2016-02-21 GnuCash IRC logs
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11:09:50 <BW> I'm trying to use on-line banking. In the setup wizard, after clicking on the User tab, gnucash crashes after clicking on Create User. Am I missing something?
11:11:26 <fell> Which version, OS, ...?
11:12:24 <BW> GnuCash 2.6.1, Linux Mint
11:13:08 <fell> 2.6.1 is over 2 years old. Yan you try to update?
11:15:09 <BW> I thought it was the most current. Linux is relatively new for me. So time for dumb question - how do I get to a more current version?
11:15:37 <fell> 2.6.11 is recent
11:16:36 <fell> In this thread we have another LinuxMint user trying to update: http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2016-February/064244.html
11:26:27 <fell> BW, in short add the GetDeb repo and update Gnucash with all dependencies.
11:28:06 <BW> Ok. Thanks.
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12:23:48 <warlord> fell: more wiki maint to do: I can still delete archived revsions (i.e., delete all references to 'deleted' pages). This will prevent them from being undeleted. Then I can purge additional accounts (currently there appear to be 23 unused accounts; I suspect there will be more after I purge)
12:26:01 <warlord> fell: let me know if you want me to do that.
12:26:41 <warlord> What i dont know is what will happen with blocked users.
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12:35:33 <jralls> warlord: We'd hope that purging the deleted pages would change the status of the blocked users into "never edited" so that they could be cleaned up based on that. Is there no other screen for filtering users?
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12:36:59 <warlord> These are cli scripts, not wiki page interfaces.. They seem to operate on the db directly. Rght now I can go delete the 23 existing "unused" accounts (which somehow increased from 16 as of friday)
12:37:47 <warlord> If I delete the archived revsions it will basically erase the archive table, which means anything that's been deleted will be purged; no way to undelete anything.
12:38:02 <warlord> Then I suspect there will be more "unused" accounts.
12:38:27 <warlord> Some of those may be currently-blocked users.
12:39:06 <jralls> Would deleting the archive mess up history on legitimate pages?
12:39:43 <warlord> I'm thinking I should delete these existing 23 users, then delete the archive, then compare the list of newly "unused" accounts to the list of blocked users.
12:40:39 <warlord> Possibly, but I don't know for sure.
12:41:28 <jralls> Then don't do it in an un-reversible way. We want to keep the history.
12:41:34 <warlord> I dont know if it deletes "deleted" revisions.
12:41:44 <warlord> or only deleted pages.
12:42:19 <warlord> According to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Manual:deleteArchivedRevisions.php it says:
12:42:30 <warlord> delete all the archived (hidden from public view) revisions
12:42:57 * jralls reads the page...
12:43:26 <warlord> So I think it only deletes content that isn't accessible. But I'm not sure about raw "reverted" changes.
12:47:18 <jralls> Following the link to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sysop_deleting_and_undeleting implies that only Sysops can actually delete pages. Rollbacks that admins can do are implied to be normal edits. That suggests that purging the archive will do less than you expect.
12:47:54 <warlord> Could be.
12:48:57 <warlord> BIAB
12:55:38 <jralls> Nope, a check of the deletion log (SpecialPages>Logs, change the first listbox item to Deletion Log) shows ~4000 pages deleted by admins. I don't see any deleted edits, so there can't be any affect on legitimate page history. Go for it.
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12:57:16 <somedude> Hello everyone and a good day.
12:57:56 <somedude> Question: Is it possible when using GnuCash to specify a user chosen directory, where an encrypted backup is stored? To sync across devices using a cloud storage service. Thanks!
13:07:47 <warlord> jralls: okay. i'll be sure to backup the database before i do.
13:08:13 <warlord> somedude: no; backups are stored where your main data file is stored.
13:08:30 <warlord> and gnucash doesn't do encryption. You could use something like encfs to encrypt the target directory
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13:26:09 <warlord> Well, purging those pages added 1565 users to purge..
13:26:36 <warlord> purging...
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13:30:10 <warlord> Purge done.
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13:30:40 <warlord> rechecking "blocked users" page...
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13:57:32 <jralls> Still a few blocked users, but the whole list is down to < 1000, a huge improvement.
14:07:36 <fell> Sounds good.
