2017-08-07 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:50:58 <dryad> nevermind.. i see you can just skip that transaction in the reconilliation
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00:51:15 <dryad> and reconcile it whenever the statement that it is on comes in
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01:45:52 <dryad> when i try to change a transaction that's been reconciled, gnucash tells me "You are about to change a reconciled split. Doing so might make future reconciliation difficult!"
01:46:01 <dryad> what exactly does this difficulty consist in?
01:46:31 <dryad> what will i have to do to do reconciliation in the future?
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02:08:08 <lester> .
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11:24:54 <fell> dryad: One way is to use an interim account 'Liabilities:Emitted Cheques' similar to 'Current Assets:Money in Transfer'.
11:27:43 <fell> Did you read https://wiki.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/cbook-reconacct1.html ?
11:29:18 <fell> Oops, it should have been https://wiki.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/txns-reconcile1.html
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12:59:41 <dryad> fell: i did read that
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13:02:19 <fell> dryad, so, if you change an reconciled split, you should rerun the reconciliation for the affected and all following periods.
13:03:06 <dryad> ok
13:03:34 <dryad> so should i anticipate having difficulty doing that, as the warning says?
13:05:03 <fell> 'start balance + movements = end balance' will break if you change the amount of movements.
13:05:57 <dryad> can i fix it?
13:07:12 <fell> yes, as I said above.
13:08:14 <fell> If you would not repeat it all following reconciliations would be wrong.
13:08:21 <dryad> i see
13:08:26 <dryad> that makes sense
13:10:05 <fell> Do you have some suggestions how to improve the wordening of the guide to make it more clear?
13:15:34 <dryad> well, it could just say if you change an already reconciled transaction you will need to rerun the reconciliation for the affected and all following periods to make them balance
13:15:39 <dryad> something along those lines
13:16:46 <fell> Ah, this warning in the program?
13:16:52 <dryad> yeah
13:17:21 <dryad> it could be both in the program and the guide
13:18:34 <dryad> also, if some of the reconciliated transaction are "broken", then it might be useful to have them and all affected transactions be marked as such.. maybe with a red background or something
13:19:06 <dryad> so that the user can see that something's wrong, and what it is.. and what he'll have to re-run the reconciliation against
13:19:48 <dryad> a red background for just the reconciled column of the affected transactions, maybe
13:19:55 <dryad> what do you think?
13:20:06 <fell> IIRC the reconciled flag gets reset or what did you watch?
13:20:21 <dryad> i didn't dare to change an already reconciled transaction yet
13:20:31 <dryad> the warning scared me off
13:22:04 <dryad> also, the issue i'm having doesn't have to do with changing the amounts of an already reconciled transaction, so i don't expect the balance to be affected, and don't know how gnucash will react
13:22:30 <dryad> my particular issue is that for some transactions, i don't know which accounts they came from, so they're temporarily in Imbalanced-USD
13:23:01 <fell> Oh
13:23:03 <dryad> like, for example, i have some deposits i made.. i have a record of making them, and they show up in my bank statements.. i know the exact amounts, but i don't have a record of where the money came from
13:23:27 <dryad> so i can reconcile those.. but in the future, i might find out where they came from, and then i'll want to change the account to show that
13:24:21 <fell> But that would usually not affect the bank side split.
13:24:27 <dryad> right, exactly
13:24:33 <dryad> but it is a change
13:24:44 <dryad> or maybe i want to edit the description
13:25:35 <dryad> if those kinds of changes that don't affect the balance won't affect the reconciliation, then maybe gnucash should allow them without the warning?
13:25:41 <dryad> would that make sense?
13:25:51 <fell> can you run a test?
13:26:32 <fell> IMHO changing the description or the other account should not trigger the warning.
13:26:49 <fell> Before save your file1
13:27:14 <dryad> it does give me a warning when i try to change a description
13:27:55 <fell> OK, that maes sense. It should be part of the statement.
13:27:56 <dryad> "Change reconciled split?" "You are about to change a reconciled split. Doing so might make future reconciliation difficult! Continue with this change?"
13:28:21 <dryad> same warning if i try to change the account
13:30:53 <fell> Hm, its seems more complex. can you file a bug report?
13:31:22 <dryad> sure
13:33:28 <fell> I assume there will be some discussion, in which case the warning should pop up,
13:33:56 <fell> but we could improve the text of the warning and of the guide.
13:35:37 <dryad> looks like there's a related bug: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710902
13:35:43 <dryad> "Moving transactions to different accounts retains "y" reconciled status "
13:36:30 <dryad> though it's not clear which account the author of the bug report means
13:36:45 <dryad> the account that's been reconciled against, or the other account
13:37:19 <dryad> the bug report does make sense if it's he changed the account the transaction was reconciled against, but not if he changed the other account
13:40:09 <dryad> by the way, i'm running gnucash 2.6.15
13:40:21 <dryad> i don't know if the warnings show up in later versions
13:44:11 <fell> Yes, it is the same warning, but a different use case:
13:45:06 <fell> Tommy expected, the flag should be reset and it did not.
13:47:55 <fell> you could add to your report 'See also Bug 710902 - Moving transactions to different accounts retains "y" reconciled status'
13:48:28 <dryad> ok, i've written a draft of the bug report.. title: "Warnings when changing descriptions or other accounts of reconciled transactions"
13:48:37 <dryad> content:
13:48:41 <dryad> When I try to change the description or other account of a reconciled transaction, GnuCash warns me that "You are about to change a reconciled split. Doing so might make future reconciliation difficult! Continue with this change?"
13:48:43 <dryad> Since the change won't affect the reconciled balance, I'm not sure if this warning makes sense. It might make more sense to allow these sorts of changes without warning.
