2017-08-08 GnuCash IRC logs

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06:15:40 <sko22> helo
06:16:27 <sko22> can someone help me with manage bitcoin with gnucash?
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07:47:04 <warlord> dryad: if you split it up you cannot run reports across years.
07:47:27 <warlord> I've got single files going back ~10 years.
07:48:08 <warlord> What I used to do was make a backup copy of my files every year so I could go back and look at the state at a particular year, but I realized there was, generally, no point of that becuase I can always go back and re-run a report for a previous year.
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11:43:24 <dryad> warlord: thanks, that makes sense
11:43:58 <dryad> one problem i'm running in to with a single file, though, is that because of my negligence, i'm missing some records
11:45:18 <dryad> so i'm not sure how to zero out some accounts that should be zeroed out
11:45:50 <dryad> and what to do about reconciling periods for which i have only partial records for
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11:46:29 <dryad> if divided my records in to separate files, then i could "start fresh" as it were, at least for the most recent period for which i have complete records for
11:46:46 <dryad> and then hopefully everything would go ok as long as i kept complete records
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13:08:57 <warlord> dryad: you could insert a balancing transaction to cover the "missing" data
13:10:12 <dryad> hmm.. true
13:15:06 <warlord> If you know you'll never find/add it, then do that and "reconcile" that..
13:15:57 <dryad> i might find it, though
13:17:10 <warlord> Worst case if you find it then you can delete the balancing transaction (putting the reconciliation out of balance), add the data, and then re-reconcile to the last reconcile date/balance again.
13:17:23 <warlord> Or if you find it again you could just ignore it.
13:27:42 <dryad> if i find a record for a transaction i reconciled 3 years ago, i'd have to either ignore it or re-reconcile 3 years worth of transactions :(
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13:48:15 <warlord> dryad: no, you just re-adjust the balance to cover the one you found and then just re-run the *last* reconcile you did (i.e. redo the CURRENT month), and then check off the adjusted balance and "new" old transaction. Poof. Done.
13:52:40 <dryad> ah, i see
13:52:43 <dryad> interesting
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13:57:27 <CharlesIC> hello
13:57:57 <CharlesIC> hello
13:58:02 <CharlesIC> im trying to connect with ofx for a 360 account
13:59:02 <CharlesIC> 12:58:48 Waiting for response...
13:59:03 <CharlesIC> 12:58:49 No message received
13:59:03 <CharlesIC> 12:58:49 Network error while waiting for response
13:59:03 <CharlesIC> 12:58:49 Operation finished, you can now close this window.
13:59:08 <CharlesIC> i get that when trying to retrieve account list
14:04:30 <CharlesIC> it seems gnucash has some online banking issues with various sites, like capitalone, etc
14:04:42 <CharlesIC> my question is, can it connect to a third party site which is set to monitor those accounts, like mint, etc?
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14:12:07 <warlord> no, it cannot connect to mint
14:12:13 <warlord> AFAIT
14:12:15 <warlord> AFAIK
14:12:35 <CharlesIC> any thoughts on the best way to do this?
14:16:32 <warlord> You need a bank that supports OFX-DC.
14:16:39 <warlord> Alas, there's been a problem with OFXHome..
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14:17:04 <warlord> ... although it looks like it's back up!
14:27:21 <CharlesIC> warlord, so i can see all my various accounts through usaa
14:27:25 <CharlesIC> as i added them as 3p accounts
14:27:30 <CharlesIC> but individually, many of them i cannot access
14:27:40 <CharlesIC> and i can download usaa to gnucash
14:27:52 <CharlesIC> im just wondering if there's an easy way to get all of them from one site and easily with gnucash
14:28:41 <warlord> What do you mean by "3p accounts"?
14:28:49 * warlord doesn't use any online banking features.
14:29:44 <CharlesIC> third party
14:29:50 <CharlesIC> i like downloading transactions instead of putting them in manually
14:30:11 <warlord> But then you lose the ability to track bank errors.
14:31:25 <CharlesIC> huh?
14:32:08 <warlord> When you download transactions you're blindly trusting the bank hasn't made an error.
14:32:19 <CharlesIC> ok, i can check through the website, if necessary
14:32:28 <CharlesIC> it's STILL way easier than manually adding
14:32:38 <CharlesIC> so, can you tell me if it's possible?
