2014-03-12 GnuCash IRC logs

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09:30:28 <Chris> Hello :)
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09:33:39 <Chris> So I got a few questions and I hope someone is here and able to answer some:
09:35:18 <Chris> 1) Am I able to add monthly interest rates for an account?
09:36:19 <Chris> 2) When I move money between my accounts e.g. take 10 bucks from an ATM on monday -> +10 on my cash account on monday, but -10 on my bank account on tuesday/wednesday. is there a way to edit this?
09:37:39 <Chris> 3) In the description i put where the money comes from/goes to. Is there a way to get a list how much money a month/year goes to a person?
09:40:07 <warlord> Chris: 1) I'm not sure what you mean by "monthly interest rates" You can certainly add an interest transaction every month.
09:40:49 <warlord> 2) No, a single transaction has only one date, which is generally the "initiation date". You can mark a transaction as "cleared" when it actually posts to your account, and then "reconcied" when you reconcile your asset/liability accounts against your statement
09:41:25 <warlord> 3) The Transaction Report *might* have a way to sort by Description.. But generally, no, there is not a report that I know of currently that will do that. You could, however, write one if the txn report doesn't do it.
09:42:05 <Chris> 1) not sure if that's exactly the right word but what I mean is: I get money every month. for giving my money to the bank. i think that's the interst rate. Am I able to make a transaction every month which is always e.g. 1% of my money on that account?
09:43:03 <Chris> 2) just found it in the FAQ. I guess I'll go with the advice to add another account as a storage
09:43:23 <Chris> 3) hmm.. too bad. thanks though
09:53:32 <warlord> Chris: sure, just enter a transaction as <current balance>*.01 (you need to manually fill out the 'current balance'). Alternately, just read off the interest amount from your statement and enter it in
09:54:36 <warlord> Note that if you do add the suspense account you will lose the direct mapping between the accounts. Generally this is frowned upon. Really, do you NEED to know the exact date a transaction happened? Think about if you write a check. You have no control over when they cash it!
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09:58:09 <Chris> So it is not possible to automatically add 1% of the balance every month?
09:59:00 <Chris> I use the software just for an overview and I want to know exactly when I got how much money. I don't do anything actually important with it.
10:05:54 <warlord> no.
10:06:42 <warlord> Even with an SX there is no "balance-as-of-date' function with which you can compute the actual interest. Besides, you wouldn't want GnuCash to compute that for you because your account might not exactly match the bank's.
10:06:58 <warlord> (c.f. my previous example of a check that hasn't cleared)
10:07:54 <warlord> Trust me, if you don't *need* the dates to be exact for some strange legal reason, then don't. You'll find that it's much easier to ignore transit time so that you don't need to enter multiple transactions for every real transaction.
10:10:15 <Chris> well, what disadvantage will that have besides doing two records?
10:11:30 <Chris> And the account where I want to compute interest rarely gains money (just monthly interest and sometimes a bit money from my other accounts)
10:12:24 <warlord> IMHO that is a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage.. It's harder to enter in twice, and you lose the binding between the accounts.
10:13:03 <warlord> If you look at just your Checking account, you only see a transaction that goes into the suspense account. You lose the binding of WHERE that money went. Did it go into your pocket? Did it go to your wife? Did it go to a grocery store?
10:13:35 <warlord> As for computing interest -- you're talking 12 transactions a year. Is it really that much work to wait a week and enter it off the statement?
10:14:09 <Chris> Well I don't have that much bookings to do so it is not much more expenditure for me. And til now I never needed binding. As said I clearly write in the description where my money goes. Of course it is not much work, but I justed wanted to know ;)
10:16:11 <warlord> Except in very rare circumstances, GAAP does not require multiple transactions. Your dates do not need to match the bank's dates -- your books are your books, their books are their books. They don't need to match.
10:16:27 <warlord> It's more important for you to know that you initiated a transaction as opposed to when the bank actually processes it.
10:20:03 <Chris> For me most important is where my money is at which time. who cares that I made a transaction to one account on friday when it is there on monday. I want to know where my money is, not where it is not
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10:21:53 <warlord> Okay, so you're strange. ;)
10:22:18 <Chris> yeah, i might be^^
10:22:27 <warlord> Most people care about what money has been promised, not necessarily whether the transfer completed. (c.f. uncached check example, again)
10:23:06 <warlord> For example, if you wrote a $100 check to me today... And I didn't cash it until April 15th... How would you record that? Wouldn't you want your bank account to reflect that you wrote that check, so you don't overdraw on your account?
