2014-10-16 GnuCash IRC logs

00:07:57 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
00:28:10 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
00:36:28 *** AndreeeCZ_ has joined #gnucash
00:38:10 *** StuM has joined #gnucash
00:57:17 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
00:58:37 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
01:46:31 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
02:21:11 *** AndreeeCZ__ has joined #gnucash
02:21:54 *** fell_ has joined #gnucash
02:21:54 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_
02:30:29 *** AndreeeCZ_ has quit IRC
02:33:27 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
02:52:21 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
02:52:35 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
02:52:35 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
03:13:42 *** Jimraehl1 has left #gnucash
03:24:11 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
03:40:39 *** AndreeeCZ__ has quit IRC
03:45:21 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
04:08:57 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
04:11:17 *** wol has joined #gnucash
04:14:22 *** StuM has quit IRC
04:15:13 *** andy has quit IRC
04:20:35 *** AndreeeCZ__ has joined #gnucash
04:22:05 *** andy has joined #gnucash
04:52:59 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
05:19:41 *** lmat has joined #gnucash
05:19:59 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
05:21:36 *** lmat is now known as lmat_
05:21:44 *** lmat_ is now known as lmat
05:30:19 <lmat> How do I tell what file I have loaded with gnucash?
05:30:31 <lmat> (full path, by the way!)
05:39:49 *** wol1 has joined #gnucash
05:40:47 *** Gbarr1 has joined #gnucash
05:41:22 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
05:41:37 *** wol1 has quit IRC
05:45:01 *** wol has quit IRC
05:50:05 <gjanssens> lmat: in the master version you can hover with your mouse first entry in the recent files list of the File menu
05:50:21 <gjanssens> The full path should then appear in the status bar at the bottom of your gnucash window
05:50:48 <gjanssens> For older versions do File->Save as...
05:51:01 <lmat> gjanssens: hmm...So I need to understand that the first item in the recent items list is the current item, not the last item :)
05:51:25 <gjanssens> The save dialog should open in the directory where the file is currently saved
05:51:34 <lmat> gjanssens: sure.
05:51:53 <lmat> gjanssens: I think I'll add a patch to my gnucash that spits out the file name that it's loading any time it loads one (on std out).
05:52:09 <lmat> gjanssens: Are you aware that I recently lost a lot of accounting data?
05:52:40 <gjanssens> lmat: no I wasn't
05:52:47 <gjanssens> How did that happen ?
05:52:52 <lmat> gjanssens: It will help you understand my line of questioning :) I think I had worked on an older backup of my gnucash file. This theory has problems, though
05:52:59 <lmat> I looked through the older ones and can't find any data past July or so.
05:53:33 <lmat> gjanssens: So now I'm quite paranoid about what file I'm working on.
05:53:56 <gjanssens> Right
05:54:23 <gjanssens> The top-most item in the recently used items is your current file
05:54:51 <gjanssens> Unless you keep multiple instances of gnucash open with different files
05:55:03 <gjanssens> Then it will really be the last one you opened
05:55:14 <gjanssens> Which may not be the one you're currently looking at
05:55:27 <lmat> gjanssens: ahh
05:55:44 <kimmo2> has the number of "recent files" entries config changed from 2.4 to 2.6? I have 10 entries in 2.4 (I remember spending an hour to figure out how to do it), but in 2.6 it's back to 4... running on the same computer
05:56:34 <gjanssens> kimmo2: we changed the preferences backend from 2.4 to 2.6
05:56:37 <kimmo2> (I have more than 4 instances whose books I keep so I sort of need it)
05:56:42 <kimmo2> ah, how do I do it in 2.6?
05:56:51 <gjanssens> Which os ?
05:56:54 <kimmo2> or is it intuitive this time, from gnucash's menus?
05:56:55 <kimmo2> linux
05:57:13 <kimmo2> for 2.4 I had to do some weird gconfig shit if I remember correctly
05:57:16 <lmat> people still use linux?
05:57:27 <kimmo2> still?
05:57:42 <lmat> kimmo2: Just kidding, my friend. I use GNU/Linux, too ^_^
05:58:13 <gjanssens> kimmo2: for 2.6 you have to do "some weird dconf shit" :)
05:58:46 <gjanssens> Actually you can install dconf-editor which is a nice gui interface to all settings stored in dconf
05:58:49 <kimmo2> whatever happened to good old file -> options?
