2015-11-05 GnuCash IRC logs
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12:20:58 <ThomasKeller> I have "Expenses" and a sub-account "Goceries"
12:21:13 <ThomasKeller> I usually buy groceries in my base currency (CHF)
12:21:51 <ThomasKeller> and the account "Groceries" is in CHF
12:21:55 <ThomasKeller> but lets say I buy groceries in Germany and pay with Euros
12:22:15 <ThomasKeller> Do I have to create a new account denominated in Euros ?
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12:26:12 <jralls> codesmythe: Is bug 757616 you?
12:30:23 <jralls> ThomasKeller: Not necessarily. If you have a EUR account that you're paying from and you create a transaction for groceries to your CHF expense account, GnuCash will pop up the Transfer Dialog to collect an exchange rate. This has been discussed a couple of times recently on gnucash-user.
12:31:40 <codesmythe> jralls: yep.
12:31:51 <jralls> ThomasKeller: OTOH, many of us who travel let our credit card suppliers deal with the exchange rates and just use the home-currency (CHF in your case) amount on the CC bill for both ends of the transaction.
12:32:38 <jralls> codesmythe: Ah. Then I won't repeat my comment there.
12:33:32 <warlord> ThomasKeller: it depends... see what jralls said
12:33:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo warlord warlord
12:34:00 <warlord> @op gncbot
12:34:00 <gncbot> warlord: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
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12:34:57 <ThomasKeller> jralls: is gnucash-user a better place to ask these type of questions ?
12:35:04 <jralls> ThomasKeller: I can imagine circumstances where you might want to have two sets of expense accounts, for example if you maintain housekeeping in two countries and so need to pay taxes in both.
12:36:19 <jralls> ThonmasKeller: In general, anything that requires more than a couple of sentences to explain works better in the mailing list. You also get the benefit of a mush wider base of contributors there, and probably better advice.
12:41:24 <ThomasKeller> I will subscribe to gnucash-user as well, thanks for the suggestion
12:41:36 <ThomasKeller> one more thing:
12:42:04 <ThomasKeller> when I click on one of my accounts, it opens in new window
12:42:43 <ThomasKeller> at the bottom, I can see the balance, ie. "present" "future" cleared" "reconciled"
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12:43:07 <ThomasKeller> and the numbers are nicely colored
12:43:22 <ThomasKeller> black for positive, red for negative
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12:43:39 <ThomasKeller> which makes it more convenient
12:43:45 <ThomasKeller> and user friendly
12:44:07 <ThomasKeller> but the main window does not use colors
12:44:11 <ThomasKeller> everything is white
12:44:38 <ThomasKeller> i.e. "Grand Total" "Net Assets" "Profits"
12:44:53 <ThomasKeller> is there any way to make those figures colored as well ?
12:45:10 <ThomasKeller> or do I have to submit feature request for that ?
12:48:04 <jralls> ThomasKeller: AFAIK there's no option to color the Accounts page summary bar. There may well be an enhancement request for it already, so be sure to search BZ before submitting your own.
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13:41:25 <ThomasKeller> to hide the toolbar on the Accounts Page, I can go to "View" and unselect "Toolbar"
13:41:54 <ThomasKeller> that works OK, and gnucash remembers that next time I start it
13:41:59 <ThomasKeller> but
13:42:21 <ThomasKeller> when i open individual account (in new window) and hide the toolbar
13:42:32 <ThomasKeller> it will re-appear nest time I open that account
13:42:52 <ThomasKeller> how can I hide the toolbar forever ?
13:44:22 <MechtiIde> Hello
13:44:29 <MechtiIde> I did a small PR
13:44:47 <MechtiIde> to get the German PDF in paper format A4 instead of USLetter
13:45:15 <MechtiIde> I could build pdf and mobi successfully
13:46:02 <jralls> MechtiIde: OK, I'll try it after I finish this edit cycle.
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13:46:26 <MechtiIde> ok
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14:00:59 <P-G> I'm interested in using GnuCash but I'm not sure how the Android app syncs with the desktop program. Is the program designed to be run as a server?
14:01:55 <warlord> P-G: no. You either need to export your data from android and import it; or you use an online system like google drive or dropbox to share your data file..
14:02:08 <warlord> (and be sure only one copy is "open" at a time)
14:02:27 <P-G> Can I use my own file server?
14:02:38 * P-G doesn't like clouds.
14:03:12 <warlord> um, assuming you can do that with android, sure.
14:03:33 <P-G> Well, how does the program sync? LDAP?
14:04:19 <warlord> no. like I said, you can either export the changes from android and import into desktop, or you can share your data file via a shared network file server.
14:04:45 <P-G> Right, how do I share via a shared network file server?
14:04:59 <P-G> Exporting full database is not really an option.
14:05:11 <warlord> umm.. that's exactly what it means..
14:05:31 <warlord> why is it not an opton?
14:05:33 <P-G> So you export the full database, transfer that as a file, then import it to the other hosts?
