2017-11-18 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:08:10 <CDB-Away> Sigh
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04:41:25 <mikee_> @op
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06:08:14 <chris> lmat: I'm wondering if gnc_datetime (which imports boost:datetime) would be able to import week_number() which will calculate the iso-8601 week number? I've had to redo the weeknum calculator which was flawed, but I think it'd be better to import boost::datetime's calculator
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06:56:24 <mib_ejx4db> HELLO
06:56:25 <mib_ejx4db> hello
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07:57:09 <gjanssens> .
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08:37:45 <duelle> Hi, I am using Arch Linux and recently get errors with "loading shared libraries: libicui18n.so.59". I assume that something broke with Arch Linux having updated the icu package to v60. Though downgrading to 59 does not work for me.
08:37:45 <gncbot> duelle: Sent 37 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, and 52 minutes ago: <fell> See e.g. http://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_bus_features.html
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09:07:56 <chris> lmat: actually don't worry about iso-8601, not useful.
09:09:16 <chris> what would really help is someone to handhold setting up cmake & Ninja :)
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12:12:52 <jralls> chris: I can't hand-hold right now, will you be around this afternoon?
12:14:20 <jralls> chris: Meanwhile, you closed https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790526, but you don't have push. Is there a PR with your change? It needs to go into maint so it should be separate from your other Transaction Report changes.
12:26:48 <jralls> CDB-Away: "Nearest in time" means that the price in the pricedb dated closest to the report date is used to convert the asset into the report currency. "Most recent" means that the latest price in the pricedb is used. If the report date is after the last price retrieval then they're the same.
12:29:51 <jralls> CDB-Away: In either case there will be unrealized gains and losses and the trial balance report's logic for resolving them is IIRC rudimentary. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that it's unable to deal with multi-step conversions like when you hold a security in a foreign-currency brokerage account.
12:30:33 <jralls> CDB-Away: If there are prices for the security in the report currency as well as in the foreign currency that's sure to mess up the unrealized gain logic.
12:31:29 <CDB-Away> jralls: hmm
12:32:09 <CDB-Man_> I'm verify right now if "nearest in time" and "most recent" give the same output, one moment
12:32:23 <CDB-Man_> but the rest of your comments re: ridimentary logic, make sense
12:34:33 <CDB-Man_> jralls: confirmed, the output is the same, when my report date is today and all my prices are current to today
12:34:59 <jralls> It would be a serious issue if they weren't!
12:35:21 <CDB-Man_> it looks like I'll be out of luck then, if I have more than 1 currency involved. Indeed, I have CAD and USD brokerage accounts listing equities also denominated in both currency
12:35:52 <jralls> chris: Oh, I'm in Z -8 so "this afternoon" to me is "early this morning" to you.
12:36:59 <jralls> CDB-Man_: Well, the thing to do is to prove to yourself that that's what's going on. How many open positions are we talking about?
12:38:16 <CDB-Man_> jralls: 27
12:38:57 <CDB-Man_> along with at least 20 more non-equity accounts also denominated not in report currency
12:39:14 <CDB-Man_> report currency = CAD, I have about 20 USD accounts for various USD activities
12:39:26 <CDB-Man_> along with 27 equities, of which ~1/2 are USD equities
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12:41:25 <jralls> Seems a bit excessive. By "non-equity" I trust you mean "denominated in a currency rather than a tradable security". They're all Asset accounts, yes?
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12:42:12 <jralls> Anyway, how many securities do you price in both CAD and USD?
12:43:28 <CDB-Man> 8[12:41:08] @jralls: Seems a bit excessive. By "non-equity" I trust you mean "denominated in a currency rather than a tradable security". They're all Asset accounts, yes? <-- correct. I have asset, liability, equity, revenue, and expense accounts, in USD.
12:43:41 <CDB-Man> all my dual priced currencies, each have their own security
12:44:10 <CDB-Man> for example, RY.TO for royal bank of canada on the toronto stock exchange, and RY for royal bank on NYSE
12:44:38 <CDB-Man> there's no currency cross within any specific security... but USD securities may be a child account of a CAD holding account
12:44:41 <CDB-Man> and vise versa
12:45:15 <CDB-Man> my structure is this: broker account > CAD and USD placeholder accounts > various securities and cash under each placeholder
12:45:25 <CDB-Man> the top level broker account entry can be either CAD or USD
12:46:16 <CDB-Man> dividends paid go to a dividend income account, and the dividend income account is split into 4 child accounts: CAD, USD, CAD nontaxable, USD nontaxable (think your Roth IRAs)
12:47:33 <jralls> CDB-Man: Ah, that's likely the problem. You need a currency placeholder account of the right currency to be the immediate parent of the securities priced in that currency. So for the CAD brokerage account you need a USD subaccount to hold the USD stocks.
12:47:46 <jralls> Otherwise GnuCash thinks that the prices are in CAD.
12:48:03 <jralls> Same in reverse for the USD brokerage account.
