2014-10-02 GnuCash IRC logs

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05:12:32 <gjanssens> @tell fell I read the note you left me yesterday evening via the logs but I can't make gncbot tell me. You should not add a : to the nick you are telling something.
05:12:32 <gncbot> gjanssens: The operation succeeded.
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06:42:49 <StevenV> Hi, I have a question
06:43:52 <StevenV> since the update to 2.6.4 i can't click on 'account' dropdown box when i'm on a transaction
06:44:09 <StevenV> anyone who has an idea why this is?
06:45:15 <gjanssens> StevenV: yes due to a bug that's not fixed yet: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737646
06:46:00 <gjanssens> If you depend on the dropdown, you probably better revert to 2.6.3 for now.
06:47:45 <StevenV> ok, thx. since the bug is known, i'm guessing it won't take too long before it's fixed. so i'll copy paste for now.
06:51:51 <StevenV> Thx for your fast reply, since that was my only question, i'm leaving now.
06:52:43 <StevenV> Ow yeah, by the way, gnucash rocks
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07:30:05 <gjanssens> fell_: I checked the merge issue
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07:30:27 <gjanssens> One conflict was simply the version bump
07:30:42 <gjanssens> That conflict will always be there right after a release
07:31:10 <gjanssens> The second conflict was in a trailing whitespace that was different between maint and master
07:31:24 <gjanssens> Got both fixed during the merge
07:31:43 <fell> Ah, thanks!
07:31:43 <gncbot> fell: Sent 2 hours and 19 minutes ago: <gjanssens> I read the note you left me yesterday evening via the logs but I can't make gncbot tell me. You should not add a : to the nick you are telling something.
07:32:16 <fell> Oh
07:32:21 <gjanssens> Another git tip: if you commit patches by someone else you may use the --author command line switch to properly attribute the patch to the real author
07:32:43 <gjanssens> like git commit --author "name <e@mail>" -m "message"
07:33:11 <gjanssens> That's the git way of setting authorship.
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07:33:43 <gjanssens> Since such feature didn't exist in svn, we used to have a rule to add the "Author" line in the comments
07:33:53 <gjanssens> That's obsolete now :)
07:34:03 <fell> OK, can you add it to the wiki page and review my changes of the last days?
07:35:58 <fell> @notes gjanssens:
07:35:58 <gncbot> fell: Sent 4 weeks, 0 days, 13 hours, and 24 minutes ago: <jralls> Geert, that message isn't about stuff not getting saved in SQL, it's about fixing user's commodity tables when they screw up and create a commodity in the 'template' namespace. As I'm sure you know, the 'template' namespace is reserved for Scheduled Transactions and it doesn't display in the commodity editor. You must have created the Au commodity in (1 more message)
07:37:59 <gjanssens> fell: that shows the note indeed, but I can't remove it
07:38:16 <gjanssens> Because I'm not gjanssens:, I'm gjanssens (without the colon)
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07:38:48 <gjanssens> I tried to become gjanssens: but the colon is automatically removed or I get a "invalid nick" error
07:39:09 * gjanssens is reading fell's changes to the Git wiki page
07:43:58 <fell> There were a few more like Translation, Documentation Release Process
08:10:54 <gjanssens> fell: for the authorship I have updated this section: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Git#Patches_and_Pull_Requests
08:11:41 <gjanssens> Last week we talked about rebasing local branches before pushing them upstream
08:12:12 <gjanssens> This appears to be mentioned already: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Git#Bugs_and_New_Features
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08:20:11 <gjanssens> fell: on the Documentation Release Process you have added a note that if a merge would create artefacts you should use cherry-pick.
08:20:16 <gjanssens> Where does that come from ?
08:26:27 <fell> No, that was jralls.
08:26:41 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/index.php?title=Documentation_Release_Process&diff=prev&oldid=11369
08:28:29 <fell> Ahem, it was there I did only some reformating on the section
08:29:50 <gjanssens> Oh, IC
08:31:18 <fell> Lunch
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08:32:38 <gjanssens> IMO we should try to merge instead whenever possible. Cherry-picking should only be used when a change was committed to master and afterwards we find it should also be applied to maint
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09:03:06 <fell> gjanssens perhaps it was there from the old backport policy?
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09:11:46 <fell_> But I think it is useful on pull branches, which have artefacts like "manual merge" instead of rebase.
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09:36:19 <fell> gjanssens: about gnucash-nl, http://xl2qif.chez-alice.fr/calc2qif_en.php could help Arjen.