13:48:52 <dryad> See also Bug 710902 - Moving transactions to different accounts retains "y" reconciled status
13:48:56 <dryad> how does that sound?
13:49:51 <fell> yep
13:50:27 <dryad> i'm not sure if i need to clarify what i mean by "other account" in the first sentence
13:50:33 <dryad> or if it's clear enough
13:53:27 <fell> Today I know it, but tomorrow - I don't know ;-)
13:55:16 <dryad> i could add: Note: By "other account" above, I mean an account that has not been reconciled, but is referenced in a reconciled transaction.
13:55:36 <dryad> hmm.. maybe that's too awkward.. but i'm not sure how to express it more clearly
13:59:27 <fell> Sounds good
14:02:20 <dryad> cool
14:02:48 <dryad> submitted: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=785958
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14:38:13 <fell> dryad and I commented :-)
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15:11:35 <jonas> does gnucash support cryptocurrencies as currencies?
15:11:55 <jonas> last I checked there was no support to add other currencies, but maybe that has changed
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15:17:32 <fell> jonas: only ISO currencies. Or did we miss your patch?
15:18:08 <jonas> no patch
15:18:58 <jonas> I might look into recompiling just to add the currencies I want, but I doubt I have the time to add proper general support to add currencies
15:19:55 <fell> you can misuse XXX or XTS
15:20:32 <jonas> I'm currently using random currencies, but it's hard to remember which represents what :P
15:21:17 <jonas> I think I ran into issues where gnucash didn't track enough decimals to fully track some cryptocurrency, as well
15:21:56 <fell> use mBTC or µBTC
15:22:10 <jonas> yeah, that's what I ended up doing
15:23:07 <fell> IIRC 2.8 will use other numeric libs.
15:26:42 <fell> So, if you build from source use the master branch to test that aspect.
15:27:03 <jonas> okay, thanks
15:29:01 <fell> So, if you build from source use the mwelcome
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15:33:38 <dryad> i think i found another bug.. more of a real bug this time
15:34:16 <dryad> when i edit a split complex split transaction and record it, some of the fields in the split might get re-ordered by gnucash
15:34:47 <dryad> then, when i go back to edit that split transaction, hitting TAB does not necessarily go from one field to the next in the order that's visible on the screen
15:35:14 <dryad> the TAB might take me to another field in a corresponding split (which appears to be a different transaction if it's in the same account)
15:35:23 <dryad> or it might take me to the next transaction
15:36:00 <dryad> i suspect what might be going on is that gnucash is maintaining the order of pre-sorted fields in the sub-transactions in the split transaction
15:36:23 <dryad> and when i TAB, it goes to the next field according to the pre-sorted order
15:36:35 <dryad> while what's on screen is post-sorted
15:36:37 <dryad> or something like that
15:36:38 <dryad> maybe
15:37:03 <dryad> anyway, it's super annoying when it happens, and it makes TAB useless or even borderline dangerous
15:41:02 <dryad> looks like it can even happen when clicking on a field
15:47:15 <fell> dryad: usually they get ordered by credit/debit as primary and the entered timestamp as secojdary key
15:53:14 <dryad> and that's ok, i guess (though sometimes maybe i don't want them reordered at all, or want the ability to manually order them myself as i see fit)
15:53:26 <dryad> the real issue is the weird TAB and click behavior
15:54:53 <dryad> i can live with the auto-reordering if TABing and clicking behaved as expected (ie. for the field i clicked on to always be the one that becomes active, and when i TAB to move to the next field to the right, or to the leftmost field in the next row if there are no more fields on the right)
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15:55:56 <fell> That is the expected behaviour
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15:56:31 <dryad> i usually get that behavior, but occasionally not
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15:56:43 <dryad> random field activation happens in certain complex splits
15:56:54 <fell> clean the keyboard?
15:56:59 <dryad> :)
15:57:06 <dryad> no, i mean random when i TAB or click
15:58:05 <dryad> i'll see if i can come up with a way to reproduce the behavior in a new gnucash file
16:02:31 <dryad> of course, that's easier said than done :)
16:04:07 <dryad> hmm.. when i closed and re-opened my gnucash file, the behavior disappeared
16:04:20 <dryad> or maybe there's some other precondition for that i'm missing
16:07:27 <dryad> actually, at least the random clicking behavior still happens
16:07:41 <dryad> and i'm able to reproduce it in a new file
16:10:39 <dryad> also, looks like changes are recorded in the file even when i tell gnucash not to discard them
16:10:48 <dryad> err
16:10:50 <dryad> i mean:
16:10:54 <dryad> also, looks like changes are recorded in the file even when i tell gnucash to discard them
16:25:45 <dryad> ok, i filed a bug on that last one (changes recorded even when telling gnucash to discard them) here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=785965
16:25:50 <dryad> full steps to reproduce are there
16:27:05 <dryad> i think the weird clicking issue is related to this... as when i click on the reconcile status fields in this complex split, gnucash seems to move focus and change the corresponding field in another split in the same account
16:28:16 <dryad> but that buggy behavior is more complex and i can't seem to reproduce it reliably yet
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18:51:49 <fell> I just watch, our html generation (for ... do ...) is not make style
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21:47:14 <dryad> what's are the pros and cons of keeping all of one's records in a single gnucash file vs splitting them up in to multiple files (say, by year) ?
21:48:43 <dryad> so far i have 3 or 4 years of transactions in a single file.. and it's nice to be able to search through them all at once, and to increase the odds of any new transaction already being like many of the old transactions from previous years, so new transactions often auto-fill-in when i start entering them
21:49:36 <dryad> if i split them in to a file per year, i'll be entering more transactions from scratch, and i can't search them all at once
21:49:49 <dryad> but i know some people like to split them up, so they're "starting fresh" each year
21:49:55 <dryad> and i'm not sure if i should do so too or not
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