2014-09-23 GnuCash IRC logs

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12:04:24 <gjanssens> jralls: I'm processing bugs that are in NEEDINFO state for more than 6 months now
12:04:46 <gjanssens> I came across https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708941 which you once were looking at
12:05:33 <gjanssens> It may have fallen off the radar since it's been so long
12:06:18 <gjanssens> Just mentioning it as a heads up. Feel free to ignore it if you don't feel like continuing that bug though.
12:10:50 <jralls> gjanssens: Looks like it should be in "new" rather than "needinfo", since he provided a bunch of screenshots. But reviewing it, I wonder if it might be the same problem as https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736703.
12:12:15 * gjanssens wants to check it out, but bugzilla.gnome.org is temporarily unavailable here...
12:14:03 <jralls> That will stop you updating. :-/
12:16:26 <jralls> Anyway, 736703 is about disappearing amounts when an SX tries to update an account set to a different currency from the default one. I just added to 708941 a question about whether there might be something similar going on there.
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12:19:44 <gjanssens> Ok thanks
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12:21:37 <jralls> Did you try out the prebuilt win32 guile2?
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12:29:00 <gjanssens> not yet
12:29:13 <gjanssens> I read you have switched to guile 2 on os x
12:29:55 <gjanssens> Did you have many issues in the process ?
12:31:38 <gjanssens> It's not only bz I can't reach
12:31:45 <gjanssens> Several sites are failing
12:31:54 <gjanssens> Looks like I have an ipv6 issue
12:40:21 <jralls> The only issue was an alignment issue with 32-bit builds in the VM. Mark Weaver gave me a patch to fix it, which is in gnucash-on-osx. Libunicode and boehm-gc, the two new dependencies, compile fine.
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13:40:40 <gjanssens> That was not an ipv6 issue but a failing isp's dns server
13:41:25 <gjanssens> Until that's fixed I'm using Big Brother's public dns
13:41:39 <jralls> Is that what eventually dropped you from here, too?
13:42:24 <gjanssens> I tried to reset my router, after which everything died because of the failing dns queries...
13:42:42 <gjanssens> It all came back the moment I switched to google's dns
13:44:38 <jralls> OK.
13:45:18 <jralls> Can you think of any reason why the amount localization would change in the CoA page between 2.4 and 2.6?
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14:57:15 <AndreeeCZ> hello people!
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15:36:29 <gjanssens> (back from diner)
15:37:03 <gjanssens> jralls: what you do mean with "amount localization" in the CoA page ?
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16:05:45 <gjanssens> re: pre-built guile on Windows: the first attempt is no success :(
16:06:03 <gjanssens> The binary immediatly halts with an error
16:06:31 <gjanssens> (ice-9/boot-9) not found on the load path
16:07:09 <gjanssens> When I set the load path like we do in our environment file, the error disappears but guile just hangs until I hit ctrl-C
16:07:27 <gjanssens> Have asked Eli for is input
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16:20:03 <AndreeeCZ> I'm having trouble understanding how VAT works with gnucash
16:20:18 <AndreeeCZ> i have followed the tutorial on the wiki
16:20:48 <andy> Hello all. I need some clarification on replaying log files: The docs say to "select the one .log file with the same date as the saved file you just opened." Do I then have open all the later ones, or will it automatically load all logs after the one I select? TIA, Andy
16:21:02 <AndreeeCZ> I was expecting something like when i insert a transaction, it would automatically deduce VAT.. Is this assumption wrong?
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16:25:06 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: yes, your assumption is wrong. The only place gnucash will auto-compute taxes is in the Business Invoice/Bill functions.
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16:25:34 <warlord> andy: it will only load that one. But why are you replaying logs?>
16:25:44 <warlord> Generally you only do that if you crashed.
16:25:50 <AndreeeCZ> warlord, so what would be the most sane way to work with VAT in gnucash then?
16:26:00 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: define "sane"
16:26:28 <AndreeeCZ> i guess the way the devs intended :)
16:26:29 <warlord> You have two options: 1) use the business features, or 2) manually split it out.
16:27:38 <andy> warlord, thanks. Well, I didn't crash, but I did leave my laptop behind on a trip and just got it back after three weeks yesterday. But in the meantime needed to enter transactions, balace thecheckbook, etc. So I have three weeks of log files to reload.
16:27:54 <andy> So I suppose I just open each one in sequence?
16:28:07 <AndreeeCZ> manually splitting it up would mean having to create two entries for one transaction?
16:28:09 <warlord> Did you start from an exact copy of your existing data file?
16:28:27 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: yea, manually creating a multi-split transaction.
16:28:46 <warlord> not "two entries" per se.
16:29:19 <andy> Unfortunately no. I still have the exact copy of the three week old version. In the meantime I created a NEW file. The original is named andy.gnucash. The interim one is samsung.andy.gnucash.
16:29:45 <AndreeeCZ> i mean recording it twice in gnucash - first without vat and then VAT only. Both would have the same name..
