2015-02-20 GnuCash IRC logs
00:05:18 *** fell__ has joined #gnucash
00:05:19 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell__
00:14:30 *** fell_ has quit IRC
00:30:24 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
00:30:32 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
00:30:32 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
00:31:31 *** O01eg has quit IRC
01:10:24 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
01:10:58 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
01:10:58 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
01:18:56 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
02:02:21 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
02:05:39 *** len has quit IRC
02:18:11 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
02:18:27 *** gjanssens has joined #gnucash
02:18:27 *** gncbot sets mode: +o gjanssens
02:26:21 *** StuM1 has joined #gnucash
02:30:10 *** cartsoftware has joined #gnucash
02:32:37 *** StuM has quit IRC
02:54:25 *** bozonius has joined #gnucash
03:15:29 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
03:18:08 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
03:22:00 <bozonius> any way to change billing ID after invoice is created?
03:22:07 <bozonius> (just asking)
03:25:25 <bozonius> thanks for any response...
03:33:44 *** ErKa has quit IRC
03:37:58 *** fabior has joined #gnucash
03:55:54 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
03:55:56 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
03:55:56 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
04:15:54 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
04:15:58 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
04:15:58 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
04:57:39 <keret1> how would I go about recording an invoice in DKK, paid using a card denominated in EUR and with the cost allocated to an expense account denominated in AUD?
04:58:14 *** keret1 is now known as keret
05:00:16 *** cartsoftware has quit IRC
05:21:20 *** keret1 has joined #gnucash
05:25:14 *** keret has quit IRC
05:25:47 <keret1> I know the DKK/EUR and EUR/AUD exchange rates.
05:25:54 *** keret1 is now known as keret
05:26:08 <keret> I have created a vendor with currency DKK.
05:27:21 <keret> When I created an invoice as usual and allocated the item purchased to an AUD denominated expense account, I was asked to enter a DKK/AUD exchange rate. I calculated this using other 2 known rates.
05:27:26 <keret> So far so good.
05:38:21 <keret> Now I am lost. Where do I go from here, and what can I do if I input the wrong exchange rate in the previous step?
05:51:00 <keret> When asked for a conversion rate when posting the invoice I thought I had entered the correct rate based on the calculated figures shown for the respective currencies. however when i checked the entry in the relevant expense account the exchange rate has been reversed.
05:51:34 <keret> now when i attempt to repost the invoice i am no longer asked for a conversion rate and the wrong rate continues to be used.
05:52:57 <keret> I have checked the price editor, but no DKK rates are shown.
06:08:27 <keret> had to create a new invoice to be able to enter a different conversion rate.
06:14:03 <keret> when I enter the correct exchange rate when posting the invoice an entry with the correct AUD figure appears in the expense account.
06:18:35 <gjanssens> bozonius: Edit->Edit Invoice
06:18:48 <gjanssens> If you already posted the invoice you first have to unpost it
06:21:48 <gjanssens> keret: good questions - I don't know how to correct the exchange rate for a posted invoice either
06:21:53 <gjanssens> perhaps warlord knows
06:22:05 <keret> ok, have worked it out. process payment of invoice as usual but make sure to enter the amount in EUR paid from the EUR denominated account, not the amount in DKK displayed in process payment dialog.
06:22:38 <keret> as for correcting the exchange rate, the only thing working for me so far is to create a new invoice.
06:23:48 <keret> in fact i had 2 invoices for which I had wrongly entered the exchange rates - each with a different rate. could not find a way to correct either, so had to create 2 new invoices. seems the exchange rate entered is some how permanently linked to the invoice.
06:42:06 <keret> when i process the payment by entering the correct amount of EUR, I am again asked to enter an exchange rate - this time for the DKK/EUR exchange.
