2015-01-06 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:41:42 <name> Is there anyplace where I can find what format for each type of transaction my csv file would have to be in order to import transactions?
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04:44:26 <fell> name: Good idea!
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08:35:17 <warlord> jralls: can you /op gncbot again? Not sure what happened here overnight.
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11:41:18 <jralls> @op warlord
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11:41:40 <jralls> @op linas
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11:41:45 <jralls> @op mikee
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12:14:03 <warlord> thanks, jralls
12:14:18 <jralls> warlord: NP.
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12:36:19 <Equee> anyone around?
12:36:27 <Equee> im trying to make a new account - equity, but that's not an option?!?!?!
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12:37:41 <warlord> Equee: probably account type mismatch. Are you trying to make a new top-level account? Or a new account under an existing Equity account? Or ...???
12:37:58 <Equee> warlord, i made a new placeholder account for 2015
12:37:59 <warlord> accounts of type Equity can only live under other Equity accounts.
12:38:08 <Equee> and under that i want assets, equity, liabilities
12:38:15 <warlord> Equee: you cannot do that
12:38:29 <Equee> im just trying to do an opening balance for 2015 for a checking account
12:38:39 <warlord> But I would question WHY you would want to do that?
12:38:42 <warlord> Why?
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12:39:11 <Equee> because for tax purposes, etc i separate by year?
12:39:14 <warlord> You're making a lot of work for yourself for something that most likely the reports will give you
12:40:01 <warlord> if you want to do that then start a new file.. File -> Export Accounts ; File -> Open. Then input your starting balances. But there's really no reason to do that. The reports will calculate everything for you.
12:40:04 <Equee> basically, i have a top level account for each year
12:40:46 <warlord> gnucash doesn't allow that. You could have THREE top-level accounts per year: Equity, Asset/Liability, and Income/Expense. but really, that's a silly way to do it.
12:41:09 <Equee> that's what i want, three top level accounts per year
12:41:33 <Equee> well, the year is a placeholder
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12:42:12 <warlord> No, you would need to LITERALLY have 3 top-level accounts per year. Top level means top level. There is no "placeholder" above a top-level account.
12:42:23 <warlord> You cannot do what you're asking.
12:42:31 <warlord> GnuCash doesn't allow it.
12:42:40 <Equee> k
12:42:57 <Equee> so you are saying i have to make a separate book
12:42:59 <Equee> per year
12:43:05 <Equee> if anything
12:43:23 <warlord> Or do what 99% of people do and just run continuous.
12:43:35 <Equee> the problem is i haven't been using gnucash correctly for years
12:43:42 <Equee> so im wanting to start doing so
12:43:51 <Equee> that's why i want to start over for 2015 with just an opening balance
12:44:06 <warlord> Then make a clean break and start with an empty file.
12:44:12 <warlord> File -> New File
12:44:28 <Equee> i could also just maintain the new file for next year if continuous works out better
12:45:12 <warlord> Like I said, 99% of gnucash users are continuous. I maintain two sets of books (personal and corporate). I haven't restarted since 2005 and 2007.
12:46:06 <Equee> ok
12:47:19 <Equee> oh wait
12:47:19 <warlord> gotta run for a bit.
12:47:24 <Equee> im going to lose all my customers aren't i?
12:47:29 <warlord> yes
12:47:37 <warlord> and invoice data..
12:47:46 <Equee> k
12:47:48 <warlord> and pretty much everything that's not an "Account"
12:48:21 <warlord> off now.. biab
12:51:49 <Equee> i had one question on creating the new account - this is for an LLC and i have outstanding personal loans from myself to the LLC. would that be tracked under liabilities?
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13:17:45 <Equee> warlord, are you back?
13:22:12 <warlord> Equee: yeah, i'm back.
13:22:51 <warlord> If you expect the loan to be paid back then no, it's not a liability, it's an asset (money owed to you)
13:22:53 <Equee> ok, thanks for your help
13:23:06 <Equee> that's right
13:23:18 <Equee> so I can just create a separate bank account under assets called LLC loan or something?
13:24:25 <warlord> Yes. Or just a raw Asset account (doesn't need to be Bank per se)
13:24:38 <Equee> how do i record the payments from the loan?
