2014-12-23 GnuCash IRC logs
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11:53:03 <jralls_afk> @tell tcastleman You set themes with a ~/.gtkrc-2.0.gnucash file, breifly described in http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_get_I_rid_of_strange_unreadable_characters_or_adjust_the_font_size. However I don't put any extra theme engines in the bundle, so you'd need to build one yourself. The reason I don't theme it is that I found the theme engines caused some instability in the quartz backend. I'm not willing to dea
11:53:03 <gncbot> jralls_afk: The operation succeeded.
11:53:03 <jralls_afk> l with users having random crashes from a theme so I stick with the basic look of Gtk2.
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12:03:32 <gjanssens> jralls: I have just merged maint into master.
12:03:40 <gjanssens> There were some merge conflicts regarding clang
12:03:52 <gjanssens> I hope I merged them properly
12:04:28 <gjanssens> I have chose to take whatever was on maint, as that seemed where you fixed them more recently
12:04:36 <gjanssens> You may want to test though
12:07:34 <jralls> gjanssens: I'll test, but yes, the maint version is the better one. The master version, while it worked for Xcode6 did so only because it was broken, and it wouldn't have worked with Xcode5.
12:08:13 <jralls> I should figure out how to do a configure test for it, though, because I have no idea if it will work with non-Apple clang.
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12:18:34 <jralls> gjanssens: As for the note in bin/environment.in, I cherry-picked MTA's environment.in commit so the note at the top is the same in both. I just forgot to push it yesterday. I'll do that shortly; I need to merge again as well because my fix for 741228 will be different in master and I should fix it while it's still fresh in my mind.
12:19:23 <gjanssens> Ok that's fine
12:20:17 <jralls> As for gnucash-env.in, it's used in the python bindings.
12:21:26 <jralls> What about the windows build files? Do they still need review when making a change to environment.in?
12:22:19 <gjanssens> Yes.
12:22:46 <gjanssens> gnucash.iss rewrites parts of the environment file at install time depending on where the user decides to install gnucash
12:23:38 <gjanssens> And install.sh writes out an environment file to allow running gnucash from inside msys
12:24:19 <gjanssens> Although I think that should be unrelated to environment.in changes
12:24:46 <gjanssens> gnucash.iss remains
12:29:47 <jralls> OK, I'll adjust the note to mention that.
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12:54:35 <jralls> gjanssens: I just noticed a5d77e4. Sweet!
12:56:51 <gjanssens> :)
12:57:02 <gjanssens> I'll do more like these if I see the opportunity
12:57:25 <gjanssens> The whole option code was a bit too large to tackle right now :(
12:59:19 <gjanssens> And that deserves an upgrade to c++ anyway instead of translation from guile to c
13:08:59 <jralls> Good opportunity for you to start in on C++11. Try it, you'll like it!
13:22:25 <gjanssens> Tempting :)
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13:48:11 <Ahmuck> hi. is there a way to set the order of transactions so that it will fit my statement?
13:49:38 <warlord> Ahmuck: you can order them within a day, but honestly don't do that. There is NO WAY that you can guarantee your books match the bank's books because the order you initiate transactions might not match how long it takes them to be processed.
13:50:02 <warlord> For example, if you write a check today you should put it in your books today.. even if the recipient doesn't cash it for a month!
13:50:32 <warlord> This is also what reconciliation is for -- to check off the items in your book compared to that on your bank statement and make sure it's all in balance.
13:54:29 <Ahmuck> i am doing the books for the year so the statements have already happened
13:54:52 <Ahmuck> i don't do books until the statement comes in gnucash
13:55:15 <warlord> then enter the transactions in the order of the statement.
13:55:21 <Ahmuck> how do i order them within a day?
13:55:46 <warlord> enter them in the correct order...
13:55:50 <Ahmuck> i missed an entry and it's at the bottom of the entries. this is not a problem for the balance but it is a problem for a the running total
13:55:56 <warlord> (although I think it will always put debits before credits).
13:55:59 <warlord> Or use the NUM column
13:56:03 <Ahmuck> so if i mis enter them then i need to delete them all and do them again?
13:56:53 <Ahmuck> drag and re-order?
13:57:12 <warlord> No, there is no drag-and-reorder
13:57:50 <warlord> the only way to reorder within a day is via the NUM column
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14:01:40 <Ahmuck> these are EFT Debit Card Transactions. I use the number column for check numbers
14:03:51 <warlord> Well,the check numbers should be in numerical order, right?