16:30:10 <andy> So all the interim log files are samsung_andy.gnucash.xxxxxxx.log
16:30:33 <AndreeeCZ> say i buy three hundred screwdrivers, then i insert one entry in expenses-hardware and one in vat-input-hardware
16:30:58 <andy> Presumeably, if I have andy.gnucash open, and then open a samsung_andy.gnucash.xxxx.log it will add the log contents to the open file?
16:31:00 <warlord> andy: Log replay wont work for you -- you can only replay a log file for logs for the *exact same* data file.
16:31:14 <warlord> So if you created a new file, you cannot use those logs against your other data file.
16:31:22 <jralls> gjanssens: I mean the separator and decimal mark. IN https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734069 the reporter has set his overall locale to English but set the currency (in the locale, not GnuCash) to CHF. In 2.4.13 the amounts in the CoA are displayed as 1,234.56 while in 2.6.3 they're displayed 1.234,56.
16:31:23 <warlord> (all the account GUIDs will be wrong)
16:31:38 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: no, that's not how you would do it.
16:31:44 <andy> Ok. Thanks. That is the answer I was looking for, even tho' not what I wanted to hear... :-(
16:31:51 <AndreeeCZ> warlord, how would you do it? :)
16:31:58 <andy> So the alternative is to export CSV of the interim transactions?
16:32:17 <warlord> andy: If you had an old copy of your data file then you could have replayed the logs. But not via a "new file". Sorry.
16:33:07 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: a single split transaction. Let's say you bought $100 in hammers, with $20 in VAT included. You would create a single transaction that credits Cash $100, debits Expenses:Hammers $80, and debits Expenses:VAT Paid $20
16:33:47 <AndreeeCZ> warlord, i see. That is very clear, thank you
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16:34:17 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: you're welcome.
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16:37:48 <warlord> andy: Yeah, that could work.. (hopefully you don't have multiple currencies or split transactions)
16:37:55 <andy> OK, here is another idea: When I got home I copied 140521_andy.gnucash to samsung_andy.gnucash and proceeded so all the log files are against that file (samsung_andy.gnucash. Now that I have the original back, e.g., 140903_andy.gnucash, could I rename *it* to samsung_andy.gnucash and apply all the logs to that?
16:38:56 <warlord> andy: no. It has nothing to do with the filename
16:39:54 <warlord> (although i'm not sure what you're talking about exactly with "copied 140521_andy.gnucash to samsung_andy.gnucash"
16:41:06 <andy> I had an older version (21 May 14) of andy.gnucash on my backup machine, that had not had any transactions from 140521 through 140903. But it still had the rather elaborate account tree, so I could use it without having to rebuild the tree.
16:41:31 <andy> So I just made the necessary adjustments in the relevant accounts to be able to balance them, and then proceeded with transactions.
16:41:59 <andy> Fortunately there are *that many transactions, so I can do it again man-u-el, but nicer if can do it more easily.
16:42:02 <warlord> andy: AHH! So long as you did not add any new accounts, and only added transactions, that would work.
16:42:47 <andy> Excellent thanks. Well I'll save everything (again) and experiment and report back in due course. No I did not add any new accounts, just transactions.
16:43:43 <warlord> Then yes, that should work... you can replay logs from an older version of the same datafile.
16:44:23 <andy> OK, thanks again. Watch this space... :-)
16:46:58 <warlord> :)
16:50:43 <lwells> How do I adjust the transaction matcher?
16:51:30 <warlord> lwells: adjust how?
16:52:44 <lwells> http://imgur.com/4P5eJxz
16:53:00 <lwells> This is my most recent transaction download
16:53:20 <warlord> okay....
16:53:29 <lwells> Not sure what to adjust so that it takes those transactions in red
16:54:44 <warlord> try clicking on the A column to add it, and then double-click to assign the correct destination account?
16:55:43 <warlord> (I'm not sure why it's marked like that -- I dont import transactions)
16:56:02 <lwells> Well I have been doing that already, but there are settings in perfrences to adjust what gnucash accepts
16:57:35 <AndreeeCZ> warlord, this doesnt seem like a very streamlined workflow.. How can i use the business tools for VAT?
16:59:04 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: you need to enter in invoices or bills
16:59:21 <warlord> lwells: I'm sorry, I dont know what settings you're looking for.
17:00:25 <lwells> warlord: the ones in the online banking section, under the Match display threshold
17:01:46 <AndreeeCZ> warlord, how other people do VAT with gnucash? split transaction or invoice/bills?
17:01:53 <lwells> warlord: Well there are actually 3 there, Match display threshold, Auto-add threshold, Auto-clear threshold
17:02:03 <warlord> lwells: I'm afraid I have no idea what those thresholds are for.
17:02:14 <lwells> ok that is cool
17:02:39 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: I honestly don't know. There is the FAQ, or you could ask on the gnucash-user mailing list.
