2014-10-23 GnuCash IRC logs
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10:01:36 <lmat> Just to check, there's no way to order a register by "running balance"?
10:01:47 <lmat> or "daily balance"
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11:03:55 <warlord> lmat: I'm not sure I understand what that means.
11:05:08 <lmat> warlord: I'm looking at my register, and I would like to find when its balance was a particular value
11:05:22 <lmat> warlord: So I want to sort by 'balance' of the account whose register I am viewing :)
11:08:55 <warlord> Why?
11:16:26 <lmat> warlord: Well, in this case, I went to reconcile and the "Starting Balance" is incorrect. I'm wondering if the balance was *ever* the stated starting balance.
11:16:41 <lmat> warlord: If not, no sweat, I'll just go back a month and see if *that* starting balance has ever been the balance of the account.
11:18:28 <warlord> ah.
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11:18:51 <warlord> yeah, there's currently no way to sort by balance. There's not even a way to *find* by balance, either.
11:19:17 <lmat> warlord: hmph, oh well :)
11:23:12 <warlord> You could add it in.
11:23:40 <lmat> warlord: heh, I'll see what I can do. Of course, I can't compile gnucash at the moment ;)
11:25:59 <warlord> try maint instead of master
11:27:07 <lmat> warlord: Oh yeah, that's where that work would go...
11:27:14 <lmat> warlord: I've never worked on maint
11:31:18 <warlord> it'll be easier to build, i'm sure.
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11:54:29 <warlord> lmat: FYI, the reasoning is "dependency hell sucks, so we target the oldest dependencies on all supported distributions at the time of target release". I.e., explore all the major distros and choose the oldest deps.
11:54:57 <lmat> warlord: How does that fight dependency hell?
11:55:25 <warlord> because we know that gnucash will compile with the given dependencies on anyone's platform.
11:55:36 <warlord> Also, no, 1.56 is no good. It's too new. FC20 only ships 1.54
11:56:12 <lmat> warlord: So fc20 developers should install 1.48, not 1.56 (they shouldn't use 1.54 in any case).
11:56:59 <warlord> lmat: you're not getting it. the point is to use the versions the distros ship.
11:57:05 <warlord> and make sure gnucash works with it.
11:57:18 <lmat> warlord: So we want gnucash to work with 1.48 through 1.56?
11:57:23 <warlord> Yes
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11:57:29 <lmat> warlord: Who's in charge of that!?
11:57:41 <lmat> warlord: That's asking for trouble...
11:57:45 <warlord> In charge of what? Choosing the lowest-available version?
11:57:55 <lmat> warlord: No, making sure it works with 1.48, 1.49, ...
11:57:56 <warlord> Why?
11:58:14 <warlord> It needs to work with the versions shipped with the major distros.
11:58:27 <lmat> warlord: Which are what?
11:58:31 <warlord> Who's in charge of testing? The users, in general, during the testing phase of pre-release.
11:58:52 <warlord> Generally RHEL/CentOS, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo...
11:59:11 <warlord> But we also need to take into account Mac and Windows builds, although we have a bit more control over those ourselves.
11:59:37 <warlord> But generally, if you target a particular minimum version, you generally work on "newer" versions.
11:59:41 <warlord> *generally*
12:00:01 <lmat> warlord: For instance, I was making submissions using boost 1.56. It obviously wasn't working on 1.48, but nobody caught it. These will not be caught by users because the code can't even compile!
12:00:57 <warlord> the fact that the code can't compile would most definitely be caught by someone trying to build it on Debian Stable.
12:01:15 <warlord> We're just not at that testing point.
12:02:24 <lmat> warlord: So submissions should work with some version of boost between 1.48 and 1.56? And it doesn't matter which?
12:03:42 <warlord> No, all code should work with ALL versions of <dependency> between <minimum> and <current>. Generally there's not a LARGE gap between <min> and <current>, and also, generally, if code works with <min> it will work with all versions between <min> and <current> for most dependencies that don't go out of their way to break their APIs
12:04:26 <warlord> I've rarely found code that, when written against boost version A wont also compile against boost version B when B > A
12:04:34 <lmat> warlord: Is it the submitter's responsibility to ensure that his submission works with all versions?
12:04:57 <warlord> It is the submitter's responsibility to make sure it works with the minimum version.
12:05:45 <lmat> warlord: And whoever happens to compile on 1.52 is responsible for making sure it works with 1.52?
12:07:06 <warlord> lmat: if it works with 1.48 there is a 99.999% chance it will work with 1.52
12:07:23 <warlord> (please show me a counter-example if you think I'm wrong)
12:07:37 <lmat> warlord: A counter example won't prove you wrong ;-)
12:07:50 <lmat> warlord: I agree.