12:48:43 <CDB-Man> jralls: that's already being done
12:49:02 <CDB-Man> account XXX > CAD placeholder > CAD equities
12:49:08 <CDB-Man> account XXX > USD placeholder > USD equities
12:49:16 <CDB-Man> account XXX > USD placeholder > CAD equities <-- this combination does not exist
12:49:22 <CDB-Man> same with the inverse
12:49:32 <CDB-Man> account XXX at the top is generally CAD
12:49:55 <jralls> Sorry, I misunderstood your "my structure is this" line.
12:51:00 <CDB-Man> no worries, I realized that I had poorly explained it after the fact, when I saw the confusion. my fault here!
12:51:23 <CDB-Man> I'll note that the BS report does not have any issue
12:51:47 <CDB-Man> is the "trading gains" number calculated on a positive basis, or is it simply a plug to make it balance?
12:52:01 <CDB-Man> if it's explicitly calculated, perhaps some logic can be borrowed
12:52:03 <jralls> Right, because the balance sheet looks only at book value.
12:52:18 <CDB-Man> well....
12:53:24 <CDB-Man> 8[12:51:46] @jralls: Right, because the balance sheet looks only at book value. <--- are you sure about this? about to check it myself
12:55:10 <CDB-Man> I forced the BS to display all children levels so that I could inpsect each equity. definitely, the equities are showing FMV, not book value
12:57:07 <jralls> Hmm, I see that too.
12:57:51 <CDB-Man> hmm... if the individual accounts already reflect paper gains, I'm not sure what's held in the trading gains value, then
12:58:02 <CDB-Man> checking the foreign currency accounts
12:59:14 <CDB-Man> > 85 MSFT $8,942.29
13:00:18 <CDB-Man> $82.40 * 85 = $7004 USD, so it looks like the BS report is doing the proper CAD conversion
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13:02:02 <jralls> And the TB report?
13:02:16 <CDB-Man> checking...
13:02:59 <CDB-Man> MSFT
13:03:00 <CDB-Man> 85 MSFT $8,942.29
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13:04:02 <CDB-Man> TB shows this: Unrealized Gains $23,449.42
13:04:06 <CDB-Man> BS shows this: Trading Gains $16,026.51
13:04:14 <CDB-Man> I would have expected them to be the same?
13:04:58 <CDB-Man> that and, given that we discovered both show the unrealized paper gains within each account, with currency factored in, I'm not sure what exactly is being calculated ni the "trading gains" value
13:08:40 <jralls> Hmm. The Balance Sheet doesn't calculate unrealized gains in the presence of trading reports: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/master/gnucash/report/standard-reports/balance-sheet.scm#L306
13:09:09 <CDB-Man> hmm.... the retained earnings amount matches my IS, and the IS properly converts to CAD, so "trading gains" is not the X plug for my net income
13:09:44 <CDB-Man> jralls: hmm, except, it seems that all my assets have the FMVs bein reported?
13:09:46 <jralls> The TB includes trading accounts in the account filter but otherwise ignores them.
13:10:00 <CDB-Man> being*
13:11:01 <CDB-Man> 7[13:09:27] CDB-Man: jralls: hmm, except, it seems that all my assets have the FMVs bein reported? <-- in my BS. in reference to the MSFT example
13:11:20 <jralls> IS == "Profit and Loss Report"?
13:11:20 <CDB-Man> 85.40 USD is the market closing price as of yesterday. my basis is closer to $56 USD
13:12:04 <CDB-Man> negative. IS is the "income statement" report
13:12:21 <CDB-Man> 4th from the bottom
13:12:30 <CDB-Man> P&L being 2nd from bottom
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13:13:03 <CDB-Man> I close my books every year, into my own RE accounts (one of CAD and one for USD)
13:13:19 <CDB-Man> so the computed RE account on the BS report will always tie to net income on my IS
13:13:58 <jralls> Do you mark-to-market for your book close?
13:14:18 <CDB-Man> I don't close the MTM paper gains
13:14:39 <CDB-Man> only realized gains and other income, actually recorded on the IS
13:14:49 <CDB-Man> my close ties 100% to the IS
13:15:02 <jralls> OK.
13:15:14 <CDB-Man> for clarity, my equity account looks like this:
13:15:26 <CDB-Man> retained earnings > CAD
13:15:29 <CDB-Man> retained earnings > USD
13:15:55 <CDB-Man> CAD income and expenses are closed into CAD RE only, and same for USD
13:16:38 <CDB-Man> parent RE account is CAD
13:17:17 <CDB-Man> more or less, all my accounts always have a transparent layer between the parent and child accounts, where the layer is a CAD and USD placeholder
13:17:38 <jralls> Right. The imbalance is going to be due to something in unrealized gains. BS doesn't calc Unrealized Gains in the presence of trading accounts, it tots up the balances of the trading accounts instead assuming that that will be the same.
13:18:00 <CDB-Man> hmm, so to re-state what you just said:
13:18:24 <CDB-Man> the "trading gains" value computed by BS, is the net sum of all trading accounts, converted to report currency?
13:19:21 <CDB-Man> this makes sense then. since the BS displays all assets with MTM gain/loss included, it would need the net sum of the trading accounts to balance, as the IS does not have MTM gains contained
13:19:30 <CDB-Man> all that's needed is for the TB to use similar logic
13:19:36 <jralls> Yes. At least I hope it's converted to the account currency, I don't see that in the bit of the code that I'm looking at.
