2014-04-11 GnuCash IRC logs
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06:40:04 <warlord> mwc: yes, the dmg is signed with jralls' developer key
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12:49:42 <mwc> thanks, warlord -- just what I was looking for.
12:49:54 <warlord> Good
12:49:55 <warlord> :)
12:50:18 *** warlord changes topic to "Free GPL Personal and Small Business Accounting || Please don't ask to ask, just ask and wait! (Possibly a few hours!!) || publicly-logged channel || latest stable: 2.6.3 || www.gnucash.org"
12:50:29 <mwc> Is there anything special I need to do to validate the dmg?
12:50:42 <mwc> Like download jrall's key?
12:58:34 <warlord> No, Apple will do it automatically
12:59:35 <warlord> (i.e., it wont let you install an improperly signed app)
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13:21:55 <mwc> Thanks, warlord!
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13:38:56 <warlord> mwc: you're welcome
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13:45:50 <fell> jralls: I have a swiss mac user on gnucash-de. He gets the german number format 1.000,00 instead of the swiss 1'000,00.
13:46:42 <jralls> Frank, IIRC that's an error in Apple's /usr/share/locale/de_CH/LC_MONETARY
13:47:26 <fell> What can he do?
13:47:31 <jralls> or maybe LC_NUMERIC
13:48:00 <jralls> Edit the file by hand is pretty much the only recourse other than living with it.
13:49:16 <jralls> I suppose if he has a Linux box/VM around he could copy in the file from there.
13:50:22 <fell> Despite his Language&Region settings shows ' as grouping symbol?
13:51:30 <jralls> Yeah, Apple doesn't use libc's locale stuff at all. They use ICU, hidden in their own NS and CF wrapper classes.
13:54:30 <fell> Ok, I will try to install de_CH and send they.
14:00:22 <jralls> Tell him to mv his "official" files and to keep a spare copy of the Linux ones, as he'll probably have to reinstall after every OSX update.
14:08:35 <fell> Does he need utf8 or iso-8859-1?
14:12:38 <fell> jralls?
14:14:21 <warlord> I would guess utf8
14:16:48 <jralls> Both.
14:18:12 <jralls> There's also ISO8859-15, but it's LC_NUMERIC and LC_MONETARY are linked to ISO8859-1; LC-NUMERIC is linked to ../de_DE.ISO8859-1/LC_NUMERIC, which is the problem.
14:19:43 <fell> In -1 the € was not defined.
14:20:18 <fell> (family is calling)BIB.
14:23:15 <jralls> Switzerland isn't on the Euro. They have their own currency, the Swiss Franc (CHF).
14:24:56 <jralls> Actually, LC_NUMERIC isn't the problem. LC_MONETARY is. It has it's own decimal and separator characters, and they're , and ., respectively.
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15:28:22 <jralls> warlord: Derek, how's your memory of ancient GnuCash history, particularly the gobject branches from 2007?
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15:48:56 <warlord> I dont consider 2007 ancient... ;)
15:49:01 <warlord> What's the question, jralls ?
15:52:00 <jralls> There were to gobject-engine-dev branches in March 2007 by someone named Daniel Espinosa, then you started a branch gobject-engine-dev-warlord a few days later; you're branch was eventually merged with trunk.
15:52:26 <jralls> Did you merge any of Espinosa's changes into your branch?
15:55:39 <warlord> Probably not... What does the branch history say?
15:58:42 <jralls> I can't find any commits that say that you did.
15:59:20 <jralls> But there are a lot of commits.
16:01:08 <warlord> I think the code in esodan's branch(es) diverged too much and took a left turn at Albequerque, so the relevant work was redone in a different branch and then merged in.
16:01:37 <jralls> OK. Albuquerque, eh?
16:02:28 <warlord> It's where everyone should've taken that left turn
16:05:54 <jralls> Coming from your direction, we'd all have to learn Spanish. From mine, convert to Mormon.
16:07:43 <warlord> hahah
16:07:51 <warlord> Spanish speaking Mormons?
16:08:22 <jralls> There are plenty of them, sure. It's a missionary church.
16:08:28 <warlord> true
16:08:37 <warlord> (I've got a bunch of Mormon friends)
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16:43:36 <cantos> Hello. I just migrated to 2.6 from 2.4, on Windows. My books are completely screwed; unbalanced, because gnucash has modified foreign currency transactions going back to when I started using it.