14:32:55 <warlord> If you manually enter them then if there is a discrepancy you can quickly notice something is amiss and determine if it was a bad entry on your part or the bank
14:33:18 <CharlesIC> ok, im not going to argue with you about whether or not direct connect transaction downloads are a good idea or not
14:33:21 <warlord> I have no idea I dont use that functionality, so I dont understand what your issue actually is with it.
14:33:22 <CharlesIC> im just trying to find out the possibilities
14:33:25 <CharlesIC> ok
14:33:26 <CharlesIC> thanks
14:33:43 <warlord> I know you need OFX-DC, not Web Connect.
14:34:26 <warlord> I know you need a unique GNC account per bank account.
14:34:54 <jralls> CharelsIC: I use OFX-DC with USAA for bank and credit card downloads, works fine. I think that there's a generic problem wth brokerage accounts and OFX-DC with AQB. Is that what you're having trouble with?
14:40:10 <CharlesIC> jralls, the usaa accounts work fine
14:40:35 <CharlesIC> the issue is i also have several other accounts with other banks
14:40:49 <CharlesIC> but i can access them all in usaa, because i added them as 3p accounts
14:40:51 <CharlesIC> third party
14:41:02 <CharlesIC> so i was wondering if i can somehow get gnucash to download all of them, just through gnucash
14:41:05 <CharlesIC> err usaa
14:41:11 <CharlesIC> because through usaa web, i can see all of them
14:41:15 <CharlesIC> and usaa mobile app
14:41:19 <CharlesIC> i'm guessing not, but wanted to ask
14:41:55 <jralls> Interesting. I didn't know one could do that. I think you'll have to call USAA and ask them.
14:42:11 <CharlesIC> i messaged them and they didn't understand the question
14:42:14 <CharlesIC> yeah, you can add third party accounts
14:42:19 <CharlesIC> most banks allow this through their web interface
14:42:31 <CharlesIC> so if you have usaa, you can add capital one through "linking" accounts
14:42:34 <CharlesIC> so you can see your transactions there
14:43:17 <jralls> But that doesn't mean that USAA can then forward the 3p account via OFX-DC.
14:43:58 <jralls> The help desk folks at USAA won't know anything about GnuCash, but they'll know about Quicken. Ask them if you can download your 3p transactions into Quicken.
14:44:01 <CharlesIC> yeah, that's what im trying to figure out
14:45:51 <jralls> Another thing to look for is if the 3p accounts show up on the "Download transactions" page on the USAA website. If you can't download them from there you probably can't get to them through OFX-DC either.
14:46:08 <CharlesIC> you can
14:47:02 <CharlesIC> yeah, i can go to the account and "Export"
14:47:28 <CharlesIC> well, to csv, at least
14:47:58 <jralls> Oh, not "Microsoft Money" or "Quicken"?
14:52:34 <jralls> Oh, no, not export. On the account page click on "I want to..." on the right side and then select "Download Account Activity", the second item.
14:54:59 <jralls> Huh. That doesn't take you to a download file menu. I though it did. Instead it goes to an instruction page for OFX-WC and OFX-DC.
14:55:21 <jralls> What happens if you do that on one of the third-party accounts?
14:59:07 <CharlesIC> jralls, well, in gnucash, you have to specify the routing and account #, right?
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15:00:34 <jralls> We'll get to GnuCash later. What do you see on the USAA website when you open a 3p account, click "I want to..." and select "Download Account Activity"?
15:01:08 <CharlesIC> that's not an option. i can export it though under transactions
15:02:04 <CharlesIC> yeah, so 3p ones allow exporting as csv, but not downloading account activity
15:02:11 <jralls> If that's not an option then USAA doesn't serve those accounts via OFX. You'll have to see if the banks where the accounts actually live do.
15:02:22 <CharlesIC> yeah, that's the problem i've run into
15:02:27 <CharlesIC> it seems most of them do not :/
15:02:40 <CharlesIC> for instance, im trying a capital one 360
15:02:43 <CharlesIC> and i cant get account list
15:05:11 <jralls> Users have reported that Cap One bank accounts are accessible via OFX-DC, but that credit cards aren't. Cap One CC accounts can be downloaded as "Microsoft Money", QIF, or "Quicken" files; GnuCash can import any of those formats via File>Import. That's how I handle my Cap One CC accounts.