12:08:14 <lmat> warlord: I think boost is largely backward compatible. I also understand that backward compat is not a boost goal.
12:09:01 <warlord> Note that there's a difference between API compatibility and ABI compatbility. It's probably not ABI compatible, but that's okay. It generally is API compatible.
12:09:06 <warlord> ... which is all we care about.
12:09:08 <lmat> sure, sure.
12:09:33 <lmat> warlord: So I was in the wrong a long time ago when I submitted code that broke the build against boost 1.48.
12:10:44 <jralls> For the record, Debian stable has boost 1.49, but Jessie, the current testing, is going to code freeze in two weeks for a likely release as stable in March. It has 1.55.
12:10:46 <warlord> technically, yes.
12:11:16 <warlord> jralls: okay, so what does RHEL ship with? FC20 has 1.54
12:11:29 <warlord> I suspect EL7 is an early 1.5x
12:12:27 <jralls> RHEL doesn't provide boost. Anyone wanting to build on RHEL will have to install boost themselves from a fedora rpm.
12:12:46 <jralls> Or build it, which is pretty easy.
12:13:03 <warlord> It's not in EPEL?
12:13:12 <jralls> What's EPEL?
12:13:22 <warlord> "Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux"
12:13:40 * warlord doesn't have an el7 system around to test quickly
12:15:49 <jralls> Nope, not in EPEL, unless they've given it a goofy name: http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/7/x86_64/repoview/letter_b.group.html
12:17:32 <warlord> interesting.
12:17:45 <jralls> Anyway, when I changed the min version to 1.48 at the request of a Wheezy user I warned that it would be temporary because there were new facilities and C++11 improvements in 1.53.
12:18:46 <jralls> http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2014-July/037890.html
12:19:45 <jralls> If 1.48 has a bug that's another reason to bump the minimum version, too bad for Wheezy users.
12:22:31 <warlord> I suspect that if testing is moving to stable in March that's probably sufficient reason to move the debian minimum. Was there nothing else that old?
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12:25:47 <jralls> For what value of "nothing else"? There are dozens of distros, but Debian and RHEL/Centos are the most conservative that I know about.
12:30:39 <jralls> FWIW I last built gnucash master on Wheezy on the 9th and committed a couple of changes to lmat's kvp-value patch, bc2d15e0, one of which works around a bug in boost 1.56.
12:34:56 * jralls started another build on Wheezy with today's master.
12:41:52 <lmat> jralls: I assume that when you say Wheezy, it's with boost 1.48?
12:42:56 <jralls> Wheezy provides 1.49, as I said at 09:10 PDT.
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12:52:08 <lmat> jralls: I don't see that... I see "Debian stable has boost 1.49" at 09:10 PDT, and "...I changed the min version to 1.48 at the request of a Wheezy user..." later.
12:53:10 <lmat> jralls: oh, by the way, the commit that introduced the breaking change seems to be 26a49f96, "Implement GUID using boost's implementation", although I didn't thoroughly check.
12:54:05 <jralls> Wheezy is the current stable. Jessie is currently testing, until it's released next spring as the new stable.
12:56:34 <lmat> jralls: Ahh!! I had thought that Wheezy is an Ubuntu name, thanks!
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12:58:25 <jralls> lmat: Hah! No, Ubuntu names are adjective-animal, so it would be "wheezy wombat" or something. Besides, Ubuntu generally gets their packages from Debian unstable and often releases beta versions on their users.
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13:00:33 <lmat> :)
13:02:52 <jralls> Speaking of broken builds, though, looks like you missed a file on the kvp_frame->KvpFrame change:
13:02:55 <jralls> ../../../../../src/backend/xml/test/test-kvp-frames.c:19:19: error: unknown type name ‘kvp_frame’
13:03:10 <lmat> ouch
13:04:11 <lmat> jralls: I can't get that far in compilation :(
13:07:18 <jralls> Either add the workaround Derek suggested or switch to boost 1.49.
13:07:37 <lmat> jralls: I'm not sure how to add the workaround, so I'll happily use boost 1.49.
13:10:00 <jralls> BTW, the easy way to test across a bunch of platforms is to set up VMs for them. You can either give each a git repo and use the host machine's repo as a remote or just share the host machines's repo with a build directory. The latter can cause trouble with autotool versions so I prefer the former.
13:11:18 <lmat> jralls: Do you use complete VMs, or chroots?
13:12:05 <warlord> lmat: you can just globally set the flag.
13:13:47 <lmat> warlord: Ah, I wouldn't have thought of that :)
13:15:39 <jralls> lmat: Complete VMs. My host is a Mac, so Linux needs to be virtualized anyway. I keep some Debian and Fedora VMs, as well as Win7 and WinXP ones, for testing.