13:20:53 <CDB-Away> You mean report currency, rather?
13:21:04 <jralls> Yes, sorry.
13:21:32 <CDB-Away> Hmm, this brings up an interesting thought
13:21:49 <CDB-Man> 7[13:03:45] CDB-Man: TB shows this: Unrealized Gains $23,449.42
13:21:50 <CDB-Man> 7[13:03:48] CDB-Man: BS shows this: Trading Gains $16,026.51
13:22:17 <CDB-Man> the computer RE per the BS is: Retained Earnings $17,062.67
13:22:29 <CDB-Man> the TB amount is not the sum-total of the 2 BS amounts
13:26:41 <CDB-Away> Hmm, in reference to your earlier link, it makes sense that the BS does not explicitly calculate trading gains, since a properly handled trading account should account for it all
13:27:10 <jralls> Looked at the history. Mike Alexander implemented the trading accounts stuff in b578c56 8 years ago. He fixed the BS report but not the TB report to work with them.
13:27:59 <CDB-Away> There's the "aha!" Moment :)
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13:28:16 <jralls> That hasn't changed. Transplanting the BS code to the TB would be a good start, but since the reports are a bit different some tweaking would be required.
13:29:37 <CDB-Away> Hmm. The reports are substantively similar. The only real difference is that TB displays income statement amounts, whereas the BS groups it into the one retained earnings line
13:29:53 <CDB-Away> That and, TB is single account depth
13:38:05 <jralls> The TB only looks single-depth because at the default "level of sub accounts" of 1 it doesn't indent anything. The subaccounts are all there, at least when I run it.
13:38:12 <CDB-Away> (for display purposes that is)
13:38:45 <CDB-Away> Yeah, I should have clarified I meant for display purposes
13:38:55 <CDB-Away> And not for actual calculation purposes
13:40:28 <CDB-Away> (and by display purposes, I mean the presentation lacking indentation, and not that sub accounts are missing)
13:41:22 <jralls> Ah, we are seeing the same thing, then. I don't think that's what the option is supposed to do.
13:42:39 <jralls> Anyway, it's time for me to go for a bike ride. Would you like to file a bug about the TB not understanding trading accounts?
13:42:50 <jralls> Back in a couple of hours.
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13:47:51 <CDB-Away> jralls_afk: indeed, I can do that after lunch
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15:21:56 <alan> gnucash supports standing orders, can it support sweeper accounts? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweep_account
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15:32:15 <CDB-Man> jralls_afk: done, bug# 790547
15:34:23 <CDB-Man> alan: not that i'm aware of, you'd have to mess with the preauthorized transactions mechanic as youve already done with standing orders. not sure if you can create one with a non-static sweep amount. perhaps the others on the channel can comment
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15:41:33 <codesmythe> chris: I can help with CMake / ninja. What's your question?
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15:56:19 <codesmythe> jralls: What do you think is left to do on the CMake side so that we drop autotools?
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16:07:19 <jralls> codesmythe: My only pain point is that a multi-core build still fails occasionally, but that's not really an obstacle to removing autotools.
16:11:44 <codesmythe> jralls: ok. I should have some time over the next few days to do a real fix for that.
16:12:03 <jralls> Super!
16:12:39 <jralls> We should get some feedback from gjanssens as well before we do anything drastic.
16:14:11 <codesmythe> Sure. He also filed a bug about how disabling optional featues leads to broken dist tarballs that I need to look into.
16:23:25 <codesmythe> jralls: I'm also trying get a clean Mac build of unstable. In the current .jhbuildrc-custom, building the modules line for gnucash-git also does meta-gtk-osx-core. Should that be meta-gtk-osx-gtk3?
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16:26:45 <jralls> codesmythe: Yes, and also replace meta-gnucash-stable with gnucash-unstable.
16:28:27 <codesmythe> ok. thanks.
16:30:09 <chris> jralls/codesmythe - I've hacked a 'nightly.sh' to build from unstable, but haven't succeeded in running CMake/Ninja on my multicore. I'll keep disclosing I haven't hacked on anything large & well-known until now. My scripts - http://imgur.com/RPwE5abl.png - can't make Ninja work - I have stock Ubuntu and enough dependencies to succeed compile
16:31:48 <chris> jralls - pushed #232 - however I haven't been able to build from maint to test thoroughly - however my REPL calulators seem to indicate the formula is right equivalent for caldate > 0
16:33:14 <jralls> chris: You should be able to build maint with just 'apt-get build-deps gnucash', then checkout gnucash, configure, and make.
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16:38:12 <jralls> chris: unstable requires libboost-all-dev, libicu-dev, and googletest. The last is actually best just pulled from github.
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18:06:33 <stefano_> First of all, I love the program, and I used everyday for my SME, but when I am out of office and need look for a client information my android app doesn't give me this information. Is there a solution for it, or are you thinking on improving the interaction between the CPU app and the Android app? Thank for your answer
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18:33:53 <jralls> stefano_: The Android app is separately maintained and we don't know what the developer's plans are.
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