2017-03-19 GnuCash IRC logs
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07:59:46 <gjanssens> .
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14:20:50 <warlord> .
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15:12:14 <jralls> gjanssens, warlord: What do you think about ripping out the stylesheet code and instead having the html pull in real (.e.e CSS) stylesheets?
15:12:34 <jralls> Oops s/.e.e/i.e./
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15:16:09 <gjanssens> jralls: I'm all for it
15:16:34 <gjanssens> As long as it remains easy for a user to customize it
15:17:21 <jralls> So keep the editor and somehow parameterize the CSS?
15:17:41 <gjanssens> Yes, something like that
15:17:50 <warlord> No objection from me..
15:20:35 <jralls> This is the first hit when I google "css parameter": http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5029032/dynamic-css-with-a-variable-parameter-is-it-possible
15:20:40 <jralls> Looks doable.
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15:23:04 <jralls> It occurs to me that there's a simpler approach, too: Templatize the stylesheet files. The report code would do the substitutions from the editor and embed the result in the page as inline css.
15:23:47 <gjanssens> jralls: That is more what I had in mind.
15:24:09 <gjanssens> What made you come up with this idea?
15:24:22 <gjanssens> I mean replacing the whole stylesheet code ?
15:26:40 <jralls> I've been mulling that for some time because of the frequent questions and complaints on the user list about customizing stylesheets. Many orders of magnitude more people are familiar with css than scheme, and letting a user provide a from-scratch css stylesheet will permit them to do a lot more to personalize reports and especially invoices.
15:27:34 <gjanssens> Indeed.
15:28:24 <gjanssens> I had hoped the eguile initiative would be the start in that direction but after the initial couple of report conversions it stalled
15:28:40 <jralls> Then having to actually look at the code yesterday crystalized it. All of our current styling is pre-css. Pretty awful.
15:29:17 <gjanssens> All except for the eguile based reports
15:29:32 <jralls> I think eguile is the wrong way to go, but then I think that anything guile is the wrong way to go. ;-)
15:29:47 <gjanssens> :D
15:29:58 <gjanssens> Yes I agree on the guile thing
15:30:14 <gjanssens> But at least it brought in css for the first time
15:30:41 <gjanssens> Which was unfortunately never integrated at all with the style customization in gnucash
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15:31:23 <gjanssens> While not necessarily eguile, a templatized report system does tempt me though
15:31:59 <gjanssens> But before you know it we're in for the full rewrite of the report system :)
15:32:35 <jralls> For a complete report rewrite I think C++ parsing YAML report specs would be a big improvement. It would make it much easier for non-coders to generate custom reports.
15:32:36 <gjanssens> So if you can replace the style sheet code as an independent project that would be a very good first step
15:33:05 <gjanssens> Funny you mention yaml
15:33:14 <gjanssens> That's a thought I've been having for some time now
15:33:31 <gjanssens> To replace our saved report syntax with something like yaml or json
15:33:38 <jralls> You suggested the other day that html isn't the best report-output format. Did you have something else in mind?
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15:33:51 <gjanssens> Where it's currently guile executable code
15:34:01 <gjanssens> Did I ?
15:34:16 <jralls> I think yaml is a bit easier to digest for non-coders than json, but either would work fine.
15:34:22 <gjanssens> Hmm, I'd need some context for that again
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15:34:47 <jralls> Yeah. I guess it was just an offhand random thought.
15:34:52 <gjanssens> Well I don't know neither yaml nor json really
15:35:11 <gjanssens> So I'd be fine with yaml just as well
15:35:18 <jralls> We were talking about replacing WebKit with litehtml.
15:35:34 <jralls> Of course you know yaml. Think Windows ini files.
15:35:53 <gjanssens> Heh, and travis config of course
15:36:02 <gjanssens> I meant I never really dug into it :)
15:36:36 <jralls> I don't think many people do. It's so intuitive you just dive in and don't worry about the details too much.
15:37:19 <gjanssens> As for the report language, I may have been thinking about specialized report generating libraries such as crystal reports (which I only know by name btw)
15:37:47 <jralls> IIUC correctly most of them work off of SQL queries.
15:37:57 <gjanssens> I noticed someone mentioned several options on the webkit replacement bug
15:38:39 <gjanssens> We're headed towards sql anyway so that would work eventually
15:39:27 <gjanssens> I haven't looked at the various options yet.
15:40:58 <jralls> Yes, but we're a bit stalled out until next year, so I'm looking at some other warts that can be feasibly done by December. Ditching WebKit would be a major improvement, especially since I'm really worried that we won't be able to build WebKit2 on Windows.
15:42:02 <jralls> Plus I'd really like to ditch that beast.
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15:43:26 <gjanssens> It's built on Windows: https://github.com/Alexpux/MINGW-packages/tree/master/mingw-w64-webkitgtk3
15:43:33 <gjanssens> But that's msys2/mingw64
15:43:35 <jralls> I'm of two minds about javascript. On the one hand it's also a bit of a beast, on the other it's become a core part of html.
15:43:59 <gjanssens> I agree webkit is huge and more than we really need
15:44:35 <gjanssens> Whatever we come up with as replacement (html based or otherwise)
15:44:55 <gjanssens> It would be good if users can relatively easily make their own reports
15:45:35 <gjanssens> Guile is not our favourite but at least it does allow perseverant users to really tailor a report to suit their needs
15:45:52 <gjanssens> If we go for a c based plotting libary this may be more difficult
15:46:13 <gjanssens> That's ultimately the attraction of an html/javascript based solution
15:46:44 <gjanssens> I've even considered rewriting the whole reporting code in javascript at some point
15:47:10 <gjanssens> javascript is not the cleanest language either, but it's well known by even more people than guile
15:47:50 <jralls> I wouldn't do the whole thing in javascript, but I'd certainly consider having a C/C++ reporting engine that feeds json to javascript for rendering.
