2016-03-24 GnuCash IRC logs

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01:51:55 <jscinoz> Hmm, configure runs fine, but building fails with a whole bunch of 'error: template with C linkage' errors
02:28:48 <mikee> jscinoz: Master or maint branch? Maint should build fine.
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02:53:34 <jscinoz> mikee: master, will try maint
02:54:03 <jscinoz> mikee: Nope, maint fails to build with a different error: make[5]: *** No rule to make target 'gnc-date.cpp', needed by 'gnc-date.lo'. Stop.
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03:20:02 <gjanssens> jscinoz: the complaint about gnc-date.cpp suggests your build directory has leftovers from a master build
03:21:02 <gjanssens> jscinoz: are you building into a separate build directory ?
03:21:32 <gjanssens> if so, delete it completely, run autogen.sh again in the source directory, then configure and make and such in a new build directory
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05:08:17 <warlord> jscinoz: thanks. Next time you can't get to the wiki can you provide more info, like "can't ping the server" or "I get xxx error"?
05:08:23 <warlord> "wiki is down" isn't sufficient to debug. ;)
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06:41:00 <dkcarlson> Using release 2.6.11 in Windows 7 I just ran across a transaction in my data file dated sometime in February with only one account "Orphan" and zero amount. Is this a bug?
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06:42:01 <dkcarlson> Actually it is Orphan-USD
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06:44:05 <dkcarlson> I am wondering why there is not another account to explain where this transaction came from
06:47:02 <warlord> Orphan implies the original account was deleted, or somehow got removed from this transaction split
06:47:20 <dkcarlson> this transaction does have a description that happens to be identical to another account name
06:48:16 <dkcarlson> how did it get saved incomplete without another account?
06:48:51 <warlord> If there is 0 value then, technically, it is balanced.
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06:51:42 <dkcarlson> Somehow, that does not seem to follow my understanding of double entry bookkeeping, and it also omits any trail of whatever else may be unbalanced
06:53:12 <warlord> It's not unbalanced.
06:53:26 <warlord> Balanced implies SUM(Debits,Credits) == 0.
06:53:29 <warlord> This is still true.
06:54:52 <dkcarlson> does that mean I could create an entry in a bank account with no amount and no transfer account. That would seem to be meaningless and confusing
06:55:39 <warlord> A transaction with no amount is meaningless.
06:55:47 <warlord> But yes, you could do that.
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06:57:33 <dkcarlson> Actually, I do that frequently to add notes, but I thought that they had to have another account, one which I created to collect notes in
06:58:14 <warlord> As you've seen, that's not required :)
06:59:58 <dkcarlson> I am speechless
07:19:47 <dkcarlson> perhaps this could be mentioned somewhere in the help manual
07:28:15 <dkcarlson> I just remembered another question. In Windows. if I am jumping around several different account tabs an I delete the current tab, the focus jumps back to the last visited tab. In a recent test case in Debian Jessie/Gnome, the focus just goes to the next adjacent tab instead of the last visited. Is this a known anomaly?
07:31:43 <dkcarlson> Could that be an artifact of the adwaita theme?
07:33:30 <warlord> I've not heard about it.
07:35:23 <dkcarlson> I haven't done enough research yet to decide whether to file a bug report
07:38:29 <dkcarlson> My motivation in trying Linux is to get around some of the long pauses in Windows. I hope the C++ infrastructure improvements will help too
07:39:47 <dkcarlson> My old pcs only have one or two cpus
07:42:03 <warlord> Unlikely the C++ changes will affect speed.
07:43:57 <dkcarlson> I can hope, I am still planning on when and how to upgrade my hardware collection, but it won't be tomorrow.
07:44:36 <dkcarlson> thanks
07:45:28 <warlord> What is keeping you on windows?
07:45:31 <warlord> What windows-only software are you using?
07:47:53 <dkcarlson> It is called a spouse. Theoretically, my bank my bank will only allow online access from computers running Windows (but not XP) or apple OSes, but I seem to get in through IceDove in Debian
07:50:44 <dkcarlson> I would probably need to at least be confidant about running windows programs in case the bank really gets serious or some other issue comes up
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07:53:17 <dkcarlson> They do have Apple and Android aps, but they are extremely limited in functionality
07:54:04 <warlord> Isn't it a Website?
07:57:32 <dkcarlson> yes, but they have added a note in the User Agreement that they will deny online access from Windows XP and they have a table of acceptable combinations of OSes and browsers, which ignores Linux.
