2018-03-07 GnuCash IRC logs

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15:58:19 <fell> Thanks!
16:10:16 <warlord> I need to upgrade code and update gncbot to limnoria
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18:27:33 <chris> I'm rewriting the ugliness of fake-json in html-barchart.scm https://github.com/christopherlam/gnucash/blob/master-refactor-charts/gnucash/report/report-system/html-chart.scm
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22:05:25 <CharlesIC> hello
22:05:36 <CharlesIC> im having a problem with organizing some business transactions
22:05:55 <CharlesIC> if i have an invoice, and im billing a customer for a payment, shouldn't i put "income: sales" for that?
22:06:15 <CharlesIC> the problem is, if i have a client that has not paid, it still shows i'm making X amount in sales
22:06:20 <CharlesIC> but really i haven't made that because it was never paid
22:07:09 <CharlesIC> when i make an invoice, and post it, and nothing has been paid
22:07:21 <CharlesIC> should income account be accounts receivable or income: sales?
22:07:35 <CharlesIC> the problem is if i do income:sales how do i see how much income i actually made that year?
22:08:03 <CharlesIC> it seems like i have to use income:sales, no other option
22:08:13 <CharlesIC> so how do i see how much money i actually recieved that was paid on my invoices?
22:08:17 <CharlesIC> accounts receivable?
22:09:34 <fell> CharlesIC: Are you using the business features (A/R, A/P & builtin Invoice) or do you it manually?
22:09:52 <CharlesIC> i believe im using business features?
22:09:59 <CharlesIC> i add a customer, then i create an invoice
22:10:05 <CharlesIC> i then post an invoice
22:10:21 <CharlesIC> and when i receive payments, i show it in the checking account and then assign it as a payment to a particular invoice
22:10:53 <CharlesIC> the problem is if i then go to income:sales, that is not reflective of money i actually received this year
22:11:02 <CharlesIC> because in one case, a client has still not paid but it shows it there
22:11:57 <fell> OK, and you have read https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_bus_features.html ?
22:12:54 <CharlesIC> yes, i created a business there, too
22:13:51 <fell> While telling this, I see it is missinge a reference to later used reports like client report, aging report, ...
22:13:56 <CharlesIC> :)
22:14:04 <CharlesIC> actually if i could ask another more simple question real quick
22:14:21 <CharlesIC> i received a 356.65 check the other day
22:14:25 <CharlesIC> 350 was payment or income
22:14:33 <CharlesIC> 6.65 was reimbursement for me paying for shipping
22:14:49 <CharlesIC> for the checking account, i wanted to show one transaction, as it was a single check, for 356.65
22:15:02 <CharlesIC> but then i think i want to "split" it to show 350 income and 6.65 reimbursed shipping
22:15:10 <CharlesIC> the problem is, i keep trying to put it in like that and split it and it doesnt work
22:15:27 <fell> One after the other!
22:15:41 <CharlesIC> ok so i enter the first thing as 356.65, right?
22:15:46 <CharlesIC> and then i tell it to split?
22:15:50 <fell> Can you file a bug report about the missing reference?
22:16:09 <CharlesIC> sure, after i figure this out
22:16:33 <fell> See Reports->Business
22:16:38 <CharlesIC> so, under checking account - chase
22:16:41 <CharlesIC> no im not talking about that
22:16:42 <CharlesIC> please
22:16:50 <CharlesIC> so under checking account - chase
22:16:55 <CharlesIC> i deposited a check for 356.65
22:17:39 <CharlesIC> that was a single deposit. so can i enter that then split it into two portions?
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22:17:47 <CharlesIC> and then assign both to the same invoice?
22:18:05 <fell> This is not related to an invoice?
22:18:32 <CharlesIC> it will be, but this is what im saying
22:18:38 <CharlesIC> im at checking account - BANK NAME
22:18:43 <CharlesIC> and i deposited a check for 356.65
22:18:52 <CharlesIC> so i put that on a single line for 3/6/2018, right?
