2017-10-30 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:10:40 <OutcastShadow> A friend of mine is wanting to know if Gnucash supports reports for non-profit organizations. I sent her a link to the site but beyond that I'm not sure what to look at/for. Any salient details that I should point her towards?
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03:52:39 <Simon> rietta: pay them in separately and/or ask the bank to separate them?
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05:07:33 <gjanssens> .
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08:41:05 <OutcastShadow> A friend of mine is wanting to know if Gnucash supports reports for non-profit organizations. I sent her a link to the site but beyond that I'm not sure what to look at/for. Any salient details that I should point her towards?
08:46:48 <warlord> OutcastShadow: It depends what reports, but if you read the gnucash-user archives you'll see that generally it's better to take the standard reports from gnucash and the copy-paste into Word (LibreOffice) to generate your NPO-specific report
08:49:18 <OutcastShadow> Warlord: Thank you. I will pass that recommendation to her. I use gnucash for my personal & small biz finance and have no experience w/NPOs.
08:51:08 <OutcastShadow> She asked me the question last night and didn't really even really know where to begin looking.
08:53:06 <warlord> There are several people on the gnucash-user list who do accounting for NPOs, so great resources.
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09:07:23 <miqrogroove> What's the best way to draw attention to a bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=730764
09:07:55 <miqrogroove> As a Windows user I find this very frustrating, to the point where I would consider getting a separate computer to run GnuCash.
09:07:58 <warlord> miqrogroove: send in a patch to fix it?
09:08:34 <miqrogroove> I'm afraid I lack the expertise for this project. I wish I could do it for y'all.
09:09:09 <warlord> Beyond that, it will require one of the devs to find the time to track it down.
09:09:25 <warlord> It wont get lost, but it might not get priority.
09:10:08 <miqrogroove> fwiw, I'd put $20 toward some traction on that.
09:11:12 <warlord> You can see if it's listed on UserVoice
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09:22:54 <miqrogroove> Added now on UserVoice.
09:30:07 <warlord> ok
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10:01:10 <miqrogroove> "An idea you supported has been closed. Thank you for your feedback."
10:01:25 <miqrogroove> So that didn't work at all.
10:02:57 <warlord> Huh?
10:03:01 <warlord> I wonder who closed it.
10:03:50 <miqrogroove> John Ralls (Admin, GnuCash)
10:04:08 <warlord> Ah, jralls ... Maybe he can pipe up here about it.
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10:21:20 <miqrogroove> Well, looks like I've done what I can here. Back to Excel for budgeting in the meantime.
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11:14:10 <jralls> @tell miqrogroove I closed your Uservoice item because it simply duplicated a bug report.
11:14:10 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
11:17:49 <jralls> chris: re your transaction report PR: Yes, by all means. The report system has been neglected for years and is as much in need of cruft reduction, refactoring, and unit testing as the rest of GnuCash.
11:22:59 <jralls> lmat: You have the slots schema inverted: obj_guid is the foreign key. For slots that are directly linked to primary objects (i.e. Account, Split, etc.) it's a proper foreign key. For KVP frames the primary key is the integer id and the guid_val is what the child's obj_guid gets joined to.
11:26:04 <jralls> lmat: The main problem with the design is that guid_val isn't a primary key so it's immune to DB-enforced referential integrity.
11:27:42 <lmat> jralls: Ah, I see. I was thinking that obj_guid was the GUID for that particular kvp value. It's actually a foreign key, pointing to the owning object. That mkes much more sense.
11:28:05 <jralls> lmat: But for top-down filling of a KVP hierarchy it's not terrible: Read the frame's guid_val and retrieve all of the children that have it as the obj_guid value.
11:28:17 <lmat> jralls: Yes, this seems workable.
11:29:25 <lmat> jralls: The removing of delimiters is going better than I thought it would.
11:31:08 <jralls> warlord: I'm not interested in financial rewards for fixing bugs. I won't speak for the others but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of any current regular contributor being interested either.