06:43:58 *** Jimraehl1 has left #gnucash
06:45:02 <keret> despite entering the correct exchange rate, gnc creates an entry with the same amount of DKK (debit against payables) and EUR (credit against the EUR account), suggesting an exchange rate = 1, with an amount of DKK debited to imbalance-DKK. for each such entry, I have to simply absorb the imbalance-DKK amount into the figure for DKK payables.
06:46:17 <keret> when I say "absorb", I mean sum the 2 DKK figures, change the original amount debited to DKK payables to this summed total and delete the imbalance-DKK entry.
06:46:58 <keret> is this the expected behaviour?
06:47:42 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
07:00:10 *** fell__ is now known as fell
07:09:18 <fell> keret: Can you create a small demo file, save it in uncompressed XML format and attach it to bugzilla?
07:09:48 <fell> IMHO we should explore it and at least update the documentation.
07:20:57 *** rubdos has joined #gnucash
07:33:10 *** fabior has quit IRC
07:44:52 *** rickoehn has joined #gnucash
07:57:53 <warlord> bozonius: yes, click the edit button to reopen the Edit Invoice Dialog and you can reset it there.
07:58:51 <warlord> gjanssens, keret: Alas, I don't know.. I didn't implement cross-currency invoices. My system was always single-currency so you never had this "issue" :)
08:06:02 *** StuM1 has quit IRC
08:33:46 <keret> fell: have created demo file. how do i save uncompressed? also never filed a bug before so unsure how to go about it. any tips?
08:35:06 <keret> what component would i file this under?
08:37:16 <fell> See http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Bugzilla
08:37:33 <fell> Componentbusiness
08:40:38 <fell> Edit->Preferences->General->Files->Compress Files [uncheck]
08:40:43 <keret> ok, so found the "Compress files" option and unchecked it. have the uncompressed file ready to attach.
08:42:35 <fell> In Bugzilla Attachment:Add Attachment
08:56:56 *** nomeata has joined #gnucash
09:09:39 *** fabior has joined #gnucash
09:09:56 *** rubdos has quit IRC
09:13:31 <keret> fell: no longer a bug virgin. bug submitted.
09:13:46 <keret> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744858
09:13:47 <fell> Nr?
09:14:11 <fell> Thx, will look in it.
09:15:05 <keret> very late in the day where i am, so away for a few hours.
09:16:03 <fell> NP, Bugzilla will inform you.
09:17:37 <fell> keret: What are your locale settings?
09:26:18 <keret> default report currency is AUD
09:27:35 <keret> date format "locale dd/mm/yyyy"
09:27:45 <fell> Lang en and country AU?
09:28:07 <keret> default currency AUD
09:28:34 <fell> OK, thanks!
09:28:44 <keret> yes, lang en
09:36:44 <fell> keret, if I doubleclick in the price editor on currency, I can see the different rates, and can edit or remove them.
09:41:27 *** andy has quit IRC
09:49:27 *** cartsoftware has joined #gnucash
09:51:35 *** andy has joined #gnucash
10:10:45 *** himaxx has joined #gnucash
10:16:33 *** himaxx has quit IRC
10:35:05 *** O01eg has joined #gnucash
10:59:39 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
11:06:52 *** nomeata has quit IRC
11:35:47 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
11:45:48 <bozonius> warlord: I am already in the invoice dialog when I attempt to change the Billing ID. The mouse pointer can be placed in the billing ID field, but I cannot enter characters into it.
11:48:59 <warlord> bozonius: you're in the edit dialog, not the "invoice window"? I.e., not the window that shows the invoice line-items?
11:54:22 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
12:06:26 *** cartsoftware has quit IRC
12:07:38 *** cartsoftware has joined #gnucash
12:10:42 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
12:12:34 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
12:23:57 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
12:30:16 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
12:34:55 *** fell_ has joined #gnucash
12:34:55 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_
12:44:01 *** len has joined #gnucash
12:44:28 *** fell has quit IRC
12:44:59 *** jralls_afk is now known as jralls
12:53:54 *** fabior has quit IRC
13:23:33 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
13:23:41 *** Hinnerk has joined #gnucash
13:23:41 <Hinnerk> hi
13:23:55 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
13:24:51 <Hinnerk> hi - anyone feeling comfortable with the way he handles budgets in gnucash?
