:43 <gjanssens> (for interaction)
10:32:45 <gjanssens> But no doubt other options should exist as well
10:33:00 <gjanssens> Though this is not the time to search for them :)
10:33:22 <jralls> No, it required us to write the renderer backend. It's just a framework that associates markup tags with callbacks, we'd have to write the callbacks.
10:33:58 <gjanssens> Oh, that may be too much... oh well. For later...
10:34:15 <gjanssens> What's still TBD before 3.0?
10:34:29 <gjanssens> Anything still blocking other than bugs in NEEDINFO state ?
10:35:11 <jralls> I was just going there. I think only the report date one, 794767.
10:35:32 <gjanssens> Right
10:37:27 <jralls> I started making some screenshots for a "what's new" page, and found another problem with loading import maps, this time for the import map editor. I need to investigate that a bit more.
10:38:01 <gjanssens> There is still Bob's PR for the import map editor. Perhaps that deals with it already ?
10:39:51 <jralls> I didn't get a chance to check that, I found it just before I had to knock off yesterday. But I don't think so, the problem is failure to match GUIDs. It's possible that it was a bad test file.
10:41:41 <jralls> Oh, I see that I was on the wrong branch, so I need to rebuild and re-test.
10:43:26 <jralls> Have you resolved your concerns with SQL-backend KVP handling?
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10:53:14 <chris> mustache sounds very promising indeed... a fairly well-defined spec, no if/loop code in template (uses # / . symbols), multiple languages (but no guile) - can be started in guile and upgraded to C++ one day ... but this will be for gnucash4.0
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11:10:38 <jralls> chris: Back to here-and-now, have you looked at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794767?
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11:32:57 <gjanssens> jralls: Yes, I think I'm done with the sql backend KVP handling. I have done some code reading and I think my fixes will potentially solve other bugs that were indirectly related to wrongly loading kvp's in 2.7.x
11:33:28 <gjanssens> I'm thinking of one issue Mechtilde had with online banking not working any more (she mentioned this on Fosdem to me)
11:33:43 <gjanssens> But I can't test as I don't use online banking;
11:37:16 <jralls> OK. And the online banking I use is a bit different from what Mechtilde uses, though once the data gets to GnuCash it should be the same. But Mechtilde hasn't retested her bug after a month, so I'm about to close it as incomplete.
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11:38:33 <gjanssens> I'm now looking at the missing counters in File->Properties and I see where that goes wrong.
11:38:40 <gjanssens> A fix will follow soon
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11:54:46 <fell> gjanssens: About Mechtildes bug https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-de/2018-March/010228.html
11:55:31 <fell> that thread and the mentioned bug are the last state.
11:56:52 <fell> jralls: after DiMans bug is fixed, we should at least adjust the errormessage.
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11:58:19 <jralls> fell: Which bug is that?
11:59:00 <fell> the gtk issue in the online banking setup
12:01:30 <fell> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794707
12:03:48 <gjanssens> fell: I was not talking about a gtk issue in online banking, though perhaps that was/is the real issue.
12:04:12 <gjanssens> I saw some aqbanking parameters stored in kvp wouldn't get loaded any more, which is now fixed
12:05:11 <jralls> fell: That's not online banking, it's edit account.
12:05:39 <fell> Mechtilde had no BIC in assigned to her local account, because it is no longer required in the SEPA.
12:07:07 <fell> jralls: in the lower half of the dialog are the settings for online banking.
12:07:38 <jralls> fell: Which has absolutely nothing at all to do with that bug.
12:08:16 <fell> That's where he stopped testing the other bug.
12:08:56 <fell> He was confused: Are the settings accepted or disappeared they?
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12:12:12 <fell> I have to runa some errands. Back in ~3h.
12:12:13 <jralls> Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong "Edit Account". It's the one in AQBanking's setup window.
12:12:28 <threex5> Hi all, is it possible to connect gnucash to paypal using aqbanking?
12:13:18 <jralls> threex5: AFAIK Paypal doesn't support ofx anything, so no.
12:13:22 <fell> AFAIK some versions of aqbanking support paypal, but none of us ever tried it from gnuchash.
12:14:06 <threex5> huh, ok. because I do have a number of clients who pay me there, and I buy stuff from ebay there
12:14:10 <jralls> fell: Would that be paypal in Germany, via HBCI?
12:14:14 <threex5> so sometimes transactions never make it to my bank
12:14:40 <fell> No, they have their own protocol.