05:59:13 <kimmo2> or tools -> preferences
05:59:15 <lmat> kimmo2: Go ahead and write the gui? ^_^
05:59:57 <kimmo2> I'm not sure I have enough free time to contribute to a program that changes core components in every major release
06:00:00 <kimmo2> ;)
06:00:02 <lmat> kimmo2: As warlord always says, "Patches welcome!"
06:00:06 <kimmo2> I know
06:00:07 <gjanssens> kimmo2: If we have to provide an interface for all configurable options, you'd need a separate manual to understand the preferences window only :(
06:00:16 <lmat> kimmo2: heh yeah, gnucash has been all the way around the block...lots of blocks!
06:00:34 <kimmo2> and as I was finishing up my reports for 1.4 (yes, 1.4), they released 1.6 and changed the plotting engine
06:00:49 <kimmo2> that's when I gave up and simply donated some greenbacks to IHTFP
06:00:57 <lmat> kimmo2: How did that affect you?
06:01:39 <kimmo2> the graphs in the reports were no longer supported...
06:01:48 <kimmo2> the graphs I wanted
06:02:04 <kimmo2> I wanted the line graphs that were available in 1.4, but the new engine in 1.6 was missing those
06:02:17 <gjanssens> Anyway, with dconf-editor you can alter /org/gnucash/history/maxfiles to the number you like.
06:02:19 <kimmo2> I like to plot account balances over time etc
06:02:25 <gjanssens> 10 is the maximum supported
06:02:47 <lmat> kimmo2: ahh, interesting. And what is ihtfp?
06:03:02 <gjanssens> ihtfp is warlord :)
06:03:03 <kimmo2> ihtpf is derek's company
06:03:20 <kimmo2> I now have a perpetual license to gnucash
06:03:21 <kimmo2> ;)
06:03:26 <gjanssens> LOL
06:03:28 <kimmo2> there's no maxfiles in the gui
06:03:35 <kimmo2> just lists file0 .. file4
06:03:41 <kimmo2> which is strange, since that's 5
06:03:56 <lmat> kimmo2: wow, I don't follow! Derek has a company doing what? I have a perpetual license to gnucash, too...right?
06:04:09 <kimmo2> but you haven't BOUGHT your license
06:04:13 <kimmo2> that's piracy
06:04:16 <kimmo2> and communism
06:04:19 <lmat> kimmo2: no way! it's gpl
06:04:26 <gjanssens> kimmo2: do you have installed gnucash in the standard prefix location (/usr/bin) ?
06:04:29 <lmat> kimmo2: communism...maybe
06:04:50 <kimmo2> gjanssens no, should it matter? my 2.4 is installed there
06:04:57 <kimmo2> but in 2.4 I have 10 files...
06:05:00 <lmat> kimmo2: and Derek doesn't own the code? Are you pulling my leg?
06:05:08 <kimmo2> :D
06:05:11 <gjanssens> lmat: he is :)
06:05:26 <kimmo2> hrm
06:05:31 <gjanssens> kimmo2: it matters
06:05:33 * lmat facepalm
06:05:50 <kimmo2> maybe this problem will go away next time I decide to upgrade the OS
06:05:53 <gjanssens> dconf-editor will only look for preferences in very specific locations
06:06:05 <lmat> gjanssens: Log this as one of my arguments against a settings registry :)
06:06:20 <kimmo2> ah, I thought it was some system-wide thing
06:06:28 <lmat> kimmo2: Right, the solution is: put in the recovery cd, ...
06:06:44 <gjanssens> But you can tell it where to find your real settings
06:07:03 <lmat> ouch. I really like /etc ^_^
06:07:09 <kimmo2> I usually upgrade my system just by reinstalling and restoring /home from backups
06:08:15 <lmat> kimmo2: cool. You get to exercise your recovery plan!
