2015-02-02 GnuCash IRC logs

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06:34:11 <warlord> bozonius: I am 99% sure you cannot break that association.
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09:15:28 <drbeams> warlord, here?
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09:17:03 <Ahmuck> when importing a csv file is there a way to set the date for "real time". ie, 02/01/15.09:50:00
09:21:11 <warlord> yes, i am here
09:21:42 <warlord> no, post time only contains a date, there is no ToD field.
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09:22:11 <warlord> The only place where ToD is stored is for the "Entry Date", which isn't user-visible but is a timestamp of when the transaction was created.
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09:39:01 <Ahmuck> warlord, what is the format for the ToD field?
09:39:11 <Ahmuck> would it import via csv?
09:39:25 <warlord> ??? There is no ToD feld.
09:40:16 <Ahmuck> the "date field" in gnucash is not the same then. it's a seperate field i take it.
09:40:30 <Ahmuck> i need to go and read how gnucash is put togather
09:44:02 <warlord> the date field is just that.. a date. y-m-d or d-m-y.. or.... The QIF importer will try to figure it out; the other importers often use the "locale date format"
09:44:09 <warlord> There is no ToD input. Period.
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09:44:41 <warlord> Internally GnuCash *does* have a ToD "entry timestamp" but it's 100% internal -- when you import it gets set to the timestamp of the import.
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10:01:02 <david> Hi I started bug 743829 because I am crashing GnuCash on a regular basis and now I am trying to find a good backup so I can continue entering data.
10:02:48 <david> I am not sure how to detect a good backup because the crashes are repeating for all the things I have tried so far.
10:04:05 <david> Prior to this event I have never had GnuCash crash while running a log file
10:05:04 <warlord> david: just fyi running log files should always be a last resort. there is no checking so you can cause e.g. duplicate transactions.
10:05:50 <warlord> so... what ARE you running a log replay?
10:06:37 <warlord> er, WHY are you?
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10:08:10 <david> ok. GnuCash crashed yesterday while I was manually entering some fairly complex investment transactions. After the crash several of the most recent edits were missing from the file
10:08:34 <warlord> "save early, save often"?
10:10:15 <warlord> the log files have limited formatting. Moving from Windows to Linux may have issues due to line-endings.
10:10:36 <david> of course. I have the auto backup set to about a half hour but I suspect that I entered several transactions after the last backup
10:11:04 <warlord> unless you have hours and hours of lost work (did you turn off autosave?) I would just ignore the log replay and attempt to re-enter the transactions.
10:12:22 <david> I was beginning to feel like the backup I was starting from was the corrupted file rather than the logs
10:13:16 <warlord> More likely it's the logfile.. But a stack trace would say.
10:13:25 <warlord> Granted, any crash is bad.
10:15:42 <david> when I ran Gnucash with the --debug switch the trace was 24KB plus before starting the log replay
10:17:09 <warlord> Sure, but that's not a back trace.
10:17:10 <david> that was just opening the file, accepting the since last run and saving the file once
10:17:51 <warlord> Sure, I bet you have lots of data
10:18:20 <david> that was a lot easier than the other procedure
10:21:13 <david> I have not tried a backtrace on Ubuntu. Would that be useful?
10:22:11 <warlord> Yes, that would tell us exactly where the crash is happening
10:22:20 <david> or should I go back to my Windows machine
10:23:49 <warlord> either
10:24:22 <david> my first search for instructions just turned up crash reports
10:25:13 <david> found them
10:25:14 <warlord> david: did you see my response on bugzilla?
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10:29:22 <david> needed to refresh that window. I guess this will take a while.
10:32:22 <warlord> probably.
10:32:35 <warlord> a back trace will help track it down
10:39:13 <jralls> warlord: Re: posted_date: It is a time-stamp, not just a date. The GUI only takes a date, setting the time to 00:00:00 in the local TZ then converting to UTC, a dumb idea that causes a lot of date-switching problems when changing TZ. I don't know if the importers do the same thing, but I suspect not. So Ahmuck might be able to import a fully-qualified timestamp and get it stored. He just won't be able to see it in the GUI.
