2014-12-04 GnuCash IRC logs
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06:21:56 <mikee> @op
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08:32:10 <mikee> @op
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08:52:52 <lmat> @op
08:52:52 <gncbot> lmat: Error: You don't have the #gnucash,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
08:52:53 <gncbot> lmat: Sent 14 hours and 57 minutes ago: <jralls> Well, depends what you mean by fire events . The engine does indeed emit events when certain things happen in order to synchronize with the GUI and other bits of GnuCash. There are (naturally) several mechanisms, including QofEvents, GObjectSignals, and those hooks.
08:53:19 <lmat> jralls: That's what I had in mind, thanks!
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09:14:37 <gjanssens> @op
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09:14:44 <gjanssens> heh ;)
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09:30:56 <lmat> gjanssens: no messages for you!
09:31:45 <gjanssens> :D
09:31:45 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 1 minute ago: <lmat> no messages for you ;-)
09:32:18 <gjanssens> :D
09:32:58 <gjanssens> Huh was :D a command or did you just actually send me a message :?
09:33:56 <lmat> gjanssens: heh, I sent you a message ^_^
09:34:05 <gjanssens> Got me there :)
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09:48:28 <warlord> cute
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10:18:05 <lmat> I'm having trouble creating a mental model for how the project should be organized
10:18:34 <lmat> For instance, should no gui function call qof functions? That is, should the gui only interact with the engine?
10:18:43 <lmat> And the engine works with the gui and qof?
10:18:53 <lmat> Is there a development document along these lines?
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10:19:12 <warlord> lmat: what do you mean? I think it depends on what QOF functions.
10:19:27 <lmat> warlord: Okay, so it's not an accurate blanket statement.
10:19:37 <warlord> For example, yes, the GUI should definitely be able to call QOFQuery.. And the GUID and QofDate code..
10:19:45 <warlord> QOF is "part" of the engine.
10:19:57 <warlord> and also a helper lib
10:20:30 <lmat> warlord: thanks
10:20:50 <lmat> is the qof a "module"? is the engine a "module"?
10:22:27 <warlord> Ummm... the line between "module" and "shared library" is somewhat blurred. I'm not sure I could tell you which is which.
10:22:54 <lmat> warlord: okay
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10:25:26 <gjanssens> lmat: that was actually one thing that crossed my mind after yesterday's conversation
10:25:26 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 51 minutes ago: <lmat> I sent you a message
10:25:50 <gjanssens> What is "qof" and does it still make sense to treat it independently
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10:26:30 <gjanssens> For example should it have its own namespace "Qof" or should we switch to "Gnc" while we're at it ?
10:26:56 <gjanssens> It has been artificially separated at some time in an attempt to make it an external library
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10:27:08 <gjanssens> That never worked out
10:28:06 * gjanssens thinks he could use some education as what qof really represents as well...
10:28:27 <gjanssens> I do know it stands for "Query Object Framework" but that's still vague for me :(
10:29:02 <gjanssens> Anyway just raising the questions I had...
10:46:07 <lmat> gjanssens: That's mostly what I was thinking, too.
10:46:48 <warlord> gjanssens: a bit of history. Originally it was all xacc/gnc APIs.
10:47:01 <warlord> Then it was abstracted a bit more (when I added the business features)
10:47:22 <warlord> Then it got pulled out into its own library (QOF) and everything was renamed. At that point GnuCash became a user of QofLib
10:47:57 <warlord> But then the needs of qoflib and the needs of gnucash diverged; it was hard to get required changes into upstream qof necessary to make forward progress on gnucash.
10:48:04 <warlord> Bugs were found but wouldn't get fixed.
10:48:13 <warlord> And changes were made for QOF that didn't work with gnucash.
10:48:24 <warlord> SO.... we pulled it back into the gnucash tree instead of using qoflib.
10:48:42 <warlord> Theoretically, yes, we could rename it all back to gnc if we wanted.