13:25:23 <Hinnerk> I'm not sure what the best practice is, but the very manual way of entering budgets is just too tedious.
13:25:46 <Hinnerk> in particular since it takes always quite a few moments between entering one number and being able to enter the next.
13:26:01 <Hinnerk> and i want to set monthly budgets for the entire year on many accounts...
13:38:59 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
13:40:27 *** cartsoftware has quit IRC
13:50:09 *** Hinnerk has quit IRC
14:14:30 *** siriuz has joined #gnucash
14:20:10 <siriuz> Hi, when I try generate any report eg. "Reports" -> "Account Summary" I get the following error: "Error opening file: Invalid argument" ... can someone please
14:20:16 <siriuz> Gnucash 2.6.5 on windows 7
14:48:43 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
15:00:32 *** fell_ is now known as fell
15:01:33 <fell> siriuz: I have no problem with that under Linux.
15:22:20 *** fabior has joined #gnucash
15:41:07 <jralls> siriuz: I just tested it on Win7 and had no problem. Also, that's not a GnuCash error message, perhaps it's from guile. Have you customized your reports at all?
16:04:44 <kimmo2_> maybe it's missing some guile libs?
16:14:56 *** gjanssens has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** fabior has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** len has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** bozonius has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** warlord has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** jchonig has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** mikee has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** wizkid238 has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** Coderjoe has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** puck has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** kimmo2_ has quit IRC
16:16:15 *** grantbow has quit IRC
16:16:18 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** fabior has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** len has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** bozonius has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** jchonig has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** mikee has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** wizkid238 has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** Coderjoe has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** puck has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** kimmo2_ has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** grantbow has joined #gnucash
16:16:18 *** irc.gimp.ca sets mode: +oo warlord mikee
16:16:19 *** gncbot sets mode: +o mikee
16:19:28 <keret> fell: at one stage I too opened the price editor, found the different rates and removed them to see if i would again be prompted to enter a rate when reposting each bill. i was still unable to re-enter an exchange rate for each bill.
16:20:28 <keret> that is, one a rate was entered for each bill, i was no longer prompted to enter a rate unless i created a new bill.
16:21:03 <bozonius> sorry, warlord. Not sure what/if you are asking/telling me whatever it is you are saying or telling or asking me.
16:21:37 <bozonius> I am in the window whose tab says "Edit Invoice - 000022" for example (there are others, of course).
16:21:43 <bozonius> where do I click or edit?
16:22:21 <bozonius> (sorry, you put a question mark on what looks like a statement, not a question. So I am left a bit confused.)
16:23:11 <bozonius> ah! OK, now I follow you. Thanks.
16:23:23 <bozonius> I had to go to the Edit menu to find it...
16:25:22 <keret> fell: go to the demo file i posted. delete the second DKK/AUD rate (ie 0.25). open bill #000002. unpost the bill. repost the bill. there is no further prompt to enter an exchange rate. at least that is the experience at my end.
16:28:27 <bozonius> My only remaining question is, must the billing ID be unique? Or can it repeat?
16:28:38 <bozonius> That is, may I place arbitrary info in that field?
16:31:33 <warlord> bozonius: there used to be a button you could press, too
16:31:33 <warlord> it can repeat.
16:31:33 <warlord> (invoice id can repeat, too -- gnucash doesn't care)
16:31:38 <warlord> it's just a human-readable reference. that's all.
16:32:24 <bozonius> invoice ID is not necessarily unique? Yipes. THAT is an item I think should be unique, mainly for DB integrity.
16:32:28 <bozonius> IMO.
16:32:42 <bozonius> So what happened to the button?
16:33:11 <warlord> nah...