15:05:34 <CharlesIC> i cant even do the bank accounts
15:05:37 <jralls> s/accounts/account/. I have only one Cap One card.
15:06:32 <jralls> They may not support account download. Does AQB find settings for Cap One bank from OFXHome?
15:06:42 <CharlesIC> yeah
15:06:46 <CharlesIC> i just get errors on logging in
15:07:48 <jralls> You may have to call Cap One and get them to turn on online banking for you. Users have reported that for several banks, including one (Chase?) that charges $10/month for the privilege.
15:08:17 <jralls> I don't remember if Cap One was one of those.
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15:55:11 <CharlesIC> yeah exactly
15:55:18 <CharlesIC> c1 shouldnt
15:55:27 <CharlesIC> online banking is on with c1 and c360
15:55:30 <CharlesIC> it even shows the access code
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16:02:21 <jralls> CharlesIC: What access code is that?
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16:10:33 <CharlesIC> "online access code"
16:10:46 <CharlesIC> http://help.pocketsmith.com/knowledgebase/articles/384372-capital-one-360-bank-feed-instructions
16:23:35 <lmat> Has anyone heard back from Keith Gallagher about using gnucash as a software maintenance project for his class?
16:29:20 <lmat> I mean, I would assume he would contact the list (or be directed back to the list in any case). Perhaps he decided to work on a different project. It seems like a very good idea to teach software developers something about software maintenance. Writing new software is not nearly as common or lucrative as maintaining existing software.
16:29:29 <jralls> lmat: Not since the first exchange. It sounded from that like he intended to go ahead with his plan and the next we'll hear about is when students start working.
16:31:08 <jralls> CharlesIC: That looks like it's OFX-WC, which GnuCash doesn't support.
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16:34:25 <jralls> CharlesIC: Did you try to setup an AQBanking user with the userid and connect, then supply the access code when prompted?
16:34:40 <CharlesIC> jralls, well, i added the user
16:34:43 <CharlesIC> and then click retrieve accounts
16:34:46 <CharlesIC> and it gives an unclear error
16:35:31 <jralls> Maybe they don't support account download. Did you try creating the account manually?
16:42:12 <CharlesIC> i can try that now
16:44:55 <erictheise> I could use some account organization advice. I'm a software developer and an occasional artist, not an accountant. Say, for any given film project I would like to be able to identify categories of expense, e.g., Lab Work, Equipment, Materials, Festival Entry Fees, Promotion, Distribution, etc. These are common to any film project and, naturally I'd like to be able to roll these up across all film projects.
16:45:19 <erictheise> I work in other media and would like to be able to roll expenses up across all art projects.
16:45:43 <erictheise> Is it "better" to create one parent account per project, each having those categories, or to create those categories under, say, Art -> Motion Picture and to use Notes or some other convention to break out expenses and income for individual projects? And please define "better".
16:47:41 <lmat> erictheise: I don't think there is any "accepted principal" that governs this sort of decision. You'll have to decide which meets your needs best.
16:48:03 <lmat> erictheise: it would be nice to be able to view them both ways, but that problem has proved insurmountable so far.
16:49:32 <fell> erictheise:The long answer: Read a book about Management_accounting
16:49:48 <erictheise> lmat: Yes, but it must be a very common problem and I’d love to hear from someone with a strong opinion one way or the other.
16:50:30 <erictheise> lmat: I actually did dig out an old Fundamentals of Accounting book but I gather it’s too elementary.
16:54:28 <fell> Example: you spent last month 100$ for gasoline
16:55:29 <fell> You drove 300km for FilmA, 400 for filmB and 200 private.
16:56:06 <fell> then you split the cost for gasoline proportinal
16:57:47 <erictheise> fell: My question’s not about allocation to accounts, it’s about the degree of account nesting and the order in which to do it.
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16:59:09 <fell> and the cash flow report will show you the details for each project
17:00:23 <fell> I woukld use no nesting.
17:02:09 <fell> I would create 2 groups: type of cost (gas, elecetricity, ...) and carrier of cost (FilmA, FilmB, ... private)
17:02:37 <erictheise> fell: I see. My natural inclination would be to do either  Motion Pictures
17:02:37 <erictheise> Materials
17:02:39 <erictheise> Film 1
17:02:39 <erictheise> Film 2
17:02:41 <erictheise> ...