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14:33:34 <warlord> If we want to delete more users we can use the "Merge and delete users" function. c.f. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension%3aUser_Merge_and_Delete
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14:53:20 <jralls> Maybe if someone wants to go through and clear out the last few blocked accounts. A spot check suggests that everyone else remaining is legit and has made contributions.
14:55:52 <warlord> If there are 1000 blocked users still we might want to consider going through and deleting them, but I suspect it'll be a manual process.
14:56:00 <warlord> Gotta run again
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16:12:31 <jralls> No, no, not 1000 blocked users, < 1000 *total* users. It looks like there are much fewer than 100 blocked users left.
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17:04:42 <fell> jralls, the lists are dijunct.
17:04:55 <fell> disjunct
17:05:21 <jralls> What do you mean?
17:06:05 <fell> There are <1000 in Special%3AListUsers
17:06:58 <fell> and they do not contain that from Special:BlockList
17:08:30 <fell> Easy to compare if you sort Listusers descending by creationdate
17:10:23 <jralls> Special:BlockList looks like a log. The top item is the bogus "Samsung Printer Support" one that you blocked; it was removed in Derek's first iteration, before that it was near the top of the Special:Users page. If you look at Special:Users you'll see that some of them are marked (blocked); there are 38 in the first 500.
17:10:56 <fell> yep
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18:13:03 <warlord> jralls, fell -- got ya. There still seems to be a long list in Special:BlockList. Maybe of them appear to be "Autoblock"
18:15:36 <warlord> Clearly there are blocked users that made edits that were reversed . e.g. Always1234. We would need to delete his contributions and then we could delete the user account completely.
18:15:38 <fell> #nums are the associated channels used by the user blocked with the same timestamp
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18:19:28 <warlord> fell: I wonder if there's a way to clear up the list from users that were removed?
18:20:40 <fell> I just opened http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tylertrujillo5173 with the result 'Tylertrujillo5173“ ist nicht registriert." not registered
18:21:14 <warlord> Where did that link come from?
18:22:11 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Special:BlockList ~#6
18:22:33 <warlord> Go down 2 below that..
18:22:40 <warlord> You'll see a 'contribs' link.
18:23:35 <warlord> It looks like we haven't had a single attempt to register since I updated the wiki this weekend!
18:28:51 <warlord> Looks like there are 1500+ entries on the block list.
18:29:57 <warlord> (1596 according to the mysql table)
18:30:22 <warlord> 764 entries in the user list now... Down from over 20,000!
18:37:12 <fell> Always made 2 minor changes - inserting newlines - in a different page before hijacking donation.
18:38:30 <fell> The next with contribs enabled 'Dan Kruger' has none visible
18:40:16 <fell> Oh, wrong place
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18:42:05 <fell> It was an insertion in Windows/Old Notes, reverted by jralls
18:54:02 <warlord> Right; so I wonder if there's a better way to deal with this last users?
18:55:17 <fell> From my POV we got a good reduction.
18:56:22 <warlord> Okay.
18:56:34 <warlord> If you dont feel we need more cleanup then I'll leave it as it is.
18:57:06 <fell> Perhaps jralls is more radical?
18:58:50 <jralls> Not really. Like I said, there are somewhere around 80 blocked users left. If someone's so motivated they can be deleted by hand. I'm not motivated.
18:58:51 <warlord> I can wait until I hear more input.
18:59:24 <warlord> Okay, sounds like status-quo is a good place.
19:00:30 <fell> Then I will try to create a test user...
19:01:01 <jralls> The block objects are I guess separate from the users, and I suppose the ones that refer to non-existent users could be cleaned up. A SQL query could do that pretty easily if there's no mediawiki tool that does it.
19:03:07 <warlord> I haven't found a mediawiki tool to clean that up. It probably doesn't matter.
19:10:02 <fell> If I start as a simple, but interested reader im am missing some "invitation" at a prominent place.
19:11:21 <warlord> fell: ???
19:11:32 <fell> Something like "About this wiki" explaining the policy, in the left column.
19:11:36 <warlord> Like the "Request Account" link on the top-right of every page?
19:11:43 <warlord> Right next to the "Login" link?
19:17:33 <fell> Terms of Service is still missing.