09:42:12 <gjanssens> fell: I agree cherry-pick can a be useful to clean up local branches before pushing upstream
09:42:27 <gjanssens> That's however not something that should happen during a release preparation
09:42:41 <gjanssens> So I have removed that line from the documentation release process page.
09:43:25 <gjanssens> Besides cherry-picking you can also use interactive rebasing by the way.
09:43:29 <gjanssens> (git rebase -i)
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09:45:48 <fell> Perhaps http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Git#Committers would be the right place to explain it?
09:46:07 <fell> Why, pro, con
09:49:23 <gjanssens> Hmm, what do you want to have explained ?
09:49:43 <gjanssens> I don't feel like making our Git page a manual on using git...
09:50:15 <gjanssens> There are many ways to achieve the same thing in git
09:50:43 <gjanssens> So I think it's better to explain which result we want to achieve rather than the commands to achieve it
09:50:56 <fell> Use rebase -i instead of cherry-pick, because ...
09:51:29 <gjanssens> That's a nice example of two different ways to achieve the same thing
09:52:01 <gjanssens> I just pointed this out to offer options, not to mandate one over the other
09:52:27 <gjanssens> You may like one way better than the other. That's all
09:52:49 <gjanssens> I use both commands by the way
09:52:56 <fell> The git page should have some "best practise" because there are to many ways for beginners.
09:53:22 <gjanssens> Ok
09:53:26 <fell> (I needed ~9 month)
09:53:58 <gjanssens> I think the "best practise" principles are there by now, however not everything is written down in exact commands each time
09:54:08 <gjanssens> Because that is not possible imo
09:54:30 <fell> from svn, but a documenter or translater perhaps never heard about dcvs before.
09:55:09 <gjanssens> What you you mean with this ?
09:56:14 <kimmo2> I think best practices are attained by unlearning everything that's got anything to do with cvs and svn...
09:57:12 <fell> I came from svn, but now got much more ways, to do the same thing and a few of them are suboptimal.
09:57:30 <gjanssens> kimmo2: :D
09:58:53 <gjanssens> fell: agreed. I went the same path. Svn has a different way of doing things and it's actually a disadvantage if you started there.
09:58:54 <fell> Somebody who wish to commit a translation or a chapter of documentation will perhaps choose the less efficient way.
09:59:23 <gjanssens> It's probably slightly easier if you learn git and never have heard of svn or cvs
09:59:43 <kimmo2> still, saying "git is confusing" is like saying that "perl is bad because it lets stupid people do stupid things"
10:00:12 <gjanssens> As for new committers: I think it's better to guide the bit by bit
10:00:31 <gjanssens> They will inevitably interact with more experienced users (us committers)
10:00:47 <kimmo2> I can't say that I miss individual revision numbers
10:00:59 <gjanssens> So I think it would be helpful to give them as little basis as possible, a low barrier
10:01:10 <kimmo2> I sometimes miss $Head$ but I solved that with rcs-keywords ;)
10:01:34 <gjanssens> Like direct commands to clone and check out make changes, add, commit and generate a pull request
10:01:39 <kimmo2> I think maybe 5 lines "here's how to commit a single file, prepare a patch, and be done with it"
10:01:47 <kimmo2> anything more, they'll want to learn more
10:02:20 <gjanssens> If that's pull request has to be rebased, a committer can do this and guide the translator in rebasing his branch
10:02:54 <gjanssens> A large document providing all the possible options and best practises will just become too complicated and miss its target audience
10:03:30 <fell> Example: I got a pull request for an active working branch
10:03:31 <gjanssens> A good set of more generic guidelines is useful as a tool for more experienced contributors
10:05:38 <gjanssens> fell: yes ?
10:06:54 <fell> yep, so at least in Tranlation and Documentation Update Instructions, we should say do that not.
10:09:07 <gjanssens> Do you mean the pull request is for maint or master ?
10:10:01 <fell> it was on trunk
10:10:30 <fell> but should have been applied on maint.
10:11:00 <fell> Thats where I started to review the pages.
10:13:12 <fell> Often they were describing the old SVn strategy but with git commands.
10:19:53 <gjanssens> Ok, that is a good reason to review the docs
10:20:05 <gjanssens> And especially the principles explained therein
10:20:39 <gjanssens> SVN principle was: make all changes on trunk, cherry-pick bugfixes to release branch
10:21:03 <gjanssens> Git principle is: make changes on "oldest" branch that needs them and merge to newer branches
10:21:31 <gjanssens> If these are clearly documented, the commands to use are less important
10:21:41 <fell> I hope, I replaced all occurrences of that.