13:24:48 <Equee> is it recorded in a separate account?
13:24:59 <Equee> the loan is shrinking as time goes on, generally, as it's being paid back with income
13:28:25 <Equee> warlord, what would account type be for it?
13:28:35 <Equee> for the loan account, and would i put an opening balance?
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13:42:31 <warlord> Equee: as they pay back the load it's a transaction from your LLC Asset back into your bank account
13:43:02 <warlord> How you enter the O-B depends on whether it's a new transaction or a txn that happened "before you started accounting"
13:43:25 <warlord> In the former case it would be from Bank -> LLC-Loan. In the latter case you use Eq:O-B
13:43:41 <Equee> ok
13:44:38 <Equee> warlord, so should i open an additional subaccount under assets for the loan? should i put a starting balance?
13:44:56 <Equee> i guess it's not a normal asset, but more of an account receivable? i mean, i don't have access to it at the moment
13:51:04 <Equee> warlord, ok, i just create another asset account for the LLC and enter the starting balance, i think
13:53:54 <warlord> Equee: yes, just create an asset account for the LLC and put in the starting balance (assuming the balance already exists before the "beginning of gnucash")
13:55:06 <Equee> warlord, ok, and does it matter that that loan is tied up in real property, in that it was used to purchase real estate?
13:56:49 <warlord> No
13:57:02 <warlord> It doesn't matter how the LLC used your loan.
13:57:05 <Equee> ok, so i created a new file, as business type.
13:57:08 <warlord> (AFAIK -- IANAA)
13:57:19 <Equee> so it has assets->accounts receiavable and current assets
13:57:22 <Equee> receivable
13:57:31 <Equee> the LLC would be under CA, right?
13:58:45 <Equee> sorry, winding down do my last question on this, just want to get it right from the beginning
14:00:21 <warlord> I'm not sure it would count as A/R
14:00:36 <warlord> I wouldn't use A/R for your loan.
14:00:46 <warlord> I would literally just create an account Assets:LLC Loan
14:00:48 <Equee> ok, so just create a sub account under current assets for the loan?
14:00:49 <warlord> type Asset
14:00:52 <Equee> ok
14:00:54 <warlord> Yes
14:01:00 <Equee> oh, not under current assets, but at the same level?
14:01:05 <warlord> Either way
14:01:10 <warlord> You can always move it later.
14:01:14 <warlord> Current Assets works as a parent
14:01:18 <Equee> right
14:01:31 <Equee> so last question on that
14:01:36 <Equee> initial balance transfer?
14:01:44 <Equee> equity opening balances account, or transfer account?
14:02:13 <warlord> If you're starting new books then equity
14:02:45 <Equee> ok
14:03:02 <Equee> so this is for rental property, and i get so much a month from two clients with two properties
14:03:16 <Equee> ive made invoices before with no issues, im just wondering how they are categorized now?
14:03:33 <Equee> oh, sorry, one more thing
14:04:15 <Equee> as the loan was made from me personally to the LLC, would i create some other account for payments to owner, or something? because the loans should be paid back to me, not to the checking account, etc of the LLC
14:04:51 <Equee> the only income for this LLC is rental income, monthly
14:05:27 <warlord> Equee: I'm honestly not sure. You might try asking an accountant. (sorry)
14:06:01 <Equee> warlord, i know how to track it for tax purposes, etc. im just wondering how to track it in gnucash
14:06:38 <warlord> Well, how would you track it for tax purposes?
14:06:40 <Equee> basically, the loan assets decrease as they are paid back to the owner, an account outside of this tree
14:07:24 <warlord> right, so as the loan is paid back you credit the loan account and debit the "payback" account (e.g. your Bank account)
14:07:55 <warlord> The LLC income is... different. These are your personal books, not the LLC books, so you shouldn't be accounting for any LLC income here.
14:08:50 <Equee> well, this particularly account is for the LLC
14:08:54 <Equee> it's an LLC book
14:08:58 <Equee> the rental income is paid to the LLC
14:09:31 <Equee> that's why im wondering if the loan is a liability, because as far as the LLC is concerned, i would think it is?
14:09:37 <warlord> Okay, so from the LLC side your loan to the LLC is a liability.