14:03:53 <Ahmuck> a time column would help me order them
14:04:01 <warlord> Patches always welcome
14:04:13 <warlord> Or...... ignore the order.
14:04:18 <Ahmuck> i often use 3 or 4 checkbooks at the same time depending on if I can find them
14:04:25 <Ahmuck> so my check numbers are never in sequence
14:04:27 <warlord> Who cares if your balance is off for a few lines?
14:04:44 <Ahmuck> it's easier to match my statement and running balance
14:04:47 <warlord> You have multiple checkbooks to the same checking account?
14:04:52 <Ahmuck> yes
14:04:58 <warlord> WEIRD. I didn't even know yo ucould do that.
14:05:20 <warlord> Still.... This is what the reconcile feature is for -- to make sure you didn't miss anything.
14:05:21 <Ahmuck> yes ... can't find one, just grab a new one from the box
14:05:28 <Ahmuck> ok
14:05:51 <warlord> And besides, once you reconcile it tries to make it harder to edit that txn.
14:06:12 <Ahmuck> for purposes of fraud iirc
14:06:16 <Ahmuck> correct?
14:06:50 <warlord> No.. for purposes of not unintentionally shooting yourself in the foot.
14:07:10 <warlord> If you want to intentionally shoot yourself in the foot there are many ways to do that. (Fraud is one of them ).
14:07:14 <Ahmuck> got a question about banking transactions. sometimes they list it as EFT, ACH, etc. Aren't they all the same, electronically debited?
14:07:44 <warlord> I think so.
14:07:45 <Ahmuck> counter checks always come in as 9999
14:07:50 <warlord> They might be slightly different technologies.
14:08:36 <Ahmuck> whats the different between delete transaction and cancel transaction
14:09:37 <warlord> cancel rolls back any modifications you've made.
14:09:43 <warlord> delete... deletes it completely
14:10:40 <Ahmuck> battery about to die. bbiam
14:11:24 <warlord> later
14:12:44 <Ahmuck> back. so in most double accounting systems deleting leaves a space in the journal. in gnucash, canceling would leave an empty space on the visual record? deleting it would remove it from the visual record?
14:13:23 <warlord> No.
14:13:33 <warlord> Canceling just cancels any changes you made.
14:13:42 <warlord> If you haven't made changes it doesn't do anything.
14:13:54 <warlord> For example, if you're entering in a NEW transaction then they are the same function.
14:14:10 <warlord> If you're already committed the transaction once, then cancel will revert back to that, delete will remove it completely.
14:14:16 <warlord> In either case, a removed transaction is gone.
14:14:20 <warlord> There is no "empty line"
14:14:55 <warlord> If you want to VOID the transaction you can do so -- which will keep it in place but remove it from the balance computations.
14:17:06 <Ahmuck> cancel == void
14:22:55 <warlord> No, the cancel button is *not* the same as voiding a transaction
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14:28:02 <Ahmuck> k. don't understand the difference or how everything is going but i will visit it later. need to study for my M cert on my drivers licence. later
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14:30:52 <warlord> Ahmuck: it's easy.
14:30:57 <warlord> Delete is, literally, delete.
14:31:18 <warlord> Cancel is "ignore any changes I've just made before I hit <enter> to commit my changes"
14:31:22 <warlord> Void is ... void.
14:31:33 <warlord> What part don't you understand?
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14:36:49 <Ahmuck> warlord: got it, thx for the clarification
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15:23:26 <gjanssens> jralls: do you have some initial thoughts on migrating the options to c++ ?
15:23:54 <gjanssens> Any boost modules that could be helpful here or how you would tackle this ?
15:24:28 <gjanssens> A high level concept would already give me a headstart in the wonderful land of c++
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15:34:31 <tcastleman> On MacOSX the default GTK theme which ships with gnucash looks rather dated. Is there a way to use a more modern "yosemite" style theme?
15:34:31 <gncbot> tcastleman: Sent 3 hours and 41 minutes ago: <jralls_afk> You set themes with a ~/.gtkrc-2.0.gnucash file, breifly described in http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_get_I_rid_of_strange_unreadable_characters_or_adjust_the_font_size. However I don't put any extra theme engines in the bundle, so you'd need to build one yourself. The reason I don't theme it is that I found the theme engines caused some instability in the quartz backend. I'm not willing to dea
15:34:53 <tcastleman> jralls: thanks just got your reply from gncbot
15:45:23 * tcastleman wondered if gtk-theme-switch form macports will work.