10:21:52 <gjanssens> Although I don't mind having a few basic examples
10:22:09 <gjanssens> Thanks for that
10:22:31 <fell> But I am not really happy with http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Translation#Submitting_your_work_direct_to_GnuCash
10:22:57 <gjanssens> In general I think gnucash follows git's overall best practises.
10:22:58 <fell> But imagine, you never heared about vcs.
10:23:03 <gjanssens> We don't do anything special
10:23:10 <gjanssens> I heard of cvs :)
10:23:21 <gjanssens> I even used it a *looong* time ago
10:23:48 <fell> vcs is general: cvs, svn, git, ...
10:25:15 <gjanssens> Oops, I misread...
10:25:40 <fell> Imagine, you are a user who found a mistake in nl.po and read translation.
10:25:57 <gjanssens> I agree that's way too complicated.
10:27:14 <gjanssens> The question here is, what skills can we expect from a casual translator ?
10:28:02 <gjanssens> And then, how can we allow this translator to contribute a correction with the minimum of extra work for a committer ?
10:29:30 <gjanssens> For small corrections to translations, I think we could even accept complete translation files. Pasting it in your local repo will quickly reveal the changes.
10:29:48 <gjanssens> That assumes the translator starts from the correct version of the po file of course.
10:29:56 <gjanssens> And there it gets trickier...
10:30:51 <gjanssens> I believe we had a similar discussion before already regarding the documentation and how hard it is to contribute.
10:31:50 <gjanssens> An alternative is as I said earlier today: write a simple recipe for the translator
10:31:52 <gjanssens> install git
10:32:04 <gjanssens> run git clone/git checkout
10:32:14 <gjanssens> make a change
10:32:21 <gjanssens> run git add and git commit
10:32:29 <gjanssens> run git format-patch
10:32:45 <gjanssens> attach the result to a bug in bugzilla
10:33:24 <gjanssens> If you get the contributor to that point, you can start guiding him further for future changes on an individual basis
10:33:34 <gjanssens> Most people manage to follow a recipe
10:34:21 <gjanssens> Regarding the Translation page: I think what goes wrong there is that it explains all variations upfront.
10:35:00 <gjanssens> If it starts with a simple recipe followed by an explanation what each step does, the user has an overview to fall back to while learning the finer details.
10:36:00 <gjanssens> At least he sees the end goal already in that case even though he doesn't understand what is happening. That can be in the text that follows
10:36:24 <gjanssens> All this is just thinking out loud by the way, not a holy grail...
10:39:26 <gjanssens> fell: why is this section on submitting under available resources ? I see there's another section much later after translations have been added
10:40:35 <fell> The problem is: do not discriminate the translation project (for .po files)
10:41:42 <fell> historical cstim wrote the translation of .po, later I added the other parts and had to restructure it.
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10:44:08 <fell> The first gola off the current review was to remove all occurences of mail it to gnucash-devel.
10:47:53 <gjanssens> fell: perhaps the page is simply growing too large and should be split up ?
10:48:46 <gjanssens> Keep the main translation page to help users decide what they want to do and click the appropriate link to a page with more details on their chosen topic
10:49:49 <gjanssens> Then have separate pages for translation of the program, translation of the documentation, translation of the charts of accounts ?
10:50:49 <gjanssens> Perhaps with a common "Translation prerequisits" page or so that explains how to create a local clone of the proper repository/repositories
10:51:05 <gjanssens> Just a thought.
10:51:59 <fell> Yes, that are a bunch of good ideas.
10:52:14 * gjanssens notes you have been working really hard at the docs, thanks for that
10:52:21 <gjanssens> (wiki that is)
11:05:46 <fell> gjanssens: is there some reason, why in Git the windows section is below commiters and not at the beginning in e.g. prerequisite?
11:06:42 <fell> (I usually skip all windows sections)
11:09:31 <gjanssens> fell I presume it's rather low in the text because it concerns fewer people
11:09:54 <gjanssens> By putting it at the beginning, non-windows users have to skip it
11:10:13 <gjanssens> And currently the windows users interested in our code base are by far a minority
11:10:34 <gjanssens> (I mean in using git to work with our cod base)
11:12:04 <fell> In the same page, I added a few Jump to [#...] lines
11:12:59 <gjanssens> You could put a link in the prerequisites for Windows users to the windows section as well
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11:48:26 <fell> gjanssens: I made a logical reordering of http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Git#Set_up - but it could be more confusing now.
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12:06:25 <gjanssens> fell I'll check it out tomorrow
12:07:04 * fell is wondering if we shouldn't define in docs a make target all-formats: html pdf epub mobi
12:17:34 <jralls> fell: Sure, but why not just call it "all"?