16:44:05 <cantos> Can anyone explain to me why that is? Why gnucash, without warning, has unbalanced all my foreign accounts? Because it's totally flabbergasting me.
16:44:57 <cantos> As an example, I had a small set of Euros converted to USD; my sales account was balanced (converted to USD). However, it was showing a balance again, because it seems every transaction I had an exchange rate for is now wrong.
16:45:26 <cantos> And it seems the 'fix' is to go through every transaction (for 2 years!) and change from using an actual exchange rate, to putting a 'debit' balance. Any information about just what the hell happened would be appreciated.
16:49:56 <warlord> cantos: first, you could always revert to a backup from before you upgraded. It sounds like 'trading accounts' got turned on and is affecting you.. When that's turned on the way multi-currency works is... different.
16:50:17 <cantos> But those were already on.
16:50:48 <cantos> Everything was 'fine' in 2.4 --- as in, all the trading accounts had 0 balances, and my sales accounts all were 0.
16:50:49 <warlord> If they were already on, I dont understand what you mean by a transaction without an exchange rate?
16:50:56 <cantos> After upgrading. Well.... here's an example.
16:51:07 <cantos> I have a GBP sale of £2.51. That's $4.11 on that particular date.
16:51:25 <warlord> okay
16:51:37 <cantos> The $4.11 gets adding to my USD receivable (which is tied to my actual bank deposits). The £2.51 gets added to Trading:GBP
16:51:44 <cantos> and the $4.11 to Trading:USD
16:51:51 <cantos> For that transaction, which was okay... after the upgrade
16:52:08 <cantos> one side was £2.51, and the other was £6.62
16:52:18 <cantos> and an Imbalance:GBP automatically created in the entry.
16:52:32 <cantos> For some reason, that entry, that was perfectly fine, after upgrade, suddenly seemed to want to add the USD to GBP
16:52:53 <cantos> To 'fix', if I click on the $4.11, edit exchange rate, change to 'debit', and put £2.51, then it's 'balanced' again.
16:52:53 <warlord> cantos: the original transaction is missing a split
16:53:02 <cantos> I've had to do that for over 100 transactions!
16:53:23 <cantos> Can you elaborate? I'm using 'journal' view, so shouldn't I be seeing the splits?
16:53:50 <warlord> $4.11 in receivables-USD and Trading-USD... £2.51 in Trading-GBP and .... what?
16:54:27 <cantos> All the transactions had the same pattern...
16:54:30 <jralls> cantos: Before the upgrade, was there a GBP-USD exchange rate in the pricedb for the date of the transaction?
16:54:38 <cantos> I'm not sure...
16:54:43 <warlord> with trading accounts for a balanced transaction you need at least FOUR splits.. Two "regular" splits and two "trading account" splits
16:55:16 <warlord> it sounds like you didn't have that fourth split... so the migration to 2.6 "fixed" that -- because your orignal books were broken
16:55:32 <cantos> For each of my foreign sales I have: Receivables:GBP, Trading:Currency:USD, Revenue:Sales:[Product] (USD), and Trading:Currency:GBP
16:56:02 <warlord> Ah, okay, you skipped the Revenue account
16:56:39 <cantos> I appreciate the help here; I'm not sure I understand. If my books were broken and the upgrade flagged that, then that means this won't bite me later, which is good.
16:56:40 <warlord> The trading-usd should counter the revenue-usd, and trading-gbp should counter the receivables-gbp
16:56:45 <cantos> But I'm not following what I did 'wrong'.
16:57:22 <warlord> I'd have to see an original transaction from 2.4 with the older book to see what you may have done wrong.
16:57:48 <cantos> 2.6 uninstalled 2.4... so I can't open it back there... but... each foreign transaction has 4 'items'...
16:57:52 <warlord> Also note that in 2.6 the view shows you the value in the split-account currency, not the account register currency like it did before..
16:58:00 <cantos> Can you think why me manually adding a 'debit' in 'edit exchange rate' fixes each?
16:58:39 <warlord> Honestly, not offand.. I've never used the trading accounts. mta isn't here (he wrote that code).
16:58:48 <warlord> jralls: do you have a clue?
16:59:22 <cantos> What's just so flustering is, I made sure everything was 'good' before upgrading. I have a back up.. and nothing 'important' got zinged. My bank balance, my revenues, etc... all untouched.
16:59:41 <cantos> It's just all the foreign sales suddenly were off, and a ton in my 'imbalance' accounts.