10:24:43 <Chris> Well, that is something I don't do. Most of the time I have cash into or out of the atm. so it's all about what i have or what i dont have
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10:36:10 <warlord> Still, if you pulled $400 out of the ATM, wouldn't you want to remember that you already did that (even if the bank doesn't show it yet) so you don't pull another $400 out and overdraw?
10:36:53 <Chris> in that case I would see it in my cash-account where I had a booking
10:38:09 <warlord> Sure, but you wouldn't know your Bank account balance, which is really the important thing.
10:38:20 <warlord> (because you wouldn't have moved it from the suspense acct)
10:38:55 <Chris> Usually the bank does not take that long, that I'd forget, that I took money from it
10:40:37 <warlord> True, but IMNSHO it's better if you don't have to depend on the bank. That's the whole point of keeping your own finances
10:43:05 <warlord> Seriously, I think you're better off without the suspense account.
10:43:37 <warlord> When you take $400 out of the ATM you really should consider that it happens instantaneously, even if technically it takes a day or two
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10:51:06 <Chris> I will take it into consideration :) Thanks for your help, gotta go ;)
10:52:56 <warlord> Enjoy
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12:22:25 <SteveG> The bookkeeping exam I took required a profit and loss account to show the gross profit (sales - Cost of Sales) as well as the net profit. In Gnucash I could only find a report that produced net profit so I lost some marks on that. Is it possible to produce a report that shows both gross profit and net profit?
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12:37:47 <warlord> GnuCash doesn't do inventory, so there is no direct "Cost of Sales"
12:39:11 <SteveG> what would it take to provide that functionality please?
12:41:27 <warlord> You providing a patch to the report to do it, which would require you to specify which accounts affect the "Cost of Sales"
12:42:24 <SteveG> Would the patch be something just incorporated into my version of GnuCash or would it be something incorporated into future releases of the program?
12:42:52 <warlord> Depends if you submit the patch.
12:43:20 <warlord> Patches submitted (and based off 2.6.x) are likely to be accepted and put into future releases.
12:44:47 <SteveG> The importance of this to my mind is that there are thousands of students (like me) who are buying expensive software to get their exams and GnuCash is almost able to get them 100%. I did pass Level III diploma in bookkeeping using Gnucash....
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12:48:13 <warlord> Cool
12:48:13 <SteveG> Is it a goal of GnuCash to become more popular?
12:48:20 <SteveG> Thanks!
12:48:36 <warlord> I don't know -- you'll have to ask the software.. but it's never answered me ;)
12:51:18 <SteveG> Hmmm. I would like to engage with this but it would be a long term haul for me to develop the skills. I think it would be very worthwhile though. I can do a little PHP and mySQL programming. Could you point me to any descriptions as to how a report can be generated within GnuCash. I have seen a wiki which went over my head about Guile?!
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12:58:36 <SteveG> I get the feeling GnuCash is telling me it doesn't want to be more popular :/
12:59:06 <warlord> The report is written in Scheme
12:59:26 <warlord> Guile is a scheme interpreter
12:59:32 <warlord> (the one used by GnuCash)
13:00:55 <SteveG> OK thanks I will try and get my head round it.
13:01:33 <warlord> Good luck.
13:01:40 <warlord> You can probably start with the existing P&L report.
13:02:25 <SteveG> Do I download the source code from GIT to look at it?
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13:03:34 <warlord> You can.. Or you can just start with the installed scheme -- scheme is interpretted. you dont need to rebuild gnucash to change the reports.
13:04:32 <SteveG> How do I see the scheme code from my installed version of GnuCash
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13:05:13 <warlord> It's found in your install directory.. Actual path will depend on OS/Distro and how you installed GnuCash
13:05:54 <SteveG> OK I will look into that later this eve. Better get on with the day job. Thanks for your help. Bye
13:09:59 <warlord> Good luck.
13:10:29 <warlord> FYI, the file you are looking for is called income-statement.scm
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15:31:28 <warlord> Grr... I *thought* comcrap had fixed their cable plant, but apparently not..
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15:51:45 <Daum> hi guys - when you run a transaction report, the Total for a specific account is for transactions during that time only correct? It doesn't include a starting balanc
15:53:10 <warlord> Daum: generally true, yes
15:53:20 <warlord> But I think it might depend on the settings
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16:05:08 <Daum> ok hm will look
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16:19:29 <Daum> yep it seems it does
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16:28:59 <Daum> if you mark an invoice as 'inactive' it still shows up in receivable aging/accounts recievable is there anyway to prevent that?
