2015-01-19 GnuCash IRC logs
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12:20:56 *** warlord changes topic to "Free GPL Personal and Small Business Accounting || Please don't ask to ask, just ask and wait! (Possibly a few hours!!) || publicly-logged channel || latest stable: 2.6.5 || www.gnucash.org"
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13:25:25 <Ahmuck> is there any chance of getting a statement order column in gnucash? my parents are having trouble working through the statement.
13:27:07 <warlord> Ahmuck: what do you mean by "statement order column"?
13:27:20 <Ahmuck> as listed on the bank statement
13:27:28 <Ahmuck> line by line
13:27:30 <warlord> Ahmuck: I still have no idea what you mean
13:27:44 <Ahmuck> line 1, line 2, line 3 on the bank statement
13:27:57 <Ahmuck> a column similar to the number column
13:28:34 <warlord> Ahmuck: i still dont understand what exactly you're trying to accomplish. How about a step back: don't give me your perceived solution, what is the *problem* you're trying to solve?
13:29:08 <Ahmuck> trying to match the order displayed in gnucash with the order shown on the statement
13:29:14 <warlord> Why?
13:29:43 <warlord> What's wrong with the reconcile window for matching items in your statement?
13:31:04 <Ahmuck> my parents are not able to follow this because they are watching the totals and they don't match because gnucash is reordering the entries by num rather than as entered
13:32:08 <Ahmuck> a sort order by entry would work
13:32:12 <Simon> but you won't know the order on the statement until you compare them with the statement
13:32:17 <Ahmuck> without the need for an additional column
13:32:21 <Simon> it already sorts things by entry order (after date)
13:32:44 <Ahmuck> they as i do or i as they do are entering it in at the end of the year for income tax purposes to total and track itemized deductions
13:32:53 <Ahmuck> the rest of the year, it does not matter
13:33:18 <Simon> then unless the statement has things not in date order it should work
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13:41:37 <Ahmuck> Simon: ?
13:41:42 <warlord> Ahmuck: do you parents ever write checks? If so they should completely throw out the idea of following balances.
13:42:14 <warlord> if you're entering it at the end of the year then just enter it in the order it appears in the statements.
13:42:24 <warlord> then it will always be in statement order
13:42:34 <Ahmuck> warlord: the problem is it's not
13:42:44 <Ahmuck> gnucash is re-ordering it by check number
13:43:04 <Ahmuck> and the check numbers are not in order on the statement
13:43:24 <warlord> yes, check number takes precedent over date-entered. But only if it's a number. Put a character in front of the check# to have the ordering mechanism ignore it
13:44:05 <warlord> Ahmuck: you're really causing yourself lots of grief over what gnucash tries to make simple -- making sure your entries match your statements. GnuCash makes it easy by using RECONCILIATION.
13:44:29 <warlord> Please.. try it. You'll pull your hair out much less and then you can ignore the fact that the running balances don't match at each and every line.
13:44:38 <warlord> My bank statements dont even give me running balances!
13:44:57 <Ahmuck> their bank statemnts do.
13:45:07 <warlord> You're not listening to me
13:45:22 <Ahmuck> and it's not just about running balances, it's about following the order down the statment to whats on the screen
13:45:38 <Ahmuck> for verification the've entered it properly
13:45:42 <warlord> But the order CANNOT match... Especailly if you have checks.
13:45:51 <warlord> Ahmuck: have you tried reconciling?
13:45:56 <Ahmuck> item 1
13:45:57 <Ahmuck> item 2
13:45:59 <Ahmuck> item 3
13:46:00 <Ahmuck> item 4
13:46:08 <Ahmuck> how can you not match that?
13:46:17 <Ahmuck> afk
13:47:24 <warlord> because you might have written check item 1 on Jan 1 but they didn't deposit it until Jan 15, but you wrote check item 2 on Jan 2 and they deposited it on Jan 10, and you wrote check item 3 on Jan 3 but it got deposited on Jan 12, etc... Viola, your order != bank order. But you damn well need to know that you wrote those checks that haven't been deposited yet.
13:47:26 <Ahmuck> when gnucash re-orders the transactions as they are geting put in, it does like so
13:47:30 <Ahmuck> item 4
13:47:33 <Ahmuck> item 2
13:47:36 <Ahmuck> item 1
13:47:38 <Ahmuck> time 3
13:48:00 <Ahmuck> did you read what i typed ealier?
13:48:11 <warlord> Ahmuck: but you still did not answer my question: did you try reconciliation?