15:48:29 <jralls> Or even a C/C++ shim between jquery and our database.
15:48:41 <gjanssens> As long as all the data the user cares about can be queried without having to write C/C++ subroutines that's fine
15:49:13 <gjanssens> So our data exposure to whatever reporting system we come up with should be fairly complete
15:50:01 <jralls> Which means getting rid of QofQuery, which is the next step in the backend conversion.
15:50:17 <gjanssens> Also, just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, with reports I mean both text based reports and graphical reports
15:50:57 <gjanssens> My first impression is things like libgd and friends are mostly focussed on charting
15:51:04 <gjanssens> But I may be mistaken
15:51:32 <jralls> Yse, but so is jqplot.
15:52:02 <gjanssens> Of course. And that's only part of our reporting system
15:52:46 <jralls> The plotting library would be a replacement for jqplot so that we wouldn't need javascript.
15:53:19 <gjanssens> Right.
15:53:44 <gjanssens> The major attraction in jqplot for me is the ability to create interactive charts.
15:54:12 <gjanssens> We're only using this to a very limited extend but I wouldn't want to loose this ability.
15:54:31 <gjanssens> So reverting to statically generated images should be avoided.
15:54:58 * gjanssens is just writing down requirements as they come to mind for the new plotting system :)
15:55:34 <jralls> OK, then we can stick with javascript. It would allow someone to write more interactive text reports, too, in the jquery-shim or json->javascript models.
15:55:57 <jralls> Maybe I should say the latter as sql->json->javascript.
15:55:58 <gjanssens> ok
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15:56:15 <jralls> Instead of exporting the html in that last case we'd export the json.
15:57:02 <gjanssens> Hmm, I'm not following that?
15:57:20 <gjanssens> "Exporting" like we currently have "Export to html"?
15:57:45 <gjanssens> Or rather export like "make the info available for reporting"?
15:58:18 <gjanssens> jralls: allow me to jump to a separate topic here as well
15:58:33 <gjanssens> You briefly mentioned things to do before december
15:58:35 <jralls> Both. If the report rendering is done by javascript there isn't any html to export.
15:58:50 <gjanssens> oh ok
15:59:19 <jralls> Yes, stuff for this major release was my original drift.
15:59:30 <gjanssens> One thing I'd love to see done before 2.8 is some cleanup in our directory structure
15:59:38 <gjanssens> like merging qof back into the engine
16:00:00 <gjanssens> It's something we'd want to do near the end of the development cycle
16:00:00 <jralls> I'm for it, it makes me nuts, too.
16:00:08 <jralls> Why not now?
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16:00:44 <gjanssens> That's close enough to "the end of the development cycle" for me :D
16:01:05 <gjanssens> The major reason to do it late is to allow merging bugfixes from maint
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16:01:27 <gjanssens> But I don't expect much bufixing to happen in the qof library
16:01:29 <jralls> You probably noticed that my naming scheme for C++ modules in libqof aims in that direction. In fact the backend/engine transition is one from QOF to SQL.
16:02:00 <gjanssens> Yes and I'm quite pleased with that
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16:02:23 <gjanssens> Myself I would still like to get rid of the business directory as well
16:02:33 <gjanssens> The busines core is merged with all the rest
16:02:43 <gjanssens> There's only a register and gui directory left
16:02:56 <gjanssens> The register part should go with the other register code
16:03:08 <jralls> Do it. I was planning to ask you about it at some point.
16:03:09 <gjanssens> The gui part will need to be split up over gnome and gnome-utils
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16:03:37 <gjanssens> I started this some time ago but got stuck in some interdependency mess
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16:03:59 <jralls> Nah, while we're at it let's combine gnome and gnome-utils. There's no obvious reason for any particular file to be in one or the other.
16:04:20 <jralls> How, for example, is the main bleeping window a bleeping util?
16:04:51 <gjanssens> The directory names are misleading
16:05:32 <gjanssens> I found by tryal and error the separation has to do with other directories that sit in between the two
16:05:44 <gjanssens> It's a matter of dependency tree
16:06:03 <gjanssens> Let me check how it was again...
16:06:38 <gjanssens> Yes. Look in src/Makefile.am
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16:07:04 <gjanssens> gnome-utils holds everything that's needed by report, html, and register
16:07:25 <gjanssens> gnome continues after this as it depends on report, html and register
16:07:51 <jralls> Ah, so it should be gnome-part-1 and gnome-part-2.
16:07:59 <gjanssens> No doubt this can be untangled, but it's less straightforward as just merging gnome and gnome-utils
16:08:05 <gjanssens> Yes, something like that
16:08:54 <jralls> OK. Long term we should be cleaning up the classes to soften those dependencies. That will be easier as we use more C++.
16:09:00 <gjanssens> It can probably cleaned up by bringing *all* gnome related directories together, including report-gnome and register-gnome
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16:10:29 <gjanssens> Yes, at least that's reassuring - we still have years of fun ahead of us :)
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16:10:51 <gjanssens> Anyway, I have to leave
16:10:52 <jralls> I'm beginning to wonder if I'll live long enough... ;-)
16:11:03 <jralls> OK, ttyl.
16:11:15 <gjanssens> I do hope so (about living long enough)
16:11:28 <gjanssens> It was an inspiring conversation. Thanks!
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16:49:34 <jralls> warlord: Maybe it's time to ban gnomey. Is there a way to tell them they can come back when they fix their client?
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