2014-01-20 GnuCash IRC logs

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05:01:34 <floh1111_mobil> Hi, I'm using gnucash to check our banking account via hbci. Now I upated to 2.6.0 and tried to check our account tournovers. But I cannot do this because the button is grey and I cannot click on it.
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05:03:40 <floh1111_mobil> Is there anything new doing this in the new version? Our account seems to be set up well in aqbanking and I did not changed anything in settings
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08:29:53 <warlord> floh1111_: I dont use HBCI, but it is possible that you need to "upconvert" the AqBanking configuration files as part of the GnuCash upgrade.
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13:09:31 <fell> floh1111_: Eventually fiduca changed the server address and other setting, when changing to SEPA.
13:10:48 <fell> So you should check the website of your bank for this.
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13:24:25 <nofrills> Hi all. Using gnucash 2.6.0 and I may have found a bug in stock splits...or I'm just confused. When I complete the stock split assistant (doing a 2:1), the account tree shows the new total, but the account register does not have the split transaction and shows the old total.
13:25:27 <jmd> nofrills: The user interface for splits is indeed very confusing.
13:28:57 <nofrills> I'll tolerate any amount of confusing UI...and maybe I'm just doing it wrong. Thought I followed the instructions in the guide. What perplexes me is that the Accounts tab does indeed show correct, but the register doesn't update. The user guide shows that there should be a new transaction automatically created by the assistant. I also expected a new price to be entered in the price editor data, but neither is there. Am
13:33:17 <warlord> nofrills: maybe close and reopen the register page?
13:35:52 <nofrills> warlord: good suggestion, which I did indeed try (and restarted the app too) but no luck. I'm willing to work around it if the stock assistant has a bug, but I'm not sure what the steps would be to create a split manually. Does anyone know how?
13:36:55 <warlord> I'm not sure how the Chart of Accounts would show the correct # of shares but the register wouldn't..
13:38:57 <jmd> The only way I've ever been able to get split transactions right is with a genetic algorithm approach : click on random buttons; Is the result correct? If not quit Gnucash, start it again, and have another go.
13:39:39 <nofrills> warlord: Me neither...totally confuses me.
13:40:55 <warlord> nofrills: Can you imagebin a screen shot of the CoA and associated register?
13:41:10 <warlord> jmd: do you mean Stock Split Txn, or just a "Split Txn"?
13:41:39 <nofrills> It was for an unlisted stock, and the namespace thing was buggy. So I recreated the account an put the stock into a standard namespace (AMEX for instance), but still fails.
13:42:46 <nofrills> Sure, I'll grab a screenshot.
13:42:58 <warlord> nofrills: the namespace doesn't matter (so long as you don't use "template")
13:43:12 <warlord> It's a free-for-all text string, you can type in whatever you want for it.
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13:46:43 <nofrills> warlord: good to know about the text string. What I found was that if I use "Unlisted" as the name space, it wouldn't keep it. When I went back to "Edit Account..." after creating it, something like "dummy namespace" was listed.
13:47:42 <nofrills> Confusing to explain that. What I means is that when assigning a security to an account, it wouldn't keep it unless I use a standard namespace.
13:52:43 <warlord> Ummmm... That should definitely not be the case.
13:52:46 <warlord> Anything should be okay.
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13:57:50 <jralls> I just tested the split assistant. Works fine, fails safe, drains to the bilge.
13:59:47 <jmd> Split Txn I think.
14:00:04 <jmd> Also the scheduled transaction editor I find hard to use.
14:00:06 <nofrills> Here are three images: the CoA and the register showing different amounts, and a shot of the dummy namespace thing.
14:00:13 <nofrills> http://imagebin.org/287824
14:00:20 <nofrills> http://imagebin.org/287825
14:00:25 <nofrills> http://imagebin.org/287826
14:02:21 <jralls> I also don't see what's confusing about it except that it wants the number of shares gained in the split rather than the ratio of the split. First screen: Pick the stock to split. Second screen: Set the date, the number of shares, and the description. Optionally add a price and currency. Third screen: Enter cash in lieu (of partial shares), pick the income account and destination account. Apply. Pretty intuitive to me, anyway. And no, I didn't write it.
14:03:22 <jralls> jmd: You mean Actions>Split Transaction? That's just the menu equivalent of the split button on the toolbar.