22:19:22 <CharlesIC> after i do that, how do i break it into two portions so that 350 is assigned as an invoice payment for sales, and 6.65 as an invoice payment for reimbursement?
22:19:35 <fell> If you have an invoice, you should have a singe txn i your bank account and then call apply payment from the context menu.
22:20:26 <CharlesIC> ok, i did that, but then how do i show that i only received 350 income, and the 6.65 was a reimbursement?
22:21:15 <fell> At least my tax office wants the VAT/GST over the full amount.
22:21:49 <fell> But if you do not need to pay that...
22:21:52 <CharlesIC> right
22:22:14 <CharlesIC> im trying to say that i made 350 in income and 6.65 was reimbursement
22:22:22 <CharlesIC> so when i look at sales for taxes, etc, it shows the $350 payment
22:23:07 <fell> bank: 356,65 Payment
22:23:13 <CharlesIC> ok
22:23:20 <CharlesIC> then assign payment to invoice, right?
22:23:27 <fell> Sales: 350
22:23:54 <fell> Then an new nine will appear with the missing 6,65
22:23:57 <fell> Line
22:24:07 <CharlesIC> ok, im confused
22:24:17 <CharlesIC> so on the tab for bank
22:24:27 <CharlesIC> i add the single transaction of 356.65, right?
22:24:41 <CharlesIC> is it transfer assets:acct receiveable?
22:26:02 <CharlesIC> for the bank account, it shows the payment, and assets:accounts receivable and deposit 356.65
22:26:12 <CharlesIC> and it posts to the invoice as a payment of 356.65
22:26:17 <fell> At first you might set something else than single-line in the prefs of Register default
22:26:21 <CharlesIC> so where do i go and separate the 350 from the 6.65?
22:26:54 <CharlesIC> ok, it's on basic
22:26:56 <fell> Then you open your bank account
22:26:59 <CharlesIC> basic ledger
22:27:09 <CharlesIC> do i check double line mode?
22:27:36 <fell> the only view without splits, choose one of the other views
22:27:51 <CharlesIC> sorry, you mean for "Default style" right?
22:27:58 <fell> yep
22:28:35 <CharlesIC> ok, so i will select auto split
22:28:48 <CharlesIC> or is transaction journal better?
22:29:01 <fell> I prefer transcation journal
22:29:11 <CharlesIC> ok, what about other defaults?
22:29:18 <CharlesIC> check any box?
22:29:36 <fell> the autosplit is the compromise between the 2 extreme options.
22:30:13 <CharlesIC> ok
22:30:16 <CharlesIC> ill do autosplit
22:30:18 <CharlesIC> then what?
22:30:27 <fell> Read the tooltips or the page in the help manual
22:30:53 <CharlesIC> this is where i did this before
22:30:55 <fell> then go in your bank register
22:31:00 <CharlesIC> ok
22:31:04 <CharlesIC> so im back in bank account
22:31:16 <CharlesIC> for the transaction, when i hover over, it shows assets: checking account 356.65
22:31:23 <CharlesIC> then assets, account receivables 356.65
22:31:50 <CharlesIC> so which one do i subtract 6.65 from?
22:32:15 <fell> your invoice was only over 350?
22:32:41 <CharlesIC> it looks like i deduct 6.65 from the assets:accounts receivable line
22:33:11 <CharlesIC> but if i do that, the 6.65 payment doesn't show on the invoice :(
22:33:19 <CharlesIC> it only shows the $350 payment
22:33:24 <fell> yes, because your bank account was really incrased be 356,65
22:33:30 <CharlesIC> yes
22:34:01 <CharlesIC> because the invoice only shows the transfer to accounts receivable?
22:34:21 <CharlesIC> yeah, that's what the problem is
22:34:51 <CharlesIC> i think im not supposed to split it at the bank accounts tab
22:34:54 <CharlesIC> im supposed to split it somewhere else?