13:49:03 <warlord> Ahmuck: yes, and I'm trying to educate you that there is a better way.
13:49:27 <warlord> but you have to throw away this misguided concept that the running balances must match
13:49:31 <Ahmuck> so, while i was giving instruction, gnucash put the most recently transaction at the top of a list of transactions of about 10 for the same day
13:50:03 <Ahmuck> so my mother watching the screen was looking for the next item and asked me to place the same transaction in that I had just placed in gnucash
13:50:21 <Ahmuck> i explained to her what happened ... now like 4 - 5 times
13:51:06 <Ahmuck> what you are suggesting won't fix this problem. nor are they able to compare the printout to their statement for input accuracy
13:52:06 <warlord> No, it wont fix that problem. Unless you mark the statement after you enter a txn. But I don't understand your statement "[not] about to compare the printout to their statement for input accuracy"?
13:52:20 <warlord> I'll repeat my question a third time, Ahmuck: Have you tried reconciliation?
13:52:46 <Ahmuck> why would i try reconcilation on an entry i just put in
13:53:16 <warlord> Because it will let you know if you've missed anything, or input something twice.
13:53:23 <warlord> .. and lets you literally check them off.
13:53:31 <Ahmuck> but it won't let me know if the amount is incorrect
13:53:37 <warlord> it also performs an attempt at change-protecting the transactions
13:53:40 <warlord> Sure it will!
13:53:49 <warlord> That's exactly what it does.
13:53:51 <Simon> you could just not enter the cheque number in the "number" field, put it in the description?
13:54:03 <Ahmuck> so your saying that make the entry, check the entry, then mark it reconcilled
13:54:39 <warlord> Ahmuck: well, sort of.. work statement-by-statement.
13:54:42 <Simon> I use the "cleared" flag to indicate that I've checked it on a statement
13:54:46 <warlord> but at the statement level... yes!
13:55:24 <warlord> Simon: I mentioned that earlier -- or rather, put a non-numeric character in the front.
13:55:32 <Ahmuck> yes warlord that is the problem. statement by statement. gnucash is re-odering the entry such that when laid side by side on paper or visually mom is not following what is going on
13:55:40 <Ahmuck> on a paper ledger this would not be an issue
13:56:11 <Ahmuck> the check number allows them to check the check image for other information
13:56:26 <Simon> yes buy why can't that go in the description?
13:56:47 <warlord> Ahmuck: or why not enter it as "CHK1000" instead of "1000"?
13:56:58 <Ahmuck> in truth, gnucash doesn't do anything more than a paper ledger ... except it allows for easy view of accounts and categories and sums/totals
13:57:28 <Ahmuck> warlord: hrm that i might be able to do
13:57:44 <Ahmuck> so is a query and sort that difficult to perform in gnucash?
13:57:56 <Ahmuck> Simon: Description?
13:58:08 <Simon> yes... the text field describing the transactions
13:58:09 <Simon> -s
13:58:12 <Ahmuck> not all transactions are check numbers
13:58:28 <Simon> the bank statement is going to say something like "CHEQUE 123"
13:58:39 <Ahmuck> no, it only has the number
13:58:44 <warlord> Ahmuck: re-sorting the register does not change the balances.
13:58:58 <Ahmuck> 395 -- running balance of 47.65
13:59:03 <Simon> warlord: but it does make it difficult for someone entering everything in order to follow
13:59:11 <Ahmuck> 382 -- running balance of 42.50
13:59:21 <warlord> The balances are *ALWAYS* in "Default Sort Order" order. So if you re-sort to a non-default sort order your balances wont be "correct"
13:59:51 <warlord> Regardless.. Ahmuck, this is what I would recommend:
14:00:06 <warlord> 1) As you walk down the statement, mark off your transactions on the paper as you enter them.
14:00:55 <Ahmuck> interesting, i never noticed that the running balance was not dynamic
14:00:56 <warlord> 2) When you finish entering the statement, start the reconcile process, enter the ending balance from the statement, and then again walk down your paper and check off the transactions in gnucash (which may not necessarily be in the same order as on the statement)
14:01:06 <warlord> 3) Lather, Rinse, Repeat
14:01:10 <Ahmuck> she is doing that. like i said
14:01:17 <Ahmuck> marking the transactions on paper
14:01:35 <Ahmuck> when she looks at the screen, gnucash has moved it up in order
14:01:44 <Ahmuck> auto re-arranged it
14:02:01 <Ahmuck> never mind
14:02:03 <warlord> Yes, and tell her "it's supposed to do that. Mark it 'entered' on the paper and keep going.
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