14:09:41 <Equee> right, thanks
14:10:08 <warlord> Reverse what I said before -- from the LLC side when they pay you back it's a transfer from Bank -> Liability:Loan.
14:10:35 <warlord> rental income is pure income. It's an xfer from Income:Rental -> Bank
14:10:41 <warlord> (LLC's Bank account)
14:11:01 <Equee> ok, after i changed the loan account to liability, equity still has opening balance including it as a +?
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14:12:01 <Equee> i would think my equity would be in the red?
14:12:27 <warlord> Changing the account type doesn't change the debit/credit sides of existing transactions.
14:12:41 <warlord> you may need to manually reverse the transaction if it's wrong.
14:12:42 <Equee> b/c i put the initial balance as whatever
14:12:45 <Equee> ok
14:13:08 <Equee> right now it's opening balance - transfer equity:opening balances decrease xxxxx
14:13:12 <Equee> should i move it over to increase?
14:14:45 <Equee> okj, i moved it over to increase
14:14:56 <Equee> now equity is in the red
14:16:43 <Equee> warlord, under liabilities, if something is in the black, that means it's ultimately a negative, as in the red means negative negative, or positive, right?
14:20:52 <Equee> warlord, i think i have like two more questions:)
14:21:17 <Equee> so i have income:rental, so that's a transfer from bank to that, or from that to bank?
14:21:53 <warlord> Equee: I believe so. A "negative Liability" would be in the red.
14:22:51 <warlord> You always credit the source of a transaction and debit the target. Think about it as modeling flow of value; the value flows from one place to another. In this case from Income to Bank. So Credit Income, Debit Bank.
14:23:16 <warlord> When you pay a bill it's the opposite: you credit Bank and debit Expense.
14:24:08 <Equee> well, im confused in that. let's say the current bank balance is $5,000. when I get a rental check for $1,000, the bank balance changes to $6,000
14:24:28 <warlord> Yes
14:24:30 <Equee> so rental income goes up $1,000 and so does bank balance/asset checking account
14:24:35 <warlord> Yes.
14:24:47 <warlord> Some accounts are "reverse balanced" accounts by default.
14:25:25 <Equee> ok, so when that $1000 is deposited in my bank account, current assets:checking account goes up $1,000, but where does it transfer from?
14:25:29 <warlord> (accounts that are generally "negatives", like liabilities and income" get reversed to make it easier to understand. )
14:25:32 <Equee> or it doesn't transfer
14:25:38 <warlord> Income
14:25:46 <warlord> Everything transfers.
14:25:48 <Equee> ok
14:25:51 <warlord> That's the rule of double-entry.
14:25:58 <warlord> Like I said, it's a *flow*
14:26:11 <warlord> A flow has a start and an end, or a source and a destination.
14:26:18 <Equee> so if i use my online bank settings to get the new transactions/balance for the checking account, i just update transfer for that one to "from income"
14:26:30 <warlord> yes.
14:26:32 <Equee> ok
14:26:35 <Equee> sorry for all the qs
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14:26:53 <warlord> If you haven't read it yet I highly recommend the Concepts & Tutorial Guide
14:27:13 <Equee> k. i was watching some tutorial videos
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14:27:20 <Equee> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqAaScYVeRQ is good
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14:42:24 <jralls> @note
14:42:24 <gncbot> jralls: Error: "note" is not a valid command.
14:44:08 <Equee> man!
14:44:25 <Equee> n/m
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14:51:05 <Equee> warlord, ok, it works. i have one more q, though
14:51:29 <Equee> when you set up a certain account in there for use with online banking... online banking downloads credits and debits
14:51:44 <Equee> would they both go under the same assets:current assets:checking account?
14:56:07 <Equee> actually one related question to that, also. the tenants provided a deposit which is held in the bank account or whatever, but is generally returned when they terminate their lease. what would that be under for accounts?
14:58:05 <Equee> some people say use as a loan from the tenant, liability
15:00:33 <Equee> ok, forget that one then
15:00:48 <Equee> warlord, please let me know when you return, i had one or two more questions before i finish with this account
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15:20:54 <warlord> Sorry, Equee -- was on the phone with my boss. now on the phone with a co-worker.
