2014-04-17 GnuCash IRC logs

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05:06:38 <mlq> warlord: Thats correct, but I think in this case a failed allocation results that you are not able to acquire the lock and therefore its better to handle it as a failed call is better than a segmentation fault
05:22:56 <chrisa> Hi warlord I have added anote for information re accessing the chat area on the wiki page below quit irc, feel free to amend etc to your satisfation, regards chrisa
05:25:21 <chrisa> Another problem I had yesterday and it has happened again is that when I tried to search your previous logs page I got a 404 error.
05:31:54 <chrisa> It is when I click on the link: " to search the user Archive"
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07:29:00 <warlord> chrisa: that's a known issue -- the search software we were using stopped being supported, so the links are now all dead.
07:29:44 <warlord> mlq: if the lock fails to acquire then it doesn't necessarily matter ;)
07:37:39 <warlord> mlq: my point is not that I object to trivial fixes, but that IMHO there are .... better ways to spend your time ;)
07:37:51 <mlq> warlord: If a failed allocation is the reason or another error that it fails to acquire it, its better that it just fails and not that the whole app crashes. Some error handling is better than none
07:38:46 <mlq> warlord: Sure, but the realloc fix was quickly done and the other pull requests were necessary that I was able to build gnucash on my system and I thought it would not be too bad to start replacing deprecated stuff
07:38:52 <warlord> mlq: have you ever seen a failed allocation? I've been programming for 25 years and I've never seen one in the wild.
07:39:18 <warlord> The other pull requests are IMHO fine.
07:39:25 <warlord> the realloc one just seems silly
07:40:01 <warlord> Only time I've seen failed allocations are in the kernel or in embedded devices
07:46:09 <mlq> Yes, I did, but those programs were working with much more memory or as a result of a failed calculation (overflow etc). I think its good practice to handle those and to use those functions correctly. In some cases you don't want to lose the previous allocated memory if realloc fails
07:48:26 <mlq> And I've seen some libraries which do not handle such checks or just call abort (which is not the case here), but thats also a behaviour that I do not want to have as a user of the library in the end. So I think its good practice to handle them in the most convinient way and for me its better that the function returns failure instead of crashing the whole program
07:49:41 <mlq> But besides that: "BZ entries are, IMHO, better." Should I open some in addition?
07:49:53 <warlord> in the case of gnucash if you cannot allocate memory for the lock then you cannot allocate memory for the data, so you might as well give up ;)
07:50:52 <warlord> mlq: re BZ -- that's up to you. If the changes are generally trivial then it's not necessarily worth it. If the changes are bigger then BZ allows better discussion.
07:52:08 <mlq> Yeah and creating a dialog for an error message will then need likely more memory than the lock itself. (Just good practice ;))
07:52:38 <mlq> Okay, I think all of them are trivial, but probably the libsecret one needs some discussion, so I might create one for it later on
07:52:41 <warlord> I agree it's generally good practice. in this case I dont think it matters. That's really my point.
07:53:06 <warlord> What Distro are you on s.t. you dont have gnome-keyring support?
07:53:31 <mlq> I'm on archlinux - the thing is that I don't have gnome-keyring, its more that the used functions are deprecated
07:54:02 <warlord> How I hate GNOME/GTK ---- let me count the ways.....
07:54:06 <warlord> *grumbles*
07:54:12 <mlq> I think the reasoning behind this is that there now exists libsecret and they want to migrate everything to it
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07:56:01 <warlord> I understand the desire to migrate new code to the newer thing, but seriously.... deprecating apis is just not friendly.
08:01:18 <warlord> To me when a developer does that it means the only people they care about is themselves; they don't care about their users.
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08:03:16 <mlq> Yes, but it still works and I think they still ship the code for it and if they announce that they are going to drop the support developers have at least the time to prepare for that
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08:09:37 <mlq> It has been deprecated with 3.12 which was released in the end of march
08:11:57 <mlq> No, I'm wrong, its been deprecated with 3.11.92: "This has been years in coming, but now that the libsecret API is stable, deprecate the libgnome-keyring API."