22:35:20 <fell> If you invoice them, my invoice would show: 350: Goods + 6,65 shipping
22:35:26 <CharlesIC> the issue is i should not be taxed for 356.65
22:35:30 <CharlesIC> i should be taxed 350
22:35:33 <fell> in separate lines
22:35:47 <CharlesIC> maybe im doing assign as payment wrong?
22:36:43 <CharlesIC> yeah, it seems my invoice will only show what was assigned as payment
22:36:54 <CharlesIC> and when a transaction is assigned as payment, it shows as transfer from assets:accounts receivable
22:37:02 <fell> When you declare tax, you will tell them Income: xxx - expense yyy = profit zzz
22:37:59 <CharlesIC> maybe i am doing this wrong, as far as thinking
22:38:03 <fell> Somewhere you might have expense:mail office 6,65 or similar
22:38:08 <CharlesIC> the client always pays me extra to specifically cover shipping
22:38:12 <CharlesIC> the exact amount
22:38:22 <CharlesIC> i usually label it as income:reimbursed expenses
22:38:32 <CharlesIC> it is debited when i pay for shipping, then credited when they reimburse me
22:38:56 <CharlesIC> should the entire thing be assets:accounts receivable
22:39:06 <CharlesIC> and just add the 6.65 to expenses:shipping?
22:39:52 <fell> And in your invoice you assign the 6,65 to eitherincome:reimbursed expenses or its counter account
22:40:22 <CharlesIC> fell, so sthat's the problem
22:40:34 <CharlesIC> if i assign the 6.65 to income:reimbursed expenses
22:40:38 <CharlesIC> it doesn't show up on invoice
22:40:55 <CharlesIC> when i created the invoice, i added a line for shipping to income:reimbursed expenses
22:40:58 <CharlesIC> for 6.65
22:41:32 <fell> right
22:41:33 <CharlesIC> but for the 356.65 payment now, the ONLY way to have it show on the invoice is if you assign it as payment, but if you do that, it shows as assets:accounts receivable
22:41:45 <CharlesIC> so if i split the deposit of 356.65
22:41:52 <CharlesIC> and have 350 go to assets:accounts receivable
22:41:57 <CharlesIC> and 6.65 for income:reimbursed expenses
22:42:02 <CharlesIC> how do i get it to show on the invoice?
22:42:08 <CharlesIC> i cant "assign as payment"
22:42:21 <CharlesIC> only the 350 will show
22:42:35 <fell> If you post your invoice, a txn is created between income and A/R
22:42:52 <CharlesIC> the invoice is posted
22:43:04 <CharlesIC> right now, the amount due is $506.65
22:43:08 <CharlesIC> because it shows the $350 payment
22:43:12 <CharlesIC> but not the 6.65 payment
22:43:17 <CharlesIC> there should be a balance of $500
22:43:19 <CharlesIC> not $506.65
22:43:54 <fell> If you process payment a txn is created between A/R and assets:bank
22:44:15 <CharlesIC> if i "assign as payment" the only account i can select is assets:accounts receivable
22:44:25 <CharlesIC> under "post to"
22:44:49 <fell> Usually over the full amount, so A/R is again 0
22:45:30 <CharlesIC> ok, im still confused
22:45:34 <CharlesIC> so on the "bank account" tab
22:45:39 <CharlesIC> where it shows the deposit of 356.65
22:45:42 <CharlesIC> should i split that or not?
22:46:16 <fell> That is right. Only if you have clients with different currencies , you will create A/R:USD, A/R:EUR, ...
22:47:03 <CharlesIC> ok, so after i have that isngle transaction, what do i do?
22:47:06 <CharlesIC> should i split it?
22:48:01 <fell> If your invoice contains the shipping, you should not split it, just assign it witjh prpcess payment.