11:32:35 <jralls> warlord: As for the budget system, I don't think any current contributor uses it at all. The constant complaints on the user list suggest that it's a steaming pile and needs to be rewritten.
11:34:42 <jralls> warlord: Please don't encourage people to duplicate bugs onto Uservoice... or anywhere else, for that matter. We have enough trouble keeping track of what needs to be done.
11:37:53 <warlord> jralls: I did not intend for him to duplicate the bug report; I suggested he check if there was something on UserVoice about the issue. Does BZ allow for "voting"?
11:38:03 <warlord> (and FTR cstim has done work-for-hire)
11:38:22 <jralls> warlord: FTR?
11:38:44 <warlord> For The Record
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11:40:22 <jralls> But the last time someone offered a work-for-hire job and I passed it on to cstim he said he didn't have time for it; besides, he's no longer a regular contributor.
11:41:37 <jralls> I think BZ code allows for voting but Gnome's version is either not new enough or has it turned off. So for our purposes, no.
11:46:32 <jralls> Uservoice has voting of a sort in that users can add endorsements. cstim's original intent for UV was to conduct a poll of sorts for a bounty program. It failed miserably: No bounties were paid and no work was done as a result. We've tried to limit it to enhancement requests, and Ngewi has been using the "tickets" feature for GfA; I guess he finds it less useless than Github's issue tracker.
11:48:00 <jralls> Actually ISTR one bounty was paid, to cstim, doubling the failure: The idea of the bounties was to attract new developers. Instead cstim quit shortly after.
11:48:35 <warlord> Okay, I'll refrain from suggesting UV
12:10:02 <jralls> gjanssens, warlord: New subject, we've had an X11 error handler in gnc-gnome-utils.c (originally in gnome/top-level.c) since 2001. Can you think of any reason why it's needed? Note that gdk/x11/gdkmain-xll.c sets its own X11 error handler.
12:14:58 <warlord> What does this error handler do?
12:15:10 * warlord doesn't recall why it was installed
12:16:59 <jralls> Logs the error with g_warning. Had you joined the project in 2001? I thought you came a couple of years later...
12:18:25 <warlord> Yes, I had. I joined around 97/98
12:18:46 <warlord> 2001 is when I became very active.
12:18:51 <warlord> But I had been around before.
12:19:29 <warlord> I subscribed to -devel on 24 Sep 1999
12:20:39 <warlord> I don't know when I subscribed to -user. The first message in that folder is from 2003, but it's a reply to me -- I'm sure I was subscribed well before but probably wasn't filing it the same way.
12:21:19 <warlord> I know I was using 1.4, and compiling it for motif
12:21:36 <warlord> This was before the migration to gtk.
12:22:05 <warlord> (or maybe I'm misremembering and it was 1.2 that was motif and 1.4 was gtk1)
12:23:12 <jralls> OK. Anyway, the Gdk handler also logs a warning unless G_ENABLE_DEBUG is set, where it will log an error...and when G_ENABLE_DEBUG is set, logging an error asserts.
12:24:20 <jralls> So I think the solution to the immediate problem of https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789608 is to simply remove the code and rely on Gdk to take care of X11.
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12:25:32 <jralls> It looks from the original commit note that Josh Sled for some reason wanted a different handler from Gdk's.
12:27:31 <warlord> It could be that the gdk default handler at the time was asserting?
12:33:08 <jralls> And X11 errors was a problem he didn't want to deal with? It might have been that gtk was overly buggy in those days and X11 errors were common.
12:39:56 <jralls> Heh, the gtk-1-2 handler didn't log the error unless G_ENABLE_DEBUG was set, it wrote it out to stderr.
12:45:30 <jralls> Which it still did in gtk+-2.0.
12:48:11 <gjanssens> jralls: I have no idea why it's there and I'm all in favor of removing it if at all possible.
12:48:40 <gjanssens> We should avoid any direct dependency on X11 if at all possible
12:49:10 <gjanssens> If only because most linux DE's are trying to migrate to Wayland these days.
