2014-10-12 GnuCash IRC logs
00:31:40 *** rolandc has joined #gnucash
00:32:14 <rolandc> Hi
00:33:30 *** rolandc has quit IRC
00:39:13 *** wol has joined #gnucash
00:41:15 *** hhn10 has quit IRC
00:56:22 *** wol has quit IRC
01:10:52 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
02:04:02 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
02:14:03 *** gjanssens has joined #gnucash
02:14:03 *** gncbot sets mode: +o gjanssens
02:24:56 *** AndreeeCZ has joined #gnucash
02:35:56 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
02:53:28 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
03:09:00 *** fell has joined #gnucash
03:09:00 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell
03:33:09 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
03:33:10 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
03:33:10 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
04:09:36 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
04:33:04 *** StuM has quit IRC
04:52:52 *** mikee was kicked by mikee (User terminated!)
04:53:02 *** mikee has joined #gnucash
04:53:02 *** gncbot sets mode: +o mikee
04:53:02 *** mikee has left #gnucash
04:53:28 *** mikee has joined #gnucash
04:53:28 *** gncbot sets mode: +o mikee
04:54:02 *** mikee has left #gnucash
04:55:06 *** mikee has joined #gnucash
04:55:07 *** gncbot sets mode: +o mikee
05:15:15 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
05:20:29 *** StuM has joined #gnucash
05:42:59 *** Jimraehl1 has left #gnucash
05:49:36 *** mlncn has quit IRC
05:49:59 *** wol has joined #gnucash
05:59:07 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
06:08:41 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
06:33:00 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
06:55:34 <warlord> linas: I suspect my deployment of bind might be too old for that.. maybe... but we can look into it.
06:55:44 <warlord> AXFR is via TCP so a bit harder to spoof.
06:57:11 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
06:57:12 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
06:57:12 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
07:03:53 *** warlord has quit IRC
07:07:57 *** wol has quit IRC
07:08:00 *** wol has joined #gnucash
07:52:42 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
07:59:54 *** mlncn has quit IRC
08:00:09 *** himaxx has joined #gnucash
08:07:15 *** himaxx has quit IRC
08:08:07 *** himaxx has joined #gnucash
08:15:08 *** himaxx has quit IRC
08:15:47 *** himaxx has joined #gnucash
08:27:51 *** himaxx has quit IRC
08:36:23 *** andy has quit IRC
08:49:51 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
08:52:12 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
08:52:29 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
08:52:29 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
08:58:56 *** mlncn has quit IRC
09:18:44 *** andy has joined #gnucash
09:35:36 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
09:58:20 *** AndreeeCZ has quit IRC
10:17:13 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
10:17:13 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
10:17:18 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
10:26:43 *** StuM has quit IRC
10:33:33 *** AndreeeCZ has joined #gnucash
10:45:47 *** lwells has joined #gnucash
10:47:12 <linas> I was reviewng & revamping all my server configs, and noticed that.
10:48:53 <linas> My logs show that I get either icmp redirect packets, or false domain updates ..maybe every 5-10 minutes all day long.
10:50:12 <linas> warlord, so whatever tools the script-kiddies are using, trying to mangle dns is one of the regular attacks.
10:51:17 <linas> not a big deal, I don't think, but I've had it set up and have been using signed zone xfer's since 2001, according to my logs.
10:51:39 <linas> so your bind is new enough, unless you're running something from 1998.
10:53:07 <linas> or rather: upgrde now while you have my attention, before my mind wanders away somwerhe.
10:56:35 *** mlncn has quit IRC
10:59:54 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
11:11:20 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
11:34:04 *** lwells has quit IRC
11:36:11 <fell> @tell Mechtilde The pair "Aktiva - Passiva" (= 1. level of balance sheet) is not so common in english, but all other languages, which I checked (romanic, germanic, finugric). Thats the reason, I replaced "equity & liability" with "Passiva" in the german translation.
11:36:11 <gncbot> fell: The operation succeeded.
12:12:58 *** jralls_afk has quit IRC
12:13:31 *** jralls_afk has joined #gnucash
12:14:15 *** mlncn has quit IRC
12:16:18 <jralls_afk> gjanssens: Thanks for taking care of releasing 2.6.4-2 for Windows.
12:28:29 *** jralls_afk is now known as jralls
12:28:32 <jralls> @op
12:28:33 *** gncbot sets mode: +o jralls
12:31:02 <kimmo2> I wish you could have a placeholder account that could hold both liability and equity account types
12:32:01 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
12:40:19 <jralls> kimmo2: Then you need to study a basic accounting book. Those are top-level categories and can't be combined.