12:14:54 <threex5> jralls, I thought I saw in the gnucash faq that aqbanking is what powers both ofx and paypal
12:15:20 <threex5> here https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.6/C/gnucash-guide/gnc-gloss.html
12:15:32 <fell> And we were waiting for you the write the connector ;-)
12:15:40 <threex5> heh
12:16:14 <threex5> it says aqbanking is the library that implements ofx and paypal
12:17:34 <fell> Yes, but now we need dialogs to a) configure the connection , b) handle errors, ...
12:18:14 <fell> Anyway, until later!
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12:18:38 <jralls> Or rather that AQBanking needs the dialogs to configure everything.
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12:26:20 <threex5> I see
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12:27:50 <threex5> is it possible to connect a credit card to gnucash?
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12:29:24 <gjanssens> There. The counters issue is fixed.
12:29:32 <gjanssens> And that's all I can still add today.
12:30:07 <jralls> threex: Depends on the credit card issuer. I can connect to my usaa account but not my capital one account.
12:31:43 <gjanssens> I think that leaves one issue to solve: bug 794767, right ?
12:32:27 <gjanssens> As for known issues: we should mention python bindings are currently not working (due to the flawed path detection)
12:33:14 <gjanssens> And probably go over each bug reported against 2.7. If these are minor bugs we chose not to fix for 3.0, we should add them in a list of known issues.
12:33:17 <gjanssens> What do you think ?
12:33:25 <jralls> I think that's overstating it: The python bindings will work as long as everything is installed in the default locations.
12:33:51 <jralls> However, it is worth mentioning.
12:34:17 <gjanssens> That's better indeed.
12:34:52 <jralls> Unfortunately PR325 is broken, it creates an empty list and spews a ton of errors from gtktreestore about an invalid column number.
12:35:35 <gjanssens> Oops, I didn't see that in my testing...
12:35:52 <gjanssens> But I tested only on the test-dbi.xml book.
12:36:53 <gjanssens> I have now run it on my moer complete book and still don't see issues.
12:37:14 <gjanssens> Do you have online id import map data ? That's the only thing I don't have
12:37:23 <jralls> Does your book have an import-map-bayes?
12:37:47 <gjanssens> Again on release we'd have to repeat all the release remarks that we had added in the 2.7 release messages provided they are still valid
12:37:49 <jralls> Yes, lots.
12:38:01 <jralls> Yes, of course.
12:38:50 <gjanssens> And important! Users that had tested with any version of 2.7.x are encouraged to delete the new <data_home>/Gnucash directory to get a proper conversion
12:39:07 <gjanssens> It did require fixes inbetween several releases
12:39:18 <gjanssens> And yes, I have plenty of bayes import maps
12:39:38 <gjanssens> s/encouraged/strongly advised/
12:40:01 <gjanssens> So I suspect the issue is in the online import map part of the code.
12:40:15 <jralls> OK. Speaking of data_home/Gnucash, do you have any insights for David Carlson's (aka here as RobertXXX) problem?
12:40:27 <gjanssens> My test book is xml by the way, should that make a difference
12:40:46 <gjanssens> Sorry, what problem was that ?
12:41:24 <jralls> Tail end of gnucash-user. Basically he tried out 2.7.3 and it's screwed up his 2.6.18/19.
12:41:39 <jralls> He tried a new user and that worked OK.
12:43:23 <jralls> Hmm, I see it with xml too, but it's xml created from a sql database so the frames may look weird.
12:46:23 <jralls> Yes, my import-map-bayes keys are flattened. Are yours?
12:52:08 <gjanssens> Hmm, no they aren't :(
12:52:30 <gjanssens> But wait, I have never saved this file with 2.7 yet
12:52:48 <gjanssens> Let me do that now to see if the conversion runs
12:54:11 <gjanssens> Saving doesn't flatten the import-map-bayes data unfortunately :(
12:54:16 <gjanssens> A new bug.
12:54:49 <gjanssens> It has been converted to guid at some point in time, but not flattened afterwards
12:54:50 <jralls> Interestig. Does it set the "Account GUID based bayesian with flat KVP" feature?
12:55:13 <gjanssens> No, only the non flat version
12:56:03 <jralls> That's odd. lmat, are you here?
12:56:18 <gjanssens> I have to leave now... Hope you get it fixed easily...
12:56:20 <gjanssens> Good luck!
12:56:37 <jralls> Thanks, I may need it. Release tomorrow is looking doubtful.
12:58:15 <jralls> You're away till next weekend, right?
12:59:50 <gjanssens> Yes
13:00:26 <gjanssens> Next weekend included, I'll be back Tuesday 10
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16:33:27 <lmat> Hmm, strangest thing... I'm looking at my chequing account balance, and it shows very low. When I reconcile, everything is okay, balance greater than 7000 (it's not off by just a little bit).