14:05:34 <warlord> option?
14:06:03 <warlord> No..... what part of what I've said is confusing?
14:06:36 <warlord> Lke, what part of "share the data file via a shared network file server" is so confusing here?
14:06:48 <P-G> The part where I need to specify how to connect to it.
14:06:56 <P-G> Where is that option in the desktop client?
14:07:03 <warlord> Flie -> OPen
14:08:11 <P-G> Ok so it imports the full database? Not each entry?
14:08:35 <warlord> It's SHARING THE DATA FILE
14:08:44 <P-G> I get it. Calm down. :(
14:08:51 <P-G> Is there a synchronous option?
14:08:56 <warlord> No
14:09:02 <warlord> Gnucash is not multi-user
14:09:14 <P-G> Well, one user multiple hosts.
14:09:19 <warlord> Same thing
14:09:31 <P-G> I guess it should be ok if the file I/O can be automated?
14:10:00 <warlord> You just need to make sure you only run one at a time.
14:10:23 <warlord> That's the point with the shared file service like google drive or dropbox -- it *IS* automated
14:10:51 <P-G> Oh, so you just open the file from the remote server?
14:11:01 <warlord> on desktop, yes
14:11:13 <warlord> (I admit I'm not 100% sure how the android side works)
14:11:21 <P-G> Hm.
14:11:52 <P-G> Ok, well, if I can automate export on program exit that should be ok. I can automate download/upload as an external script.
14:12:07 <P-G> There was something about database integration though, right?
14:12:15 <P-G> That would have to be synchronous.
14:12:35 <warlord> If you use the shared datafile method there is no "integration"
14:13:17 <warlord> You open file version T0 on desktop, then save at file T1 & exit.. Then you open T1 on Android, work with it, save it as T2 and exit.. Then you open T2 on Desktop...
14:13:24 <warlord> There is no "integration" here..
14:13:35 <P-G> Yeah, but there is a database method?
14:13:58 <warlord> But if you have T1 open on desktop and then store T2 via Android, and then "save" from desktop it will overwrite
14:14:13 <warlord> There is, on the desktop, but then you cannot use the datafile sharing method with android.
14:14:44 <P-G> Ok. And the Android app doesn't support the database service?
14:14:53 <warlord> Correct
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14:15:15 <P-G> Is that a work in progress or not really a concern?
14:17:41 <warlord> AFAIK there is no plan to make the android system connect to the gnucash database backend.
14:18:44 <P-G> Huh. Well, I guess building that would be easier than building my own app. :p
14:19:06 <P-G> But the database server integration is not quite reliable yet on the desktop client?
14:20:58 <warlord> There are still data-loss corner cases that pop up here and there.
14:21:46 <P-G> What kind of cases? If I'm backing up the database periodically, would that be enough to consider it safe?
14:22:09 <warlord> no.
14:22:19 <warlord> it's cases where the data never gets saved into the db
14:22:22 <P-G> Or is there an option to check the database transactions against the datafile and keep the two in parity?
14:22:29 <P-G> Ugh.
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14:23:01 <warlord> this is why I (and many others) suggest not using the database backend and stick with XML
14:23:22 <P-G> Yeah, not worth the risk. I really do want database service eventually though.
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14:23:30 <warlord> it's on the list
14:23:51 <warlord> as is multiuser, eventually
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14:24:12 <P-G> Ok, cool. In the mean time, can export/import be automated?
14:24:45 <P-G> Or I guess it doesn't matter if you're referencing the same file.
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14:29:13 <P-G> If the program is referencing the datafile directly on an external server, is the network communication encrypted?
14:32:06 <gjanssens> P-G: that depends on how your network connection is set up
14:32:24 <gjanssens> GnuCash is not aware of network connections
14:32:36 <gjanssens> Or are you talking about database connections ?
14:32:40 <P-G> Yeah, I'm only seeing options to reference local storage.
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14:32:58 <P-G> No, I mean the datafile method. You wanted to reference the same file from both clients, right?
14:33:13 <P-G> So map the server as a local drive?
14:33:25 <gjanssens> Ok. On Windows ?
14:33:40 <P-G> Or Android or Linux. I'm on Windows and Android at the moment.
14:33:50 <gjanssens> Ah.
14:34:12 <gjanssens> It all depends on the network protocol you use to map the server as a local drive.
14:34:15 <P-G> Am I supposed to reference the same file from both clients or somehow automate export/import with program launch/quit?
14:34:24 <P-G> Ok, so I do map it.
14:34:39 <gjanssens> That's indeed one option.
14:34:54 <P-G> A good option? I don't normally do that on my phone. :p
14:34:58 <gjanssens> The other would be to sync using something like Dropbox or Owncloud or google drive
14:35:18 <P-G> Those probably function basically the same way?
14:35:26 <gjanssens> Yes
14:35:38 <P-G> Ok then I'd rather use my own server.
14:35:43 <P-G> What protocol though...
