2015-09-11 GnuCash IRC logs
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04:32:44 <JoTraGo> GnuCash 2.6.7 Linux - Customer & Vendor Payments:- If I make a generic payment of an amount which does not match any invoice(s) to a vendor or customer account, Gnucash is supposed to apply the payment to oldest invoices first. It correctly adjusts the outstanding total balance, but it does not treat any of the invoices which may have been covered by the payment as paid. Thus they still show up in the Bills Due Applet. In the Customer Report, although
04:32:44 <JoTraGo> the total balance is correct the amounts for the "unpaid" invoices still show up in the "Days Outstanding" Columns. Is this the expected behaviour? I would have expected the oldest invoices, that are fully covered by the payment to be considered as paid, and therefore NOT show up in Bills Due & Days Outstanding. Am I doing something wrong or missing some part of the transaction process?
04:36:20 <JoTraGo> GnuCash 2.6.7 Linux - Credit Notes:- In similar vein to the Payment issue, If I generate Credit Notes for Invoices in an account, the total balance for the account is adjusted, but Gnucash seems to treat the related invoices as if they are still outstanding, and the amounts of those invoices still show up in "Days Outstanding" or "Bills Due". How can I process a credit note so that the balance of the associated invoice is considered as paid / covered /
04:36:20 <JoTraGo> no longer due or outstanding?
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09:40:47 <warlord> JoTraGo: How are you adding the payment? I believe in 2.6.7 you need to specifically mark the invoices you want paid.
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10:50:17 <JoTraGo> Warlord, Sorry for delay, got involved in other stuff.
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10:50:56 <warlord> JoTraGo: no worries
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10:52:16 <JoTraGo> I add the payment using the Payment wizard but do not select any invoices, because the amounts dont match. EG there are say 3 invoices for $200 each, I receive a payment of $300. I post that without selecting any invoices, expecting the oldest one to be considered paid and the next one half paid.
10:54:27 <warlord> JoTraGo: in your Edit -> Preferences, have you selected the preference to auto-post invoices? (I think by default it is off)
11:03:12 <JoTraGo> Are you referring to Prevs > Business > Invoices & / or Bills > "Process Payments on Posting" They are not checked Hmmmm
11:03:37 <warlord> I think so. Geert isn't here to verify.
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11:04:44 <JoTraGo> Yes I think that is it. I'm checking the help and the screen shots show "Auto Pay" looks like just a filed name change
11:05:07 <JoTraGo> So this is looking like the problem. I wasn't aware that it had to be turned on.
11:05:50 <JoTraGo> In the process of solving a previous issue in discussion with Geert, he mentioned that GC should automatically apply payments,
11:07:37 <JoTraGo> So now the question is, how do I deal with the old invoices that have not been treated as paid even though the money is in the bank and the account balances are correct? Is there a way of just marking them "Paid" without processing a transaction?
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11:10:15 <JoTraGo> I've just noticed the little pop up help for those prefs, it also mentions processing credit notes, so I think this is answering both my issues.
11:10:49 <warlord> you will need to manually apply the payment transactions.
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11:12:43 <JoTraGo> So that would be by selecting the payment in the bank account and doing the "Assign as Payment"
11:14:19 <warlord> yes
11:19:42 <JoTraGo> OK Great, I'll make a test copy and try that out.
11:21:58 <JoTraGo> The other scenario where it is important that this works is where I have customers who pay me a retainer, so sometimes there is a payment but no invoices, then some invoices occur that would be covered by the pre-payment, then maybe some more invoices that exceed the pre-payment for which an additional payment will be received at a future date.
11:23:30 <warlord> Yes, you want to auto-pay turned on for that, too.
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11:45:26 <JoTraGo> Warlord. Aha! I see this working now. Cleaning up my Retainer scenario I have the Lot Viewer Open on a Large invoice and I can see the allocations happening as I go through the retainer "Pre-Payments" and allocating them to the invoices.
11:47:53 <JoTraGo> So If my customer report shows say $20000 outstanding in 91+ days, how can I find the invoices to which that amount refers?