16:34:02 <lmat> I'm looking at the register for that account, and it goes negative several times; the account was opened last year in august.
16:35:28 <lmat> I would imagine that I forgot to put in a couple pay checks or something, but reconciliation shows everything okay. So maybe there are some expenses double-entered? But they should show up in reconciliation? The unreconciled items number 6 and total $1500.
16:35:40 <lmat> Oh yeah, duh, I'm using version 2.6
16:35:52 <lmat> 2.6.19 that is.
16:36:05 <lmat> On arch linux ;-) Anyway, any clues would be great.
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16:37:13 <lmat> The balances on the bottom of the register are: Present: Future: Cleared: Reconciled: Projected Minimum. All of them are well below 4000. Specifically, Reconciled shows about 5000 lower than when I reconcile the account.
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17:52:33 <jralls> lmat: My first guess would be that you put in some txns for the wrong date, so go back through the register and look for transactions that aren't reconciled.
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19:02:29 <lmat> jralls: First, the reconciliation window should show those, right? And yes, I've gone through the register (using the Basic Ledger view), and I only see the ones that I see on the reconciliation window.
19:02:39 <lmat> Oh yeah, I also make sure I wasn't filtering, etc.
19:03:35 <jralls> Yes, the reconcile window should show all unreconciled transactions.
19:03:39 <lmat> Oh, I see the correct balance in the Account tree view under "Present". The entry under "Balance" is off. I would think that "Present" should be the balance just above the blue line in the register, but it isn't.
19:04:39 <jralls> I'm confused: I thought that the incorrect balances were the ones in the status bar: Present, Future, Cleared, and Reconciled.
19:04:50 <jralls> Are those correct?
19:05:18 <lmat> jralls: The ones at the bottom of the ledger in the status bar are all incorrect.
19:05:36 <lmat> jralls: They match what the register says actually.
19:05:54 <lmat> Perhaps some screen shots are in order.
19:06:34 <jralls> OK, but if the register is wrong then how does it reconcile?
19:07:01 <lmat> jralls: Excellent question. I have no answer.
19:08:24 <jralls> Does the reconcile window have any unreconciled transactions in it?
19:14:10 <lmat> jralls: Yes. They total $1500 or so. I'll give a screen shot.
19:17:52 <lmat> Account tree: https://i.imgur.com/ZUHgLvq.png register: https://imgur.com/a/8O7IJ reconcile window: https://imgur.com/a/XnbA1
19:18:32 <lmat> (I checked all the unreconciled items so that you can more easily see the total. They are not to be reconciled yet.)
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19:47:08 <jralls> lmat: Is there a point where the running balance in the register comes close to the statement balance?
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19:49:03 <lmat> jralls: Well, it starts correctly, and seems to progress sanely for a few transactions.
19:49:21 <jralls> How far back does it go?
19:49:37 <lmat> jralls: Account opened last August or so.
19:49:42 <lmat> jralls: I may just need to drill down. Worst case scenario: re-reconcile since account opening. Since it's a fairly new account that's not too bad.
19:49:55 <lmat> jralls: Curious screen shots though, huh?
19:50:29 <jralls> Yeah. Here's a thought: You haven't changed the sort order, have you?
19:51:08 <lmat> jralls: Checked that. I *had* changed it. Maybe it got messed up when I changed it back?
19:52:04 <lmat> jralls: I ordered by amount to find a transaction, then put it back.
19:52:05 <jralls> It's on standard order now? Quit Gnucash or change books to force it to recalculate the balances.
19:52:17 <lmat> jralls: It's on standard order now.
19:52:25 <lmat> jralls: I'll restart in a bit; just now I'm reconciling something else.
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20:25:52 <lmat> Restarted, still no joy!
20:27:14 <jralls> Weird.
20:32:29 <chris> lmat : could it be that your account is counting txns from a child account?
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20:40:17 <chris> I'm travelling next week too so will have limited time for hacking next 8 days
20:43:48 <jralls> OK, have a good trip. I've decided to go ahead with the release tomorrow, so 3.1 will be in 4-6 weeks unless someone finds a critical bug that requires a snap release.
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22:15:04 <lmat> @tell chris "could it be that your accounting ... from a child account?" Yes, I do believe that is the case! There is a child account carrying $5000 for a rainy day! \o/
22:15:04 <gncbot> lmat: The operation succeeded.
22:15:49 <lmat> I enjoy how gnucash handles child accounts and makes it easy to aggregate them into parent accounts. Bummer when I forget about the child accounts though!
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