2014-01-16 GnuCash IRC logs
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04:46:46 <fell> gjanssens: I commented on bug 410060 and relatives. As I don't use windows somebody else has to search where the error happens.
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07:58:28 <tlcoles> New gnucash user. American in Germany on German laptop. Installs in English but UI is in German. Anyone know where the language switcher is?
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08:35:57 <gjanssens> tlcoles2: see http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Locale_Settings
08:36:39 <gjanssens> fell: the bug you unduplicated from 410060 has indeed another issue. I didn't notice that at first
08:37:08 <gjanssens> I got confused because it also mentions the issue of displaying fractions instead of decimals
08:37:17 <gjanssens> thanks for correcting me :)
08:38:57 <tlcoles2> gjanssens: I do not want to change my computer's system settings, merely the language of gnucash UI. I can speak some German just not enough for financial work.
08:38:57 <tlcoles2> gjanssens: and thank you for that reply. :)
08:40:00 <fell> tlcoles2: which account templates do you need: DE or US?
08:41:45 <gjanssens> tlcoles2: you didn't mention your operating system, but you can probably read the section on windows in that page
08:42:01 <gjanssens> hmm disregard that.
08:42:24 <gjanssens> actually no, you can apply that section to a linux pc as well
08:42:36 <tlcoles2> gjanssens: sorry, I am knew to IRC. Windows 7 on a German laptop
08:42:42 <tlcoles2> new
08:42:45 <gjanssens> ok
08:42:59 <gjanssens> the section on windows on that page will only change the language for gnucash
08:43:03 <gjanssens> that's what you need
08:43:52 <tlcoles2> gjanssens: ah, this: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Locale_Settings#GnuCash_2.4.0_or_newer_2 thanks!
08:44:32 <tlcoles2> gjanssens: where LANG=de US ?
08:44:46 <tlcoles2> gjanssens: where LANG=EN US ?
08:45:13 <fell> LANG=en_US.utf8
08:45:50 <gjanssens> yep
08:45:56 <fell> Or does the charset not work on windows, gjanssens?
08:46:26 * gjanssens is checking...
08:47:11 <warlord> IIRC no need for the .utf8 part
08:48:01 <gjanssens> ...but it works either way
08:48:08 <gjanssens> (verified)
08:54:54 <fell> Warlord: But I watched non lating writing users (hindi, chinese, ...) having sometimes font issues on windows.
08:55:33 <warlord> fell, that's certainly possible..
09:01:09 <tlcoles2> gjanssens: for other who may ask: I opened the file in Notepad++. I could edit it but not save it. I had to open Notepad++ *as administrator* to *then* edit and save the file, changing the locale and removing the comments. Now it works just fine in the language I want
09:01:39 <tlcoles2> gjanssens: thanks again for the assistance!
09:01:49 <warlord> glad it's working, tlcoles2
09:03:49 <gjanssens> thanks for the update tlcoles2
09:04:33 <gjanssens> I am natively working on linux, so I always forget windows versions more recent than XP require
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09:04:50 <gjanssens> administrator privileges to edit files in the Program Files directory...
09:05:36 <tlcoles2> news to me too, so I had to google for that answer
09:06:05 * fell is updating the page ...
09:06:39 <gjanssens> Fell I already did so :)
09:06:56 <tlcoles2> Awesome, folks. Thanks to you all.
09:07:33 <fell> Why is there no lock then, warlord?
09:07:51 <gjanssens> That was me not warlord
09:07:57 <gjanssens> I was very quick :)
09:08:21 <gjanssens> I only made a one line change
09:09:45 <fell> I assume I opend it before you and made a few previews. Shouldn't edit/preview lock the page for 30' or was that in another wiki software?
09:11:48 <fell> gjanssens: the older version is also below program files -> admin required.
09:15:35 <gjanssens> fell: tx your changes are more complete
09:19:14 <fell> FYI: At least this instance of mediawiki has no locking, but showed me both versions for review/editing as I tried to store the conflicting version.
09:29:40 <warlord> fell: When I upgrade to the new server we'll probably get locking.
09:30:07 <warlord> current code uses 1.15, new code will use 1.21
09:30:21 <warlord> I also plan to enable image upload, but limit it to a few "known" users.