08:13:53 <warlord> Right. "Hey, this other API just came out yesterday, so we can deprecate our APIs today!"
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08:54:27 <Hinnerk> hi
08:54:28 <gncbot> Hinnerk: Sent 1 year, 27 weeks, 3 days, 1 hour, and 41 minutes ago: <fell> I watched this issue in the extended portfolio report too. Can you file a bug report and cc Mike Alexander?
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08:55:14 <Hinnerk> nice, gncbot coming with an isolated message from 1 year, 27 weeks, 3 days, 1 hour and 41 minutes ago :)
08:55:50 <Hinnerk> I just upgraded to 2.6.3
08:56:00 <Hinnerk> and have a problem with online prices
08:56:06 <Hinnerk> i tried to install this
08:56:12 <Hinnerk> and get the following error:
08:56:50 <Hinnerk> ppm install failed: Can't find any package that provides Crypt-SSLeay
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09:15:04 <Hinnerk> also there is a message about DateManip
09:15:18 <Hinnerk> "access denied" (or rather, in german)
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10:01:49 <warlord> Hinnerk: it's clearly been 1 year, 27 weeks, 3 days, 1 hour, and 41 minutes since you last came in to ask a question..
10:02:04 <Hinnerk> certainly not :)
10:02:22 <warlord> Hinnerk: well, it's been that long since someone using the same nick came in..
10:02:35 <warlord> anyways, what OS/Distro?
10:02:41 <Hinnerk> also not, seems more like a hickup on the bots side
10:02:47 <Hinnerk> Windows 7 Prof
10:02:51 <Hinnerk> all updates etc
10:02:59 <Hinnerk> Perl 5.18 ActiveState
10:03:06 <Hinnerk> I just updated all packages
10:03:11 <warlord> unlikely it was a bot hiccup.
10:03:13 <Hinnerk> didn't help
10:03:27 <Hinnerk> well, I was certainly here more recently
10:03:36 <Hinnerk> and under this nick
10:03:52 <Hinnerk> what else would you need?
10:05:02 <Hinnerk> when I do: cpan -D Finance::Quote
10:05:37 <Hinnerk> I get a bunch of output, reamrkably: It looks like the installation of dmake and MinGW64 has failed
10:05:47 <warlord> Hmm. I'm not a windows guy, honestly. jralls is still asleep.. The quote installer *should* work properly.
10:05:54 <Hinnerk> You will not be able to run Makefile commands or compile C extension code.
10:06:07 <Hinnerk> Please check our internet connection and your proxy settings!
10:06:16 <Hinnerk> now, my internet connection seems fine
10:06:23 <Hinnerk> and i don't use proxies.
10:07:14 <warlord> This is all from the quote installer script under the start menu?
10:09:02 <Hinnerk> nope
10:09:11 <Hinnerk> thats what i get when i enter this:
10:09:20 <Hinnerk> cpan -D Finance::Quote
10:09:45 <Hinnerk> in which package can i find Crypt-SSLeay?
10:10:11 <warlord> What happens if you run the script that gnucash provides?
10:10:21 <Hinnerk> gnc-fq-update?
10:11:10 <Hinnerk> among other output i provides the same error as described above:
10:11:14 <warlord> How about the windows equivalent, since you did say you're on windows.
10:11:18 <Hinnerk> about dmake and MinGW64
10:11:44 <Hinnerk> I don't know what the equivalent qould be, I just run the original :)
10:12:06 <warlord> [Start] -> Programs -> Gnucash -> Install <quote grabber>
10:12:19 <Hinnerk> what i said earlier:
10:12:32 <Hinnerk> ppm install failed: Can't find any package that provides Crypt-SSLeay
10:12:34 <Hinnerk> also:
10:12:42 <warlord> Try removing perl and trying again
10:13:08 <warlord> also try removing mingw
10:13:12 <warlord> and anything else you installed.
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10:13:15 <Hinnerk> ...working on it...