16:33:20 <warlord> the DB uses the internal GUID for uniqueness.
16:33:30 <warlord> The "InvoiceID" is, again, purely for us humans.
16:34:24 <bozonius> I'm using it to identify the job since the job doesnt get listed on the find invoice dialog...
16:35:01 <bozonius> Of course, it means duplicate data in the invoice record, but it's worth it to me for the trouble it saves when searching for an open invoice
16:35:38 <bozonius> at any rate, this seems to work
16:35:45 <warlord> Not sure where the button went. It used to be in the toolbar.
16:35:45 <warlord> (I honestly dont run 2.6, so couldn't tell you for sure)
16:35:56 <bozonius> what version do you run?
16:37:12 <bozonius> probably a dev version, right?
16:40:39 <warlord> Actually I still run 2.4 here
16:40:45 <warlord> (just out of laziness)
16:57:36 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
17:11:16 *** fabior has quit IRC
17:16:55 <fell> keret: about 2. from which account did you start process payment? That imbalance is annoying.
17:30:38 *** ErnstNeger has joined #gnucash
17:31:34 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
17:31:46 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
17:31:46 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
17:33:56 <keret> fell: from the find bill dialog.
17:34:33 <fell> Thanks, I will try it...
17:37:41 *** ErnstNeger has quit IRC
17:44:00 <fell> Cool! If I abort the FX dialog, the PP dialog disapears and the rate is 1:1
17:49:15 <fell> I aborted it, because the invoice was valued 500 DKK, but the dialog assumed the txn in EUR, resulting in 3125 DKK
17:49:56 <fell> at 6,25
17:53:24 <keret> that's right. i was originally leaving the amount in the PP dialog as presented as I thought gnc would initially calculate/display the correct figure in the required currency.
17:54:10 <keret> found through trial and error that you need to change the figure displayed to the correct figure for the currency of the account from which payment is being made.
17:54:28 <keret> still results in an imbalance.
17:57:23 <fell> But I can edit the amounts preferable in Card:EUR (but I did it in GL) adjust the EUR amount, confirm the FX, remove imbalance and trading splits, which will again, now correct included as I finish the txn.
17:58:23 *** rickoehn has quit IRC
17:59:02 <fell> keret: then the imbalance is gone.
17:59:33 <keret> yes, that is what i had to do. either...
18:00:51 <keret> 1. PP with the original figure displayed (ie the original amount billed in DKK). this then records the txn with the EUR figure being equal to the original DKK figure and readjusts (inflates) the DKK figure in accord with the exchange rate.
18:01:31 <keret> or 2. adjust the amount in the PP to the EUR figure, in which case there is less readjusting of the created GL entry.
18:01:55 <keret> either way, there is an imbalance. i understand this is easily removed by manual adjustment.
18:02:40 <keret> the point i was making in item 2 in the bug description is that gnc ought to be able to correctly enter the transaction in the GL once all required info is inputted through the PP process.
18:03:33 <keret> to have a gui process that then requires superfluous manual adjustment by the user seems somewhat... well, superfluous!
18:05:19 <fell> Right, I will split this off in a new bug: PP takes wrong currency...
18:05:48 <keret> as to whether the PP taking the wrong currency is a bug, i'm not so sure.
18:06:30 <fell> ...the amount in ...
18:06:31 <keret> after learning/understanding how the PP process deals with this issue, it now seems more logical in that the PP dialog does not know at the start (ie when first displayed) the account from which payment will be drawn.
18:07:12 <keret> it is only after i select an account in the transfer account tree that the user makes a decision as the currency in which the payment will be made.
18:07:40 <keret> logically, it seems, the amount of this foreign/alternate currency is then entered in the amount field.
18:08:45 <keret> it is just not initially clear, and perhaps there is somewhere in the help/docs that could explain what is required when paying in an alterate currency to the currency used in the original bill.
18:09:08 <keret> the imbalance split in the GL is a separate issue entirely.
