2017-09-20 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:39:02 <gjanssens> .
02:39:02 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 9 hours and 26 minutes ago: <jralls> On Windows GnuCash 2.7.0 runs from the mingw32 shell, so it's probably something missing from the bundle.
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12:21:22 <Juser123> greetings! I'm trying to figure out the best way to import credit card transactions from my bank and have them show up related to the correct expense categories. I'm hesitant to hit import as it looks like each transaction basically posts to the credit card liability account without linkage back to the expense category. I understand that it's a liability until I pay it, and shouldn't be recorded in both the expense and
12:21:22 <Juser123> liability accounts initially. sorry, I'm missing something basic here. thanks for the help and advice in advance!
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13:31:10 <gjanssens> Juser123: the expenses should be transactions between an expense account and your credit card liability account. The *are* expenses, which you haven't paid for yet, so they transfer to a liability account.
13:32:36 <Juser123> gjanssens: ahh. so I'm ok then. :) thanks. I'll give the import a swing and see what happens.
13:32:41 <gjanssens> Juser123: you can and should adjust the proposed transactions
13:33:01 <gjanssens> They should be correct before you hit import or you will train the bayesian matcher incorrectly
13:33:38 <Juser123> got it. makes sense. thanks
13:33:46 <gjanssens> you're welcome
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14:35:50 <Shapeless> Good evenng.
14:44:08 <Shapeless> I got a question concerning booking taxes. I got various accounts for expenses each with different tax-percentages. How can I book those percentages to tax accounts? Do I have to do those manually?
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15:06:27 <frakturfreak> Yes you have to calculate and book the taxes manually, unless you want to go the route of the business module and setting up tax tables and vendor account and invoices.
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15:08:01 <frakturfreak> Alas my bug about not being able to attach documents to invoices from the business module still persits and gnucash is missing a way of using tax tables in normal transactions as an extra column in the input mask
15:10:24 <frakturfreak> Shapeless: Also I would suggest setting up tax accounts for input and output tax for each rate there is.
15:11:36 <frakturfreak> The nice thing about gnucash however is that can do simpe maths with multiplication so gross value/1.19*0.19 should give you the standard German VAT amount.
15:13:31 <Shapeless> Thanks. I will have to book the tax manually - booking via the buisness module seems overly complicated to me.
15:15:02 <frakturfreak> It’s not that complicated it just makes more sense for greater accounts and vendors
15:16:07 <frakturfreak> However if you’re just doing a simple cash based system, it might be a bit to much.
15:18:39 <frakturfreak> And remember to account the intra european community stuff the right way, § 13b UStG is a nice paragraph.
15:33:08 <Shapeless> I am doing the bookkeeping for a small association. It got a lot more complicated but doing it via the buisness module seems overkill.
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15:37:53 <Shapeless> Thanks for the help
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16:02:05 <marusich> If I create Asset accounts to track money owed to me (e.g., for expenses that my employer will reimburse to me, or money that my friends owe me for a drink at the bar), is the correct account category "Asset" or "A/Receivable"? This is just for personal accounting, not a business.
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16:19:26 <frakturfreak> A/R
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16:23:04 <marusich> frakturfreak, isn't A/Receivable a special account category used internally for things like the invoice system? Why is it correct for me to manually create an account of this type, instad of an Asset type?
16:24:18 <frakturfreak> There’s nothing preventing you from using A/R outside of the scope of the business module
16:24:25 <marusich> I was under the impression that GnuCash did not want me to manually create A/R and A/P accounts on my own.
16:25:05 <frakturfreak> You’ll have to create them anyway if you’d setting up a business module and they behave like any other account
16:25:12 <frakturfreak> so you can do normal transactions on them
16:26:10 <marusich> Is there any risk of me messing up GnuCash's reports/calculations if I manually create and manage my own A/R or A/P accounts without using the business features like invoicing?
16:26:11 <frakturfreak> you could go the route of assets but those I would use on a much more general scale and for long term assets, not for such short term loans
16:27:31 <frakturfreak> I don’t know about reports about open and paid invoices, because the account might not match the actual invoices
16:27:35 <marusich> I am concerned that perhaps if one day I decide to make an invoice using the invoic system in GnuCash, it "won't work right" because long ago I mucked around in my manually-craeted A/R accounts.
16:27:47 <marusich> OK.
16:27:49 <frakturfreak> You could also fake your situation with virtual cash/bank accounts
16:28:20 <frakturfreak> divide your sub accounts accordingly
16:28:21 <marusich> What is the benefit of making an "owed by my friend bob" account an A/R account instead of just an Asset account? What do I get by making it an A/R type account, that I would not get if I made it an Asset account?
16:29:34 <marusich> My current understanding is that the only benefit would be that the account type uses words which more accurately describe its intended function. Is there anything else?
16:31:07 <marusich> On top of that, it sounds like if I make it an A/R account and then manually create transactions involving it, I might possibly wind up messing up the invoicing system if later on I decide I do want to use GnuCash to manage invoices.
