2017-01-17 GnuCash IRC logs
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09:30:49 <gjanssens> warlord: there seems to be some odd issue with the wiki. I believe fell reported this before as well
09:31:13 <warlord> What issue?
09:31:18 <warlord> (I haven't seen any reports)
09:31:19 <gjanssens> David T. altered a page today, but his change doesn't appear on the Recently Changed page
09:31:33 <gjanssens> While my own changes made today do appear.
09:32:06 <gjanssens> These are David's changes: https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/index.php?title=Using_GnuCash&action=history
09:32:20 <gjanssens> Do you see this change on the Recently Changed page ?
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09:33:01 <warlord> Oh, that. I saw that behavior too but have no idea what causes it..
09:33:08 <warlord> ... or how to correct it.
09:33:14 <warlord> I dont see any errors in any logs.
09:33:26 <gjanssens> Ok. Not too important. I just thought I'd mention it
09:34:16 <warlord> Thanks.
09:34:48 <warlord> I'm in the process of configuring the new VM so when I finally finish that and migrate everything it'll hopefully fix this issue.
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10:03:45 <gjanssens> That would be great.
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13:25:03 <warlord> fell: I don't see anything in the logs, so I really have no way of tracking this down. HOWEVER, I'm in the process of building the new "code" vm which has newer software. SO... hopefully once we migrate it'll be fixed.
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13:26:02 <fell> NP, warlord. It was just a pointer.
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13:26:50 <warlord> *nods*
13:27:10 <warlord> I'm currently working on mediawiki on the new server. When I copy the data over for testing I'll take a look.
13:27:31 <warlord> I looked last time and saw the behavior, but I have no idea what causes it.
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14:19:56 <fell> Warlord, I am wondering, if we should add language support to the wiki.
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14:29:42 <jralls> fell: What do you have in mind?
14:32:09 <fell> like de.wikipedia/wiki/Konto links to en.wikipedia/Account
14:35:42 <fell> I would have some work to move /De/... to the right place, but we would have some benefit e.g. for FAQ etc. where we until now add "See also the probably more recent english page"
14:43:22 <jralls> I don't see that link. By "language support" do you mean one of the projects described at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_engineering?
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15:01:23 <warlord> fell: were there any pages changed yesterday or longer-ago that aren't showing up in the Recent Changes? (I'm working on the server server and loaded the backup from last night)
15:02:21 <fell> It is hard to say. I have only a few pages on my watch list.
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15:03:10 <fell> So I got a mail for davids change and did't see it in recent changes.
15:03:42 <warlord> Anything else? Right now the only changes I see in the past 7 days (as of last night) are 2 changes from you. Glossary, and Dcoumentation Update Instructions.
15:06:04 <fell> Geert was industrious today 9, which I see in recentchanges
15:08:32 <fell> so, yes, dependant of your last refresh. we see the same
15:09:40 <warlord> Okay.
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15:10:08 <warlord> Good news is I'm more than halfway through my CHANGES script.
15:10:19 <warlord> (I really should make it an actual script that I can run!)
15:12:22 <fell> Jralls, the links are in the left column "In other Languages"
15:15:24 <fell> and right, I believe I have the https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_Language_Extension_Bundle in Mind.
15:16:45 <fell> but /me is still reading ..
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15:51:29 <fell> jralls, I had https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Interlanguage_links in mind.
16:02:02 <fell> There are 2 approachs: a farm like <lang>.wikipedia.org or the translate extension with a flag like ?uselang=de
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16:03:54 <warlord> I like the farm approach but it requires changes to DNS to get it to work, which requires linas to make whatever changes we would need.
16:04:09 <warlord> ... and then I would need to update the wiki configuration
16:07:04 <fell> currently we have de:34, en, es:1, pt:1 pages
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16:18:53 <warlord> Ok...
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17:41:41 <jralls> warlord: Dr. Kirby just offered me $100 to implement quote generation with pass-through to the invoice and the ability to generate a pro-forma invoice in between.
17:50:26 <fell> jralls, did you add sunfish as ghostwriter to the wiki? ;-)
17:50:54 <jralls> fell: Not on purpose. I don't even know what a ghostwriter is.
17:50:59 <fell> His conmits do not show up in recent changes
17:52:50 <jralls> He shows up in the user list as having bot and edit.
17:52:58 <fell> ah, he is abot
17:53:00 <fell> a bot
17:53:40 <fell> I remove it
17:55:12 <jralls> fell: Other bots are Mechtilde and Goodvibes. My intent was that they're reliable so their edits don't need to be patrolled.
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17:56:25 <fell> Hm, I think bots should only be machines, which run checks.
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17:58:59 <jralls> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Bots talks about a bot flag, but doesn't say anything about how to set or clear it.
17:59:54 <jralls> Is there another way to get those three users to have autopatrol and editsemiprotected without making them admins?
18:01:21 <fell> yes
18:03:03 <fell> see Special:ListGroupRights
18:07:35 <fell> editor?
18:07:51 <jralls> Yeah, I see that Autoconfirmed users have editsemiprotected, but they don't have autopatrol. Only bots and Administrators have autopatrol.
18:08:48 <jralls> There is no "editor" group there.
18:09:34 <fell> In Special:ListUsers many have it
18:10:25 <fell> Perhaps the conversion while updating the software didn't happen.
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18:14:46 <jralls> Looking through the user list it appears that either one has a creation date or one is in the "editor" group. That implies that "editor" is a left-over from an earlier wiki.
