2017-05-24 GnuCash IRC logs

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09:29:29 <warlord> jralls: there are two email_confirmed bits. One in the 'credentials' table, and one in the 'users' table. The one in the creds table was set; the one in the users table was not.
09:30:12 <warlord> jralls: re: graphics, define "broken"? I don't even see any graphics down there, nor something that should be.
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12:06:52 <CharlesIC> i did a partial refund on an invoice
12:06:56 <CharlesIC> how do i show this in gnucash?
12:07:00 <CharlesIC> it's showing as a further payment
12:08:35 <warlord> CharlesIC: yes, a credit note will appear as a payment and must be tied to the invoice in the Payment system.
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12:08:58 <CharlesIC> im not sure what to do
12:09:14 <CharlesIC> so it shows in the checking account as $110 check going out to client
12:09:21 <CharlesIC> so there's a decrease in checking
12:09:22 <warlord> CharlesIC: create and post the credit note. Then Process Payment and select the invoice and credit note.
12:09:25 <CharlesIC> so how do i reflect that int he invoice?
12:09:40 <CharlesIC> i did "assign as payment" from the checking account and chose the invoice
12:09:42 <CharlesIC> i guess that's wrong
12:09:50 <warlord> That's not a credit note.
12:09:59 <warlord> Maybe gjanssens can help explain...
12:10:32 <CharlesIC> warlord, ok, so i added the transaction in my checking account
12:10:35 <CharlesIC> what do i do from there?
12:11:50 <warlord> delete it and start over
12:12:11 <CharlesIC> so i cannot initially add it as a transaction for the checking account?
12:12:40 <warlord> I am fairly sure you cannot create a credit note in that manner against a customer invoice.
12:12:47 <CharlesIC> no i get that
12:12:52 <warlord> But gjanssens would know for sure.
12:12:54 <CharlesIC> i mean just adding it initially as a transaction
12:12:57 <CharlesIC> gjanssens, hello
12:13:12 <CharlesIC> http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2011-May/039837.html
12:16:30 <warlord> Yes, in 2011 that was prior to true credit notes.
12:17:57 <CharlesIC> oh ok
12:18:15 <CharlesIC> i dont even see how to do one
12:18:18 <CharlesIC> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Credit_Notes
12:18:25 <CharlesIC> that's not really a howto
12:18:48 <warlord> What version of GnuCash are you using?
12:18:58 <CharlesIC> 2.6.16
12:19:07 <warlord> I believe it is Business -> Customer -> New Credit Note
12:19:19 <CharlesIC> dont see that
12:19:24 <warlord> (Either that or it's "New Invoice" and you mark the invoice as a credit note).
12:19:35 <CharlesIC> oh so you create a new invoice
12:19:52 <warlord> A credit note is a special kind of invoice that allows a "negative" balance.
12:19:57 <CharlesIC> oh ok
12:19:59 <warlord> Then you use that as a payment
12:20:16 <CharlesIC> so the customer will ultimately have two invoices?
12:20:18 <warlord> But I'm not 100% up on how you create one
12:20:27 <warlord> No, they have an invoice and a credit note.
12:21:16 <CharlesIC> ok
12:21:19 <CharlesIC> im creating a credit note now
12:22:55 <CharlesIC> ok so now i have a credit note
12:23:01 <CharlesIC> but the invoice still shows the original payment
12:23:35 <warlord> Yes...
12:23:54 <warlord> Because they DID pay you...
12:23:59 <CharlesIC> yes
12:24:04 <warlord> And now with the credit note you are refunding them.
12:24:17 <CharlesIC> so im trying to figure out how to show how much they still owe
12:24:17 <warlord> So you can "pay" the credit note.
12:24:35 <CharlesIC> basically i did a partial refund, then they are having to pay me again b/c they changed their mind
12:24:36 <warlord> Run a Customer Report
12:24:57 <gjanssens> warlord, CharlesIC: you do create a credit note via "New Invoice"
12:25:06 <CharlesIC> yes
12:25:09 <gjanssens> That is due for a change but I never got around to it yet
12:25:22 <CharlesIC> gjanssens, basically i refunded them $110 and then they changed their mind so they are paying me again so im trying to track the total
12:25:35 <gjanssens> (To have a separate "New Credit note" menu item)
12:25:54 <CharlesIC> oh i see the issue
12:26:01 <CharlesIC> i initially registered the refund as a payment
12:26:04 <CharlesIC> it's still showing there
12:26:11 <CharlesIC> it's showing as credit note and payment
12:26:18 <CharlesIC> how do i stop having it assigned as a payment?