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10:41:05 <warlord> I have no idea if the importers support that, or what format it would support.
10:41:24 <warlord> Also, I thought gnucash was moving towards GDate (or the boost equiv) for that field.
10:41:43 <warlord> i.e. you shouldn't depend on the posted-date having a time in it (longer term)
10:42:27 <jralls> I proposed storing only a date for that, though it would have backward-compatibility repurcussions, but I got a lot of push-back from users... especially david.
10:43:42 <jralls> Perhaps that was because I didn't explain clearly enough that the time that we do store is bogus.
10:43:53 <warlord> In my mind it's the data file compatibility issues that trump the decision.
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10:50:31 <jralls> The file compatiblilty can be dealt with pretty easily, just add the time back if it's missing. That would go into a 2.6.x release and 2.8 would strip the time if it's present.
10:53:11 <warlord> There is one place where we *do* use the time, which is in the Closing Transactions.
10:53:22 <warlord> But we could probably do that another way.
10:57:22 <jralls> Huh. Do you know why we use a time for that?
10:58:06 <jralls> And are you sure it's on posted_date and not entered_date?
10:58:30 <warlord> yes, im sure.
10:59:05 <warlord> i did it to make sure "balance-as-o9f-date() didnt include it if run a seconbd time/
11:03:19 <david> My ears are burning. Ir are you talking about another David
11:04:37 <david> I occasionally listen to reason
11:06:44 <david> OK I posted a bug about reports not using time corectly
11:07:36 <david> I can't even spell with cold hands from shovelling
11:10:09 <jralls> Nope, it's you.
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11:15:04 <david> I will go back to the stacks ow
11:15:18 <david> now
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11:38:17 <gnux> hello everyone!
11:39:29 <gnux> is it possible to predefine services or products with gnucash, so one could append data easily to an invoice?
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11:43:20 <gnux> let's say i'm selling hammers and i would like to be able to select one of models to build quickly on an invoice -- is there any "product management" feature so i can predefine taxes and other parameters for items in store?
11:51:59 <warlord> gnux: no, there's none of that.
11:52:22 <warlord> However gnucash does have an "autofill" concept, so it will remember previous entries and try to reuse data from it.
11:52:37 <warlord> I dont know if that includes guessing prices based on previous entries.
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12:05:25 <bozonius> does gnucash keep track of how many other records are linked to a record? It seems to me, at least, this info should be reclamable through the data file it keeps.
12:06:43 <bozonius> Then it is a simple matter of maintaining this information in memory until the file is written out again. I've written programs that do this. It's a bit of work, but not very hard work really. Of course, the routines that create, modify, and delete records have to become link-count aware...
12:07:28 <gnux> thank you warlord, i think it would be a very nice feature
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12:21:38 <jralls> bozonius: The SQL backend can quickly figure that out with a query, though "link" is a squishy concept with relational databases. Similarly one could do an XPath search on the XML and find the number. Gnucash doesn't do that internally, it doesn't enforce referential integrity. What are *you* trying to do that needs it?
12:22:26 <warlord> gnux: patches always welcome.
12:22:58 <warlord> bozonius: do you have specific links you're referring to?
12:23:23 <bozonius> Yes, going back to our previous conversations about manipulating jobs, invoices, and customers.
12:24:13 <bozonius> (ability to delete...)
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12:25:59 <bozonius> jralls, warlord: For now, merely selecting the "active records only" checkboxes in the related dialogs is working for me
12:26:14 <bozonius> It's just kinda messy, that's all...
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12:31:25 <warlord> I dont recall all the reasons it was hard. Some of it was the copy-on-write mechanisms and data history.
12:31:47 <warlord> The real answer is: don't play around with features in your real data file. If you're going to test something, use test data.
12:32:23 <bozonius> Well, this is not a test, really. I'm using gnucash for actual business. Two businesses, actually.
12:33:45 <bozonius> How about a utility to clean out the XML file -- search and destroy orphan links and records, something like that?