13:15:51 <lmat> I see
13:16:14 <jralls> I just pushed a fix for test-kvp-frames.c
13:16:46 <lmat> ah, I see, thanks!
13:18:28 <jralls> I also use a Linux VM for making the release tarballs, mostly because I sometimes have trouble on OSX getting distcheck to work correctly.
13:20:13 <jralls> I guess you could use chroots for different versions of things on Linux, but there would be a lot of script-writing to set them up and maintain them. With VMs you just install different distros.
13:20:28 <lmat> jralls: right
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16:10:04 <Lingo> hi
16:11:14 <Lingo> can someone help me with a gnucash question on os x?
16:13:01 <warlord> Lingo: go ahead and ask.
16:13:49 <Lingo> thanks, my decimal separator is a "," can i change it to a "." ?
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16:16:34 <Lingo> for example now it says: 1.000,00
16:16:47 <Lingo> i would like it to display: 1,000.00
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16:18:46 <Lingo> it says i should change the LC_MONETARY envrionment variable
16:18:51 <Lingo> someone knows how to do this?
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16:22:54 <warlord> Lingo: what's your system locale set to? jralls ?
16:23:10 <Lingo> to Spanish
16:23:49 <warlord> Spain Spanish? Mexican Spanish? ...??
16:24:43 <Lingo> yes
16:24:52 <Lingo> es_ES
16:24:55 <Lingo> Spain
16:25:48 <warlord> Then why do you want a non-spanish numeric/monetary setting?
16:26:35 <warlord> LC_MONETARY would change € to something else if you changed it. I think you want LC_NUMERIC to change the separator character.
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16:27:05 <Lingo> yes sounds better
16:27:24 <Lingo> do i set it form the terminal?
16:29:29 <jralls> Yes, but not with environment variables. On OSX Gnucash ignores the localization environment variables and uses "defaults".
16:30:13 <kimmo2> warlord, any setting I can use to force gc to treat both comma and period as decimal separators, without touching my system locale?
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16:32:57 <jralls> Lingo: So from the command line say "defaults write -app Gnucash AppleLocale 'es_ES@currency=USD
16:33:40 <jralls> dang. That needs a closing ', and using ' not " around the value is important.
16:33:59 <Lingo> why i'm i changing the currency?
16:34:26 <Lingo> or i'm setting es_ES for usd only?
16:34:45 <jralls> Because libc localization is stupid and formats money values according to a currency locale.
16:35:05 <Lingo> xD
16:35:13 <Lingo> but that will replace my local currency with usd?
16:35:32 <jralls> So you'll want to go into both Preferences and File>Properties and set the default currency back to EUR.
16:35:44 <Lingo> ok
16:35:46 <Lingo> let me try that
16:35:52 <jralls> All of the account currencies will stay the same.
16:36:48 <Lingo> nop
16:36:50 <Lingo> did't work
16:39:18 <Lingo> where can i edit my defaults with a text editor?
16:41:10 <jralls> ~/Library/Preferences/org.gnucash.Gnucash.plist.
16:41:37 <jralls> But it's generally better to use the defaults command.
16:42:21 <warlord> kimmo2: not that the same time...
16:42:28 <jralls> Try setting the locale to en_US. It won't change the language on you, that's separate.
16:42:39 <Lingo> ok
16:42:43 <Lingo> so i do:
16:42:57 <jralls> Using defaults write -app Gnucash AppleLocale 'en_US'
16:43:03 <Lingo> defaults write -app Gnucash AppleLocale "en_US"
16:43:07 <Lingo> oh ok
16:43:12 <warlord> Lingo: did you restart gnucash after making the change?
16:43:18 <Lingo> yes
16:43:28 <jralls> No, single quotes. If you use double quotes it doesn't work.
16:44:01 <Lingo> i wrote it several times, will that break the defaults file?
16:44:31 <Lingo> yay!! that worked
16:44:38 <Lingo> en_US
16:44:44 <jralls> If you used double quotes it doesn't do anything. If you use single quotes it overwrittes whatever is there.
16:45:04 <Lingo> if i use no quotes doesn't do anything either?
16:47:21 <kimmo2> warlord, hrm, my libreoffice calc uses , as the separator by default, I wonder why
16:50:34 <jralls> Lingo: No quotes seems to work as long as there's no @ in the locale.
16:50:48 <Lingo> cool
16:51:08 <Lingo> it worked but i don't see the org.gnucash.Gnucash.plist. file
16:51:21 <Lingo> i only see several files starting with com
16:53:01 <jralls> Did you look in /Library/Preferences instead of ~/Library/Preferences?