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18:19:33 <fell> For instance, to create a patrollers group:
18:19:35 <fell> $wgGroupPermissions['patrollers']['patrol'] = true;
18:20:17 <jralls> That looks like something warlord would have to do.
18:20:32 <fell> yep.Perhaps this was our old editor group.
18:26:00 <jralls> Would that create a group that bureaucrats can assign users to?
18:26:25 <fell> Pages created by administrators, bots and autopatrollers are automatically marked as patrolled.
18:26:31 <fell> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Patrolled_edit
18:28:30 <jralls> But if we have an autopatrollers group I can't assign to it. Can you see it?
18:30:58 <fell> I fear, it is currently not created. we have to wait for warlord.
18:35:39 <fell> You can see the groups used by the Wikimedia Foundation at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_groups
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18:47:03 <fell> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:User_rights
19:01:20 <jralls> Right. So warlord, can you set that up when you migrate code to the new VM?
19:05:39 <fell> jralls, should we link the orphaned http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Project_and_Design_Documentation somewhere?
19:08:27 <jralls> It looks mostly like cstim's musings about where GnuCash might go given infinite resources. I'm inclined to delete it, but I think warlord and gjanssens should have a look and see what they think.
19:09:54 <jralls> Oh, I see the second half is a sort of feature status circa version 1.6. Ancient history.
19:11:28 <fell> The author Casimono seems to be some Carsten. the changes date all from 2014
19:16:51 <fell> Carsten Rinke says my email archive.
19:17:12 <jralls> Yeah, I'd just found the right spelling...
19:18:23 <jralls> IIRC he extracted the obsolete design docs from src/docs. The idea was that it would be more accessible on the wiki and we could remove it from the sources.
19:19:36 <jralls> I think we didn't link it to anything else because it's all horribly obsolete. Src/docs is still in the repo, too.
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19:28:42 <fell> IMHO we should clean up the repo too. I remember, when I spent hours to read outdated docs. The VCS still holds the history.
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20:10:58 <ajt> DataBase backend for NON business use ... the downsides to using a DB seem to focus on the business functions. Is it true to say that a DB is safe for the personal functions ? (Still fairly complicated, multi currency, stocks, shares, 1.6 MB xml file
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20:40:56 <warlord> fell, jralls --- If all I need to do is $wgGroupPermissions['patrollers']['patrol'] = true; I can do that on the current server as well as the new one. If I have to do more then it's probably only worth it on the new server.
20:41:06 <warlord> jralls: A whole $100. Neat!
20:42:04 <warlord> ajt: there *still* may be corner cases of data loss.. and data loading is going to be slower (gnucash loads all data into ram when it starts, and loading from SQL takes more time)
20:43:18 <fell> warlord, do you remember the meaning or rights of our former editor group?
20:45:19 <fell> If not, just add the patrollers. It might be the cleaner solution.
20:48:00 <jralls> warlord: I think we'd want "$wgGroupPermissions['autpatrollers']['autopatrol'] = true;". The Manual:User_rights page fell referred to above suggests creating companion pages to go with the group. It's not clear to me from the page whether creating the group that way makes it visible to "bureaucrats" for management.
20:49:30 <jralls> fell: I don't see any need to add patrollers. The current admins (maybe minus all the ones who haven't been around in many years) are the right group to handle that.
20:50:23 <jralls> It's the regular contributors who can be trusted not to do something dumb who can be autopatrolled so that an admin doesn't need to review their posts.
20:51:22 <ajt> Ok thanks, I'll stick to xml (attraction of DB was reporting)
20:56:35 <warlord> You can always Save As into SQL for that.
20:57:28 <fell> jralls: In Special:ListGroupRights are red links. That are the missing pages.
20:58:29 <jralls> Right. Is turning the links blue the only thing that creating the pages does for us?
20:58:50 <ajt> warlord: Ahhhhh ... I had not thought of that ... Great idea, thank you :)
20:59:18 <fell> Probably some comfort?
20:59:40 <jralls> I'm tough, I can take it! ;-)
21:01:41 <warlord> so what exactly do you want me to add? autopatroller? or patrollers?
21:03:09 <jralls> *I* want autopatroller so that I can put sunfish63, goodvibes, and Mechtilde in it.
21:05:07 <warlord> Okay, try now?
21:05:29 <warlord> I added: $wgGroupPermissions['autopatroller']['autopatrol'] = true;
21:07:30 <jralls> That worked. Yay! Thanks!
21:09:23 <warlord> Awesome. I'll migrate that to the new server too.
21:10:18 <jralls> So do you remember where the "editor" group came from and where it went?
21:11:12 <warlord> It probably came from a really old version, when we just used email auto-check and a 7-day timeout or something.
21:12:12 <warlord> I don't have anything in LocalSettings about an "editor" group.
21:12:19 <warlord> It might have come from an extension?
21:12:52 <jralls> Well, it's older than changing the registration method. We did that only last year.
21:13:20 <jralls> It's probably no longer a group; maybe there's a dangling link in the user records?
21:13:22 <warlord> Yes, the most recent change was this year.
21:13:37 <warlord> Could be. Is it causing any issues?
21:13:51 <jralls> Not really, just an odd artifact.
21:14:46 <jralls> AFAICT there aren't any rights associated with it, as one would expect from a dangling link. It doesn't even turn red or blue to indicate that there could be a page for it.
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21:18:08 <jralls> Dinner time. G'night, all.
21:18:52 <warlord> Ennjoy
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22:37:12 <warlord> 713/994
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22:45:48 <fell> With the MediaWiki:Group-<group-name>* pages you can define the designation of the group, the members and their page.
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