09:32:28 <fell> You could start with admins. Then we will have an upload history etc...
09:33:04 <warlord> yeah.
09:33:11 <warlord> It's on my "todo list"
09:33:24 <warlord> First I need to finish the basic configuration and migration, then I'll enable the newer features.
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12:37:47 <gjanssens> jralls I sometimes notice you're still on irc in the (Belgian) morning
12:37:58 <gjanssens> probably around midnight at your place
12:38:33 <gjanssens> If I send you a note on irc do you still catch that or is that not a good time to talk to you ?
12:39:06 <gjanssens> It's not that I often have much to say at that time
12:39:19 <gjanssens> But I did send a quick thanks a couple of days ago
12:39:26 <gjanssens> I don't know if that reached you or not
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12:47:53 <jralls> Geert, my computer wakes up to do some backups, but I'm sound asleep at that hour.
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12:48:54 <jralls> I did see your thank you note, though, when I started up this morning.
12:49:34 <jralls> Question: It's supposed to work without specifying any options. Did that fail when you tried it?
12:49:49 <jralls> (It being making the Japanese PDF.)
12:50:56 <warlord> jralls: it worked for me on new-code w/o specifying any options
12:52:12 <jralls> Thanks, Derek.
12:56:09 <warlord> you're welcome
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13:11:21 <gjanssens> jralls: I actually never tried without the options
13:11:34 <gjanssens> I wanted to test the fop incantation, which works
13:11:55 <gjanssens> re the time - good to know
13:12:11 <jralls> Ah, OK, and using without the options would have skipped it. Very good, then.
13:12:20 <gjanssens> I won't make too much noise then ;)
13:41:06 <jralls> Derek, I'm working on cleaning up old files that have mistakenly-added commodities with namespace template. The code in gnc_commodity_end_handler() (gnc-commodity-xml-v2.c:250) checks if the commodity is already in the table. If it is, it copies what's in the table then re-fills in what's there and inserts the new commodity into the table, over-writing the old entry. Is that intentional?
13:43:05 <jralls> Actually, no, it doesn't overwrite it because if there's already an entry in the table, gnc_commodity_table_insert() returns without doing anything.
13:51:55 <warlord> I don't recall what the template namespace is being used for
13:53:05 <jralls> I think it's a fake commodity for SX. That's really beside the point, though.
13:54:08 <jralls> The question is, if a file contains two commodity elements with the same namespace and mnemonic, is it OK for the second to silently overwrite the first?
13:54:49 <jralls> I was mistaken about table_insert() returning in the face of a duplicate; that's only for duplicate pointers.
13:58:15 <warlord> Well, there shouldn't be 2 items in the data file with the name namespace/mnemonic.. how could that occur naturally?
14:03:11 <jralls> Dunno, but it's something someone thought necessary to protect against.
14:03:26 <jralls> Sort of.
14:07:20 <jralls> It was andi5 in r17814. The commit message explains how it could occur naturally, and it's not two instances in the file, it's the file and the built-in currencies. The file will override the built-ins.
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14:13:02 <warlord> AHH.. Right, this was to allow the data file to "override" SCU or other fields of the built-in currencies.
14:13:54 <warlord> So there is still only one instance in the data file, but it can "override" a built-in currency.
14:14:06 <jralls> But it also means that a datafile with obsolete currency info will override the update.
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14:16:08 <warlord> I'm trying to imagine what ISO currency obsolence we've seen, other than currency renames, which are processed differently.
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14:16:45 <jralls> How about the new symbol for the Indian Rupee?
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14:25:45 <warlord> The datafile doesn't (or at least shouldn't) store the symbol unless the user specifically changes it from the default..
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14:29:20 <fell> the ISO code must be unique, but there are probably multiple occurences of local symbols, e.g. x$
14:31:07 <fell> Then we have a table for replacements of erronous added ISO codes e.g. NIS instead of ILS, IIRC
14:31:30 <jralls> Frank, we're talking about the contents of the commodity table, which is keyed on mnemonic. The symbol is just "there".
14:31:37 <warlord> Not erronious (at least in NIS/ILS -- it actually changed name)
14:32:09 <fell> In that table wrong is the russian replacement, should be factor 1000.