22:48:26 <CharlesIC> ok
22:48:35 <fell> But what did you choose, while you posted the invoice?
22:48:37 <CharlesIC> so where do i separate out the 6.65 for reimubrsed expensese?
22:48:44 <CharlesIC> i posted the invoice before the first payment
22:49:25 <CharlesIC> in the posted invoice, it is $2,000 for the work
22:49:30 <fell> There is a by default activated tick box to summarize the invoice while posting.
22:49:37 <CharlesIC> income accont is income:sales
22:49:47 <fell> I would always disable it.
22:49:50 <CharlesIC> and then there's another line with "Shipping"
22:50:01 <CharlesIC> and the income account for that is income:reimbursed expenses"
22:50:08 <fell> THen you will have the details in the right accounts.
22:50:26 <CharlesIC> ok, maybe i should unpost this and post it again
22:50:33 <fell> Yep
22:50:52 <CharlesIC> you mean uncheck "accumulate splits?"
22:51:28 <fell> Warlord, I am wondering, if we should change the default,, because it is confusing new users.
22:51:32 <fell> yes
22:51:51 <CharlesIC> ok, i unchecked it
22:51:54 <CharlesIC> now let me go apply payments again
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22:53:55 <CharlesIC> ok, done
22:54:01 <CharlesIC> now, for the 356.65 payment today
22:54:05 <CharlesIC> what do i do differently?
22:55:07 <CharlesIC> i have the exact same problem
22:55:37 <fell> Set Pref: Transaction journal
22:55:53 <fell> and see in your A/R
22:55:57 <CharlesIC> the 6.65 is not showing up on the invoice for payment
22:56:04 <CharlesIC> only the $350 is
22:56:15 <CharlesIC> because the 6.65 is from account income:reimbursed expenses
22:57:09 <CharlesIC> im in the exact same situation as before
22:57:16 <CharlesIC> i cant get the 6.65 to show as a payment on the invoice
22:58:35 <fell> Can you show me a sceenshot of your invoice after blurring undesired parts?
22:58:53 <CharlesIC> well, the invoice has no reference at all to the 6.65 payment, from easy invoice
22:59:03 <CharlesIC> or are you asking for some diff screen?
23:00:12 <fell> See at https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/bus_ar.html#idm139659403692560
23:00:25 <CharlesIC> hold on, ill show you
23:00:27 <CharlesIC> let me see a place to post the pic
23:01:00 <CharlesIC> https://ibb.co/nvRA07
23:01:05 <CharlesIC> that's from the bank account, right?
23:01:53 <CharlesIC> right now, ONLY the $350 is showing up on the easy invoice
23:02:06 <CharlesIC> not the $6.65
23:02:27 <CharlesIC> do you see what i mean?
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23:03:05 <fell> You have to decide for one of 2 ways:
23:03:58 <CharlesIC> https://imgur.com/a/J5yXh
23:04:02 <CharlesIC> fell, see that?
23:04:02 <CharlesIC> the invoice?
23:04:45 <CharlesIC> see how the 3/6 payment is just for $350?
23:05:17 <fell> The "normal way" is to have the cost of shipping in the invoice and then you should /not/ split the pay txn.
23:05:28 <CharlesIC> ok
23:05:44 <CharlesIC> so the entire 356.65 should be a payment to accounts receivable?
23:05:44 <fell> Yes, you have the shipping in the invoice
23:06:20 <fell> yes, because that is the amount they have to pay to you
23:06:27 <CharlesIC> ok
23:06:38 <CharlesIC> so in the original invoice
23:06:51 <CharlesIC> before posted
23:06:57 <CharlesIC> should i still have had income:accounts receivable for the shipping part?
23:07:03 <CharlesIC> or just put that as an expenses:postage?
23:07:05 <CharlesIC> sorry
23:07:13 <CharlesIC> should i still have had income:reimbursed expenses for the shipping line
23:07:18 <CharlesIC> or just had that as expenses:postage?