16:54:28 <Lingo> nop, i'll see there
16:55:10 <Lingo> i see a .GlobalPreferences.plist
16:57:41 <jralls> You should have one of them in both /Library/Preferences and ~/Library/Preferences
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16:58:18 <Lingo> it's weird i don't see it
16:58:24 <jralls> Try from the command line: file ~/Library/Preferences/org.gnucash.Gnucash.plist
16:59:26 <Lingo> Apple binary property list
17:00:07 <Lingo> there it is xD
17:00:38 <Lingo> thanks a lot
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18:58:05 <tkeriduN> Hey guys. Newbie engineer from sweden here. Thought I'd simply start out by forking and editing the Swedish account plan since it's a little outdated and the account keys are a bit off. I've checked out the account file and it looks pretty ok as a first small project. Anyone got tips or suggestions?
19:02:03 <tkeriduN> Uh, and girls too perhaps I should say.
19:23:42 <lmat> tkeriduN: What's the sweedish account plan?
19:27:41 <tkeriduN> The account plan that comes bundled with gnucash. I guess it's only visible if you run with swedish locales.
19:29:12 <tkeriduN> lmat, https://github.com/tkeriduN/gnucash/tree/master/accounts/sv_SE
19:29:56 <lmat> tkeriduN: oh, yeah! great!
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20:02:29 <warlord> tkeriduN: please, feel free to improve it.
20:09:56 <tkeriduN> Do any of you know... Each .xea file is a separate account plan, right? Because there's two here, but they are pretty much the same. Are they dependent of eachother somehow or can i just make one of them complete and maybe add another plan with private accounts? (Both of these are sole proprietor accounts plans.)
20:14:41 <warlord> No, generally they are not separate.
20:15:01 <warlord> Generally there is one main hierarchy that gets broken up into different sub-components.
20:15:30 <warlord> They are co-dependent -- you need to make sure that common accounts in all plans use the same GUID
20:15:37 <warlord> (and name)
20:18:24 <tkeriduN> warlord: I see. I'll only change the names and numbering to begin with then. How can I get/generate/make a guid for a new account?
20:18:50 <tkeriduN> OR where can I learn about this. Didn't even google it.
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20:24:56 <tkeriduN> Ok I think I get it, but I don't understand entirely which accounts are common. None of these two plans at least have no common accounts at all.
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20:25:59 <warlord> Well, actually, you need to make sure that common accounts are EXACTLY the same in all files.
20:26:16 <warlord> The best way to do this is to have a single master file and then literally break it apart into smaller files.
20:26:48 <warlord> tkeriduN: there's no way to have no common accounts. The top level accounts will be common. E.g. "Assets", "Expenses", etc.
20:28:52 <tkeriduN> Ohhh I see! But besides the top level accounts I'm good to go ahead and copying an account block, pasting it underneath, one of the others and changing the data - making sure the guid is actually unique- and I'll have a new account?
20:31:43 <warlord> Well..... the structure doesn't quite work that way -- you need to make sure the "upward" references are correct.
20:32:07 <warlord> The account list in XML is a list, not a tree. The tree gets formed by GUID linking of child to parent.
20:32:16 <warlord> So you need to make sure your references are correct.
20:32:46 <warlord> So, I'll repeat what I've said before: you're best off creating a single master file hierarchy, saving that, and then pruning it to make your multiple files.
20:34:39 <tkeriduN> Ok, I can see the structure and the parent references now. I have no idea of how to do what you just said...
20:38:21 <tkeriduN> You mean I make a separate file for each account and then somehow put them all together into one in the end?
20:44:08 <warlord> No
20:44:32 <warlord> Use GnuCash to create a master file with every account. Save that off.
20:45:06 <warlord> Then prune the tree ... save. reload the master. prune... save.. lather, rinse, repeat.
20:45:19 <warlord> Then convert from .gnucash XML to the XEA format by wrapping it appropriately.
20:46:23 <warlord> .. wrapping each of the pruned data files... and modifying the guids from data-file to xea-file format
20:48:01 <warlord> (e.g.,change act:id type="guid" to act:id type="new"
20:50:43 <tkeriduN> Ah! Yes! Then I've been doing the right thing all night! So I make the account plan in gnucash, export it as xml and modify the xml by changing the act:id type from guid to new?
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20:51:37 <tkeriduN> I had a feeling it would be easier to do in gnucash, so I started it there a few hours ago, simply hoping it would be possible to use as template somehow...
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21:00:15 <warlord> it is... with some minor changes.
21:02:08 <tkeriduN> well, sweet! In that case I'm like one fifth on my way to finish.
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21:17:39 <warlord> There ya go.
21:17:42 <warlord> Isn't it late over there?
21:23:11 <tkeriduN> 3:23 am
21:24:03 <tkeriduN> But I'm fresh outta college so I'm used to it :P
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22:33:55 <warlord> LOL. Ok.
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