19:18:48 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash:Terms_of_Service is the full path
19:19:08 <fell> Can we localize, too?
19:19:13 <fell> it
19:20:03 <fell> The good news: not logged in, I can not create it
19:21:40 <warlord> Yes, that page still needs to be created.
19:21:51 <warlord> I don't know if it can be localized.
19:22:10 <fell> About the captcha:
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19:24:36 <fell> the text asks for a sum, but I get a foto with a house number not easy to read (really small for old eyes)
19:25:44 <fell> ~10s after clicking the play buttons, a window opens, playing the number in english.
19:26:46 <warlord> I'm sure there's a special page setting to update that text.
19:27:14 <fell> So I read capcha help, from there I can see the list of admins
19:27:56 <warlord> ??
19:28:10 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Special:Captcha/help
19:29:49 <warlord> Hmm, and you can get to that list without being logged in? Okay...
19:30:20 <warlord> Hmm, who is Jesse Weinstein?
19:32:41 <fell> I don't know. Created snd contributing in 2010. You could ask cstim or jsled.
19:33:28 <fell> Nishmu is also unknown to me.
19:35:32 <jralls> Nishmu's another drive-by contributor with admin privs.
19:35:38 <fell> But for a person unable to solve the capcha, the list is useless as it has no way to contact one of them.
19:40:09 <fell> IMHO we should add links to IRC and probably mailto:Buraucrats there?
19:41:33 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash:About could get improvements.
19:42:00 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash:Privacy_policy does not exist
19:42:20 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash:General_disclaimer dito
19:47:26 <fell> https://support.google.com/recaptcha/?hl=de tells me, it is currently not available in de. There is also a version 2 available.
19:48:59 <fell> Ok, I sent a request now.
19:50:02 <fell> confirmed my email
19:51:32 <fell> Can one of you now look at http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Special:ConfirmAccounts
19:58:57 <fell> Logged in as Bureaucrat, http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Special:ConfirmAccounts is translated.
20:01:27 <fell> What is the difference between open and waiting requests?
20:07:33 <warlord> fell: presume "tester" is you?
20:07:51 <warlord> fell: No, I would rather not advertize the mailing list.
20:08:07 <fell> Yes
20:09:44 <warlord> I see open, held, and recently rejected. Where do you see "waiting"?
20:10:15 <warlord> held is a status where you can look at a request, possibly ask for more information, and "hold" the request for later (or for another admin)
20:10:48 <fell> ok
20:11:20 * warlord is looking fdor the system message containing 'sum'
20:11:20 <warlord> for
20:11:57 <warlord> Aha.. captcha-addurl
20:13:25 <warlord> And captcha-badlogin, and captcha-create, and captcha-createaccount,.. oh, and captcha-edit and captcha-sendmail
20:13:41 <warlord> So basically, every captcha command. Maybe the plugin needs an update?
20:16:35 <fell> There is a version 2 out, but I did not read further.
20:17:14 <warlord> That extension is included in the mediawiki rpm, so a bit hard to update.
20:18:22 <fell> localized email templates would be fine, too.
20:19:41 <warlord> We could change it via http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllMessages .. or I could manually edit the .json file
20:24:25 <fell> Funny, User talk:Tester is in german (Because the bureaucrat Fell has lang de or the preference of firefox was queried?)
20:25:54 <warlord> Did you accept the user?
20:27:20 <warlord> Interesting; it's in german for me, too
20:28:07 <warlord> I dont know why.... Or perhaps the user Tester was queried?
20:29:37 <warlord> We can test this: if you go into the rejected and re-open TestUser and accept it... We can see what happens on the user page
20:30:03 <fell> Tester didn't enter his language preference, only his firefox could be asked. OTOH it might derive from the confirming bureaucrats default language.
20:30:34 <fell> OK
20:30:53 <warlord> Approving TestUser will tell us that. ;)
20:31:09 <warlord> (Then I can delete those users)
20:32:40 <warlord> Uh oh --- Your Tester account isn't "Unused"
20:33:25 <warlord> Maybe we shouldn't have it auto-create the User talk pages?
20:35:37 <fell> It had a nice welcome message :-)
20:38:02 <warlord> Looks like the User talk page is based on the approver's language.