12:48:13 <kimmo2> I know...
12:48:56 <kimmo2> but I'd just like two top level accounts, "Assets" and "Liabilities and equity"
12:48:59 <kimmo2> ;)
12:49:26 *** wol has joined #gnucash
12:51:14 <linas> but equity is the difference between assets and liabilities
12:55:12 <gjanssens> jralls: you're welcome
12:55:21 <jralls> kimmo2: Ah, are you European, where standard accounts are separated into "Active" and "Passive"?
12:56:45 <jralls> kimmo2: That's been on the radar for a while but it's difficult with the current architecture. We might be able to address it better after we've gotten the code cleaned up a bit -- in particular moving the business logic bits out of the GUI.
12:57:43 <jralls> gjanssens: Looks like we need to redo the themes stuff after all.
12:58:00 <kimmo2> jralls, yes...
12:58:18 <kimmo2> I can manage just fine, but my auditor gets confused
12:59:13 <kimmo2> I used to have equity accounts be liability types as well
12:59:40 <jralls> gjanssens: I also think that too much went into 2.6.4, so I'm leaning toward a more frequent release schedule, maybe 3 months instead of six. What do you think?
13:00:15 <jralls> kimmo2: Did that work out OK?
13:00:27 <kimmo2> sure
13:00:41 <jralls> kimmo2: Then why did you split Equity out?
13:00:51 <kimmo2> I don't even remember :D
13:01:34 <gjanssens> jralls: I saw the mail on the crashing "Metal" theme also
13:01:43 <kimmo2> I closed my sole proprietorship in 2006 to form an llc, and did the switch during that transition
13:01:46 <gjanssens> We do ship all old themes currently
13:02:04 <gjanssens> Did you rebuild the "standard themes" for Windows ?
13:02:21 <gjanssens> If so they may even be overwritten by the older ones
13:02:52 <gjanssens> jralls: I think indeed we'd better release a little more often
13:03:05 <gjanssens> I'm ok with trying the 3 months schedule
13:03:14 <kimmo2> jralls, I sort of remember first creating the new account tree, and then finding out I couldn't group them together, and then not bothering
13:03:33 <jralls> gjanssens: I did, but removed them from the gtk+ package after I figured out that cairo 1.12 had issues. The old themes seemed to work, so I put that back in. Obviously I didn't test all of them.
13:04:03 <gjanssens> Of course. There are way too many
13:04:33 <gjanssens> Personally I think this is a customization feature that has run out of hand
13:04:52 <jralls> kimmo2: OK. I guess for now you can either "bother" or find a more flexible auditor who doesn't get confused. ;-)
13:05:19 <gjanssens> Why should an application need to set themes ?
13:05:26 <gjanssens> For me that's an OS thing to do
13:05:54 <gjanssens> Sure, gtk doesn't talk to the Windows theme engine so that's rather hard in this case...
13:06:19 <kimmo2> jralls, she just nags about it once a year. I nag back.
13:06:26 <gjanssens> Anyway, if we ship with a more restricted set of "standard" themes, I think that should be sufficient
13:08:38 <jralls> gjanssens: There's a Windows theme engine? AFAIK the native UI draws widgets exactly one way, just like Mac. Gtk (and I imagine Qt) draw their own widgets and are therefore more flexible.
13:09:30 <kimmo2> hrm, evolution is kind of crashing on me
13:09:41 <kimmo2> any suggestions for a better mail client?
13:09:52 <gjanssens> jralls: from what I understand Windows is themable as well, meaning you can have different ways to draw natively
13:10:17 <gjanssens> I don't think it's used as widely as themes in linux though
13:10:29 <jralls> gjanssens: Interesting. Do they call it the API?
13:10:46 <gjanssens> Don't know ?
13:10:52 <jralls> kimmo2: How about Mac Mail? ;-)
13:11:01 <gjanssens> (it's been a while)
13:11:40 <kimmo2> that would require a mac...
13:12:38 <jralls> kimmo2: Not necessarily, but it would require upgrading to MacOSX. Google "hackintosh".
13:13:39 <gjanssens> jralls: ok ddg'd a bit: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/get-started-with-themes
13:13:41 <jralls> gjanssens: Oh, yeah, I remember that on XP and before. I've never messed with it on 7.
13:13:50 <gjanssens> Much less impressed with it now...
13:15:14 <jralls> gjanssens: Looks like it changes the background and the border color. Nothing like what gtk themes do.