15:21:05 <Equee> k
15:21:34 <warlord> I dont use online banking. But generally it will download debits and credits to a particular acocunt -- you then need to map those to the respective income and expense accounts
15:21:44 <Equee> i think my main other question is, how do i i annotate a payment from the LLC loan outside of the account
15:21:52 <Equee> i have liabilities:LLC loan
15:22:15 <Equee> occasionally, from the checking account/assets, a payment is made to me to pay off that loan
15:23:56 <Equee> so the LLC loan will decrease,but where does it transfer to?
15:24:20 <Equee> or as it's a liability, does it just transfer from checking account to LLC loan, and as checking account goes down, so does LLC Loan?
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15:26:32 <warlord> The latter.. xfer from Checking to Liability (to "pay down" the liability)
15:27:09 <Equee> ok, so the transaction is entered in checking to liability?
15:27:12 <Equee> err sorry
15:27:21 <Equee> so i made the transaction in liability, as in, typing it in
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15:31:02 <warlord> Doesn't matter which account you use to enter it.
15:33:45 <Equee> ok thanks
15:34:11 <Equee> so i started another book for 2015, for personal, and did simple checking. i put checking account starting balance as xxxx
15:34:16 <Equee> but for some reason, it's not showing from equity
15:34:22 <Equee> everything is still 0.00
15:34:49 <warlord> open the checking account and verify?
15:35:01 <Equee> yeah, it's empty
15:35:09 <warlord> then the O-B txn didn't get entered.
15:35:13 <warlord> Just create it manually
15:35:34 <Equee> if i create a new checking account and do the same thing, i have the same problem
15:36:01 <Equee> i go to assets/ca/and create a new checking account
15:36:10 <Equee> type bank
15:36:32 <warlord> There's nothing special about the O-B transaction.
15:36:41 <warlord> It's just a transaction to Equity:Opening Balances
15:37:17 <Equee> ok, it got thrown by the $ and ,
15:37:18 <Equee> it works now
15:37:38 <warlord> OKay.
15:39:49 <Equee> credit cards are generally under liabilities?
15:41:13 <warlord> yes
15:41:56 <Equee> thx
15:42:06 <Equee> doh, all the online banking stuff is gone:/
15:42:33 <Equee> oh n/m
15:43:25 <Equee> thanks
15:47:00 <warlord> oh, right.. yeah, you'll have to reconnect that.
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15:50:28 <AndreeeCZ> hi. is there a way to print current account?
15:50:29 <AndreeeCZ> to pdf
15:55:59 <Equee> warlord, so the checking account for me personally has an opening balance of whatever. i just did online banking and imported some transactions, such as food purchase
15:56:08 <Equee> what would i put for transfer from that?
15:56:15 <Equee> it's not an expense for tax purposes, i mean
15:56:29 <Equee> or should i just always have some "expense" it can pull from?
15:56:46 <Equee> should transfer always have something?
15:58:14 <Equee> like, if you are just buying a candy bar, you should still have that coming out of some expense?
16:01:20 <Equee> yeah, from this tutorial, i think that's the case
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16:05:03 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: you need to print it to a report and then print from there to pdf. So yes, via 2 steps
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16:05:26 <warlord> it must always go to some expense.
16:07:38 <Equee> ok
16:07:43 <Equee> i think i'm almost done with two books
16:07:52 <Equee> i made one mistake when i i did get transactions
16:08:02 <Equee> as it prompted me for which account, and i chose the wrong one
16:08:08 <Equee> how do i fix that now?
16:09:41 <Equee> fixed it:)
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16:16:34 <warlord> Ah, good.
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16:36:12 <Equee> warlord, "this account register is read-only"
16:36:15 <Equee> why does it keep saying that?
16:36:36 <Equee> it says turn off the placeholder checkbox
16:36:41 <Equee> everytime i open the book it says that
16:37:37 <kimmo2_> it's an account with the placeholder attribute set
16:38:18 <Equee> but there are several in this book. which is it talking about?
16:38:31 <kimmo2_> the one you open
16:38:38 <Equee> you mean the book?
