2014-05-13 GnuCash IRC logs

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02:51:48 <ksinkar> warlord: I have completed the make process. Now I am trying to start gnucash. Whenever I try to start gnucash from the shell by typing in the command gnucash I get the following error: Error: could not initialize graphical user interface and option add-price-quotes was not set.
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09:31:16 <lmat> I'm writing some gnucash code (and would like to contribute it some day). What license do I need to use ?
09:32:05 <lmat> The file that I copied to get started says "Copyright so-and-so 2012" then some GPL language. May I disclaim copyright ? Or is it not then fit for inclusion with gnucash ?
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10:08:23 <gjanssens> lmat is GPL not appropriate for your work ?
10:08:40 <gjanssens> Copyright is pretty important in a community project such as gnucash
10:09:18 <lmat> gjanssens: For sure :) I don't care to reserve any rights, but I think that, in order to be included in gnucash, it needs to be covered under GPL, right ?
10:09:40 <lmat> gjanssens: I guess my question is, who should hold the copyright ? I don't want it. Perhaps Copyright 2014 GnuCash is appropriate ?
10:10:28 <lmat> gjanssens: Or maybe something more verbose: "The author disclaims copyright. Copyright GnuCash 2014" ?
10:10:50 <gjanssens> lmat: that's an interesting point of view... why don't you want to hold the copyright ?
10:11:11 <gjanssens> What disadvantage do you perceive from it ?
10:11:27 <lmat> gjanssens: Because I like free software ^_^ The freedom to copy, the freedom to modify, and the freedom to distribute modified copies.
10:11:32 * gjanssens is not a lawyer by the way, just curious
10:11:56 <lmat> gjanssens: No disadvantage, except that it contradicts what I want...
10:12:03 <gjanssens> Well, that freedom is guaranteed by copyright law, albeit applied in an unexpected way
10:12:16 <gjanssens> The GPL enforces this freedom via copyright law
10:12:33 <lmat> gjanssens: But it adds limitations. I don't like those limitations.
10:12:42 <gjanssens> You see, copyright is very important to community projects
10:12:50 <lmat> gjanssens: I enjoy the freedom to copy, the fre.... without limitations
10:13:27 <lmat> gjanssens: If I have to retain the copyright (and license it under GPL) in order to contribute, then I will. I'm wondering if I'm free to disclaim copyright :-)
10:14:02 <gjanssens> As said I'm not a lawyer but it looks like you want to release your code under a BSD* like license
10:14:18 <gjanssens> That essentially says do with my code whatever you want
10:14:21 <lmat> gjanssens: If BSD* licenses have any restrictions, I'd rather avoid them :)
10:14:46 <gjanssens> Including copying it and make a proprietary solution with it for which I will later have to pay to use my own code :)
10:15:06 <gjanssens> BSD if too liberal for my personal taste
10:15:07 <lmat> gjanssens: Anyway, just wondering what my code has to say at the top :-)
10:15:26 <gjanssens> I prefer the single restriction that my code has to remain free
10:15:40 <lmat> Currently, it says "Copyright disclaimed" but I'm betting that's inappropriate for this project :)
10:16:13 <lmat> gjanssens: Most do. I understand and sympathize with the preference, although I don't share it :)
10:16:37 <gjanssens> Someone with more background should chime in here, I don't know if such copyright notice is compatible with GPL
10:17:44 <lmat> gjanssens: Oh, it's not, I'm almost sure.
10:18:01 <lmat> gjanssens: It allows, say, Microsoft to include this code in their Microsoft Money or whatever, which is not compatible with GPL.
10:18:23 <gjanssens> That in itself is not relevant for GPL
10:18:33 <lmat> gjanssens: hmm
10:18:39 <gjanssens> You can't add a piece of gpl'd code into MS Money
10:18:58 <gjanssens> But you disclaim copyright so it's not gpl'd
10:19:31 <gjanssens> The only question is whether a piece of gpl code is allowed to link with code without copyright
10:19:49 <lmat> gjanssens: Oh, right. I think that's fine :)
10:20:03 <lmat> gjanssens: I would also think there is another issue: does GnuCash want non-GPL code in their codebase.
10:20:14 <gjanssens> But in any case, if you claim copyright you as copyright holder are free to decide on licensing
10:20:25 <lmat> gjanssens: The project as a whole say "We're GPL". a contribution like this makes that statement a lie, right ?
10:20:32 <gjanssens> You can release your code under multiple licences
10:20:41 <gjanssens> Under gpl to be included in gnucash
10:20:46 <lmat> gjanssens: Right. I was wondering about that...
10:21:04 <lmat> gjanssens: And I can license it elsewhere under a custom (proprietary) end-user agreement ?
10:21:06 <gjanssens> With a "do whatever you want" licence available via some other means
10:21:31 <gjanssens> You can provided you don't disclaim copyright...