13:15:51 <gjanssens> Indeed
13:16:02 <gjanssens> So no comparison at all...
13:16:37 <gjanssens> On the other hand that also means Windows users usually don't expect to ability to theme their apps
13:17:00 <jralls> gjanssens: Right. And I've never heard any complaints from Mac users about how ugly the unthemed Mac GnuCash.
13:17:14 <jralls> gjanssens: Even though it's pretty ugly.
13:17:39 <gjanssens> Which makes me wonder again why we go through all the effort of theming on that platform...
13:17:47 *** mlncn has quit IRC
13:18:11 <gjanssens> Oh well, it's not that much trouble
13:18:33 <jralls> Because someone, probably Christian Stimming, thought it a good idea, and as you say it's not that much trouble. Or at least it wasn't until now.
13:18:44 <gjanssens> Except that it appears the packages we relied upon are no longer maintained
13:19:18 <gjanssens> Which inevitably leads to some bitrot
13:19:33 <jralls> I do worry a bit that it's global, so it will impact any other Gtk apps that a user might run on Windows.
13:19:50 <gjanssens> So a reduced set of themes it will be
13:20:05 <gjanssens> Well the source code of the theme tool itself is available as well
13:20:25 <gjanssens> We could tweak it to write a special .gtkrc2.0-gnucash file instead of the global one
13:20:53 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
13:21:19 <jralls> Yeah, I've already chaecked it out from SVN. I'm going to make a new gtk-themes-minGW.tgz for 2.6.5.
13:21:54 <fell> kimmo2: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=421766 - support "Passive" account type (able to contain both Liability and Equity accounts)
13:22:00 <jralls> I like the idea of writing a custom file, but is gtk smart enough to use it?
13:23:11 <gjanssens> I don't know about gtk, but I do know gnucash actively looks for one and loads it if it finds one
13:23:26 <gjanssens> We document this in several places on the wiki
13:23:33 <gjanssens> So that should work
13:23:40 <gjanssens> (I'll do a quick test)
13:28:17 <gjanssens> jralls: it does work
13:28:35 <gjanssens> gnucash/gtk will use .gtkrc-2.0.gnucash if present
13:29:44 <jralls> OK, good. We could even add a check box on the gtk2_prefs window to make the theme global and set the filename accordingly.
13:31:06 <gjanssens> There is already a distinction between config for one user or system wide
13:31:26 <gjanssens> This could then become gnucash-only, one user or system wide
13:32:47 <fell> Hacking the glossary file, does the following sound well?
13:32:53 <fell> "account type: Active" "The left side of the balance sheet shows the application of funds in form of assets. Complement: Passive. Because it contains only assets use assets directly."
13:32:54 <fell> "account type: Asset" "A thing, esp. owned by a person or company, that has value and can be used or sold to pay debts. Dependent on the context you might use 'account type: Active' instead."
13:33:08 <fell> "account type: Passive" "The right side of the balance sheet shows the source of funds and contains equity & liability. While not common in english, most languages would translate 'equity & liability' with 'passive'. Complement: Active. Implementation: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=421766"
13:37:59 *** Ardonik has quit IRC
13:38:50 *** Ardonik has joined #gnucash
13:42:35 <fell> gjanssens, jralls: Any improvements or objections?
13:42:52 <jralls> fell: I don't know what a European balance sheet looks like, but an American one has two sections ("Assets" and "Liabilities and Equity") one above the other, not right and left. Perhaps it would be better to say "accounting equation" rather than "balance sheet".
13:43:57 <fell> Yep, english use the scale, continental the T account sheet.
13:46:24 <jralls> Fell: Income and expense accounts don't go on a balance sheet; do they need to be presented differently in European Income Statements (aka Profit and Loss reports)?
13:46:58 <jralls> They'd still be separate top-level accounts, not part of either Active or Passive, right?
13:47:49 <fell> Some use the stairs form, some the T form.
13:48:16 <fell> ffor the income statement.
13:49:49 <jralls> How do most European GC users handle that? Import to a word processor and make columns or indents?
13:50:29 <fell> Our reports have the indentation.
13:51:13 <fell> But if you use the T form, you will put income & expense in different columns.
13:53:42 *** gjanssens has quit IRC
13:58:34 <fell> Background: Once I replaced "Liabilities and Equity" in de.po with "Passiva" and now got a patch reverting it.
13:59:01 <jralls> fell: Yeah, I saw that.