12:36:42 <warlord> They aren't orphaned
12:36:58 <warlord> And if it wasn't a test, then just reuse them
12:42:17 <bozonius> The problem is that I accidentally created a customer record for customer A. I already had a customer record for customer A. But this record also has a job attached to it -- which I want to get rid of. The job is one of customer A's, but the rest of the jobs for customer A are associated with the original customer A record.
12:43:12 <bozonius> I don't want to destroy the original records for customer A. That would be a lot of work and would still leave me with a bad record.
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13:19:16 <warlord> So you have A and A'. You created a job for A'. You want to delete both A' and Job(A')?
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13:53:44 <gjanssens> For your information: I have been close once to implementing the ability to delete invoices
13:54:00 <gjanssens> I can confirm it's tricky
13:54:30 <gjanssens> Simply calling the invoice destructor in code would result in a crash if the invoice has any entries
13:55:58 <gjanssens> I managed to work around this by first deleting all entries, and then deleting the invoice.
13:56:14 <gjanssens> This work around is used in the code to duplicate an invoice in the gui
13:56:43 <gjanssens> The invoice gets duplicated and then the invoice dialog is presented to the user to edit any properties there
13:57:11 <gjanssens> If the user cancels that dialog, the invoice used to be created anyway
13:57:35 <gjanssens> This is no longer the case, because I have added code to delete the invoice on cancel using the above work around
13:58:10 <gjanssens> I don't know how much more complicated this would become if there's also a job associated with the invoice
13:59:18 <gjanssens> Since I ran out of time then, I never persued this further to properly implement deleting invoices
13:59:35 <gjanssens> I'm just sharing this in case others want to pick it up
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14:23:24 <warlord> thanks, gjanssens
14:23:55 <gjanssens> you're welcome warlord
14:28:33 <gjanssens> jralls: thanks for removing the intl-scm stuff in make distcheck. I clearly missed those
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14:38:31 <jralls> gjanssens: NP. I only found it looking for something else. I'm not sure it even did anything.
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15:15:32 <gnux> can anyone explain how to customize the invoice number's format, please? there is some sentence about pritntf-style string -- any workable example would be awesome
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18:30:52 <warlord> FYI: The server network is about to go down...
18:31:03 <warlord> jralls: you may lose me and gncbot...
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18:48:59 <warlord> Okay, looks like we're all back.
18:49:04 <warlord> jralls: can you /op gncbot please ?
18:49:05 <warlord> Thanks!
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19:20:58 <fellipe> hi all. How to separate per month, the balance ?
19:21:32 <warlord> fellipe: run a transaction report?
19:23:07 <fellipe> warlord, hi. so, I would like to reset the values, except those that were programmed to later months
19:23:52 <fellipe> warlord, I mean, after each end of month, I need to reset the values.. is it possible?
19:24:08 <warlord> fellipe: In which account(s)?
19:24:41 <fellipe> warlord, I've created just one account for my just one company. so I just have one account
19:25:20 <warlord> fellipe: Um, no... gnucash doesn't work with just one account. You need at least 2 for any transaction, but often you have at least four.. equity, asset, income, and expense.
19:25:36 <warlord> But that would be minimal checkbook-style accounting.
19:26:12 <fellipe> warlord, I am still learning how it works
19:26:16 <warlord> So, assuming by "account" you meant "data file", let me ask again: within your data file, which account(s) do you want to reset? (and why would you want to reset them every month?)
19:27:12 <fellipe> warlord, I was thinking in to reset values just for organization, I mean, if I want to check the history of what happend in a certain month
19:27:44 <warlord> fellipe: that's what the reports are for,
19:27:49 <fellipe> warlord, my english is poor so I will try to clarify,
19:27:50 <warlord> no need to reset the account balances.
19:29:39 <fellipe> warlord, let's suppose I add some income value. I cannot set the status , if this income was charged or not, or if the income was paid or not. moreover, month after month, I need to filter the balance
19:29:48 <fellipe> warlord, in specific month
19:30:19 <fellipe> warlord, when I mean "charged" is the action of the generation of the bill
19:30:52 <warlord> I don't understand you. You're not using standard terminology. Could I suggest that you read through the gnucash tutorial and concepts guide first?
19:31:42 <fellipe> warlord, ok.. I will try...
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