12:18:01 <fell> There is already a all target IIRC
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12:18:29 <fell> but that has only all needed on code or similar
12:21:08 <gjanssens> jralls: what's your opinion on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737646 ?
12:21:57 <gjanssens> I have dug as far as finding a sizeof error in our code vs glib/gobject
12:22:38 <gjanssens> We can work around it by explicitly reserving more space, which feels a bit hacky
12:23:07 <gjanssens> On the other hand I'm not sure the alternative is worth the effort: try and build gtk from scratch ourselves
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12:26:18 <jralls> gjanssens: I think it's worthwhile to try a local build of the gtk stack (meaning glib, pango, cairo, gtk, and atk). It smells more like a cairo problem than a gtk one, but I'd anyway be nervous about having parts of that set built with one compiler and parts with another.
12:28:05 <gjanssens> jralls: ok, that will take time however
12:28:20 <gjanssens> what should we do in the meantime with the 2.6.4 download ?
12:28:44 <gjanssens> Announce the bug and recommend people to download 2.6.3 until it's fixed ?
12:29:12 <jralls> On the other hand, the snippet you posted of how GncScrolledWindow is defined is really bad. It should be a GObject derived class, not just a struct wrapping GtkScrolledWindow.
12:30:02 <gjanssens> Your gtk/gobject knowledge is much more profound than mine.
12:30:14 <gjanssens> Do we have a better example in GnuCash I can follow then ?
12:30:54 <jralls> We should announce the bug, recommend that Windows users use 2.6.3 until we sort it out (we've sort of done that already) and change the download version in global_params to point at it.
12:31:24 <gjanssens> Ok. That looks like a good approach.
12:31:25 <jralls> I'll have to look for a better example.
12:31:51 <gjanssens> I'll have to leave in a couple of minutes.
12:31:58 <gjanssens> Can you take care of the announcement ?
12:32:18 <gjanssens> If not I'll look into it tomorrow
12:33:31 <jralls> Yeah, I'll get that part done and set up a gtk build with the current MinGW locally. I can build a stack on my MacPro many times faster than Derek's VM can.
12:34:17 <jralls> Then I can put the binaries in the Dependencies dir on SF and the build script can get them from there.
12:35:00 <gjanssens> Cool, thanks
12:35:19 <jralls> I'll take a whack at redoing the GncScrolledWindow thing as well.
12:35:35 <gjanssens> tx
12:35:42 <gjanssens> Got to go now
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12:35:46 <jralls> Bye.
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14:03:55 <fell> src/engine/SX-book.c:121:5: error: implicit declaration of function 'qof_instance_set_dirty' [-Werror=implicit-function-declaration]
14:17:05 <jralls> fell: Thanks, fix pushed.
14:22:54 <theitsmith> I'm new fairly new to GnuCash and, especially, editing report files and such. Can anyone recommend a good editor or plugin for editing such files, something not only with syntax highlighting but also with more advanced capabilities like syntax validation? My primary editor is Vim, so a Vim-based option would be preferred—but I'm not opposed to using another editor, if necessary.
14:24:08 <fell> theitsmith: does it have a guile/LISP mode?
14:26:03 <fell> Thanks, jralls, it is building again.
14:26:19 <jralls> fell: NP.
14:26:20 <theitsmith> fell: Syntax highlighting seems to work, but nothing really beyond that (that I'm aware of).
14:28:20 <fell> theitsmith: Some people use emacs. Eclipse has a schemeway extension. But I didn't test them really.
14:28:34 <warlord> theitsmith: emacs
14:29:08 <kimmo2> one more vote for emacs
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14:42:40 <fell> FAIL: test-load-xml2
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21:32:40 <lmat> Is the "Investment" part of the documentation up-to-date?
21:33:13 <lmat> I just got a statement for my retirement account (mutual fund of stocks and bonds), and I'm ready to put it in.
21:34:03 <lmat> The "select currency" window looks different than the picture in the documentation.
21:34:26 <lmat> I just make install;ed 2.6.4 tag.
21:34:55 <lmat> I remember something like this coming up before either on IRC or the mailing list, so I thought to go straight to the Securities Editor.
21:35:13 <lmat> I created a security for my mutual fund, but when I go back to edit the account, that security isn't listed.
21:35:57 <lmat> fell: I believe you do much to maintain the docs...is that picture in chapter 8 accurate?
21:36:01 <lmat> Perhaps my gnucash is in a bad state...
21:39:22 <lmat> hey, hey! Account type must be "Stock" (or so)
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21:55:29 <lmat> wow, the stock interface is pretty cool!
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