13:59:45 <fell> So I thought we should traditional terms, not so common in english in the glossary,
13:59:57 <fell> put
14:00:37 <jralls> No problem with putting it in the glossary. Helpful, in fact.
14:02:02 <jralls> So I guess that you can either use "accounting equation" or add a note explaining that European balance sheets put the sections side-by-side.
14:02:26 <kimmo2> hrm
14:02:29 <kimmo2> can't drink anymore
14:04:34 <fell> The left side of the balance sheet in account form shows ...
14:05:31 <fell> (and will add "T account form" and "stairs form"
14:07:40 <kimmo2> stupid work tomorrow
14:16:16 <jralls> fell: OK.
14:20:26 <fell> "account form" "aka two-sided form is in Europe often used for the balance sheet. Complement: "
14:21:31 <jralls> I think it would be clearer to call it "T Account Form".
14:22:06 <fell> report form, vertical ~ or running ~ for the complement?
14:28:02 <jralls> Hmm. "Vertical Form" seems clearest to me.
14:28:09 <fell> Ack
14:29:57 <jralls> "Ack" as in "acknowledge" or as in "ack, thpppt!"?
14:30:03 <fell> 1
14:30:18 <fell> I don't know 2
14:30:32 <jralls> You have to know about the American comic strip "Bloom County" to know the second one.
14:35:03 <fell> Pulitzer Prize in editorial cartooning in 1987
14:55:17 *** fell_ has joined #gnucash
14:55:18 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_
14:57:01 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
15:00:27 *** fell has quit IRC
15:18:23 *** fell_ is now known as fell
15:22:31 <fell> jralls: gwenhywfar is included in the mac builds?
15:23:18 <jralls> fell: Yes. I imagine you're looking at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738375.
15:23:46 <fell> Yes, got it just on the screen.
15:24:09 <fell> Some path problem?
15:26:04 <jralls> Probably. It works OK in the build directory, so either something's not set up right in the launcher script or something's missing from the bundle.
15:34:40 *** mlncn has quit IRC
15:38:03 <jralls> Hmm. Logging gwen shows that it's looking in the wrong path. Looks like Martin hard-coded relative to the executable path and broke application bundles.
15:40:22 <fell> Assign it to import->aqbanking. Then CStim can ask him.
15:41:26 <fell> with an example, how it is done in the MACOS bundle.
15:43:22 <jralls> It's already fixed in svn. But I know how to talk to him myself, and Christian doesn't have much time for GnuCash these days. I'll just fix it up locally and make a new bundle.
16:10:56 <fell> /backend/dbi/sqlite3/store_and_reload: <FATAL WARNING> (gnc.backend.dbi) [conn_test_dbi_library()] Test_DBI_Library: Unsigned longlong Failed 9223372036854775807 != 0
16:11:45 <fell> and three more, Double Failed too
16:20:51 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
16:27:09 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
16:27:10 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
16:30:15 *** mlncn has quit IRC
16:30:31 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
16:31:46 <fell> warlord: I just got a timeout on a commit, but fetching again, it was there.
16:34:37 *** jralls has quit IRC
16:58:23 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
16:58:57 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
16:58:57 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
17:28:53 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
17:28:57 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
17:28:57 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
17:34:04 *** AndreeeCZ has quit IRC
17:35:28 *** jralls has joined #gnucash
17:35:28 *** gncbot sets mode: +o jralls
17:37:42 <warlord> fell: which repo?
17:37:55 *** fell_ has joined #gnucash
17:37:56 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_
17:43:33 *** fell has quit IRC
17:47:54 *** hhn10 has joined #gnucash
18:24:06 *** StuM has joined #gnucash
18:32:26 *** fell_ has quit IRC
18:42:47 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
19:41:19 *** mlncn has quit IRC
19:42:07 *** mlncn-agaric has joined #gnucash
20:03:42 *** mlncn-agaric has quit IRC
20:44:57 *** Absurd-Mind has quit IRC
20:49:54 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
22:03:33 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
22:08:39 *** Absurd-Mind has joined #gnucash
22:09:44 *** fell_ has joined #gnucash
22:09:45 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_
22:32:01 *** hhn10 has quit IRC
22:32:32 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
22:37:29 *** fell_ has quit IRC
22:47:57 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
22:53:08 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
22:59:40 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
23:14:30 *** gjanssens has joined #gnucash
23:14:30 *** gncbot sets mode: +o gjanssens
23:42:11 *** uXus has quit IRC
23:46:18 *** uXus has joined #gnucash
23:50:07 *** wol has joined #gnucash