2014-10-24 GnuCash IRC logs

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12:52:06 <warlord> fell, gjanssens: could one of you /op gncbot ?
13:10:26 <gjanssens> op gncbot
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13:10:37 <gjanssens> there you go
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13:10:56 <warlord> thanks
13:11:03 <warlord> not sure what happened.
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13:23:02 <Simon> "Unable to retrieve quotes for these items:"
13:23:04 <Simon> "Continue using only the good quotes?"
13:23:22 <Simon> continue doing *what*?
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13:24:15 <Simon> and with which quotes, given that it couldn't retrieve any new ones there are only the existing quotes
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13:24:31 <Simon> those quotes can't be "good" or "bad"
13:24:54 <warlord> Simon: I dont think it actually checks whether it received any good quotes.
13:25:25 <Simon> it also stops it continuing to retrieve any more quotes
13:25:44 <Simon> but the way the message is worded it's almost asking me if I want to delete all the existing quotes for that item
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13:35:31 <lmat> It would be very nice if we could make the build system parallel...
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13:39:14 <warlord> Simon: huh?? How do you read that into the message?
13:39:42 <warlord> It's asking "Do you want to continue the quote retrieval process using only the good quotes"
13:39:50 <warlord> lmat: why?
13:40:09 <warlord> It's not like you have to rebuild the whole app every time.
13:45:26 <lmat> warlord: I rebuild pretty often, and it take a very long time
13:46:44 <warlord> you must have a slow system. ;)
13:46:51 <warlord> a full build here takes a few minutes.
13:47:10 <lmat> warlord: I make check; too, but yeah a few minutes is a pretty long time :)
13:47:31 <lmat> warlord: Knowing that it's only using 1/8 of my cores suggests that the speed benefits could be great
13:47:33 <warlord> Uhhh.....
13:47:56 <warlord> Well, feel free to figure out how to get the build system to work in parallel.
13:48:00 * Simon wonders why any change to "Display Symbol" isn't saved
13:48:11 <warlord> Simon: are you using XML or SQL?
13:48:18 <Simon> XML
13:48:26 <Simon> but it's not even trying to save it
13:48:38 <Simon> if I re-edit the security it's still blank
13:51:24 <warlord> Huh. Weird.
13:51:31 <warlord> I've never used that function. gjanssens_ ?
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14:03:26 <lmat> warlord: The only way to get the build system parallel as I see it is for the build system to understand the build ^_^
14:04:09 <lmat> warlord: As it is, each instance of make doesn't know how the others work :-(
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14:08:46 <warlord> lmat: "make -j" should let you compile multiple files in the same directory simultaneously.
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14:09:10 <warlord> I'm not sure what you mean by "each instance of make"
14:13:25 <warlord> autotools should work with make -j.. More likely there's an issue with some of the custom rules we've added (i.e. the swig stuff).
14:13:46 <lmat> warlord: I have read that recursive make does not work with make -j.
14:14:12 <lmat> warlord: When building src/engine, the make instance there doesn't know all the dependencies within src/libqof, etc.
14:14:40 <warlord> It's not that it "doesn't work".. It does, but only for files within the same directory.
14:15:01 <warlord> So it *should* build all src/engine/*.c in parallel.
14:15:11 <warlord> and all src/libqof/*.c in parallel
14:16:02 <warlord> It needs to serialize on "SUBDIRS"
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14:16:51 <warlord> basically, it should never be building src/engine and src/libqof at the "same time".
14:18:28 <lmat> warlord: Why not? It's faster if they go at the same time...
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14:19:51 <warlord> because that's a limitation of SUBDIRS. You necessarily need to serialize because of dependencies between SUBDIRS
14:20:24 <lmat> warlord: Ah, right, it's about that that I was complaining at first :)
14:20:40 <warlord> There's nothing to do about that...
14:20:45 <lmat> warlord: Of course there is!
14:20:49 <warlord> ... except make one master Makefile.am. Ewww
14:20:55 <lmat> warlord: Not at all.
14:21:12 <lmat> warlord: Makefiles can be broken up and included from one another...
14:21:14 <warlord> However we can (and should) make sure that our custom rules don't prevent make -j from working.
14:21:16 <Simon> is there some way to debug getting quotes?
14:21:22 <warlord> Simon: gnc-fq-dump
14:21:35 <warlord> lmat: Do you know anything about automake?
14:21:48 <warlord> (based on that last statement I assume "no")
14:21:57 <lmat> warlord: Not much. I know that automake and recursive make go hand in hand :(
14:22:00 <warlord> Also, you're assuming GnuMake... Also a bad idea
14:22:23 <warlord> there's nothing wrong with recursive make.