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14:10:38 <jralls> nofrills: You have to click the "new" button and create the type in the security editor. Entering it in the select security dialog doesn't do anything.
14:10:43 <jmd> Well anyway, I think that gnucash is great. Just two areas where it could be better. The user interface, and the limitations on account permissions.
14:10:59 <jmd> just my $0.02
14:12:16 <jralls> nofrills: Use Tools>General Ledger and look at the split transaction. There's a transaction somewhere with those shares.
14:12:24 <nofrills> jralls: yes, thanks. I was just showing what it looked like when I return to the account after having already created it, then click on the security type. Instead of showing the security type listed in the account properties page, the image shows what the "select security type" offers. It has apparently "forgotten" what I entered if the type is in a custom namespace.
14:16:07 <jralls> No, it hasn't forgotten... but it's indeed gone off to la-la land. Click the list-reveal button and "Unlisted" should appear on the list, and when you select it your stock should also appear in the security listbox.
14:17:25 <warlord> jmd: what do you mean "limitation of account permissions"?
14:17:26 <nofrills> OK, good. I'll just ignore the 'dummy namespace' thing and continue on as if nothing happened :^)
14:17:58 <jralls> And I'll go have a look to see where that's coming from.
14:21:51 <jmd> warlord: Well it's impossible to give access only on certain accounts to certain users. It's all or nothing.
14:22:04 <jmd> At least it was last time I tried.
14:22:17 <jmd> Maybe in newer versions it has been fixed.
14:23:18 <nofrills> jmd: I used the General Ledger to search, and there is indeed no Stock Split transaction created. Somehow, "magically", it changes the amount of shares listed in the CoA, but leaves no trace elsewhere. I tried a couple of time to be sure, and also used different namespaces to make sure that wasn't related to the problem.
14:26:36 <nofrills> Since I work in software development, I understand how hard it is to find bugs when they don't reproduce on the developer's box. I'm using Win7 x64. I'll go open the file on another computer just for kicks.
14:27:08 <jralls> jmd: We rely on the file system, and GnuCash mostly cares about the directory, not the file. So compartmentalize by group and directory, setting perms to 770 on the directory. That will work on *nix, including OSX.
14:30:57 <jmd> Well I guessed that was the reason. Unfortunately it doesn't get one any closer to a solution.
14:32:22 <warlord> jmd: gnucash has no concept of "users" so I dont understand what you mean. It's not a multi-user system, and has never claimed to be
14:33:30 <warlord> You would share a gnucash datafile the same way you would share a text or spreadsheet document
14:34:30 <jmd> But you can only share absolutely EVERYTHING in the account heirachy or nothing at all.
14:35:21 <jralls> Right. By design. That isn't ever going to change. If you need that kind of functionality, GnuCash is the wrong program for you.
14:36:33 <jmd> At least that advice is clear!
15:02:39 <nofrills> Well, I've found out something...tried opening the file in gnucash 2.4 on ubuntu. The stock split transactions show there! I'll have to upgrade the ubuntu box to 2.6 to see if it is a gnucash version or a win/linux thing.
15:09:01 <warlord> Hmmmm
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15:18:29 <jralls> nofrills: Wait, I know the problem. Stock Split transactions have only one split. It's https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=721979
15:22:11 <nofrills> jralls: OK, thanks!!! I'll do the stock split on 2.4 and just ignore the weirdness on 2.6 and hope there will be a solution for this in a forthcoming release.
15:22:33 <jralls> It's already fixed and will be in 2.6.1.
15:23:30 <nofrills> THANK YOU!!! Huge thanks to all the gnucash devs. It is good stuff and worth a hundred times more than we have to pay for it ;-)
15:26:21 <warlord> And another happy customer! :)
15:26:50 <gjanssens> Only a hundred times ? I'd say infinitely more so by the same math ;)
15:27:53 <warlord> Let's see how long it takes to transfer 23GB between two VMs
15:27:53 <nofrills> You're right. (...I was rounding.)
15:27:54 <jmd> nofrills: You mean its worth nothing??
15:30:01 <gjanssens> LOL
15:30:26 <gjanssens> warlord: I started a copy operation on the windows vm a few minutes ago
15:30:36 <gjanssens> perhaps I better abort this then ?