12:26:43 <gjanssens> CharlesIC: the only way to stop having it assigned as a payment is deleting it.
12:26:45 <CharlesIC> so the same transaction under customer report is showing as credit note AND payment
12:26:49 <CharlesIC> ok
12:26:50 <gjanssens> However you may not have to.
12:27:06 <gjanssens> Gnucash should reflect your history
12:27:08 <warlord> CharlesIC: Like I said, you need to delete the transaction from the checking account.
12:27:26 <CharlesIC> ok
12:27:36 <gjanssens> So if you sent your customer an invoice and they paid you in full that should be in your books
12:27:54 <CharlesIC> warlord, gjanssens is saying i may not ehave to?
12:27:55 <gjanssens> If you then refund them, that should be recorded separately
12:28:02 <CharlesIC> should i or no? delete the checking transaction and readd
12:28:27 <gjanssens> It depends on how the payment is recorded.
12:28:39 <CharlesIC> nevermind, im deleting
12:28:39 <warlord> Your books should match what actually happened
12:28:40 <CharlesIC> ;)
12:29:05 <gjanssens> Did you assign it to a document already ? Or only created a payment to your customer (best via Process Payment...)
12:29:29 <CharlesIC> i deleted and readded the transaction
12:29:37 <gjanssens> How ?
12:29:39 <CharlesIC> the credit note is showing as a debit
12:29:40 <CharlesIC> hmm
12:30:38 <gjanssens> CharlesIC: I think we need to go back a bit
12:30:51 <CharlesIC> gjanssens, ok. i just deleted the checking account transaction and readded it
12:30:55 <CharlesIC> and im looking at customer report
12:31:02 <CharlesIC> and it shows $110 for credit note, but as debit
12:31:04 <CharlesIC> when it should be credit.
12:31:20 <gjanssens> How did you readd it ?
12:31:38 <CharlesIC> manually in checking account
12:31:50 <CharlesIC> i didnt assign it or anything
12:32:01 <gjanssens> Then it's not linked to your business transactions in any way.
12:32:07 <CharlesIC> right
12:32:15 <gjanssens> What you are seeing in the customer report is the credit note you created
12:32:19 <CharlesIC> oh ok
12:32:31 <gjanssens> Which may not have been necessary :)
12:32:46 <gjanssens> It depends on your accounting story
12:33:03 <gjanssens> Which starts with the invoice you made for your customer
12:33:15 <CharlesIC> ok, now it's showing total due is $140 :/
12:33:16 <gjanssens> You said you partially refunded it. What was the reason ?
12:33:21 <CharlesIC> the initial invoice was $500
12:33:27 <CharlesIC> they initially paid $260
12:33:40 <CharlesIC> they changed their mind and i said i'd refund $110 because of hours worked
12:33:55 <CharlesIC> and then they wanted to finish it so they paid me $100 again
12:34:00 <CharlesIC> meaning, in all, they've paid me $250
12:34:07 <CharlesIC> but right now the customer report says $140 is owed
12:34:27 <CharlesIC> it has a credit note and payment
12:34:32 <gjanssens> A refund for $110 of hours worked, by them for you ?
12:34:35 <CharlesIC> was i not supposed to assign as payment then choose credit note?
12:34:52 <CharlesIC> after i created the transaction just now, i clicked on it and assigned payment and chose credit note
12:34:53 <CharlesIC> was that wrong?
12:36:04 <gjanssens> CharlesIC: slow down please. I can't tell you what you are supposed to do until I understand your full story
12:36:16 <gjanssens> In business accounting there's always a document flow and a financial flow
12:36:23 <gjanssens> Both have to be complete.
12:36:44 <gjanssens> But you only talk of one invoice and then a whole amount of payments in both directions
12:37:13 <gjanssens> The invoice was for $500, but they pay you only $250
12:37:30 <gjanssens> Do you expect them to pay the remainder? Or is part of the invoice to be credited ?
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12:45:07 <gjanssens> CharlesIC: I'll soon have to leave...