14:22:52 <lmat> warlord: I wish our build system could run in parallel...
14:23:00 <warlord> You *can* safely perform a parallel make with recursion. You just need to serialize the directories, but that's okay.. You still get the speedup within each subdir.
14:23:09 <warlord> lmat: then fix the places where it cant
14:23:31 <lmat> warlord: How can I build parallelly? cd gnucash; make -j ?
14:23:36 <warlord> yes
14:23:48 <warlord> ... and fix the places where that breaks.. most likely our custom rules
14:23:54 <lmat> warlord: I see...
14:24:22 <lmat> warlord: I thought make -j would go into different subdirectories and attempt to build them in the wrong order, etc.
14:24:26 <Simon> gnc-fq-dump has no valid documentation
14:24:32 <warlord> it shouldnt
14:24:48 <warlord> Simon: gnc-fq-dump source stock
14:25:00 <Simon> it complains that it needs the date and currency
14:25:09 <warlord> well, that's why it's not working
14:25:10 <lmat> Simon: check https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash ?
14:25:42 <warlord> lmat: why should simon look there?
14:25:52 <lmat> warlord: The documentation is the source code!
14:26:34 <Simon> also, the "-v" in the usage is in the wrong place
14:27:41 <warlord> Simon: I dont know what data you're trying to get; if gnc-fq-dump tells you its missing data the issue is that the grabber for the quote source cannot pull the necessary data.
14:31:30 <Simon> it's not clear that the missing required data is a failure in the output, not the input
14:40:58 <warlord> It's absolutely a failure in the data retreival
14:44:54 <warlord> simon, what source and symbol are you using?
14:48:22 <Simon> a source not supported by the ancient version of Finance::Quote I have
14:48:47 <Simon> it's amazing that perl has a full dependency system but dh-make-perl still doesn't automatically determine dependencies
14:49:07 <Simon> it should be trivial for them to automatically keep all the perl packages up to date :|
14:49:56 <warlord> heh
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14:54:45 <Simon> instead I have to manually locate every dependency in order to get a valid debian/control file
14:55:10 <warlord> or just use CPAN?
14:56:16 <Simon> using CPAN would then conflict with apt
14:59:34 <Simon> I wouldn't be surprised if no one updated libfinance-quote-perl simply because it now depends on the nonexistent libhtml-tokeparser-perl
15:00:03 <Simon> and libmozilla-ca-perl
15:00:15 <warlord> Does the underlying code depend on that? Or just the current .deb?
15:00:38 <Simon> the underlying code depends on HTML::TokeParser
15:01:04 <warlord> okay...
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15:01:17 <warlord> so what do you mean by "nonexistent libhtml-tokeparser-perl"?
15:01:35 <Simon> libfinance-quote-perl is the debian/ubuntu package for Finance::Quote
15:01:56 <Simon> the latest version of Finance::Quote depends on HTML::TokeParser and Mozilla::CA, neither of which exist as debian/ubuntu packages
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15:02:37 <Simon> (debian/ubuntu only have packages for those perl modules that are dependencies of application packages)
15:03:06 <warlord> Ah, so you would need to build packages for them... Or include them in your updated F::Q package
15:03:31 <Simon> including them would be very odd
15:03:47 <Simon> I need to build packages for those two, and manually determine the dependencies for them too
15:04:13 <warlord> It might be odd, but you're doing it for yourself, not for distribution..
15:05:17 <Simon> aha, HTML::TokeParser is actually part of libhtml-parser-perl
15:05:28 <Simon> but for some reason it's in /usr/lib/perl5 not /usr/share/perl5
15:08:38 <warlord> isn't that already part of @INC?
15:08:42 <Simon> it would be harder to figure out how to build in two packages than to just build multiple packages
15:08:51 <Simon> yes but I'm using the find command to locate things, not perl
15:12:24 <warlord> Ah, first thing I ever do is "perl -e 'use ....;'" to test
15:14:13 <Simon> I know they're there otherwise it wouldn't build, but I need to know which file they use to find out which package to depend on
15:14:30 <Simon> the ubuntu build servers can't build it if the dependencies are missing
15:15:48 <warlord> RPMs are so much easier.
15:17:01 <Simon> they both have their quirks
15:17:28 <Simon> rpm is a bit flawed in that there is a flat namespace for all source files... including the patches
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15:33:42 <warlord> It's only a flaw if you have multiple SRPMS installed/building at the same time.