10:21:51 <lmat> gjanssens: makes sense :)
10:22:07 <gjanssens> But be careful as this may get tangled quickly
10:22:17 <gjanssens> Suppose you contribute some code to gnucash
10:22:33 <gjanssens> and another developer makes changes in your source code
10:22:43 <gjanssens> Those portions are no longer your copyrighted material
10:22:56 <gjanssens> Those changes then are copyrighted by the other developer
10:23:13 <gjanssens> And for those changes you no longer get to choose to relicense them
10:23:57 <gjanssens> If you run git blame on any random source file you will see what I mean
10:24:42 <lmat> gjanssens: yup :)
10:24:54 <lmat> gjanssens: I only "own" what I write, right ? ^_^
10:25:01 <gjanssens> Yep :)
10:25:18 <gjanssens> I personally think the copyright statements in the source files are outdated anyway
10:25:46 <gjanssens> I mostly forget to change these when I alter a source file for the first time
10:25:56 <lmat> gjanssens: Which part is outdated ?
10:26:12 <gjanssens> The copyright ownerships
10:26:28 <gjanssens> The GPL copyright in itself is still valid
10:26:49 <lmat> gjanssens: Oh, you forget to add your name to the copyright statement ?
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10:32:43 <gjanssens> It would make more sense to me to put "copyrighted by the gnucash development team" and make a claim somewhere in a general license file that git blame can be use to figure out proper copyright owners
10:33:12 * Simon uses a git hook to check copyright years
10:33:13 <gjanssens> Something like that, except that won't work for change history before we migrated to git
10:33:43 <gjanssens> So we'd have to keep copyright owners for all changes before git
10:33:47 <gjanssens> Bleh
10:34:01 <Simon> whatever you do, don't say "refer to the COPYING file"
10:34:13 <lmat> Simon: why ?
10:34:33 <Simon> because it makes it impossible to use the code when the COPYING file becomes separated from the code
10:34:43 <gjanssens> Exactly
10:34:54 <lmat> Simon: aye :)
10:35:24 <gjanssens> I would keep a copyright header in each file anyway, just stop adding individual copyright holders from now on
10:35:36 <gjanssens> But the decision is not mine to make anyway
10:35:51 <gjanssens> I only have a general notion of copyright/GPL
10:36:10 <Simon> is anyone working the on performance of xml file loading? I'm considering trying to make it multi-threaded
10:36:45 <gjanssens> Simon: I don't think anyone is
10:37:38 <gjanssens> Do you have measurments that suggest loading speed can be improved by multythreading ?
10:37:51 <Simon> no
10:37:58 <Simon> but I have 8 cores :)
10:38:13 <gjanssens> (multhytreading?!) -> multithreading :)
10:39:14 <gjanssens> I know jralls has done some profiling on gnucash startup performance
10:39:33 <gjanssens> You may want to discuss this with him (except he's not on irc yet right now)
10:40:43 <Simon> it seems to have become slower between 2.4 and 2.6
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10:41:25 <gjanssens> Simon: part of that at least is because gnucash has added an additional test to ensure only valid xml is read
10:42:02 <gjanssens> Before this check you ran the risk of silently losing data when it encountered invalid xml
10:42:58 <gjanssens> The devs decided it was better to take more time to load and guarantee data consistency then the other way around
10:43:17 <gjanssens> But perhaps there are opportunities for improvement still
10:43:29 <gjanssens> So you're of course most welcome to try
10:44:18 <gjanssens> However if you can catch jralls his measurements could save you some time in pinpointing the exact causes
10:45:01 <Simon> I'm not familiar with how the data is stored
10:45:36 <Simon> unless each account's transactions are relatively separate it'd be difficult to have multiple threads working on the same data structures
10:46:32 <gjanssens> To me it looks more like a web than a hierarchy
10:46:50 <gjanssens> Each account holds several splits
10:47:00 <gjanssens> A split can only be in one account
10:47:13 <gjanssens> However each split also belongs to exactly one transaction
10:47:35 <gjanssens> Transactions are not directly tied to accounts but to splits
10:48:02 <gjanssens> But those only three base objects
10:48:04 <lmat> ralls is up ^_^ But he's hiding from IRC
10:48:05 <gjanssens> There are many more
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10:49:21 <lmat> I prefer the sqlite backend :)
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10:52:17 <gjanssens> lmat: sqlite backend load performance is probably even worse (at least is surely used to be like that)
10:53:21 <lmat> gjanssens: Why would you think that ?
10:53:37 <gjanssens> I don't *think* this, it was verified
10:53:37 <lmat> gjanssens: I would think that avoiding parsing XML should be a win...
10:54:04 <Simon> I don't think XML parsing is going to be any slower than parsing database result output
10:54:17 <Simon> the benefit of the database mode is that you can load data on demand
10:54:30 <gjanssens> And we don't use this benefit in GnuCash
10:54:44 <gjanssens> The current backends all load the complete data set into memory
10:55:01 <gjanssens> sqlite as well as xml as well as postgres and mysql
10:55:18 <gjanssens> That's a common misconception users have about how gnucash works
10:55:35 <lmat> gjanssens: That is too bad...