12:47:53 <CharlesIC> sorry back
12:48:06 <CharlesIC> gjanssens, they paid me $250 initially
12:48:09 <CharlesIC> then i refunded them $110
12:48:16 <CharlesIC> sorry, they paid me $260
12:48:21 <CharlesIC> I refunded them $110, then they paid me $100
12:48:25 <CharlesIC> they should owe me $250
12:48:49 <CharlesIC> but right now their invoice shows they only owe me $140
12:50:46 <gjanssens> Ok, so probably the credit note you created is already assigned to the invoice as well.
12:51:03 <CharlesIC> under customer report
12:51:10 <gjanssens> From what I hear you didn't need the credit note
12:51:13 <CharlesIC> there is a credit note and it says -$110 debit
12:51:20 <CharlesIC> and below that there is a payment for $110 credit
12:51:33 <CharlesIC> so it cancels itself out
12:51:53 <CharlesIC> gjanssens, perhaps not. i just want to show a refund on the invoice ;)
12:52:00 <CharlesIC> so should i delete the CN?
12:52:07 <gjanssens> No you don't see in the customer report which payments are against which invoice
12:52:41 <gjanssens> You can't delete it, but you can unpost it (and later recycle as your next invoice for whatever customer you'll make a credit note for)
12:53:20 <CharlesIC> ok
12:53:26 <gjanssens> So you need one invoice and 3 payments: 260, -110 and 100
12:53:29 <CharlesIC> i unposted it, but it still shows on my invoice that the person owes me $140
12:53:35 <CharlesIC> when it should be $250
12:53:47 <CharlesIC> ok, so that's the issue
12:54:05 <gjanssens> You can print payment details on your invoice by altering the report settings
12:54:06 <CharlesIC> under my checking account, i show the $110 going out as a check/refund
12:54:14 <gjanssens> That may give you some clue as to what's wrong
12:54:21 <CharlesIC> payments box is checked
12:55:11 <gjanssens> It doesn't matter what it says in your checking account. It matters how you created/assigned it
12:55:37 <gjanssens> If the payments box is checked what payment details are listed on the invoice ?
12:56:07 <CharlesIC> all of them except the $110 refund
12:57:37 <CharlesIC> so what do i assign the $110 outbound payment as?
12:59:11 <gjanssens> Nothing.
12:59:29 <CharlesIC> ok
12:59:31 <gjanssens> I'm running a test, but it looks like your scenario is not supported
12:59:35 <CharlesIC> so this is where i am right now
12:59:37 <gjanssens> Give me a sec.
12:59:49 <CharlesIC> i could create another account for refunds or something, i dont know
13:00:35 <CharlesIC> basically, how can you get a withdrawal in an asset/checking account to show as a credit or whatever in the invoice.
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13:03:48 <gjanssens> CharlesIC: ok, there is a bug in there (or new feature not yet implemented depending on how you want to see it)
13:03:53 <CharlesIC> haha
13:04:13 <gjanssens> The payment window won't let you assign a refund to an invoice. It will just create a prepayment instead
13:04:27 <gjanssens> The way to work around it is this:
13:04:43 <gjanssens> Open the Process payment window and select your customer
13:05:03 <CharlesIC> ok
13:05:13 <gjanssens> Make a normal payment of $110 (the opposite of what you want to do!)
13:05:52 <gjanssens> Then in your checking account adjust the payment transaction and make it a $110 withdrawal instead of a $110 payment
13:06:28 <gjanssens> That will bypass the logic that prevents you from doing it directly in the payment window
13:07:06 <CharlesIC> what do i put for transfer account?
13:07:13 <CharlesIC> when at process payment?
13:07:33 <gjanssens> The account you used to pay the refund
13:09:00 <CharlesIC> it's still showing $140 for invoice :(
13:09:31 <gjanssens> Then you did something slightly differently from me
13:09:37 <CharlesIC> let me try again
13:10:21 <CharlesIC> oh i didn't select anything when making payment
13:10:40 <gjanssens> Ah that may help
13:10:58 <gjanssens> Is there still a pre-payment in the list ?
13:11:08 <CharlesIC> i got it
13:11:25 <CharlesIC> i think i know a way to have gotten around that
13:11:39 <CharlesIC> no
13:11:45 <gjanssens> Ok
13:11:53 <gjanssens> So is it ok now ?