16:31:00 <warlord> Unpost it.
16:31:08 <warlord> The reports will always include all posted invoices.
16:31:18 <warlord> "inactive" only affects searches
16:32:15 <warlord> Why would you want to exclude a posted (realized) invoice from the reports?
16:32:26 <Daum> warlord, bad debt
16:33:05 <Daum> so we posted an invoice
16:33:07 <Daum> client pays 1/2
16:33:11 <Daum> then goes bankrupt
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16:35:21 <warlord> Daum: Process Payment for the remaining,then change the account from your Bank/Cash account to Expenses:WriteOffs
16:35:43 <Daum> ah yea that'd work too
16:35:57 <warlord> It's the "right" thing -- to actually "write off" the bad debt
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17:12:24 <trams> hey gnucash. Just tried downloading gnucash builds from sf. However, i could not find any gpg signatures.
17:13:04 <trams> are there any such signatures available?
17:13:37 <trams> if none are available, is it possible to download binaries from a system where TLS is used?
17:13:44 <trams> ie, download it over https?
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17:19:39 <warlord> trams: we don't sign the sources or the packages.. and SF doesn't support TLS downloads..
17:19:45 <warlord> What exactly are you worried about?
17:19:55 <warlord> You can always verify the sources against git
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17:21:27 <trams> warlord: I would like to install the binaries on my system. I would like to ensure that i get the binaries that are distributed by the project
17:21:59 <warlord> And you don't trust SF's infrastructure?
17:22:03 <trams> i would also like to know that nobody at sourceforge, or a compromised mirror, or a malicious sysadm somewhere modified the binary
17:22:06 <trams> no
17:22:26 <warlord> What OS?
17:22:49 <trams> and i don't trust sf since they started wrapping installers with adware
17:22:51 <trams> in this case, OSX
17:23:26 <warlord> Alas, jralls isn't here to give you the sha1sum.
17:23:36 <trams> While i would like to, i doubt the commits to git are signed if the packages are not. Am i correct in this?
17:23:51 <warlord> Nothing is "signed"
17:24:58 <trams> Ok, that was unfortunate.
17:25:12 <warlord> ? what was?
17:27:01 <trams> that is no way for me to download binaries that can be verified. Should i file a bug for this? Ie, maybe low priority but would still be desirable
17:27:39 <warlord> No, it will be closed
17:27:41 <warlord> (most likely)
17:28:54 <trams> Ok. Is there anything i can do to help with this issue?
17:28:59 <warlord> I think we get like 1 or two requests a year
17:29:08 <warlord> Unlikely
17:29:56 <warlord> The problem is that there is no "single person" that makes releases, so no single person who can have access to the key. The packages themselves are made in various places by various people/tools
17:30:52 <warlord> Theoretically the dev who uploads the packages could also publish a sha1sum of the files, but a) most users wouldn't even know what to do with that, and b) it doesn't solve your paranoid fears because theoretically it could have been attacked earlier in the chain.
17:31:04 <trams> Perhaps this can be solved by having multiple keys for different builds?
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17:31:45 <warlord> Too much work/overhead for the 2-3 people that care
17:31:46 <trams> Sure, but it would solve some of the issues, in the sense that i can verify that i actually got the software intended, especially if it is published over a https
17:31:53 <warlord> What issues?
17:32:04 <warlord> We have no control over SF's distribution network.
17:33:00 <warlord> You could also download it from multiple sources and comapre..
17:33:01 <trams> exactly. But if the checksums are published on the gnucash website, and also over https, then i can atleast know that random ftpserver foo has not been compromised
17:33:03 <warlord> compare, even
17:33:20 <trams> sure, that would be a way. How do i know which one was the correct one?
17:34:06 <warlord> If they match then all of them.
17:34:14 <warlord> If they don't match, you email gnucash-devel
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17:36:43 <trams> Ok, thanks for all help, even if it was not the answers i hoped for.
17:38:41 <trams> I guess i will have to install a VM. Well, can't be helped.
17:39:57 <warlord> thats always an option, of course
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17:43:02 <trams> Ah it is signed.
17:43:23 <trams> I apologize. Just signed by apples developer id.
17:43:36 <trams> John D Ralls,
17:43:51 <trams> A Developer of gnucash i pressume. :)
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20:00:46 <amjam> Hie veryone.
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20:24:37 <warlord> trams: yes, that's jralls.
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20:40:20 <warlord> (sorry, didnt even think about the Apple Developer signature on there)
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