17:02:52 <AndreeeCZ> ok i will, thx
17:03:04 <warlord> AndreeeCZ: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Tax_Handling:_Goods_and_Service_Tax_.28GST.29_or_Value_Added_Tax_.28VAT.29
17:14:07 <gjanssens> jralls: I have looked at the bug you mention
17:14:19 <gjanssens> I can't reproduce this on linux
17:15:18 <gjanssens> When I explicitly set LC_MONETARY to a locale different from the rest, the amount display is changed accordingly
17:16:28 <gjanssens> That suggests there is something going haywire in the mac specific locale code
17:16:45 <jralls> gjanssens: NO, that's what the reporter is complaining about. He doesn't want it to do that.
17:19:08 <jralls> Besides, the mac-specific locale code hasn't changed between 2.4 and 2.6.
17:20:02 <gjanssens> How do you mean ?
17:20:29 <gjanssens> The screen shot shows his currency settings are 1,234.50
17:20:42 <gjanssens> And that is what was displayed in 2.4.11
17:21:27 <gjanssens> 2.6.x on the other hand seems to display the typical formatting for en_US
17:22:23 <gjanssens> So it looks to me the user does want gnucash to follow what LC_MONETARY sets, but somehow 2.6 fails to read this properly
17:24:54 <jralls> The code looks for a locale that supports CHF and sets LC_MONETARY to that. The currency settings box is showing the results of using an ICU formatter because that's what OSX uses natively. Gtk doesn't.
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17:28:29 <jralls> LC_MONETARY sets thousands_sep = '.' and decimal = ',' for all three CH locales. That's apparently wrong, the Swiss acctually use ' and ., but that's a separate bug.
17:30:43 <jralls> Anyway, that's not the part that bugs me. What bugs me is that it isn't right in 2.4, even though that's what the user wants.
17:32:33 <gjanssens> I'm sorry I can't follow. What isn't right in 2.4 ? From the screenshot of his regional settings it looks to me the user has manually altered the separators and 2.4.11 uses these
17:32:45 <gjanssens> Isn't that what should happen ?
17:34:57 <jralls> We can't do that, we don't use ICU. libc locale doesn't have the ability to set those separators outside of an LC_MONETARY file. 2.4.11 doesn't use the custom settings either, it's just either not using the LC_MONETARY format or resetting the LC_MONETARY locale isn't sticking.
17:39:01 <gjanssens> Ok, one step back then. You write "The code looks for a locale that supports CHF and sets LC_MONETARY to that"
17:39:36 <gjanssens> Which code are you referring to ? And how is it told to look for "CHF" ?
17:40:23 <jralls> Oh, I lied. I wasn't reading the diff correctly. The localization code did change, just not where I was expecting.
17:41:38 <gjanssens> Happens to all of us... :)
17:42:39 <jralls> Anyway, it's in gnucash-bin.c, in function set_mac_locale(), starting at line 165. The changes are https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/commit/df4f6a321c78b751d26f781ff59eb4558366e451 and https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/commit/5016478de87645e8cd0f3661952170c64dc4dcb6.
17:44:21 <jralls> But I don't see how they'd cause the reported problem unless they just failed to set the locale at all and left it at en_US. But then the currency code would pick up the wrong currency, wouldn't it?
17:45:00 <jralls> Or maybe not if the user was overriding the locale currency in preferences.
17:49:29 <gjanssens> Hmm, Objective C using the native Apple frameworks look like Chinese to me
17:50:04 <gjanssens> You explicitly mentioned the code looks for a locale that supports "CHF"
17:50:21 <gjanssens> Where does it get this CHF ?
17:51:36 <gjanssens> And does it really look for the currency's mnemonic ? Or did you mean the language code CH ?
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17:55:55 <gjanssens> The currency code uses the account currency regardless of the LC_MONETARY settings
17:56:39 <gjanssens> It will only use the formatting defined in LC_MONETARY, but with the mnemonic or symbol of the actual currency
17:56:50 <jralls> Starting at line 220. The method call [locale objectforKey: NSLocaleCurrencyCode] (in C++notation that might be locale->objectForKey(NSLocaleCurrencyCode()) ) retrieves the currency code from the locale settings. The rest of that section goes looking for a locale that uses it.
17:57:42 <jralls> I don't know what it's using to represent the currency, but since it's doing it all inside of the Apple locale system it doesn't much matter.
17:58:18 <gjanssens> When I set LC_MONETARY=de_CH, my amounts are displayed as €1'234.55 because my accounts are in euro and the formatting is extracted from LC_MONETARY
17:58:45 <gjanssens> Anyway, time to call it a night.
17:59:18 <jralls> I meant in the global currency setting. But OK, Good night.
17:59:40 <gjanssens> Good luck with the hunt
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18:08:06 <andy> OK, set up for tomorrow: ITOT I cannot find any way to export transactions as CSV, only as an HTML report. So I go to each source account (checking, cash, credit card), set the view to Transaction Journal, which opens up all the splits, do Reports > Account Report, and then File > Export Export Report
18:09:28 <andy> This gives me a list of all the transactions in the source accounts with their detailed splits. About as good as it gets. If I could figure out how to convert that to a CSV that would be cool but as I said, there aren't that many, so it shall have to be man-you-el. But not tonight. Cheers, Andy
18:30:36 <jralls> Andy: Don't export the report, just select the transactions and paste them into a spreadsheet. Then you can save that as a CSV.
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