06:08:33 *** mikee_ has joined #gnucash
06:08:39 <kimmo2> indeed
06:08:40 <gjanssens> XDG_DATA_DIRS=/<path-to-your-gnucash-install>/share:${XDG_DATA_DIRS}:/usr/local/share:/usr/share dconf-editor
06:08:50 <gjanssens> kimmo2: that should do it
06:09:14 <kimmo2> okie
06:09:20 <gjanssens> lmat: it's actually an argument *for* a settings registry
06:09:33 <gjanssens> It's good behaviour that a custom install doesn't interfere with a formal install
06:09:39 <lmat> gjanssens: I knew you would think that :)
06:10:02 <kimmo2> there we go
06:10:08 <kimmo2> it's a good thing it's so intuitive!
06:10:15 <gjanssens> :)
06:10:26 <gjanssens> I didn't invent this... thank the gsettings creators
06:11:21 <kimmo2> at least it's easier for the devs this way since there's no bug reports about different versions using the same configs
06:11:32 *** mikee has quit IRC
06:11:32 *** mikee_ is now known as mikee
06:11:39 <kimmo2> and I don't think many people will be using multiple versions anyway
06:12:00 <gjanssens> exactly. Those were the motivations to set things up as they are now
06:12:35 <gjanssens> lmat: regarding a settings registry vs plain text file preferences storage
06:12:50 <kimmo2> but maybe have a File -> Options launch dconf-editor with only /org/gnucash visible, on the proper path?
06:12:52 <gjanssens> the plain text file has a few important shortcomings:
06:13:25 <gjanssens> 1. you can't modify preferences from multiple gnucash instances a the same time
06:13:43 <kimmo2> I have 7 instances running atm, plus a single 2.6 for testing
06:14:05 <lmat> kimmo2: That's just getting out of hand
06:14:05 <gjanssens> 2. as jralls recently pointed out: if we ever want to support ios, defaults is the only allowed way to store preferences on that platform
06:14:21 <lmat> kimmo2: Are you a developer, a bookkeeper, accountant?
06:14:38 *** Gbarr1 has quit IRC
06:14:41 <gjanssens> So we have to support native preferences backends anyway
06:14:51 <kimmo2> I'm an infrastructure architect, but bookkeeping is a hobby of mine
06:15:16 * gjanssens wonders if boost has some nice library to help us on this level...
06:15:16 <lmat> kimmo2: And you have bookkeeping clients?
06:15:23 <kimmo2> yes
06:15:24 <lmat> gjanssens: Of course!
06:15:29 <lmat> kimmo2: I see!
06:15:30 <gjanssens> :)
06:16:02 <kimmo2> plus I own 9 companies, and keep the books for the smaller ones
06:16:11 <lmat> So, has that double-prompt for new accounts created from a register been solved?
06:16:24 <lmat> man, I need more companies...
06:17:29 <gjanssens> lmat: I don't think that bug has been fixed
06:17:51 <gjanssens> As far as I know it only happens when using the register in journal or split mode
06:18:08 <kimmo2> how about ghost entries (empty) in the general ledger?
06:20:36 <gjanssens> kimmo2: I'm not sure
06:20:54 <warlord> Part of me really feels we should just go with an INI-file-like syntax..
06:21:15 <gjanssens> I know these were caused by having registers open at the same time as the general ledger
06:21:36 <gjanssens> The ghost entries were actually the "blank" lines from these registers
06:21:56 <gjanssens> I can't immediatly reproduce this on master, so maybe it's fixed by now
06:22:25 <kimmo2> gjanssens I remember them also appearing with nothing but the general ledger open
06:22:32 <kimmo2> I also remember that not being a real issue
06:23:00 <gjanssens> warlord: as said before there are drawbacks to each option...
06:24:00 <warlord> gjanssens: yep.. I know.
06:24:23 <warlord> INIfile means multiple instances of GNC will definitely conflct.
06:26:58 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
06:29:46 <lmat> warlord: That's what I like (ini file), but I'm not sure where to put the thing.
06:30:21 <lmat> warlord: with programs that "unzip" in place, one just sticks it in there, but if you "install" it to /usr/.. and /etc, trouble lies that way for multiple instances.
06:42:40 *** O01eg has joined #gnucash
06:51:02 <warlord> lmat: it depends on whether it's a system-global config, per-user config, per-datafile config, or per-user-per-datafile config..
06:51:24 <lmat> warlord: hey, that's some mental clarity!
06:51:58 <lmat> warlord: Exactly what was befuddling me. Given that, it would make sense to have scoped configuration... one in /etc/gnucash.conf (or whatever), and one possibly in ~/.gnucash.conf, etc. thanks!