16:31:16 <frakturfreak> That’s the answer. Asset is to general and I would personally only use it form long term assets and as head accounts in a tree.
16:31:46 <frakturfreak> marusich: That’s why I said to set-up your account tree accordingly.
16:32:10 <marusich> Well, right now, my structure would be: Assets:Current Assets:Owed by Friends:Bob
16:32:19 <marusich> And that would be an Asset account...not an A/R account.
16:33:01 <marusich> I figured, that mirrors the "Asssets:Current Assets:Reimbursible Expense" account (an Asset account) which the GnuCash tutorial recommended for expenses that my employer will reimburse.
16:33:28 <marusich> What do you think of that?
16:34:46 <frakturfreak> hm that sound reasonable.
16:35:05 <marusich> The main reason I'm averse to using A/R is only because I don't want to accidentally mess up the invoicing system if later on I decide to use it.
16:35:08 <frakturfreak> Leave it under assets. I just had little thought about it.
16:35:27 <marusich> I agree that, to me, these asset accounts are essentially accounts receivable.
16:36:11 <marusich> If GnuCash had an asset account like "Personal Loan to Friend", then I'd use that... :) But the tutorials seem to suggest using a straight-up Asset account for that sort of thing.
16:36:31 <frakturfreak> I really dislike gnucash being so us philosophy based in not distiguishing between, long term and current assets as account categories.
16:36:52 <marusich> Well. I suppose their intent is that you will create your own classification within Asset accounts for those things.
16:36:59 <frakturfreak> if there was current assets as account type, all would be fine for me
16:37:18 <frakturfreak> marusich: Which I have.
16:37:24 <marusich> I'm still learning about GnuCash and double entry accounting, so I'm fine with bending to fit the mold of GnuCash.
16:37:28 <marusich> I also have one; it seems fine to me.
16:37:46 <marusich> Thank you for your thoughts; I appreciate the second opinion.
16:42:05 <frakturfreak> Is there technical term in English for this type of account, expenses made in the name and for another person (and some crap transactions you don’t quite, know at least that’s what common pratice in German for this type of account, allthough it should be used for aforementioned transactions, based on a section of the VAT law) „Durchlaufende Posten“?
16:43:35 <marusich> If you expect to collect the full amount of the expense from that other person, I imagine you would call that type of account a "Reimbursible Expense" account, or perhaps a "receivable" account?
16:44:09 <marusich> When I buy things on behalf of my employer using my own money, I record the transaction in Assets:Current Assets:Reimbursible Expense
16:44:19 <marusich> Which is what the tutorial suggests doing.
16:44:43 <marusich> As mentioned earlier, the type of that account is an "Asset" account.
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16:51:26 <chf> Well "Durchlaufende Posten" normally works the other way around: you receive money for another person/organisation and give it away afterwards; "reimbursable" means "payment in advance".
16:51:28 <frakturfreak> Well I might dig into the VAT directive, as the legislation.gov.uk is the horror, (I don’t need 100 changes made to the law on each subsection before displaying the actual text of the law).
16:51:34 <frakturfreak> Good night
16:53:08 <frakturfreak> chf: In the end it should be zero anyway.
16:54:56 <chf> Yes; but you cannot logically use a "(very) short term loan" type account for sums where you receive the loan rather than give it to somebody.
16:54:56 <marusich> chf, oh, then that's something like an "advance" (as in "travel advance")
16:55:13 <frakturfreak> However there’s no legal requirement of getting the money first. § 10 (6) UStG just talks about the money paid/collected in the name of another person
16:55:19 <marusich> There is a section in the tutorial which describes an example use case of receiving money to spend in a "Travel Advance" account from your employer.
16:55:56 <marusich> See GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide » Managing Business Finances » Current Assets for the example.
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16:59:24 <chf> Normal in german non-profit organisations: Org. A cannot grant tax-exemptions for donations, but has a project which is generally tax-exempt. So they ask Org. B which has the status of "law personality" as a non-profit organisation to collect donations for the project, which are then tax-deductible for donors.
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17:01:13 <chf> This is legal, as long as Org. B makes sure that the project uses the money only for things which are in line with the rules defined in Org. B's statutes.
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18:50:11 <marusich> Do any reports of GnuCash ignore non-reconciled transactions, or treat transactions differently depending on whether they are cleared, reconciled, or neither?
18:51:09 <marusich> I am wondering how GnuCash's reports (e.g., for expense) would look if I record an expense in January for which I wrote a check, but that transaction doesn't get reconciled until March statement comes (because whoever received the check took a long time to deposit it).
18:51:46 <marusich> I suppose the quickest thing to do is to just try it out a bit in a simple book.
19:00:37 <marusich> And the answer seems to be that reports (at least, the income statement, which I checked just now...) ignore reconciliation status; they include transactions that are reconciled, as well as transactions that are not reconciled.
19:00:57 <marusich> Good to know.
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