14:33:17 <fell> I had the thought to generalize the join-EUR table to put it there.
14:34:09 <fell> OK, will see there.
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14:41:00 <fell> warlord an ISO code starting with NI would be emitted by Nicaragua, not Israel.
14:43:17 <fell> but somebody had filed a bug, because in IL internally they used NIS after some devaluation for New Israeli Shekel
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14:48:53 <warlord> fell: Not at all ture
14:48:54 <warlord> true
14:49:15 <warlord> There is no direct relationship between ISO currency symbol and ISO Currency Code.
14:50:24 <fell> The first 2 char are the country code with th exception X for supranational orgs
14:51:48 <fell> That is part of the definition of ISO codes.
14:53:22 <fell> ISO defines no symbols; so $ can mean dollar or peseta
14:54:59 <fell> (both derive frome the old piece of eight)
14:56:12 <warlord> NIS was the "New Israeli Shekel"
14:56:36 <fell> That was an mistake in gnucash.
14:57:50 <warlord> No, it wasn't. NIS was the official designator for a while.
15:05:24 <fell> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152755#c4
15:08:55 <warlord> I still believe that there was a time when the ISO code was NIS, and then it changed back to ILS..
15:09:11 <warlord> There were "two" Shekels for a short period.
15:09:27 <fell> ILR->ILS
15:10:23 <fell> jsed tried to explain it on IRC https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=492417#c0
15:15:16 <warlord> Looks like *I* pointed out that the iso code was ILS ... but this was in 2008.. It was still NIS in 2004..
15:16:59 <fell> It was 1948: ILP, 1980: ILR, 1986: ILS
15:20:16 <fell> Bug 152755 - Currency: ILS should be NIS (New Israeli Shekel) in 2004 was the mistake. Nobody counterchecked it.
16:02:08 <jralls> gjanssens: Geert, are you still here?
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16:18:13 <warlord> It's 10:20pm for gjanssens ... he may be AFK
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17:17:04 <jralls> That's why I asked...
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20:07:12 <BenB> what's the status of SEPA via HCBI in GnuCash?
20:07:34 <BenB> and when will it hit my stable distro (Ubuntu 12.04)?
20:07:59 <BenB> 2 weeks left, and I have no idea how to do it.
20:15:10 <warlord> BenB: it's in 2.6; no clue about DebUntu
20:18:36 <BenB> warlord: well, 2.6 was released just 2 weeks ago.
20:19:10 <BenB> and no sign of any ubuntu LTS packages :-(
20:19:10 <warlord> Your point?
20:19:16 <warlord> We don't control that
20:19:19 <warlord> Contact Ubuntu
20:19:30 <warlord> (or at least the Ubuntu package maintainer)
20:19:48 <BenB> my point is that SEPA-support should have been released 6-12 months ago, and should be in all major distros since 4 months.
20:20:19 <warlord> BenB: well, why haven't you donated your developer cycles to make it so?
20:20:32 <BenB> *everybody* *must* support SEPA in 2 weeks, and gnucash in the largest linux distro shows absolutely no sign of life.
20:20:54 <BenB> warlord: because I already donate dev cycles to other open source projects
20:21:33 <warlord> Sorry, I live in the US.. SEPA doesn't mean anything to me. So "must" is pretty strong.
20:21:43 <BenB> and when something big like this happens, I try to make sure that I've delivered updates to end users long before the problem appears.
20:21:56 <BenB> ok, everybody in the EU
20:22:46 <BenB> I'm just frustrated that I have no clue what to do, because there's no official statement for a path. not even a path existing, as far as I can see.
20:22:48 <warlord> Well, if you were that concerned you could have helped make it happen sooner. It requires resources, and our 3 EU-based dev-cycle-generators all all busy
20:22:57 <warlord> Use 2.6
20:23:14 <BenB> gnucash is not my project. I'm just a user. I take care of my own projects.
20:23:30 <BenB> well, I can't use 2.6, because I can't find any ubuntu precise packages.
20:24:01 <warlord> I know for certain that there is a 2.6 package available somewhere, because I know people are using it. Possibly GetDeb?
20:25:03 <BenB> indeed http://www.getdeb.net/updates/Ubuntu/12.04/
20:25:06 <BenB> thanks!