10:13:17 <Hinnerk> :)
10:13:22 <Hinnerk> inclduing windows i asusme :)
10:13:48 <warlord> Well, that would help too ;)
10:15:16 <warlord> lots of people have been successful, so most likely it's something you did on your system.
10:18:52 <Hinnerk> well, yes.
10:19:02 <Hinnerk> but what?
10:19:12 <Hinnerk> well, I actually uninstalled perl
10:19:18 <Hinnerk> and run the installer
10:19:22 <Hinnerk> still running
10:21:42 <warlord> that's good..
10:22:29 <Hinnerk> ok, works now
10:22:42 <Hinnerk> does that mean it won't work if i reinstall active state perl?
10:22:44 <Hinnerk> hmmm
10:23:36 <Hinnerk> btw, does someone have a script to retrieve and insert old prices? like daily closing prices between two given dates?
10:24:23 <warlord> i dont know of such a script offhand, but you could ask on gnucash-user m/l
10:24:36 <warlord> And I dont know what happens if you re-install ASPerl
10:47:10 <gjanssens> mlq: is libsecret available in gtk 2.x ? GnuCash hasn't been ported yet to gtk 3.x and it's currently uncertain if it ever will be.
10:53:02 <gjanssens> Hinnerk: last time I heard about it (about a month ago) ActivePerl was having issues with the most recent version of Finance::Quote
10:53:34 <gjanssens> The F::Q developer was working on a fix, but I haven't heard since if that fix was actually implemented
10:53:55 <gjanssens> And I equally don't know if our install script may need some updates for it
10:54:15 <gjanssens> There was some discussion on similar issues as you describe on the gnucash lists
10:54:24 <gjanssens> But I haven't been following the details
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12:07:49 <jralls> warlord: I resent the insinuation that I'm a "windows guy". ;-)
12:08:22 <warlord> LOL. Sorry. But you've done more work there recently than I have ;)
12:19:51 <gjanssens> jralls: I'm experimenting with a first commit on maint and want to merge it into master now
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12:20:32 <gjanssens> Any suggestion for a useful commit message other than "Merge branch 'maint'" ?
12:21:43 <jralls> How about "Merge foo from maint", where foo is a short description of the changes?
12:22:00 <gjanssens> Ok
12:22:22 <gjanssens> The git workflow man page suggests to only periodically merge from maint to master
12:22:48 <gjanssens> I think I can see why: it will limit the number of "Merge foo from maint messages"
12:23:09 <gjanssens> But as a test, I'll do a first merge now anyway for one commit only
12:24:01 <jralls> Yup. The downside is that if there's work in master on the same subject it will make merge conflicts and the more changes there are to merge the harder it will be to sort out the conflicts.
12:25:19 <gjanssens> True. On the other hand 'Periodically" doesn't necessarily mean 'at fixed intervals'
12:25:27 <gjanssens> I guess the future will tell what works best for us
12:25:28 <jralls> It always did in the math classes *I* took! ;-)
12:25:31 <gjanssens> LOL
12:25:47 <jralls> Yeah, we'll just have to experiment for a while.
12:26:46 <jralls> I don't think any of the "standard" workflows contemplate major rewrites of master as part of the problem.
12:32:31 <gjanssens> Agreed
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12:35:55 <jralls> I see you've started on Moritz Lipp's pull requests.
12:37:32 <gjanssens> Yes
12:37:34 <jralls> We should think about whether we want to accept the "deprecation" ones.
12:37:54 <gjanssens> I was about to ask this for the dbi case
12:38:12 <warlord> that's mlq -- you could ask
12:38:30 <warlord> I think dbi-0.9.0 support would be fine, IFF we dont lose 0.8.3 support
12:38:52 <warlord> (assuming they changed the soname between 0.8 and 0.9)
12:39:00 <jralls> I thought he might be. mlq, are you listening?
12:39:05 <gjanssens> The glib one seemed clean enough to apply to maint and may save us a backport in a couple of years when fedora ships only glib 2.3x which no longer has g_dirname
12:39:21 <gjanssens> And we haven't released 2.8 yet
12:39:39 <gjanssens> I'm considering the dbi one for the same reasons
12:39:56 <jralls> I don't have any problem with g_dirname. libsecret and libdbi are the ones I'm concerned about.