15:45:32 * tcastleman tries it
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16:44:13 <tcastleman> installing gnome-themes from macports and including them in .gtkrc-2.0.gnucash works a treat :)
16:54:53 <gjanssens> tcastleman: nice :)
17:03:49 <tcastleman> dang, the yosemite theme from gnome-look.org causes a crash
17:04:17 <tcastleman> Is it easy to troubleshoot that?
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17:13:34 <tcastleman> ahha.. switch2 has console output gives a clue (gtk-theme-switch)
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17:16:49 <tcastleman> So which GTK version does GNUCash use?
17:16:55 <tcastleman> is it 2 or 3 or + ?
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17:19:59 <jralls> tcastleman: GnuCash uses Gtk2.
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17:27:56 <tcastleman> jralls: did you say that there is a health warning customising the theme of gnucash?
17:28:04 <tcastleman> My IRC client closed and I missed it.
17:30:10 <kimmo2_> "Warning: using gnucash to track personal finances with fine granularity may cause OCD"
17:30:44 <jralls> I said that I'd seen some instablility with some of the themes and that I didn't want to put users at risk of crashing for a prettier look. That was several versions of both GnuCash and Gtk2 ago, so it might work out OK now. Or not. I haven't tested it in a long time.
17:32:45 <tcastleman> kimmo2_: ha that warning comes way too late for me. I have learned to live with my OCD
17:33:02 <kimmo2_> yeah
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17:33:15 <kimmo2_> mine comes in waves
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17:33:42 <kimmo2_> there are periods where I enter the grocery store receipts down to the line item
17:34:02 <tcastleman> we wrote a web interface to gnucash's mysql backend so we can enter the check splits right at the table!
17:34:11 <kimmo2_> and then at the end of the month complain to my wife about spending too much on portion-size yoghurts
17:34:27 <tcastleman> ha!
17:34:44 <kimmo2_> it does help keep the money in my pocket though
17:35:09 <tcastleman> but if she's anything like me if I buy the large one that becomes my portion
17:35:24 <tcastleman> but portion size helps diet too even if it's a little extra $$
17:35:30 <kimmo2_> heh
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17:36:27 <kimmo2_> well, my kids know that you can always take seconds, but you can't put the stuff back in the container so they usually take reasonable portions
17:37:04 <kimmo2_> it does help, though, when you have tabulated the 100+ different classes of items you generally buy at the supermarket
17:37:25 <kimmo2_> "why did we buy 40 euros worth of non-specialty cheese?"
17:37:46 <kimmo2_> "why did we spend 90 euros on salad bar?"
17:38:18 <kimmo2_> A healthy dose of OCD is all you need to maintain some order in your life
17:42:57 <tcastleman> hehe
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17:55:14 <tcastleman> Right.. talking of OCD I think I've done enough to get GNUCash on my Mac working nicely. Clearlooks theme with Helvetica Neue size 14 looks fine Tom, move on with your TODO list!
17:56:01 <tcastleman> Thanks again jralls, hopefully I won't have to burden you guys again anytime soon!
17:57:33 <jralls> tcastleman: You're welcome, and remember that if GnuCash gives you any trouble to take the theme off as your first troubleshooting step.
17:58:39 <tcastleman> jralls: ok thanks will do! Cheers. Wishing you and the team a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
17:59:54 <tcastleman> jralls: oh I meant to ask you is it worth me publishing on github or such the mysql libs for anyone else using Yosemite?
18:01:31 <jralls> tcastleman: You could write it up on the Wiki at http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/MacOSX/Quartz#Building_Libdbi_Drivers
18:02:38 <tcastleman> jralls: OK yes I will look at doing that. And publishing the binaries? I'm guessing anyone using Yosemite could just drop in the 2 files I generated?
18:03:29 <tcastleman> libdbdmysql.so and libmysql.16.dylib
18:03:49 <tcastleman> forgive my ignorance if that is a stupid question
18:05:17 <jralls> tcastleman: There would be GPL issues with that. It's also not necessarily the case that they'd work on another system unless they had the same or newer system dependencies.
18:06:17 <tcastleman> ok.. that being the otool -L recursively.
18:07:09 <tcastleman> I see.. well I'll clone your github make the changes and write up on the wiki when I get a moment.
18:07:21 <tcastleman> s/clone/fork/
18:13:38 <tcastleman> Anyway. Bye for now!
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