23:07:37 <fell> A/R is an asset, no income account
23:08:38 <CharlesIC> https://imgur.com/a/yCv57
23:08:40 <fell> exoense:postage seems fine in your case
23:08:48 <CharlesIC> see how the original invoice was?
23:09:27 <CharlesIC> so that's the problem
23:09:32 <CharlesIC> i ahve to choose an income account. what should it be?
23:12:59 <CharlesIC> fell?
23:13:17 * fell was testing
23:13:36 <CharlesIC> oh ok, sorry
23:13:49 <CharlesIC> i almost always have to pay for shipping for the work i do
23:13:53 <CharlesIC> so i have to list it on the invoice somehow
23:14:01 <CharlesIC> but it seems like income account cannot be expenses:postage
23:16:14 <fell> I don't know you governments rules, but you could create expenses:postage:Reimbursable:(expense) and expenses:postage:Reimbursed (Income)
23:17:08 <CharlesIC> i mean im at a loss here
23:17:14 <CharlesIC> i have to pay shipping, filing fees, etc
23:17:19 <CharlesIC> and i usually add it to the invoice
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23:18:33 <CharlesIC> and i choose for income account, income:reimburseable expenses
23:18:43 <CharlesIC> because on the invoice i have to specify and income account
23:18:52 <fell> More clean yould be expense:reimb... and income:Reimb... and close them manually each month/year
23:19:19 <CharlesIC> ok but the problem is, how do i show when one is paid?
23:19:35 <CharlesIC> so i keep having new additions to income:reimb because it's on all my invoice
23:19:36 <CharlesIC> invoices
23:19:42 <CharlesIC> but when i get paid money, how do i balance it?
23:20:07 <CharlesIC> the payment goes to accounts receivalbe in general
23:20:30 <CharlesIC> or do i just have expenses:reimburse....
23:20:36 <CharlesIC> and add a manual entry each time it's paid back?
23:20:50 <fell> if you look in your A/R, you will see the splits
23:21:25 <CharlesIC> ok, so going back to the checking account 356.65 deposit today
23:21:38 <CharlesIC> i should not split it there, but apply the ENTIRE thing to A/R right?
23:21:47 <fell> Or you look at you customer report, if they paid.
23:22:11 <CharlesIC> fell, ok, i think i sort of understand
23:22:18 <CharlesIC> so for new invoices, i should use income:reimb, right?
23:22:25 <CharlesIC> for shippoing and such, right?
23:22:34 <fell> You can also create a cash flow report, selecting A/R on one side
23:22:36 <CharlesIC> and when i get a deposit to bank account, i apply the ENTIRE thing to the customer for A/R right?
23:22:46 <CharlesIC> wait, please
23:23:06 <fell> yes
23:23:39 <CharlesIC> ok, so i make a new invoice, one line is income:sales 2000
23:23:41 <CharlesIC> $2,000
23:23:51 <CharlesIC> the next line is postage income:reimburseable expenses, $6.65
23:23:52 <CharlesIC> i post the invoice
23:24:26 <CharlesIC> i get a deposit for $356.65 to my checking account, i apply the ENTIRE thing as a payment, making it show up on the invoice
23:24:28 <CharlesIC> without the split
23:24:36 <CharlesIC> then i go to expenses:reimbursed expenses and i put the 6.65?
23:24:46 <CharlesIC> transfered from income:reimbursed expenses?
23:25:31 <fell> That is the closing at the end of the period.
23:26:01 <fell> Not after each invoice.
23:26:21 <CharlesIC> so how do i show when an expense was reimbursed?
23:26:27 <CharlesIC> which particular payment did it?
23:28:32 <fell> After you invoiced them, there is no reason to track the specific 6.65.
23:28:54 <fell> You track the invoice.