20:38:08 <warlord> We should still probably turn that off.
20:41:48 <fell> Nice feature to introduce the usage of the user talk page and a broken link to "First steps" in mediawikis help, but too much overjead for us this weekend.
20:44:20 <fell> So, turn it off.
20:49:33 <fell> I would like to test, if Tester can disable his account now.
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21:03:21 <fell> Warlord, you got a mail.
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21:05:51 <warlord> Okay, user page and talk pages turned off.
21:06:25 <warlord> Got the email.
21:06:37 <warlord> So, now how do we delete Tester and TestUser?
21:07:18 <warlord> Do you object if I delete them?
21:08:18 <warlord> I'm trying to delete TestUser right now.
21:10:58 <warlord> Ah, great, it deleted the talk and user pages.
21:11:05 <warlord> Shall I delete your Tester account, too?
21:13:51 <fell> I found no way to delete it as tester self, so go for it.
21:14:37 <warlord> Done. You'll receive an email saying the user page was deleted.
21:16:18 <fell> Got the notification saying GnuCash page User talk:Tester has been deleted
21:16:54 <warlord> The user is gone.
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21:17:56 <warlord> You can delete it (as Admin) via Special:UserMerge --- put the account to delete into "Old user", select the "delete old user" checkbox, then click on Merge User, wait for it to autofill Anonymous, then click Merge again. Boom, bye bye user.
21:18:14 <warlord> Do you want to test-create one more user to make sure the user/talk pages don't get created?
21:18:52 <fell> OK
21:22:30 <fell> Now I took a filler text
21:34:08 <fell> I used the name Tester again and got no user page
21:34:18 <warlord> Yay
21:34:25 <warlord> And no user talk page?
21:35:06 <fell> Both have the note: This page has been deleted. ...
21:36:11 <fell> But I thought, the Text from the application should be on the user page?
21:37:52 <warlord> I turned that off too
21:39:17 <fell> Hm, IMHO we should keep the user page.
21:39:39 <warlord> Okay -- I can turn that back on.
21:40:02 <warlord> Done
21:40:57 <fell> can you remove Tester, too?
21:41:46 <warlord> Done.
21:49:23 <fell> IMHO http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/User:Tester looks fine
21:51:17 <fell> The messages I got, seem to show UCT (as fell is using or is it the default?)
21:51:46 <warlord> UCT?
21:52:02 <warlord> Oh, time...
21:52:10 <warlord> I think the server is set up for that.
21:53:45 <warlord> Oh, probably because YOU are configured for that. I see local time
21:55:13 <fell> Reading "This confirmation code will expire at 02:42, 23 March 2016." I was thinking that is a range of 26 hours, whicht TZ please?
21:56:51 <warlord> That is probably UTC
21:57:06 <warlord> It is currently 2:56
21:57:08 <warlord> (UTC)
22:00:34 <fell> But Fell was not involved in email confirmation, only Tester.
22:01:54 <fell> Ok, usually this details are not important.
22:04:57 <warlord> It's a 24-hour window to confirm.
22:05:07 <warlord> So, shall I delete Tester again?
22:05:43 <fell> Also only for the logs, User_talk:Tester still shows the delete log of it ancestor
22:05:58 <warlord> I can clean that up, I think.
22:06:35 <warlord> That should be cleaned up, now
22:06:48 <fell> you can try it in your next delete now
22:07:02 <fell> I logged out
22:07:55 <warlord> Okay, Tester deleted. Again. :)
22:08:08 <warlord> And cleaned up.
22:08:45 <warlord> Er, okay, maybe not cleaned up...
22:09:39 <warlord> Not sure how to remove those deletion/move logs.
22:12:08 <fell> Another note: the mails To: have "From: MediaWiki Mail <webmaster@gnucash.org>" and "Return-Path: <apache@code.gnucash.org>"
22:13:00 <fell> I am not shure if you intended the use of Mediawiki and apache
22:13:21 <warlord> I have no idea how to control that.
22:14:05 <warlord> Both addresses get back to me, so ...
22:14:17 <warlord> It's really not a big deal.
22:14:47 <warlord> And damnit -- you just advertized the list in the IRC logs!!
22:15:28 <fell> Oh, sorry
22:16:23