17:00:47 <warlord> worst case you could send this question to the gnucash-user mailing list. I know mta listens there. It might take longer to get a reply but there are many more people who might be able to help
17:01:19 <cantos> I was tempted to, but then I tend to think it's usually my ignorance when I see something like this, so thought I'd ask here first.
17:01:21 <jralls> Not sure that cantos did anything wrong. Depending on how he entered the transactions in the first place GC might not have written the exchange rate for that day to the pricedb.
17:01:38 <cantos> Note, this isn't ALL my foreign transactions...
17:02:07 <jralls> cantos: What FX txns weren't affected?
17:02:11 <cantos> Which is the weird part. I'm pretty sure for every transaction, when the 'edit exchange rate' window popped up, I consistently put the rate in.
17:02:21 <warlord> the pricedb entries (or lack thereof) shouldn't affect txn scrubbing
17:02:23 <cantos> I didn't see any particular pattern.
17:03:07 <cantos> What I mean about putting it in, is, like, on 2012/08/11, for EUR, I have 1.33414 for the conversion...
17:04:03 <cantos> for that particular entry, it was 3.27 EUR to 4.36 USD. That one was messed up (can't remember the imbalance... $1.22?)... the 'fix' was to click on $4.36, change from having the rate (1.33414) to debit (3.27 EUR)... and then it's 'fixed'
17:04:12 <cantos> I didn't change _any_ of the accounts of the split, though. JUST that part.
17:04:28 <cantos> And originally, with the rate, it didn't have an imbalance!
17:06:01 <jralls> Do you have any left that are still broken?
17:06:25 <cantos> Actually, let me save, copy old file, and open, and I can tell you what the broken ones look like... (I appreciate the help...because this really has me... puzzled)
17:06:41 <jralls> Me too.
17:06:57 <jralls> Are using the XML backend?
17:08:14 <cantos> I don't know: I think I'm using the sqllite3...
17:08:35 <cantos> How do I check?
17:09:40 <cantos> And, opening the 'perfectly fine file' (from 2.4) in 2.6, for that transaction I typed above (the 3.27 EUR)... here's what it opens up as
17:11:27 <cantos> Assets:Receivables:EUR:Itemized - 3.27, Trading:CURRENCY:USD $4.36, Imbalance:EUR 1.09, Revenue - USD:Sales - Itemized: [product]: $4.36, Trading:Currency:EUR $4.36
17:11:40 <cantos> That's the same pattern for every single one that's 'wrong'.
17:12:41 <cantos> And, I can't change that last EUR to 3.27, which it obviously needs to be, before I click on the $4.36, edit exchange rate, check 'debit amount' instead of 'exchange rate', and put 3.27. THEN I can click on the EUR 4.36 and put 3.27, and it's balanced.
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17:12:57 <jralls> Thought it might be 1.09. It's ignoring the exchange rate.
17:13:54 <jralls> If you haven't already, try just clicking "edit exchange rate", then click "OK" on the dialog box.
17:14:03 <cantos> Before opening in 2.6, though, that transaction had those values --- EUR 3.27, $4.36, $4.36, EUR 3.27
17:14:26 <cantos> That didn't do anything...
17:14:55 <cantos> (I haven't changed (fixed) anything, now; this is the old file, opened to look, so it's virgin and wrong).
17:15:06 <jralls> Must be logic in the handler that notices if you do something.
17:16:03 <jralls> What OS are you on?
17:16:07 <cantos> Windows. ;-(
17:16:35 <jralls> Too bad. It's the only one that won't let you have both 2.4 and 2.6 side by side.
17:16:37 <cantos> You know, what's really odd... is, if I click on that $4.36, edit exchange rate --- it shows the rate as 1.00 --- 1 USD = 1.00000 EUR
17:17:04 <cantos> If I put 1.33414 in there, and hit okay --- it's gone when I open it back up, and it's back to 1.00
17:17:23 <cantos> If there's something useful you think it'll tell, I can probably install it on my 'nix box quickly...
17:18:21 <cantos> So, it's not just me, this IS weird behavior? To have previously 'fine' transactions suddenly show up as being imbalanced?
17:18:28 <jralls> On your 'nix box you can run "file" and see whether it's a SQLite3 database or a gzipped XML file.
17:18:40 <jralls> I'm sure it's not just you.
17:20:33 <cantos> SQLite 3.x database...
17:20:33 <jralls> I know there are some odd behaviors with exchange rates in split view. For one thing, if you were to actually change the exchange rate, you'd also have to edit the amount to match.