11:51:50 <warlord> JoTraGo: Um, the Lot Viewer, perhaps? Or via the Process Payment -- it should only list unpaid invoices.
11:54:50 <JoTraGo> Yes both of those. I've pulled the customer report, using that to identify that customers invoices, I can then go through them in the lot viewer and check the splits to see what's what. I think this method will allow me to clean up.
11:55:36 <JoTraGo> So when entering a Credit Note, should it them be allocated to its invoice as if it was a payment to cancel out the amount of the invoice?
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11:56:40 <warlord> Yes
12:13:20 <JoTraGo> So how do you do that?
12:15:21 <warlord> Same way
12:19:09 <JoTraGo> But a credit not doesn't have a transaction in a bank account from which to "Assign Payment" it exists income>Sales but the Assign Payment has no effect
12:32:18 <kimmo> I wish there was a way to keep books on "personal" and "family" finances in the same book, but with different visibility
12:34:37 <warlord> JoTraGo: do it from the AR account
12:42:31 <JoTraGo> That only seems to works for AR transactions with a split in a bank account. My Credit Note has splits in Income:Sales & Assets:AR Perhaps I should mention that the CR was created to "Erase" an erroneous invoice, no actual money changed hands
12:43:01 <warlord> JoTraGo: You should still be able to apply the payment.
12:43:18 <warlord> Are you SURE the context menu doesn't work from AR?
12:45:03 <JoTraGo> The context menu is there with the Assign Payment option, but when selected nothing happens, the Payment Dialog does not come up. but if I select a transaction like a payment with a split in a bank account then the Payment dialog comes up.
12:45:38 <warlord> Unfortunately geert whote this code and he's not here
12:46:46 <JoTraGo> No Problem, I am on my way out now in any case. I'll have to take it up again later. I'll try and pick an occasion when geert is on line.
12:47:07 <JoTraGo> Thanks for your tips so far, they have certainly got me pointed in the right direction. Tks
12:48:12 <warlord> I know there is a way to do it...
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13:34:00 <spradlim> I have read a little bit online, but I don't know if the docs are dated. Can gnucash cash have multiple users with sql backend? Can one user have readonly access while other has write? Does it use sql transactions?
13:34:55 <warlord> No, gnucash is not multi-user.
13:35:34 <warlord> you *may* be able to have a second read-only user.. but.... if they click the wrong buttons they may destroy your work... and they wont see any updates that happen after they start.
13:35:45 <spradlim> Not even for just viewing? I was thinking I could grant a SQL user as readonly and have other people connect as that user
13:35:56 <spradlim> warload: thanks
13:37:11 <warlord> I dont know if gnucash will really handle that properly.
13:37:25 <warlord> but regardless, it definitely wont see any updates after startup.
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15:05:18 <MarkMynsted> What account do I need to make for a small business to show a source of services income. Basically the customer pays for the service, the money comes from where (what account) before it ends up in a checking or savings type account?
15:05:44 <MarkMynsted> oops, ? at the end of both of those sentences please
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15:17:39 <warlord> MarkMynsted: Income
15:17:50 <warlord> Maybe Income:Sales?
15:24:28 <MarkMynsted> maybe I simply need to create a new account under "Income" called "services". Then when I import transactions from my bank I need to create an entry in that Income:services account for each payment showing in my bank journal?
15:28:38 <warlord> That's one approach
15:28:58 <MarkMynsted> Also I see an update for "finance quote". The docs say "http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash can update your price database by fetching quotes online via the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl module http://finance-quote.sourceforge.net/. " What price database, as in price for what?
15:29:06 <warlord> But yes, every debit into your checking account (from a customer) would come from an Income account.
15:29:45 <MarkMynsted> hmm. I hope I can fix this.
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15:34:15 <MarkMynsted> It is strange still for me to see an increase in checking account as a "debit"
15:34:59 <warlord> you've been brainwashed by the banks to think from their side, not yours
15:35:01 <MarkMynsted> at least on the checking it is labeled as Deposit/Withdraw
15:35:17 <MarkMynsted> it seems so.