12:40:10 <warlord> F18 ships libsecret
12:40:16 <warlord> (I have it on my system)
12:40:26 <gjanssens> The patch seems clean to me - older libdbi versions remain supported
12:40:29 <warlord> however I dont know if it's a g3-only
12:42:05 <jralls> Right, that's my concern with libsecret. mlq said earlier that it was introduced in 3.12. He apparently doesn't know about the odd-even release convention, because he corrected himself to 3.11.92.
12:43:04 <gjanssens> From the rpm dependencies it looks like libsecret has nothing to do with gtk/gnome
12:43:22 <gjanssens> It only requires glib2 and doesn't specify a version (on fedora 20)
12:44:02 <jralls> No, the deprecation is of gnome-keyring.
12:44:26 <gjanssens> Indeed. And the patch is written to use libsecret only when it's available
12:44:40 <gjanssens> It will still fall back to gnome-keyring if that is available
12:44:57 <gjanssens> So looks like a well thought out patch
12:45:16 <jralls> OK.
12:45:18 <gjanssens> But as I said I don't know if it will work with glib2 2.28
12:45:40 <gjanssens> That has to be confirmed, otherwise it's a no-go for gnucash 2.6
12:45:53 <gjanssens> The patches were against master by the way
12:46:14 <gjanssens> So mlq's intention is not necessarily for them to go into 2.6
12:46:22 <gjanssens> That's just me thinking long-term
12:47:27 <gjanssens> That is: will the more aggressive distros still ship gnome-keyring 3-4 years from now before we release 2.8 ?
12:47:40 <jralls> That was the question. Does it go into 2.6? If not, no problem, I think. It's especially beneficial because libsecret appears to be a joint Gnome/KDE project to make a universal keyring. Better portability is good.
12:48:44 <gjanssens> Yep
12:49:41 <jralls> The dbi patch, OTOH, is the interesting one, because we're planning to remove dbi from master, but I bet the suddenly more active dbi devs are contemplating removing that deprecated API for 1.0 and we'll need the patch in 2.6 in a year or so.
12:50:09 <gjanssens> Found this for libsecret: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/gnome/libsecret.html
12:50:21 <gjanssens> linux from scratch claims glib 2.24 is sufficient
12:50:32 <jralls> OK.
12:50:33 <gjanssens> So it can go into 2.6 apparently
12:51:05 <gjanssens> As said before the dbi patch looks clean to me as well
12:51:35 <gjanssens> It continues to work with 0.8.x and will support 0.9.0
12:51:51 <gjanssens> The patch won't hurt on both master and maint
12:52:32 <gjanssens> When we're done with replacing dbi on master, the bits this patch add will automatically be removed again
12:52:54 <gjanssens> But in the mean time master can be tested with all versions of libdbi
12:52:57 <jralls> Right. It won't now, and I guess merging it before replacing the dbi backend will help prevent merge comflicts later.
12:53:12 <gjanssens> That's what I think as well
12:53:52 <gjanssens> BTW if you feel like handling the two remaining pull requests, feel free to do so. I'm out of time for today.
12:53:55 <jralls> OK, then.
12:54:15 <gjanssens> That's the libsecret and libdbi patches
12:54:30 <jralls> Will do, as soon as I finish with a couple of non-gnucash issues.
12:55:07 <gjanssens> Thanks
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13:26:39 <fell> Warlord: IIRC Hinnerk visited us the last 1⅛ years as YeOldHinnerk or similar.
13:27:23 <warlord> fell, sure, but gncbot uses the actual nick.. Hinnerk != YeOldHinnerk
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14:29:41 <mlq> jralls: Sorry, I've been away. I am going to drive home now and will read the rest later. The libdbi patch still supports older versions and the libsecret patch supports gnome-keyring as well - The only thing would be g_dirname since I was not able to find any documentation in which glib version it has been deprecated
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15:26:27 <jralls> mlq: No worries about that, it's been an alias for g_path_get_dirname since at least glib-2-2.