17:20:58 <jralls> OK. That adds another potential wrinkle.
17:21:49 <cantos> I wish it were a lot less complicated... for my purposes, I never actually touch foreign currency; I see the sales; I get paid with USD. Ie, I know I told £2.51, but I get $4.11, direct deposit. (Or $4.10, or $4.12, depending...).
17:22:11 <cantos> It seems like I almost need to just keep an excel spreadsheet and only stick to the one currency, which is frustrating. What wrinkle does it being .sql add?
17:22:31 <jralls> Can you open your backup in 2.4 on your unix box and use Save As to resave it as an XML file, then open *that* in 2.6 and see if it's similarly borked? I need to rule out the possibility of it being a SQL backend problem.
17:23:25 <jralls> The SQL backend in 2.4 had a bunch of corners where it didn't save everything. Amount and value shouldn't have been one of those corners, but the easiest way to be sure is to try.
17:23:42 <cantos> Sure --- and thankfully (I've got crap bandwidth) it looks like the last 2.4 stable's only 9mb. Give me a couple minutes...
17:24:08 <cantos> I thought sqlite would probably be smarter than xml --- I vaguely recall somewhere I got to chose... should I change that in the future, or leave it as is?
17:26:50 <jralls> If it's working OK for you otherwise, you can leave it. I use it myself.
17:29:27 <cantos> augh. erm. I didn't notice I'm downloading the source and not the binary. sigh.
17:32:37 <fell> jralls I sent the files to the swiss guy and expect his answer tomorrow.
17:32:59 <jralls> fell: OK.
17:58:37 <warlord> jralls: FYI, I don't know when xacc got renamed to 'gnucash'.. it is possible that those xacc release branches really are xacc and not gnucash releases.
18:00:23 <jralls> They are. Looks like "gnucash" and "gnc" were introduced for 1.4
18:03:05 <warlord> Hmm
18:03:17 <warlord> Okay. I thought I remembered "gnucash 1.2"
18:04:36 <jralls> Maybe you do. There's a change very shortly after xacc-12-patch was branched with "gnucash" in the README, and it's not what changed in the commit.
18:04:53 <warlord> Huh
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18:07:38 <jralls> And the command file "gnucash" exists before xacc-12-patch.
18:11:56 <warlord> Okay, so i guess it's all one thing.
18:18:31 <jralls> It was X-Accountant for 1.0, though. Looks like the change was 3 November 1998. In r1377 Linas added an lsm file for xacc 1.0.18, and in 1379 changed it to gnucash 1.1.22.
18:19:02 <cantos> Well. This is fun. My 'nix box didn't have the stuff to compile; fixed all that. But in the meantime, just used synaptic. Installed 2.4.10. It segfaults. It won't open the file...
18:20:35 <jralls> Sigh. You probably introduced an incompatibile version of something when you started chasing dependencies to build with.
18:23:59 <cantos> Sigh. Okay, the specific error, btw is: The server at URL file::///home/test/file.gnucash experienced an error or encountered bad or corrupted data.
18:25:23 <cantos> I still have 2.4.12 for windows. At this point considering the time, let me just toss up a Windows vm and put that in there. One moment.
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18:31:10 <cantos> Huh. THAT's a WTF. 2.4.12 on Windows -> Save As XML --- gnucash on Linux (that I typed above with the segfault?) opens, no error...
18:34:08 <cantos> Aaaaaaannndd a double WTF. Opening the file in 2.6.3... and things are the way they should be, immediately. Trading:CURRENCY:EUR = €0, Trading:CURRENCY:GBP = £0... ...
18:35:45 <cantos> Every single screwed up transaction, isn't. Looking at the xchng rate, I'm not sure I trust that (1 USD = 3 EUR?) but everything's balanced the way it should be. So, what the hell?!
18:36:33 <cantos> I opened my backed up file (last good with 2.4.12), save as, XML. That's it. Didn't touch anything else. That file opened on both 'nix and in 2.6.3, no errors. So, that means my database was silently corrupted?
18:38:58 <jralls> Doesn't seem to have been silent, but yeah, there's a problem in there somewhere. Please file a bug.
18:39:23 * cantos laughs
18:39:30 <cantos> Sorry, 'silently corrupted on windows'
18:40:41 <cantos> Now I don't know if I should use my 'corrected' file, or the xml one, that didn't need 'correcting'. Gah. Well, thank you for your patience and help --- at least I know it's my set up and not something gnucash did.
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