18:10:30 <fell> I will now write it in bugzilla and you can comment on it too.
18:10:37 <keret> perhaps this could be added to a tooltip to explain that the amount entered ought to be in the currency of the account from which payment is being made.
18:11:02 <fell> (Before I forget the steps)
18:11:49 <keret> or if an account is selected that is in a different currency to the bill that is being paid, the figure in amount field could be reset to 0 or blank to require the user to input a new amount in the new currency.
18:22:49 <fell> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727423 seems to decribe the problem vaguely.
18:24:10 *** andy has quit IRC
18:30:36 *** jchonig has quit IRC
18:33:05 *** jchonig has joined #gnucash
18:34:32 <keret> yes, appears to be the same issue, other than relating to the payment of an invoice rather than a bill.
18:35:50 <keret> in general, it is the imbalance created when the A/R (or A/P in my case) and bank/asset account from which payment is made are in different currencies.
18:38:05 <keret> again, this appears to be a separate issue to the uncertainty around which currency to use when entering a figure in the PP dialog. i suspect the simple way to resolve this particular sub-issue is to provide the user with some guidance at the point of entry (ie when using the PP dialog) and/or adding to the help docs as suggested above.
18:40:31 <keret> the user at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727423 notes he has not checked the same scenario with A/P. i guess that is now confirmed as having the same behaviour.
18:40:52 <fell> Yep
18:55:15 <fell> keret got mail
19:16:42 <keret> thx fell. good summary. i am adding a reply now. when adding a link in the reply, do i simply use <a> tags?
19:18:58 <fell> If you click on [reply] in bugzilla, it will insert that comment as citation - just remove unused parts.
19:20:03 <keret> have done that, but wanted to add a link referring again to bug 727423.
19:20:23 <keret> like you did in your reply.
19:21:53 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
19:22:18 <fell> If you write Bug nnn[#c] it will be replaced by a reference to bug nnn comment c
19:24:00 <keret> great thx. reply posted.
19:25:22 <keret> will read up on bugzilla when i get a chance once i'm done with this year's accounts.
19:33:31 <fell> keret, from my POV your answer belongs mainly into the other bug, because it is useful for the triage of the PP/Imbalance problem.
19:35:28 <fell> let us concentrate on the frozen FX rate in Bug 727423.
19:36:27 <keret> generally agree, though it also highlights the choice available to the user at the point of the PP dialog. happy to go with whatever you suggest.
19:37:19 <keret> at least it is now documented and other users with the same issue can better understand what is happening.
19:37:39 <fell> oops, now i gave the wrong number.
19:39:38 <fell> And yes, but we need somebody, who updates http://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/pt03.html ff
19:41:31 <keret> fell, are you saying leave issue 1 in bug 744858 and leave issue 2 for bug 727423?
19:45:19 <fell> Yes. If you only had reported issue 2, I had closed it marked as duplicate of 727423. It is too hard for us to read multiple treads for one issue.
19:45:48 <keret> novice bug reporter.
19:46:08 <fell> But with a steep learning curve. ;-)
19:47:24 <keret> and that's just as a user!
19:48:13 *** andy has joined #gnucash
19:48:35 <fell> Users are usually more creative in their usage than programmers can imagine.
19:49:15 <fell> So they find the leaks.
19:49:25 <keret> one of the advantages of open source and users having access to developers through these kinds of forums.
19:49:50 <keret> my sole focus right now is getting some accounts prepared. am more than happy to assist with documentation and further bug reporting time permitting once accounts are done over the next couple/few weeks.
19:50:36 <fell> Yeah, and for me it is bedtime (since a few hours).
19:50:46 <keret> thx.
19:51:19 <fell> welcome!
20:09:29 *** fell is now known as fell_afk
20:32:27 *** StuM has joined #gnucash
23:15:02 *** keret1 has joined #gnucash
23:20:01 *** keret has quit IRC