14:36:04 <P-G> NFS is normal for drive mapping but it's not a reliable connection and security is a consideration.
14:36:13 <gjanssens> sshfs ?
14:36:21 <gjanssens> Don't know if that exists on Windows though
14:36:42 <gjanssens> Perhaps you can set it up on Windows using Putty
14:36:53 <P-G> Yeah, I've never heard of it. Does it exist on Android?
14:37:10 <P-G> I mean, it's basically SSH with automatic mounting and unmounting?
14:37:20 <gjanssens> Yep
14:37:47 <gjanssens> With "not a reliable connection", do you mean it frequently breaks ?
14:38:00 <P-G> I may be able to get the Android client to reference a file manager application with SSH support.
14:38:07 <P-G> No, it's a phone, lol.
14:38:12 <gjanssens> If so, I'm not sure working with a remote file directly over such a connection would be a good idea
14:38:28 <P-G> It would only be referenced for import and export, right?
14:38:34 <gjanssens> So reliable mostly means I don't trust who is listening ?
14:38:55 <P-G> Well, that and it's a wireless connection. I might be underground or something.
14:39:07 * gjanssens missed the beginning of this conversation...
14:39:18 <gjanssens> Hang on, I'll go and read the log history...
14:39:22 <P-G> It's ok, you came in at a good time I think.
14:40:05 <P-G> I've got to go in about ten minutes by the way.
14:41:24 <P-G> Basically I'm trying to figure out how to sync the desktop and mobile clients.
14:41:29 <gjanssens> Ok, caught up with the original conversation
14:41:46 <gjanssens> What I would do in your case since you have your own server: set up owncloud on it and use that to sync your datafile between your PC and Android phone
14:41:58 <gjanssens> There is a decent client for both
14:42:31 <gjanssens> Probably much easier (and automatic) than mounting server shares on your phone
14:42:48 <P-G> Eh, I prefer simpler solutions. :(
14:42:56 <P-G> Even if they give me hell.
14:43:01 * P-G is a masochist.
14:43:07 <gjanssens> Owncloud runs as a webservice, so you get the apache security built-in
14:43:18 <gjanssens> I'm not sure why you think that's a complex solution ?
14:43:31 <gjanssens> It's tailored much more towards how phones work
14:43:35 <P-G> I've never actually heard anything good about Apache's security, lol.
14:43:42 <P-G> Phones and web servers are complicated.
14:44:03 <gjanssens> Re apache security - then go for nginx or lighthttpd if you prefer
14:44:06 <P-G> I would run a web service if I could use that instead of an Android app.
14:44:32 <P-G> Might be simpler for UI maintenance too, but that's not really my call.
14:44:48 <gjanssens> Well, you're free to go with what you like
14:44:59 <P-G> GnuCash doesn't have a server function, right?
14:45:13 <gjanssens> You'll have to research on which network file systems are available for android then
14:45:13 <P-G> Like SSH sync of XML file?
14:45:32 <gjanssens> No. GnuCash is an accounting application, not a webservice :)
14:45:44 <P-G> No web, just SSH. :p
14:45:53 <P-G> I understand though.
14:46:10 <P-G> I may be able to automate SSH mounting from a file managment app. I will look into that for now.
14:46:26 <P-G> Any timeline on the database integration though?
14:46:46 <P-G> That's what I was looking for originally when I found GnuCash.
14:48:03 <gjanssens> No better timeline than somewhere after the c++ conversion which is currently ongoing, sorry
14:48:29 <gjanssens> It's definitely part of the plan, but it has to wait for the c++ work to avoid double work
14:48:47 <P-G> Yeah, I didn't realise that was happening.
14:48:53 <P-G> Hm.
14:49:38 <P-G> Well, how about an external shell script to sync the datafile on program close?
14:49:47 <P-G> That seems like the simplest option.
14:50:59 <P-G> Something like, detectecting modifications to the datafile then syncing and confirming with checksum before close?
14:51:14 <P-G> Checking most recent version by file access time to prevent overwrite?
14:51:44 <P-G> Could also detect program crash based on not detecting closure after file modification?
14:52:14 <P-G> That would alert in case of external modification to file as well.
14:53:23 <gjanssens> Sure, if scripting is your skill, that can be done
14:53:53 <P-G> Not really my skill, lol, but that should be like 30 lines.
14:54:13 <P-G> Easier than figuring out how cloud services work.
14:54:19 <P-G> >Complicated stuff.
14:55:11 <P-G> I've got to go now but I'll idle for a while in case anyone else wants to chip in. Thanks for your help, Gjanssens and Warlord.
14:55:28 <gjanssens> You're welcome
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15:05:14 <P-G> away away
15:05:29 <warlord> :)
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18:27:45 <Simon> warlord: when I open the stock account it's still showing me the price in GBP, will that be because the other side of the split is a GBP account?
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19:55:35 <warlord> Simon: yes
19:55:46 <warlord> And also because that's how you entered the transaction.
19:55:59 <warlord> Is the stock not denoted in GBP?
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