07:58:44 <gjanssens> Most banks I work with ignore linux
08:00:06 <gjanssens> 3 out of 4 banks I work with I can access just fine from linux
08:01:00 <dkcarlson> They can detect a lot of things online that the general public is unaware of and they will not divulge details as the malware stakes are pretty high nowadays
08:03:21 <dkcarlson> this bank sometimes does out-of-band authentication, which tells me they are trying pretty hard to minimize their risk
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08:09:01 <dkcarlson> risk cannot be driven to zero, and the balance with convenience will always be a moving target tto
08:12:11 <dkcarlson> So I am still working on minimizing my Windows based activity without getting the spouse too upset
08:12:12 <warlord> dkcarlson: I've never met a bank that explicitly lists LInux as "supported". But I've also never met one where Firefox fails to work.
08:15:51 <gjanssens> warlord: here in Belgium banks usually allow linux access for personal accounts, but sometimes you can't get to it when you have a business account
08:16:10 <warlord> they actively block it?
08:16:18 <dkcarlson> I do not have a way to test whether they can actually detect XP and block it, but I have seen examples of web pages that do not work in one or more browsers, so they may be able to exploit something to get there
08:16:35 <gjanssens> No, they require a windows application as middleware
08:16:40 <gjanssens> No windows app, no access
08:18:41 <gjanssens> dkcarlson: I would expect they're not really blocking Windows XP itself, but require encryption methods not available for WinXP
08:18:44 <warlord> WEIRD
08:19:10 <gjanssens> Heh, indeed...
08:19:22 <gjanssens> For other banks we lose some convenience
08:19:38 <gjanssens> The use a hardware token which can be connected to a PC over USB to save some typing
08:20:03 <gjanssens> That requires a USB driver only available for Windows again
08:20:05 <gjanssens> (Not even of Apple)
08:20:59 <gjanssens> I can still work with that bank, but have to manually enter verification codes on the hardware token and in the bank webpage for all transactions
08:21:42 <gjanssens> Belgium is slow to really enter the digital age. The bank stuff is only one symptom of that
08:22:27 <dkcarlson> yes, but my oldest pcs cannot handle modern encryption either. Security will probably continue to be a moving target, and Belgium is certainly not alone there
08:22:33 <gjanssens> On the other hand each bank is tripping over their own feet in the race to get a tablet/smartphone app out
08:22:52 <gjanssens> I still don't trust these enough to use them.
08:23:01 <gjanssens> (The apps I mean)
08:24:28 <warlord> I wonder how many of them don't use HTTPS in the backend? ;)
08:27:36 <dkcarlson> Well, someone seems to have found a work-around for that San Bernadino IPhone security issue, so we just keep trying to get better
08:29:21 <dkcarlson> got to go. Bye
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12:27:15 <jralls> gjanssens: I see you created a consolidation bug for auto-completion/quickfill. Are you thinking of working on that or just consolidating?
12:27:41 <gjanssens> jralls: for now just consolidating
12:28:34 <gjanssens> I don't feel like spending energy on that until after the register rewrite
12:28:40 <gjanssens> Perhaps I should add that
12:29:41 <jralls> Making that clear would be wise, I think. Maybe we should have a register rewrite bug and make it a blocker for everything that should be addressed as part of the rewrite.
12:32:22 <gjanssens> Yes, a tracker bug for everything related to register2 would be useful
12:36:34 <jralls> I was thinking more broadly than just register2 per se. Some of the possible autocompletion ideas aren't really GUI things; for example, autocompletion should either ignore voided txns or unvoid them.
12:39:13 <jralls> Autocompletion also uses a bizarre copy mechanism where it converts the txn being copied to a Scheme object then calls a scheme routine on it to copy it into the target.
12:40:12 <gjanssens> Yes I remember.
12:40:35 <gjanssens> Once tried to get rid of the weird scheme copying but it turned out to be trickier than I thought
12:40:36 <jralls> The scheme code is in app-utils (I'm getting to hate just about everything in that subdir...) but the calls to it are buried in register/ledger-core. No doubt that's copied somewhere into a reg2 file.
12:42:04 <gjanssens> Good point about properly handling voided transactions.
12:42:22 <jralls> Yeah, I tried that too last week, using the Clipoard copy/paste. Didn't work, but I don't quite remember why. Once Transaction is in C++ and has a copy constructor it will be a one-liner.
12:42:22 <gjanssens> About the blocker bug I may have misunderstood you
12:44:06 <gjanssens> Shouldn't it be that all bugs we want to handle as part of the register rewrite be blockers for the register rewrite bug ?
12:44:21 <gjanssens> So we can't close that bug until the others are treated as well ?
12:44:38 <gjanssens> And looking forward to a C++ transaction object :)
12:46:48 <jralls> I had it in mind the other way around: The reg rewrite would block all of the others to indicate that we're deferring action on them to the rewrite. But I suppose one can look at it in either direction.
12:47:50 <jralls> Dosen't really matter, the idea is to have an easy way to see everything that needs to be addressed as part of the rewrite.
12:48:01 <gjanssens> Oh, right. That's the other way around indeed, and works as well.
12:49:12 * jralls is used to looking at things backwards...
12:49:46 <gjanssens> :)
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