15:30:57 <gjanssens> I meant to prepare to set up a weekly build for the 2.6 branch
15:32:14 <warlord> gjanssens: nah, it's okay for you to continue that. I'm just doing an rsync of the upload data to the new VM. This will save time later once I migrate
15:32:38 <gjanssens> Ah, ok
15:34:38 <warlord> Later I'll be doing an initial rsync of the rest of the data, too..
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15:35:31 <warlord> BIAW
15:36:56 <jralls> Geert, what do you think of releasing 2.6.1 this weekend?
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15:45:38 <gjanssens> jralls: I think that's probably a good idea
15:45:57 <gjanssens> There are quite a few fixes in the tree already that are worth releasing
15:46:33 <gjanssens> And personally I prefer frequent small releases over infrequent big ones
15:47:00 <gjanssens> I intend to look at the column width issue in the account hierarchy this week still
15:47:08 <gjanssens> So hopefully I get that ready in time
15:47:32 <jralls> So do I as long as the issues are being worked.
15:50:40 <jralls> OK. I just put it on the roadmap so I don't have to remember to check on it.
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15:51:26 <jralls> What about https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=721966? Is that going to involve major surgery?
16:05:30 <gjanssens> From the top of my head, not really
16:05:58 <gjanssens> Setting up the gsettings backing is done in app utils
16:06:33 <gjanssens> It's probably only a matter of adding the initialization function in the proper path
16:06:40 <gjanssens> (code path that is)
16:08:07 <jralls> That would be inner_main_price_quotes. I'll look to see if we're loading gncmod-app-utils. Just a sec.
16:11:24 <jralls> It doesn't, so we need to load that one module then call whatever it is that loads them. Is load_user_config what reads the settings?
16:12:13 <jralls> Oh, that's actually linked, so maybe we don't need the module.
16:14:21 * gjanssens is checking the code for the right init function
16:17:38 <gjanssens> The function that initializes gsettings is called gnc_prefs_init
16:18:02 <gjanssens> in src/app-utils/gnc-prefs-utils.c
16:19:19 <gjanssens> It's called in gnc_gui_init in src/gnome-utils/gnc-gnome-utils.c but perhaps it can be moved up the chain
16:19:36 <gjanssens> all the way into gnucash-bin.c
16:19:52 <gjanssens> The command line has to be parsed for sure
16:20:08 <gjanssens> I'm not sure it needs other things to be set up first
16:20:26 <jralls> Only one quick way to find out... ;-)
16:22:11 <gjanssens> The python bindings can bootstrap with this sequence:
16:22:14 <gjanssens> gnc_environment_setup();
16:22:15 <gjanssens> qof_log_init();
16:22:17 <gjanssens> qof_init();
16:22:18 <gjanssens> qof_query_init();
16:22:20 <gjanssens> gnc_module_system_init();
16:22:22 <gjanssens> char * no_args[1] = { NULL };
16:22:23 <gjanssens> gnc_engine_init(0, no_args);
16:22:24 <gjanssens> gnc_prefs_init();
16:23:10 <gjanssens> But even there I'm not even sure gnc_engine_init is required before gnc_prefs_init
16:23:24 <gjanssens> Are you going to run the test ?
16:23:44 * gjanssens is still stuck in real job priorities tonight
16:23:44 <jralls> Compiling now.
16:23:49 <gjanssens> Cool
16:26:05 <jralls> Well, that's interesting. I got an implicit function failure. I guess gnc-prefs.h doesn't include gnc-prefs-utils.h.
16:27:35 <gjanssens> That would be backwards
16:27:47 <gjanssens> gnc-prefs-utils.h includes gnc-prefs.h already
16:29:19 <gjanssens> Er, no gnc-prefs-utils.c includes gnc-prefs.h
16:30:08 <jralls> Ah, OK, so I can remove the include of gnc-prefs.h. But I'd normally think of prefs.h as the primary header. Think glib.h which includes all of the gfoo.h.