13:11:58 <CharlesIC> yes, thanks sir =)
13:12:08 <gjanssens> Lovely :)
13:12:32 <gjanssens> I've got to leave now. Enjoy gnucash!
13:12:36 <CharlesIC> thanks! bye
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13:16:48 <kentling> Is it possible to edit the data gnucash uses for transaction import?
13:17:39 <warlord> kentling: what do you mean? What data do you want to edit?
13:17:39 <kentling> It used to work great, but it's now getting wrong things it got right before, so I'd like to fix it, if possible
13:18:03 <warlord> Do you mean Bayesian matching informaton?
13:18:10 <kentling> Maybe.
13:18:24 <kentling> For instance, ALDI is only groceries. Nothing else.
13:18:33 <kentling> But gnucash comes up with fuel for some reason.
13:18:50 <kentling> and "costco fuel" it calls groceries.
13:19:05 <kentling> each of these, I've been training it on, and it's been right in the past.
13:19:22 <kentling> So I'm wondering if something got mixed up, that might be fixable.
13:19:36 <kentling> Does that make sense?
13:20:08 <warlord> There could be crossover tokens.
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13:20:16 <warlord> Which import method?
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13:20:33 <kentling> online banking, though I've done ofx, too.
13:21:11 <kentling> In America, so not HCBI, if that's what you meant (IIRC)
13:22:19 <kentling> I'm just thinking, a number of my vendors have "fuel" in their descriptions, so I think that should be easy to learn, if I could help gnucash make that connection.
13:22:53 <kentling> So what is a crossover token?
13:23:44 <warlord> The bayesian code splits the description into tokens (separate words). E.g. COSTCO 1234567. If you also had ALDI 1234567 then you'd have a crossover token.
13:24:09 <warlord> It would see the 1234567 and say "oh, this is COSTCO" and use the previous binding.
13:24:15 <warlord> s/would/could/
13:24:25 <kentling> Hmm... So is that user editable (by a more or less tech savvy user)?
13:24:32 <kentling> and where would they reside?
13:24:56 <kentling> OH, you mean numbers in the transaction description?
13:25:23 <kentling> This is more than one or two transactions.
13:26:02 <warlord> Yes, those are the numbers you get in your import (ofx)
13:26:12 <warlord> There isn't an easy way to reset the bayes data.
13:26:34 <warlord> Check the FAQ; it may walk you through how to manually remove it from your data file (but be sure to take a backup first)
13:26:46 <kentling> Is there any way to hint that "fuel" probably goes in "Auto:fuel"?
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13:28:35 <kentling> This I've done:https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_do_I_get_most_benefits_from_the_self_learning_Bayesian_algorithm_while_importing.3F
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13:30:41 <kentling> I don't see anything else on Bayesian matching; are you thinking of another FAQ?
13:32:04 <kentling> Do you know, is the Bayes data the same for importing a file from a hard drive or from a server online?
13:32:51 <kentling> If so, I could make a small file of dummy transactions with just the important words in the description...
13:43:01 <warlord> bayes data should be per-account...
13:43:15 <warlord> but doesn't matter how you import into that account.
13:43:35 <kentling> Oh, so when I get a new credit card, I start over?
13:43:49 <kentling> thanks.
13:44:38 <warlord> Yes.
13:47:22 <kentling> What do you think of my idea?
13:47:43 <kentling> if I give it a transaction with just one word, will that help it train the import?
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13:58:01 <kentling> FWIW, I tried it, an it seems to work. It might not help that my CC company puts my name in each transaction, pulling that out in my dummies maybe helped.
14:10:18 <warlord> kentling: yeah, your name in each txn would definitely be one of those crossover tokens.
14:13:13 <kentling> So I have a way not to add more positive tokens, any way to hint that it should ignore my name?
14:13:45 <kentling> This has actually helped a lot, so I can be OK, I'm just wondering if it can't be better....
14:14:00 <kentling> No reflection at all on all your wonderful work...
14:17:50 <warlord> Alas, no, I don't thnk there is a way to do that.
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14:25:27 <kentling> Ok, thanks anyway. For this help, and for the work on Gnucash more generally.
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14:40:47 <lmat> /wi/win 6
14:40:49 <lmat> oops
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