06:53:26 <lmat> warlord: You've sidestepped the per-installation issue by going the normal direction of per-data file. I'm not sure if this is acceptable long-term, but it is tenable technically!
07:07:10 <warlord> lmat: when users share a data file there are spme settngs that really belong to the data and not the user. e.g. book default currency.
07:09:53 <lmat> warlord: ahh, yes! And currently that stuff is in gconf?
07:10:06 <warlord> some.
07:10:27 <warlord> we really need to go and properly categorize every pref.
07:14:54 <gjanssens> lmat: gconf was 2.4 and before
07:15:03 <gjanssens> lmat: think gsettings as of 2.6
07:15:31 <gjanssens> and gsettings as just a wrapper around a platform native preferences system
07:15:35 <lmat> gjanssens: Ahh, okay. They're not appreciably different in this regard?
07:16:04 <gjanssens> no. Both gconf and gsettings operate on the user level
07:16:26 <gjanssens> so settings stored in there inherently are shared by all data files of one user
07:16:44 <gjanssens> To be complete: gsettings is not the only place we store preferences
07:17:03 <gjanssens> We also store some in the book directly (like default currency)
07:17:27 <lmat> gjanssens: ah, thanks
07:17:31 <gjanssens> And some in an meta file in DOT_GNUCASH_DIR/books
07:17:44 <gjanssens> These are the per-book settings
07:18:17 <gjanssens> And in the switch from 2.4 to 2.6 I did move some preferences from gconf to this meta file instead of gsettings
07:18:38 <gjanssens> Things that should have been per-book all along
07:19:05 <gjanssens> Like column widths/visibility/sort order
07:19:19 <gjanssens> But this was only a first effort.
07:19:41 <gjanssens> As warlord says, we should really sort it out for all available options
07:20:00 <lmat> wow, look at all those settings! (I hadn't met ~/.gnucash/ yet)
07:20:58 <gjanssens> :)
07:25:23 *** himaxx has joined #gnucash
07:27:03 <lmat> I think I'm done re-inputting July :D
07:32:28 *** himaxx has quit IRC
07:33:01 *** himaxx has joined #gnucash
07:40:07 *** himaxx has quit IRC
07:40:37 *** himaxx has joined #gnucash
07:46:12 *** himaxx has quit IRC
07:48:41 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
08:01:42 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
08:10:46 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
08:15:18 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
08:20:48 <warlord> lmat: yay
08:32:19 *** mlncn has quit IRC
08:36:57 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
08:42:49 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
08:44:59 <jralls> gjanssens: Boost doean't provide much in the way of cross-platform abstractions. They don't see that as part of their mission.
08:50:59 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
08:54:10 <lmat> pretty sure I'm done with whatever month is after July :D
08:56:25 <warlord> jralls: except they *do* have an ini-file interface ;)
08:57:21 <jralls> warlord: So? Ini files aren't particular to any platform.
09:01:15 <warlord> okay, then what kind of 'cross-platform abstractions' are you talking about that boost doesn't provide?
09:03:24 <jralls> In this particular instance, access to dconf/windows registry/darwin defaults.
09:04:47 <jralls> But there's also all of the differences between POSIX and non-POSIX systems. File paths and process control come to mind.
09:07:41 <jralls> C++ itself has added some cross-platform abstractions for a few low-level things like threading, mutexes, and localization.
09:24:22 <mishehu> what standard of C++ has added these abstractions?
09:25:13 <mishehu> I know of libraries that implement that but perhaps I'm not up-to-date on the most recent ISO standard because I am unfamiliar with such things been added into the standard c++ library.
09:30:25 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
09:35:36 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
09:35:59 <jralls> mishehu: C++11's standard library added threads and mutexes and expanded localization and unicode support.
09:36:29 <mishehu> hmm didn't know. my most recent projects involved libraries built off of Poco
09:37:01 <mishehu> I seem to be working a lot more in C than C++ these days, though many things about C++ I prefer.
09:38:29 <mishehu> guess I'm out of date heh
09:41:33 *** mlncn-agaric has joined #gnucash
09:41:42 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
09:46:11 <jralls> mishehu: C++11 made a lot of changes to the language. Plenty of good info at http://isocpp.org.