10:55:44 <lmat> gjanssens: It would be nice to abstract that so that only the XML engine has that penalty :)
10:55:46 <Simon> and unless you've changed something, most of the data is still strings in the database...
10:55:56 <gjanssens> Well on the bright side, on demand access is on the roadmap
10:56:07 <lmat> Simon: Right, I'm remembering now about the sqlite data type model (strings, ints, and reals, I think)
10:56:15 <lmat> gjanssens: Get to work!!
10:56:20 <gjanssens> But it needs the engine rewrite before we could even think about it
10:56:43 <lmat> gjanssens: Oh, an engine rewrite, sounds fun..
10:56:50 <lmat> gjanssens: oh yeah, am I working on that ? libqof -> c++ ?
10:57:03 <gjanssens> lmat: weren't you volunteering in that area ? ;)
10:57:10 <gjanssens> Yep, that part
10:57:14 <lmat> gjanssens: :-P Okay, I'll get to work (actually working on it now ^_^)
10:57:26 <gjanssens> lmat: great !
10:57:31 <lmat> gjanssens: I have two consoles open, one IRC, and the other the GUID thing ^_^
10:57:42 <lmat> Adding a test for GUID equals method.
11:00:25 <gjanssens> lmat: way to go
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11:24:29 * Simon needs to figure out why gnucash tabs are gradient tabs with dark grey text on light grey blocks... http://s85.org/Y9eJNXgG
11:29:18 <gjanssens> Simon: that's because when you enable Account Colours gnucash adds an eventbox to the tab labels and
11:29:23 <gjanssens> gives it a default colour grey
11:29:50 <gjanssens> Without the event box the labels are transparent and hence the background gradient is visible
11:30:20 <gjanssens> I always wondered if we couldn't simply omit the event box if no specific color is set for an account...
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11:46:36 <Simon> it does it even without Account Colours
11:47:08 <Simon> (and the text still isn't #000000)
11:47:50 <warlord> lmat: IMHO the "copyright" just documents you as the author. There is no legal GnuCash entity to which you can assign it, but you can release it to the public under GPL (which is kinda a requirement since GnuCash is GPL)
11:48:09 <Simon> it could do with auto-detection of the best text colour (black or white) based on the background colour, but I usually choose light enough background colours
11:48:22 <lmat> warlord: Okay, that's what I thought :)
11:48:52 <lmat> warlord: So, since someone has to hold the copyright, it'll be me. And it needs to be licensed to GnuCash as GPL (because that's what GnuCash wants). Does that sound right ?
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11:51:37 <warlord> Yes
11:51:54 <warlord> IANAL but that's my understanding
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12:38:37 <Simon> I managed to fix the colours, it was a Unity theme issue... it seems someone thinks grey text on grey was a good idea
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13:08:18 <warlord> Simon: hahaha... yeah, that would be an issue, eh?
13:09:00 <Simon> it's dark grey on light grey so it's not completely unreadable, but it's not ideal
13:12:33 <warlord> * nods *
13:12:41 * warlord uses Fedora and doesn't have this kind of issue
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13:41:02 <superuser> when trying to open gnucash for linux, i get this error "ERROR: Undefined variable: gnc-is-debugging" Assistance please
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14:17:37 <warlord> superuser: gnucash version? OS/Distro? And how did you install it?
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16:24:53 <superuser> warlord, current issues are with gnucash 2.4 i belive. The version in the software manager. I tried to install 2.6.3 via compile,make,install and had 0 luck. i tried to go back to 2.4 from the software manager and am no longer able to open up gnucash which i was able to previously. I am on linux mint petra 16
16:36:16 <warlord> Did you completely remove all build/install artifacts of 2.6?
16:36:41 <warlord> My guess is that you have files from both versions installed and they are interfering.
16:36:56 <warlord> This would particularly be the case if you didn't specify a --prefix when you built 2.6
16:37:09 <warlord> So, how did you build/compile/install 2.6?
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20:33:36 <mgelman> playing with the loan calculator, I am noticing some weirdness: here are my values: Interest Rate = 7.75, Present value = 25274.94, Periodic Payment = -232.76, Future Value = 0, if you solve for payment periods, you get 188, which is correct. However, now if you clear out the "Period Payment", and solve for "Periodic payment" using the "Payment Periods" value of 188, you will now get "-232.57". Ultimately, I am trying to use the loa
20:33:37 <mgelman> repayment transaction editor and this too is giving me different values
20:33:51 <mgelman> I am using 2.6.3 on a mac
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21:33:31 <warlord> mgelman: yes, I noticed that the numbers are slightly different when I was playing around. Most likely is that it uses different implementations.
21:34:14 <mgelman> thanks warlord, but why is the calculator coming up with a different Periodic payment
21:34:34 <warlord> mgelman: like I said, most likely due to different implementations that round differently.
21:34:45 <warlord> (read: I don't know -- I just noticed it did it)
21:35:20 <mgelman> okay cool, atleast it isn't me, is this bug worthy?
21:36:13 <warlord> Sure.
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