17:02:42 <erictheise> Lab Work
17:02:44 <erictheise> Film 1
17:02:45 <erictheise> Film 2
17:02:47 <erictheise> ...
17:02:48 <erictheise> or
17:02:50 <erictheise> Motion Pictures
17:02:51 <erictheise> Film 1
17:02:53 <erictheise> Materials
17:02:54 <erictheise> Lab Work
17:02:56 <erictheise> ...
17:02:57 <erictheise> Film 2
17:02:59 <erictheise> Materials
17:03:00 <erictheise> Lab Work
17:03:01 <erictheise> ...  but you suggest I’m overcomplicating things.
17:03:02 <erictheise> (sorry about the look of that, ugh.)
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17:07:05 <fell> In my example, I would create 2 txn:
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17:07:56 <fell> 1. pay the gasoline: 100 cash -> gasoline cost
17:09:37 <fell> 2. (end of month) split gasoline on projects: 33:FilmA, 45:FilmB, 22:private
17:11:38 <erictheise> fell: If I were to look at your Accounts tab, it would just be one long list with no nesting/subaccounts?
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17:13:12 <fell> Your example: Cost: (Material, Lab Work, ...), Projects (Film1, Film2, ...)
17:16:20 <fell> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_accounting as starting point for several approachs
17:17:22 <fell> with their pros and cons and find the most appropriate
17:18:47 <erictheise> fell: thank you for that link and your time & advice.
17:18:59 <fell> welcome
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17:53:23 <buck> Brand new to chat! Don't know what I'm doing, but need help on how to set up gnucash for a non-profit. How would I handle donors, etc.
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18:02:34 <fell> Hi buck!
18:03:55 <fell> Can you be more specific?
18:05:44 <fell> Usually donations are one form of income of the non-profit.
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18:13:36 <buck> Hi fell! I'm specifically talking about church contributions, but it could be any npo. I'd like to enter contributions to different areas, ie., tithes, building fund, etc. and attach it to the contributor. Then be able to build a report showing the contributor giving to those areas.
18:15:01 <buck> I forgot to mention that I've been using QuickBooks for years and am kind of set in my ways on how I want to do things
18:16:07 <fell> Probably you would better ask on the gnucash-user mailinglist because there are several users with the same task.
18:16:47 <buck> I'm not familiar with that. How do I find it?
18:16:56 <fell> and yes, describe your problem as specific as possible.
18:19:41 <fell> Read https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists , then use the link to subscibe the list and then send a mail to the list e.g. "Setting up GC for Charity"
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18:21:59 <buck> Thanks a million, fell. Nice chatting with you.
18:22:16 <fell> Welcome :-)
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18:30:49 <fell> When I am logged in, I get a german version of https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Special:RequestAccount - without our changes.
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19:13:36 <dryad> why doe the Transfer Funds dialog come up when reconcilliation is finished?
19:33:15 <erictheise> dryad: From the mailing list on 30 jul: in Gnucash>Preferences>Register>Reconciling you have “Automatic credit card payment” checked.
19:36:04 <dryad> ah, ok. thanks
19:38:02 <erictheise> can’t say why that’s the default, I was happy to learn how to switch it off, happier still to learn that escaping out of it didn’t undo any of the reconciliation.
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20:45:11 <warlord> it's the default because when your credit card bill comes in, you reconcile, and then you probably write a check (i.e. make a payment)
20:45:21 <warlord> dryad, erictheise ... that was for you
21:40:26 <erictheise> warlord: makes sense, thanks. I’ve spent a lot of time renconciling imported but incomplete historical transactions on a month by month basis, where this feature puzzled me. Now that I’ve caught up, I find my reconciling statements weeks before I make the actual payments, so it’s still not a good fit for me. I’m just too messy to be the default case.
21:44:03 <dryad> warlord: i don't directly transfer money from account to account when i pay my credit card bill, i write a check and make a transaction: assets:checking -> liabilities:credit card
21:44:29 <dryad> i don't think i've ever even used the transfer funds dialog before ever
21:45:10 <dryad> should i start doing that instead of making a transaction as i've described above?
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