10:52:08 <gjanssens> Out of curiosity, is the external qoflib still around/maintained ?
10:53:23 <warlord> around: yes. maintained? Dunno.
10:53:36 <warlord> gjanssens: yum search qof
10:59:07 <gjanssens> Hmm I doubt is very much maintained
10:59:30 <gjanssens> The last release was 0.8.7 in May 2013
10:59:53 <gjanssens> The last announcement on the website is the release of 0.8.0 in 2009
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11:01:13 <gjanssens> Some activity still happens though
11:02:05 <gjanssens> according to the mailing list on Debian's alioth website (https://alioth.debian.org/projects/qof/)
11:03:11 <gjanssens> Reading their definition qof's goal is to provided an sql like interface to a set of objects
11:03:27 <gjanssens> Is that a read-only interface or read-write
11:03:43 <gjanssens> RW no doubt
11:04:35 <gjanssens> So if we transition to a real sql-only backend in the future, qof will become obsolete ?
11:05:51 <gjanssens> That's long-term conditional talk of course :)
11:16:56 <warlord> Read-Write
11:17:18 <warlord> And yes, possibly it would become obsolete.
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11:36:16 <lmat> Sure enough... https://alioth.debian.org/anonscm/git/qof/qof.git
11:36:53 <lmat> So neil committed September 23 2014. Who is using this library?
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11:46:38 <gjanssens> lmat: fedora has one package in its repositories that depends on qof: gnotime
11:46:39 <warlord> Well, that was fun. System hung at 11:20. gjanssens, did I miss anything after my message of 11:17?
11:49:17 <gjanssens> lmat asking who is using qof after looking at qof's git repo
11:49:38 <gjanssens> Me answerring there's only gnotime in the fedora repos that depends on qof
11:49:55 <gjanssens> (oh you saw my last message)
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11:50:53 <gjanssens> Hey that's a linas project ! At least he's mentioned as a dev
11:52:46 <warlord> Yes, it is.
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12:31:32 <jralls> gjanssens: Looking at the slow startup on XP, I tried launching with --debug --extra. Didn't get me anywhere, 37 seconds until the first log message, 5 seconds between "module init backend" and "Could not locate optional module Python Interface", then 2 seconds to load the deta file.
12:36:37 <warlord> Maybe we need to add more logging earlier in the startup process?
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12:42:50 <jralls> The first log message is from calling setlocale in main(). I don't think there's anything earlier.
12:43:59 <jralls> By which I mean that I don't think the program itself is doing anything before that which could be logged.
12:51:18 <gjanssens> That's what I think as well
12:51:29 <gjanssens> Which is not good :(
12:52:01 <gjanssens> What happens before our own code is activated ?
12:52:05 <gjanssens> DLL loading ?
12:52:17 <gjanssens> Dynamic linking ?
12:53:02 <gjanssens> I have no idea how such things can be followed on Windows
12:53:24 <jralls> Those two are the same, and yes. Load the program, get its dependencies, find them, load them, link them, repeat with their dependencies until done.
12:53:56 <gjanssens> Got to run...
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12:59:38 <linas> olah
13:00:50 <linas> I think gnucash used to use an earlier version of qof
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13:01:07 <jralls> Testing with earlier builds. The two 2.6.4 releases show the splash screen in 2 seconds. That points rather squarely at WebKit as the problem.
13:03:20 <linas> just reading the backstory.
13:05:03 <linas> yes, what warlord says is mostly right, lmat gjanssens -- qof started out inside of gnucash and was then split out on its own
13:06:55 <linas> any but it never got traction on its own -- it seemed generally useful, but people just didn't write desktop apps that way.
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13:13:31 <jralls> gjanssens_: And a build from a few days ago with locally-build WebKit 1.2.7 also starts up in 2 seconds. I think that nails the problem down to WebKit 1.8.3.
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14:31:18 <lmat_> linas: Thanks for the note!
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