16:31:26 <gjanssens> The names have grown historically so
16:31:40 <gjanssens> gnc-prefs.h defines the preferences interface
16:31:47 <gjanssens> But it's an empty shell
16:31:57 <gjanssens> a backend has to be installed before any preferences can be used
16:32:06 <gjanssens> In this case the gsettings backen
16:32:33 <gjanssens> d
16:32:54 <gjanssens> but this one is in app-utils, while the generic interface is in core-utils
16:33:30 <gjanssens> so there's one additional init function that installs gsettings as backend
16:34:29 <gjanssens> It didn't want to put that function in gnc-gsettings because that would mean we had to include gnc-gsettings.h much higher up the chain
16:34:40 <gjanssens> effectively cancelling the encapsulation
16:34:52 <gjanssens> that why gnc-prefs-utils was invented
16:35:01 <gjanssens> (got to go now)
16:35:06 <jralls> Right. Plus it will make it much easier to migrate to whatever the new framework is.
16:35:20 <jralls> OK, g'night. BTW, it works.
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16:37:23 <carsteng> can't find the "passiva" account in gnu... there's just a activa account option ( german language settings ) ... anyone has a clue why?
16:38:16 <jralls> fell: That one's for you.
16:39:24 <fell> carsteng: Was hast du vor?
16:41:26 <carsteng> so gesehen habe ich vorgehabt, gnucash als buchhaltung, rechnung und EÜR zu nutzen. habe schon auf den diversen wikipedia seiten nach anhaltspunkte zu der richtigen kontoeinstellungen gesucht, bei dem einen wurde jetzt genannt, dass ich mein umsatzsteuer (19%) konto als typ "passiva" angeben sollte, jedoch gibt es bei den kontoeinstellungen ( rechtsklick auf das entsprechende konto ) kein passiva.
16:43:33 <fell> Leider hat GnuCash keinen eigenen Typ Passiva. Du mußt Dich also entscheiden, ob es Eigen- oder Fremdkapital sein soll.
16:44:04 <fell> Die beiden gibt es.
16:44:41 <fell> USt ist dann wohl Fremdkapital, weil du es dem Finanzamt schuldest.
16:49:11 <fell> I filed https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=421766 in 2007. :-(
16:51:01 <fell> gjanssens: How about dutch/belgian accounting theory. Is the active/passive pair there more usual or unusual.
16:56:27 <carsteng> ust. als fremdkapital anzulegen habe ich mir dann auch als nächstes gedacht. jetzt habe ich noch das problem, dass ich mit der "option steuerbericht" im hauptmenü nicht so klar komme, also wie man das generell bei dem thema ust. und EÜR das für den steuerbericht oder elster export einstellt
17:00:15 <fell> caersteng: Hast du schon mal http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/Konfiguration#GnuCash_im_Gesch.C3.A4ftseinsatz gelesen?
17:03:13 <fell> Je nachdem, wie umfangreich deine Geschäftstätigkeit ist, kannst du auch einen der Kontenrahmen nehmen, die vom Neue-Datei-Assistenten angeboten werden.
17:03:43 <fell> Da sollte dann schon einiges vorkonfiguriert sein.
17:09:42 <gjanssens> fell: the balances I see for my business(es) always mention active/passive
17:10:12 <gjanssens> and passive then is split up in "Eigen vermogen"/"Vreemd vermogen"
17:10:43 <gjanssens> (and now I'm really gone - bye)
17:11:06 <fell> same here. Good night!
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17:35:03 <ambimorph> hello
17:35:18 <carsteng> hi ambimorph
17:35:35 <ambimorph> Hi carsteng.
17:35:55 <ambimorph> I'm setting up my first gnucash accounts. :-)
17:36:25 <ambimorph> I would like to put a BTC account, but that's not one of the listed currencies.
17:37:03 <ambimorph> Any recommendations?
17:37:18 <carsteng> I'm also playing around with gnucash to setup the first accounts and have some difficulties of my own ;)
17:37:26 <ambimorph> I see.
17:37:31 <warlord> ambimorph: create a fund account and create a new security mBTC (miliBTC, or 1/1000 BTC) and use it that way
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17:37:53 <ambimorph> Ah. Great, thanks warlord. I'll try it.
17:38:22 <ambimorph> mili because of a precision limit?
17:38:38 <warlord> Yes
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17:49:51 <ambimorph> Ok. I think that worked. Thanks again!
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19:13:56 <warlord> you're welcome
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21:21:58 <warlord> Think there will be a major objection if I upgrade the server ssh key when I migrate the server?
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22:25:25 <warlord> Grrrrrr
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22:38:00 <warlord> Rebootus: Must I do it again?
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