15:35:30 <warlord> keep in mind that to the bank your account is a liability!
15:36:25 <MarkMynsted> I started watching some financial accounting videos. This stuff seems unnecessarily complicated for a small business. Example: I am not going to audit the number and value of pencils consumed, etc.
15:36:57 <warlord> heh
15:37:15 <warlord> yeah, i just consider that an expense; i dont keep "office supply inventory"
15:37:25 <MarkMynsted> warlord: yeah that is the exact thing that I am struggling with. How can that be a liability?
15:37:59 <warlord> how can what be a liability?
15:38:11 <MarkMynsted> bank account
15:38:59 <warlord> Because an asset is "money owed to you" and a liability is "money owed to someone else". The the BANK, your account is money they owe you.. so by definition it's a liability to them. To you it's an asset (money owed to you)
15:40:13 <MarkMynsted> any suggestions on videos or anything to help clear the fog for me?
15:41:43 <MarkMynsted> I started watching these https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_KGEFWqEaTCDEzqFn0imjpyIRDy4p63s But there are 147 videos, and they have the audit your office supplies type of accounting
15:42:50 <warlord> have you tried the gnucash concepts & tutorial guide?
15:42:58 <warlord> it's not a video, but it's generally a good intro
15:44:26 <MarkMynsted> I did, but I think that going over it again would be wise
15:44:50 <MarkMynsted> I will do that, but if you have any other suggestions I will check those out as well.
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15:55:22 <MarkMynsted> " For example, when you deposit a paycheck and record the transaction as a transfer from an income account to a bank account, the balances of both accounts increase." Ok, this is something that is interesting
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16:01:59 <warlord> By default, "credit accounts" are shown reversed.. E.g. a credit card, income, and other accounts that would nominally be "negative"
16:02:41 <warlord> by default gnucash will reverse those accounts for you, which is why your bank account and income account both increase.
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17:04:56 <MarkMynsted> hmm
17:05:35 <MarkMynsted> Thank you for helping me warlord.
17:06:51 <MarkMynsted> I am still confused though, and would still appreciate any links people might have for helpful resources outside the gnucash tutorial and help documents that I am reviewing.
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17:17:25 <warlord> MarkMynsted: you might try asking on the gnucash-user mailing list..
17:17:35 <warlord> or if you have more specific questions I or someone else can help answer
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17:56:50 <MarkMynsted> ok
18:20:26 <MarkMynsted> I deleted a transaction and I do not see an undo in the docs or the menu. I have not saved, is there a way to quickly undo this?
18:25:51 <MarkMynsted> I do not see one. I guess I should have backed up before making any changes
18:58:08 <MarkMynsted> Ok, I am reading the tutorial section titled "Income and Expense Accounts". I have an income account named services. If I received money from a client for X amount I need to put a transaction in this account. Does that go in "charge", "transfer" or "income"? Where can I see help for those columns?
18:58:18 <MarkMynsted> I do not see descriptions for those in the help document either.
20:44:01 <warlord> Nope, there is no "undo"
20:44:57 <warlord> MarkMynsted: you're thinking about it all wrong.. A transaction MOVES VALUE from one place to another. Income and Expense are "magic" (sources and sinks for value)
20:45:30 <warlord> So when you receive income, you're moving value from Income:Services to... somewhere... Probably your Bank account.
20:46:12 <warlord> It doesn't matter whether you enter the txn from the Income or Bank account, but from my experience humans seem to process the transactions better from the Asset/Liability accounts and not from the Income/Expense accounts, because everything s "reversed"
20:46:41 <warlord> So from your Bank account (assuming that's where the money is going) you would create a transaction that deposits $x, with a transfer from Income
21:08:59 <MarkMynsted> ok, so I use the transfer field in the services account. When would I use the other fields?
21:12:51 <warlord> Well, you should use the date, description, transfer, and then one of the debit/credit columns.
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