12:50:01 <gjanssens> At some point X11 will be removed (still in a distant future atm), but I don't want to be caught in the last minute as we were with libwebkitgtk
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12:57:27 <jralls> gjanssens: Another good reason. Yes, let's just get rid of it.
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12:58:56 <jralls> BTW, the printf->g_warning change didn't happen until 2010, probably long after everyone here forgot that gnc_x_error even existed.
12:59:39 <jralls> And of course noone pays close attention to what the Gtk folks do anyway, so it wouldn't have been noticed.
13:00:46 <lmat> Do we want to get the OpenSuSE fella to submit a docker plan for CI?
13:09:45 <jralls> lmat: Not until he can successfully build GnuCash. It looks from the dumps on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789608 to be more than -lx11.
13:10:29 <lmat> "looks like you're not using a capable compiler." He's using gcc 7.1?
13:11:00 <lmat> oh, no, 7.2.1. I'm only on 7.2.0...
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13:12:38 <jralls> lmat: I didn't see that in the dumps.
13:12:46 <lmat> https://bug789608.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=362471
13:12:55 <jralls> GTG, back in a few hours.
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14:00:05 <finster> hello all. when opening the booking entry menu (Cmd+t on OSX), is there a way to quickly search source/destination accounts. goal would be to control the booking process as much as possible via the keyboard.
14:00:23 <finster> gnucash 2.6.18 (osx, intel)
14:01:32 <finster> at least it would be nice to be able to collapse/uncollapse the account hierarchy via cursor keys
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14:15:10 <lmat> finster: I'm not sure what the booking menu is.
14:16:04 <finster> lmat: actions / account (Cmd + t or Ctrl + t per default)
14:25:15 <warlord> finster: the register is easier, because you can use keyboard shortcuts. I don't know if there is a way to do that from the transfer dialog.
14:26:22 <finster> warlord: okay, thanks!
14:27:06 <finster> i think i'll use the registers then with full accounts view
14:31:27 <warlord> That's fine. But in the register you could type: e x : g r for Expenses:Groceries
14:36:40 <finster> oh, neat!
14:37:01 <finster> that's wonderful. thanks again!
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14:54:55 <rietta> It just occured to me that I could create a Check Deposits Account to run the business payments into and then do the reconcile transaction as a transfer from that account into the bank…
14:56:25 <rietta> That’s probably what the depsoit checks in quicken does (I’ve never used it though in that)
15:12:01 <lmat> rietta: Ah, I wouldn't have thought of that.
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15:35:46 <rietta> lmat, yeah it seems so obvious now. The checks are “deposited” into an envelope and then carried to the bank where the envelope is deposited. Easy to check errors because it should always balance to zero.
15:36:50 <rietta> I can just key my invoices in from Harvest and go from there (eventually I’ll write an importer for that)
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20:14:40 <paulrf> Evening all. New GnuCash install (also new operator). I imported a ofx file to Checking... I had a page where I changed the accounts (expense etc)... then when I accepted, the register was blank. Now when I try to import, none of the transactions are listed. What am I missing?
20:15:05 <paulrf> I know that's a tad confusing
20:15:38 <paulrf> Verified that there is data in the qfx file
20:20:11 <paulrf> Hmmm if I look at accounts, data is loaded there. Just nothing in Checking
20:24:08 <paulrf> Okay - finally found in Imbalance USD
20:24:49 <rietta> Yeah, so the OFX importer is weird. You have to set the income/expense accounts at import or go through the inbalance thing.
20:25:27 <rietta> (I’m moderately along in my GnuCash conversion). Excited to fire Xero. Shouldn’t have left GnuCash in 2007 like I did.
20:26:06 <rietta> Getting the books caught up from Jan 1 for a reasonably busy consulting practice I own sucks.
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20:36:13 <paulrf> Yeah I'm really looking forward to getting this going.
20:36:50 <paulrf> yeah I definitely missed one side of the equation... 'will take some time to get used to it
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21:08:03 <paulrf> Thanks for your help rietta - have a nice night...
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