09:46:43 *** mlncn has quit IRC
09:52:51 *** AndreeeCZ__ has quit IRC
10:05:17 <mishehu> jralls: yeah I already was pulling it up. haven't had a moment to check for the summary yet though
10:05:22 <mishehu> busy at work :-)
10:30:42 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
10:32:51 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
10:38:10 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
10:44:02 <lmat> alright, got september
10:44:15 <lmat> now I'm going to go cry myself to sleep
14:43:10 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
14:43:39 *** fell__ has joined #gnucash
14:43:39 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell__
14:45:29 *** fell_ has quit IRC
14:54:23 *** wol has joined #gnucash
15:02:39 *** fell__ has quit IRC
15:03:13 *** fell__ has joined #gnucash
15:03:14 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell__
15:12:29 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
15:13:44 *** Hamaryns has joined #gnucash
15:41:45 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
15:50:02 *** Hamaryns has quit IRC
16:19:01 <jralls> lmat: Have you done anything with Google test yet?
16:21:14 *** wol has quit IRC
16:21:24 *** wol has joined #gnucash
16:22:20 *** benjamin-agaric has joined #gnucash
16:26:26 <lmat> jralls: No, not yet. I haven't spent much time on gnucash development in the last week or two -- been moving then trying to recover my books.
16:27:48 *** mlncn-agaric has quit IRC
16:28:26 <jralls> lmat: OK. It looks like a pain to install on OSX, as it doesn't have an "install" target, explained at https://code.google.com/p/googletest/wiki/V1_7_FAQ#Why_is_it_not_recommended_to_install_a_pre-compiled_copy_of_Goog
16:30:28 <lmat> jralls: Why does the missing install target make it harder on Apple OSX than GNU/Linux ?
16:31:20 <jralls> Looking at Debian, it appears that they take that to heart by distributing it in source form as well.
16:31:44 <lmat> Oh, that's convenient
16:33:51 <jralls> So I guess it's no harder. It means that it either has to be built by hand or we have to build it as part of building GnuCash in both cases.
16:37:08 <lmat> yeah, I guess that'll need to be part of our make check...
16:38:56 <jralls> And configure.
16:41:27 *** wol has quit IRC
16:41:30 <lmat> jralls: yeah, configure will need to check for it.
16:44:58 <jralls> No, configure is going to have to configure it as well so that make check can build it. The tarball includes an m4 script for detecting it once built, but neither that nor the gtest-config script is included in the Debian package.
16:48:18 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
16:48:23 <lmat> jralls: I can't wait! :D
17:06:45 *** AndreeeCZ__ has joined #gnucash
17:14:32 *** hhn12 has quit IRC
17:17:22 *** gjanssens has quit IRC
17:23:09 *** wol has joined #gnucash
17:26:35 *** wol has quit IRC
17:40:38 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
17:56:17 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
17:56:25 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
17:56:26 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
17:56:26 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
18:10:48 *** fell has joined #gnucash
18:10:48 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell
18:12:50 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
18:13:16 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
18:14:09 *** agaric has joined #gnucash
18:15:59 *** benjamin-agaric has quit IRC
18:16:16 *** himaxx has joined #gnucash
18:17:36 *** agaric has quit IRC
18:19:46 *** fell__ has quit IRC
18:25:34 *** Coderjoe_ has joined #gnucash
18:29:31 *** Coderjoe has quit IRC
18:40:43 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
18:44:09 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
18:44:55 *** himaxx has quit IRC
19:11:56 *** Jimraehl1 has quit IRC
19:12:40 *** agaric has joined #gnucash
20:23:08 *** agaric has quit IRC
20:44:51 *** hhn12 has joined #gnucash
21:04:16 *** Gbarr has joined #gnucash
21:11:11 *** agaric has joined #gnucash
21:28:47 *** ErKa has quit IRC
21:34:44 *** vtkuga has joined #gnucash
21:40:36 *** vtkuga has quit IRC
21:45:46 *** Gbarr has quit IRC
21:56:46 *** ubergoober has joined #gnucash
22:20:16 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
22:29:00 *** fell has quit IRC
22:41:53 *** ErKa has quit IRC
23:07:51 *** kpreid has quit IRC
23:08:03 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
23:11:02 *** ubergoober has quit IRC
23:33:20 *** lmat has quit IRC