23:29:57 <fell> with aging and customer reports
23:31:28 <CharlesIC> im confused
23:31:33 <CharlesIC> just to clarify once more
23:31:41 <fell> If they do not pay the full amount it is not clear which part they didn't pay.
23:31:58 <CharlesIC> i make the invoice, i have two lines, $2,000 for income:sales, $6.65 for income:reimbursed expenses, then i post it, right?
23:32:09 <fell> yep
23:32:39 <CharlesIC> i deposit $356.65 in checking account. i assign it as payment, with the entire 356.65 going to accounts receivable, right?
23:32:55 <fell> yes
23:33:12 <CharlesIC> and then i also create expenses:reimbursed expenses, right?
23:33:43 <fell> Usually you populate it before the shipping.
23:34:07 <CharlesIC> im confused. i put the shipping on the invoice at the very beginning
23:34:19 <CharlesIC> i should have already put something in expenses:reimbursed expenses at that time?
23:34:52 <fell> Oops,
23:35:18 <fell> I was confused reimursed and reimbursabble.
23:35:30 <CharlesIC> ill start over :)
23:35:47 <CharlesIC> 1. i make the invoice, i have two lines, $2,000 for income:sales, $6.65 for income:reimbursable expenses
23:35:56 <CharlesIC> 2. i deposit $356.65 in checking account. i assign it as payment, with the entire 356.65 going to accounts receivable
23:36:04 <CharlesIC> those are both correct?
23:36:30 <fell> yes
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23:36:42 <CharlesIC> ok, so i keep taking payments until the entire invoice is paid
23:36:51 <CharlesIC> at what point do i do anything with expenses:reimbursed expenses?
23:36:54 <CharlesIC> only like once a year?
23:37:33 <fell> only once per period
23:37:42 <CharlesIC> and what exactly do i put in there?
23:38:00 <fell> One is the counter accoount of the other.
23:38:11 <CharlesIC> the problem is, right now, income:reimburseable expenses is way in the red
23:38:48 <CharlesIC> fell, so why dont i do it each time i get a payment to an invoice then? a separate transaction in expenses:reimbursed expenses each time the expense is reimbursed?
23:39:26 <CharlesIC> why wouldn't i add an entry today of 6.65?
23:39:36 <CharlesIC> because i was paid 356.65?
23:39:38 <fell> did you untick while posting?
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23:41:00 <CharlesIC> yes
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23:41:30 <fell> So, what is in your A/R?
23:42:39 <CharlesIC> it says split transaction but it's not really split
23:44:00 <CharlesIC> good grief this is confusing
23:44:23 <fell> Edit->Prefs...Transaction Journal
23:44:28 <CharlesIC> i know that
23:44:32 <CharlesIC> in a/r
23:44:47 <CharlesIC> if its split
23:45:03 <CharlesIC> and the account is income:reimburseable expenses for the 6.65
23:45:10 <CharlesIC> it doesn't show up on the invoice
23:46:09 <CharlesIC> good grief ive wasted so much time on this :/
23:46:10 <fell> Didn't you enter it?
23:46:39 <CharlesIC> if i "assign as payment" the single tx from checking account of 356.65
23:46:48 <CharlesIC> on the A/R it's not split
23:46:57 <CharlesIC> if i then split it in A/R
23:47:16 <CharlesIC> and put the account for 6.65 as income:reimburseable expenses
23:47:28 <CharlesIC> the invoice no longer shows the 6.65 payment
23:48:32 <CharlesIC> i dont think it should be split in A/R
23:49:20 <CharlesIC> ok, back to my original issue...
23:49:41 <CharlesIC> in A/R it now jsut shows a single transaction of 356.65
23:50:01 <CharlesIC> so im asking, why, after this, shouldnt i just go to expenses:reimbursed expenses and put a txn of 6.65?
23:52:54 <CharlesIC> ?????
23:53:21 <CharlesIC> or should i add just generic big transactions for expenses:reimbursed expenses?
23:58:57 <CharlesIC> ...