16:38:46 <kimmo2_> no, a single account
16:39:01 <Equee> it only says that on starting gnucash, even if a non-PH is selected
16:39:19 <kimmo2_> you probably have a placeholder register open under a tab
16:39:37 <kimmo2_> hrm, gots to go
16:39:39 <kimmo2_> later
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16:44:03 <asfasfaf> Is revenue the same thing as income?
16:46:49 <kimmo2_> "yes"
16:47:36 <kimmo2_> income such as dividends, capital gains etc are not usually classified as revenue
16:49:41 <asfasfaf> Thank you. How would a capital gain be classified?
16:50:39 <asfasfaf> Anyway, I thought in accounting, they were usually called "revenue" accounts and not "income" accounts
16:50:40 <kimmo2_> just other income
16:50:51 <asfasfaf> Ok thx
16:51:00 <kimmo2_> yeah, revenue is usually "sales from main businesses"
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16:51:25 <kimmo2_> interest gains, capital gains, etc are not included in revenue
16:51:52 <asfasfaf> Right, in Gnucash, they label the accounts as assets, equity, expenses, income and liabilities. I was wondering if Revenue would be a more accurate name for an account
16:51:55 <lmat> Is there an easy way to get a report of the transactions that include a debit to a particular account?
16:52:00 <asfasfaf> category that is
16:52:28 <kimmo2_> lmat, account report?
16:52:32 <kimmo2_> or transaction report?
16:52:42 <lmat> kimmo2_: thanks, I'll take a look
16:53:01 <asfasfaf> The opening page of gnucash where the tab says Accounts
16:53:05 <kimmo2_> asfas, not really, as revenue is just a subclass of income
16:53:17 <asfasfaf> I see thx
16:54:05 <warlord> Equee: it means you have a register opened for a placeholder account.
16:55:02 <warlord> If it does it when you start that means that you probably left one open, so check your open tabs.
16:57:12 <Equee> oh ok
16:57:19 <asfasfaf> it is so refreshing to see this gnucash after spending years dealing with nonsense bs accounting software that do little to teach correct accounting practice
16:57:52 <asfasfaf> If this program works as well as I think it will, I see no reason why it could not handle a relatively sizable business
16:58:07 <jchonig> warlord, jrails, thanks for that help getting started with Python API before Xmas, easier than it sounded
16:58:20 <warlord> asfasfaf: well it doesn't have multiple users or roles, so it couldn't handle a business with multiple accountants.
16:58:29 <warlord> jchonig: you're welcome. HNY
16:58:40 <jchonig> HNY!
16:58:54 <asfasfaf> warlord: I see. well 1 accountant can handle a good sized business on their own I think
17:00:02 <lmat> asfasfaf: yes, revenue is more accurate :)
17:00:34 <asfasfaf> lmat: i am getting some conflicting advice on that
17:00:35 <Ahmuck> got a question. gnucash have a reciept entry option for smartphones, like take a photo and then enter the info to be uploaded when returned home?
17:00:49 <lmat> asfasfaf: A serious flaw in gnucash is startup time. When the book gets big, it can take a while to open up.
17:01:11 <lmat> asfasfaf: There are some other things that lots of people like to see that gnucash doesn't provide in the way of reports I think
17:01:39 <asfasfaf> lmat: I dont mind it so far. a few minutes of load up time is better than hours/days wasted trying to make sense out of quickbooks for example
17:01:57 <lmat> asfasfaf: But gnucash's "ledger" approach to accounting is invaluable! By that I mean that everything is a ledger. Forget that Quickbooks GUI stuff where when you write a check, you fill out this form that sort of looks like a check, and you have no idea what's happening in the register, etc.
17:02:03 <lmat> asfasfaf: yes, exactly.
17:02:13 <lmat> asfasfaf: Oh, and a big show stopper for many is: no multi-user support.
17:02:20 <asfasfaf> lmat: Yes, that is what I want - traditional accounting practices
17:02:37 <Ahmuck> no multi-user support for gnucash?
17:02:48 <lmat> asfasfaf: That not only means that only one person can input transactions at a time, it also means that if you want someone to be able to input while another draws up reports, you need to copy the data file
17:02:52 <lmat> Ahmuck: Not at the same time anyway...