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16:16:13 <mlq> gjanssens: libsecret does not depend on gtk, just glib and libgcrypt
16:18:12 <gjanssens> mlq: I figured that out as well. But rereading http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/gnome/libsecret.html more carefully I also find it requires glib 2.40, not 2.24 as I previously assumed
16:18:37 <gjanssens> Oh well, it just means it will only be available on very recent systems
16:18:55 <gjanssens> (or not yet even)
16:19:45 <gjanssens> I still think the patch is ok for gnucash 2.6 regarding minimum requirements
16:20:11 <gjanssens> But I had a few questions which I added to your pull request.
16:20:24 <gjanssens> Can you follow up there ? I won't be on irc much longer today
16:20:37 <mlq> Yes, sure, just came back home and read the rest of the IRC messages
16:21:07 <mlq> Since my patches are against master, what is the current branch I should develop stuff like that?
16:23:46 <mlq> maint?
16:25:26 <warlord> gjanssens: I find that odd -- I have libsecret on F18 but only glib 2.34
16:25:54 <warlord> mlq: well, right now trunk and maint are still pretty close
16:26:11 <warlord> in general work should be off trunk..
16:26:21 <warlord> maint is more for bug fixes than features
16:27:22 <mlq> Okay
16:28:25 <mlq> I have to admit that I haven't apparently read the git wiki page carefully enough :|
16:28:50 <gjanssens> mlq: the git wiki needs updating
16:28:53 <warlord> no worries
16:29:01 <gjanssens> the branch strategy is not in there yet.
16:29:32 <gjanssens> In any case your patches are a special class
16:29:55 <gjanssens> In principle these aren't bugfixes so they should go on master (or trunk if you prefer the old svn name)
16:30:10 <gjanssens> You you chose the proper branch
16:30:46 <gjanssens> But I decided to evaluate them for maint anyway keeping gnucash' long release cycle in mind
16:31:29 <gjanssens> Suppose in 3-4 years some of the deprecated functions are really gone from the more aggressive distributions
16:31:47 <gjanssens> And gnucash 2.8 isn't released yet, we would have to back port the patches
16:32:14 <gjanssens> I'd rather avoid that and instead evaluate them now they are still fresh
16:32:47 <gjanssens> But I (or jralls) will rebase them if necessary so don't worry about it
16:33:10 <fell> gjanssens: jralls worked on the git wiki page.
16:33:21 <gjanssens> fell: oh, I may have missed that
16:33:29 <gjanssens> I was afk for more than a week
16:33:37 <gjanssens> I'll read up on it later
16:33:42 <fell> Nice journey?
16:35:40 <mlq> Okay, thanks for the info
16:36:06 <mlq> I've answered the questions in the pull request regarding libseret
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16:44:37 <mlq> I'm off now, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I will answer them tomorrow - good night!
16:45:35 <warlord> later
16:47:55 <gjanssens> bye mlq
16:48:25 <gjanssens> fell: yes, we had a nice break in Prague
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16:56:20 <gjanssens> warlord: Fedora 20 ships libsecret 0.16, the linuxfromscratch page deals with version 0.18
16:56:54 <gjanssens> mlq's patch also looks for version 0.18, presumably because it has a stable api
16:57:04 <warlord> I've got 0.12
16:57:16 <warlord> Okay
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16:57:23 <gjanssens> That might explain why it works with glib 2.34
16:57:37 <gjanssens> Anyway the rest will be for tomorrow
16:57:40 <gjanssens> Good night
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20:25:19 <skippy> wiki.gnucash page "Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash 2" makes me worry that there's a GnuCash 1 and maybe I should be using that. Are that two GnuCashes or should the page title be GnuCash 2.x?
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21:08:50 <fell> skippy: you are 8 years too late, to get the gnucash 1 series. ;-)
21:11:00 <fell> Search http://www.gnucash.org/oldnews.phtml for 2.0.0
21:16:18 <skippy> thanks! I thought that was the case but the set up is enough work that I wanted to make sure first.
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