15:34:29 <warlord> Using mock, not an issue
15:55:03 <Simon> now that I've upgraded Finance::Quote I just need to find a provider that doesn't misquote the price or the date
15:55:16 <Simon> https://launchpad.net/~sa.me.uk/+archive/ubuntu/perl/+packages if anyone else wants a newer Finance::Quote
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16:05:37 <Simon> does gnucash not use the ISIN to lookup prices?
16:05:54 <warlord> no
16:06:05 <warlord> it uses the symbol
16:10:14 <Simon> the "Display symbol" is special-cased in the code to only apply to currencies
16:15:22 <warlord> yes...
16:19:15 <warlord> The display symbol is specifically for currencies.
16:30:05 <gjanssens_> lmat: I'm always building in parallel using 'make -j5'
16:30:39 <gjanssens_> I have 4 cores, and I read you get the best performance by adding one more thread which is used for sheduling
16:30:45 <gjanssens_> So 5 for me
16:31:00 <gjanssens_> That works fine
16:31:03 <lmat> gjanssens_: That's how I started when I started working on gnucash, but I was having lots of difficulties (they weren't the same each time, either), and Warlord said something about parallel not working, and I read that recursive make screws up recursive builds...
16:31:07 <lmat> gjanssens_: I'll give it another go!!
16:31:27 <gjanssens_> Only make install can't be parallellized
16:31:36 <lmat> gjanssens_: good to know!
16:32:09 <Simon> +1 isn't usually enough, it depends on the I/O time
16:32:45 <gjanssens_> I have fixed a few issues with parallel make during the 2.5 cycle
16:33:08 <gjanssens_> From what I read then the make install issue was a bug/limitation in the autotools system
16:33:23 <gjanssens_> But I'm no expert either, so take my understanding with a grain of salt...
16:33:46 <gjanssens_> Anyway, time for bed
16:33:51 <gjanssens_> see you later
16:34:47 <lmat> gjanssens_: later1
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16:38:05 <warlord> yeah, you cant make install in parallel. But install is very quick.
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17:18:47 <rborbonth> Hello World
17:19:07 <rborbonth> Back with some questions
17:19:15 <lmat> rborbonth: yo
17:19:35 <rborbonth> whats the difference between income statement and cash flow
17:19:51 <rborbonth> I seem to be misundertanding the cash flow report
17:21:55 <rborbonth> here's the thing: I generate the cash flow report and it seems it's not taking everything into account
17:22:22 <rborbonth> when I check it with the income statement it does
17:26:27 <rborbonth> brb
17:28:38 <lmat> rborbonth: There may be different default settings about which accounts are being used.
17:28:46 <lmat> rborbonth: Customize and make sure the correct depth is specified?
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17:36:21 <warlord> rborbonth: they are completely different reports showing completely different data.
17:36:44 <lmat> -/win 7
17:36:46 <warlord> The cash flow report shows you the transactions that enter/leave a set of accounts. E.g., it shows you the FLOW of your cash.
17:37:09 <warlord> The Income Statement (aka Profit and Loss) shows you all your income and expenses, regardless of where the money comes from.
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17:40:41 <warlord> For Cash Flow, you select a set of accounts and draw an imaginary boundary around them. the report will show you all transactions that cross the boundary. If transactions dont cross the boundary (i.e., they are solely between selected accounts, or solely between non-selected accounts) they wont show up.
17:42:48 <rborbonth> .
17:43:21 <rborbonth> ok
17:44:37 <rborbonth> but I'm looking at an account which all the money comes in from just one account. How can there be differences. I could go for all or nothing, but not just a part
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18:29:48 <Lingo> anyone has Google Inbox?
18:36:57 <rborbonth> .
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19:34:48 <rborbonth> hey jralls
19:35:06 <jralls> rborbonth: Hi
19:38:56 <warlord> rborbonth: what account are you looking at? and what's it's account type?
19:39:30 <rborbonth> I have a payroll account in expenses
19:39:54 <rborbonth> all the money for that account comes from just one asset account
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19:48:21 <warlord> I bet these are split transactions, right?
19:51:54 <rborbonth> yes
19:53:10 <rborbonth> warlord: I have to go home now. I
19:53:28 <warlord> Right, that's why the Cash Flow report shows different data. When you have splits it doesn't really know how the money is flowing, especially if there are multiple accounts selected.
19:53:43 <rborbonth> ah!!!
19:54:11 <warlord> Besides, it really sounds like you want a P&L, not a Cash Flow.
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19:57:02 <rborbonth> ok
19:57:54 <rborbonth> I'll keep studying...
19:58:44 <rborbonth> thx for all your patience
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