17:03:12 <asfasfaf> If anyone needs multiuser, like are likely a pro and I would guess use some hard core accounting software
17:04:02 <lmat> asfasfaf: I don't think so. I was accounting for a very small Christian Denomination, and I didn't suggest they use gnucash because on a regular basis (many times a day) multiple people were looking at the books.
17:04:12 <asfasfaf> gnucash i think will get there in time. they are off to the right start I think as long as they keep it standard accounting practice and terminology
17:04:14 <lmat> asfasfaf: Even though (theoretically) I was the only one actually changing anything.
17:04:31 <asfasfaf> I see
17:04:42 <lmat> asfasfaf: I don't see any departure from standard accounting practices any time in the future, that's for sure!
17:04:50 <asfasfaf> great
17:05:22 <lmat> asfasfaf: I strongly recommend gnucash as a free (I'm not talking about price) alternative to all the garbage accounting software available, especially the cloud, SAAS stuf!
17:05:43 <lmat> kimmo2_: Okay, I checked out the account report and transaction report. They are in the right way, but I'm hoping to limit to just credits.
17:06:36 <lmat> Ahmuck: As far as the take a photo bit, I think about any phone that can take a photo can store it until you get home ;-)
17:06:40 <asfasfaf> I love the option in gnu cash that allows the use of formal accounting practice and the use of the general journal. Many people seem to think dumbing down accounting makes learning accounting easier and I could not disagree more
17:06:51 <lmat> Ahmuck: No, I don't know of any functionality like that existing in gnucash. Also, I don't have a cellular phone...
17:07:15 <asfasfaf> i mean to say formal accoutning labels
17:07:51 <lmat> asfasfaf: The only ledger I use is the General Ledger. In fact, the most irksome "bug" in my opinion is that the General Ledger doesn't remember the Filter by... settings when you click "Remember these settings" or whatever.
17:08:02 <Ahmuck> lmat, i was sitting at the grocery store the other day and thought to myself, take a photo of the reciept, enter basic info, autoupload as an entry to gnucash. wind blows my cash reciept away, i still have a record
17:08:39 <lmat> asfasfaf: It defaults to current month I think (or maybe "one month"), so I have to go in each time I open the general ledger and click View > Filter By... > Show All
17:08:49 <warlord> Ahmuck: no, no receipt photo, and no multi-user support.
17:08:49 <lmat> asfasfaf: Not just each time I open gnucash, but each time I open the ledger :(
17:09:31 <asfasfaf> lmat: I see. I have yet to get to that point. Still working on how to import my accounts and transactions from csv (what columns do I need, how formatted, delimiters etc)
17:09:39 <lmat> Ahmuck: yes, you should photograph cash receipts! I only use credit card (I get at least 1% back on all purchases), so I have *some* way of reconciling the account ^_^
17:09:59 <lmat> asfasfaf: yes, good luck! I started accounting Jan 1, 2014: nothing to import.
17:10:02 <Ahmuck> some of us live off the grid from time to time
17:10:14 <lmat> Ahmuck: I thought that was me because I don't have a cellphone ;-)
17:10:22 <Ahmuck> lol
17:10:51 <Ahmuck> yes, neither do i. but gnucash's new photo reciept system might make me think twice about getting one now :)
17:11:12 <lmat> Ahmuck: !!
17:12:38 <warlord> note that the "receipt system" is just storing, effectively, a filename. It doesn't store the image.
17:13:17 <Ahmuck> i was thinking like ... my community grocery store. click, enter the name of the store, or select on a button, amount, date, done
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17:19:26 <lmat> kimmo2_: This seems easy enough: http://sprunge.us/DQeG It looks like I'm losing some accuracy, but that should be simple enough :)
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17:28:27 <lmat> okay, http://sprunge.us/RFcK looks good :)
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18:05:35 <Equee> how do i get an invoice from one book to another?
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18:21:28 <warlord> Equee: enter it by hand
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18:32:57 <mib_vpe1or> can anyone help me setup gnucash to connect to my bank to download transactions?
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18:42:44 <Ahmuck> mib_vpe1or: maybee
18:43:45 <Ahmuck> it looks pretty simple
18:43:52 <Ahmuck> have you tried it?
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19:13:12 <Equee> warlord, you still around?
19:13:26 <Equee> i have one more question and i'm completely finished with my transfer
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