20:25:18 <BenB> warlord: could you please link to that from your download page?
20:25:23 <BenB> http://gnucash.org/download.phtml#distribution
20:25:36 <BenB> cause I'm sure I won't be the only guy needing this
20:27:55 <warlord> Others have already found it...
20:28:24 <warlord> But feel free to send an email to -devel asking for that change.. (I dont maintain the website)
20:28:30 <BenB> I'm sure that 0.1% of the 2000000 people who need it will have found it :)
20:28:38 <BenB> ok
20:29:12 <warlord> I really doubt there are 2,000,000 users of GnuCash
20:29:19 <warlord> Let alone 2,000,000 Ubuntu users
20:29:38 <BenB> there surely are 2 mill. ubuntu users. a lot more.
20:30:17 <BenB> Linux market share 2%. total market (europe) ~300 mill. Ubuntu market share 40%.
20:30:40 <BenB> that would mean 2,4 mill. ubuntu users in Europe.
20:31:13 <warlord> And how many of those actually use GnuCash?
20:31:30 <BenB> no idea - if anybody knows, then it's you :)(
20:32:13 <BenB> I wish that more people would use it. it's extremely useful and helpful.
20:33:55 <warlord> Not me
20:34:15 <warlord> Thanks, I'm glad you think so. I am sorry about the SEPA delay.
20:34:23 <warlord> It just hasn't been a fire AFAIK...
20:35:01 <BenB> "a fire"?
20:35:13 <BenB> it surely was handled badly from all sides
20:35:23 <BenB> (including regulation, banks etc.)
20:36:15 <BenB> I've added the getdeb repo to my package sources, and there's a new gnucash, but not the corresponding aqbanking and pango package :(
20:42:18 <warlord> I thought AqB had SEPA support for a while?
20:43:11 <BenB> depends on your definition of "a while". I think it's 6 months old. but my distro is 2 years old.
20:43:23 <BenB> (and will still live for another 3 years)
20:44:16 <BenB> either way, compile time and thus package dependencies don't necessarily match the implementation of SEPA
20:45:11 <BenB> in Ubuntu, the normal way to provide third party packages is via PPAs, in this case: https://launchpad.net/~gnucash/+archive/ppa
20:45:18 <BenB> but it's unmaintained since 5 years.
20:45:21 <warlord> That I cannot answer. I've not followed SEPA development, and I don't use any AqB functionality myself.
20:45:55 <BenB> oh? automatic account statement download is for me the whole reason why I use gnucash in the first place.
20:46:15 <BenB> best invention since bank accounts.
20:50:14 <warlord> You completely lose the ability to detect bank errors. You're basically completely trusting the bank
20:50:53 <BenB> the moment the bank makes false statements, I'm gone.
20:51:14 <BenB> have you had that case that the bank makes mistakes? which kind?
20:51:37 <BenB> when I fetch all statements, I manually classify them. at that moment, I verify them.
20:52:28 <BenB> If I'm not sure about a transaction, I try to find out what it was, and write down the result.
20:52:50 <BenB> the download merely saves me the typing (and typos).
20:53:06 <warlord> Yes.
20:53:11 <warlord> I have
20:53:18 <warlord> Often it was a swapped digit
20:53:27 <BenB> seriously?
20:53:32 <BenB> I've never ever had that.
20:53:37 <warlord> Yes, seriously
20:53:48 <BenB> for none of my banks (which are 5 or so)
20:53:51 <warlord> It was like .10 vs .01 or something like that.
20:53:57 <warlord> They did correct it...
20:54:25 <warlord> (I think they might have even corrected it without my telling them -- I don't recall, it was a long long time ago)
20:54:30 <warlord> But yes, it happened to me
20:54:54 <warlord> it can also happen with credit cards; there are stories of servers who "modify" the tip line..
20:55:10 <BenB> maybe US banks do more manual work. here in the EU, everything is electronic, no bank employee touches the transactions (unless you hand in your transaction on paper, which are maybe 0.01%)
20:56:06 <BenB> there are no cheques anymore, it's all wire transfers. which I enter electronically, on the bank's website, or via HBCI (aqbanking).
20:56:24 <BenB> that's why it's so critical that this works in gnucash - it's my ability to pay.
20:58:39 <warlord> I understand.
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