2014-01-12 GnuCash IRC logs
00:06:34 <fell> Yes, 2.6.0 should be recent.
00:08:20 <fell> john, do you know where gnucash files on OSX disappear?
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01:36:50 <john> On a Mac, '"About" and "Preferences" live in the app menu -- the one named after the app, or in our case "Gnucash".
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01:38:12 <dusty_thingy> Hello everybody
01:38:14 <john> I don't know what you mean by "disappear". Account files go wherever you put them. Configuration files go in ~/Library/Application Support/gnucash.
01:40:44 <john> dusty_thingy, did you have a question or are you just being friendly?
01:40:56 <dusty_thingy> both
01:42:43 <john> OK....
01:45:05 <dusty_thingy> i would like to translate, how can i make a new wiki?
01:48:37 <john> What do you mean new wiki? You can create new wiki pages 1 week after you make a userid. A whole new wiki would require Derek (warlord) to set it up.
01:51:14 <dusty_thingy> ohh i see
01:51:14 <dusty_thingy> thanks
01:54:19 <john> The German and Portuguese translations are part of the current wiki, so if you want to make a new translation, you can do the same. See http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/GnuCash as an example.
01:56:51 <fell> dusty_thingy: which language would you like to add?
02:00:15 <dusty_thingy> Spanish
02:02:42 <fell> can you give me the description for the main page like "Sítio Wiki em Português, em andamento."
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02:11:13 <john> Fell: Guess he can't. :-/
02:11:28 <john> Anyway, past my bedtime. G'night.
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02:20:06 <fell> @tell dusty_thingy http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Es/GnuCash is awaiting you.
02:20:06 <gncbot> fell: The operation succeeded.
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07:23:52 <Pavel> Why is the transaction importer for QIF so different from that of QFX? It's asking me to match memos with accounts, rather than trying to reconcile transactions in the QIF with existing transactions.
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09:05:13 <gjanssens> Pavel: from what I've heard the QIF importer is using a different code base than the QFX/OFX importer
09:05:30 <gjanssens> IIRC the QIF importer is older
09:05:58 <gjanssens> There has been an effort to port the QIF importer to the newer code, but this was never completed successfully
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09:10:49 <thomas> hello
09:11:03 <thomas> happy new year to all
09:11:36 <thomas> could someone help me configuring my gnucash for sepa transactions?
09:13:01 <thomas> when selecting "SEPA-Transactio" I get an error message telling me to configure sepa information for my gnucash user using aqhbci-tool4
09:13:30 <thomas> but I get an error message from it:
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09:14:15 <thomas> ~$ aqhbci-tool4 getaccsepa -b 123456 -a 123456789
09:14:15 <thomas> 3:2014/01/12 14-36-56:aqhbci(12551):adminjobs.c: 1852: JobGetAccountSepaInfo not supported, should not happen
09:15:42 <thomas> Then I manually added IBAN and BIC with the aqanking assistant but gnucash insists in executing the aqhbci-tool4 first.
09:16:14 <thomas> what should I do to enable SEPA transactions with gnucash?
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09:27:57 <Pavel> gjanssens: I am tempted to write a Python script to convert QIFs to QFXs. The formats seem simple enough.
09:29:25 <gjanssens> Pavel: I can't comment on whether that's a good idea or not.
09:29:36 <gjanssens> I'm not using the importers myself
09:29:53 <gjanssens> warlord usually can give better advice
09:30:04 <gjanssens> He may chime in later...
09:30:27 <gjanssens> thomas: happy new year to you too
09:31:10 <gjanssens> I'm in the SEPA zone as well but unfortunately can't help you with your aqbanking problem
09:31:23 <gjanssens> My bank is not supported by aqbanking
09:31:44 <gjanssens> If you don't get a response here, you may want to try the gnucash-user mailing list as well
09:32:04 <gjanssens> I know there are several subscribers that are successfully using aqbanking there
09:32:46 <gjanssens> Most likely some of them have SEPA accounts as well
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09:43:57 * gjanssens has to reboot. Back in a minute
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09:48:34 <thomas> @gjanssens: thanks for the reply.
09:48:34 <gncbot> thomas: Error: "gjanssens:" is not a valid command.
09:49:31 <thomas> #gjanssens: but I don't think it's an aqbanking issue.
09:50:12 <thomas> #gjanssens: The point is that gnucash does not recognize the manuam SEPA configuration too.
09:50:22 <LiamH1> My understanding is that the OFX import (via libofx) cannot handle splits/dual entry, but QIF can. So there is still a reason to use QIF import.
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09:52:23 <gjanssens> thomas: (there's no need to use any character before my nick if you want to address me directly)
09:52:34 <gjanssens> the '@' is to send a command to gncbot
09:52:47 <gjanssens> the '#' is to refer to a chat room
09:53:33 <gjanssens> Out of curiosity: what version of GnuCash are you using and on which platform ?
09:53:37 <thomas> no sign to tell which user I'm answering?
09:53:58 <gjanssens> no, just write my nick somewhere on the line
09:54:13 <gjanssens> it will get highlighted in my irc log
09:54:40 <thomas> GnuCash 2.6.0 Version 38a0d33+ build at 2014-01-03
09:54:40 <gjanssens> you could of course start private conversations, but that's not encouraged in most cases
09:55:02 <gjanssens> that may need a prefix or a command, but I never tried that directly
09:55:40 <gjanssens> (my last message was still related to irc, not your aqbanking question)
09:56:09 <thomas> private conversation was not intended, just tried to make it easier to follow a discussion...
09:56:40 <gjanssens> re aqbanking in gnucash: cstim is the one I think knows most about it
09:56:50 <gjanssens> but he's only rarely on irc lately
09:57:01 <gjanssens> that's why I suggested to ask on the mailing list as well
09:57:25 <gjanssens> and you didn't start a private conversation btw
09:57:36 <thomas> gjanssens: so I'll try the mailing list... thanx
09:57:41 <gjanssens> np
09:59:22 <thomas> bye to all
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10:50:52 <fell> gjanssens: One issue with SEPA is some banks use a different server, a higher hbci version, ...
10:52:03 <fell> So they users have to compare their setting with the new requirements of their bank.
10:53:51 <fell> and point them to gnucash-de as only german banks support FinTS/HBCI.
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12:10:47 <Pavel> Well, the script appears to work for the stuff my bank outputs.
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13:03:55 <warlord> Pavel: QIF import existed for a very long time, and is written completely in Scheme (with a C/Gtk UI). When OFX import was added much later (several years!) it was a C++ library. Simultaneously there was an effort to support HBCI, also in C. So there was an effort to create a generic import interface.
13:04:12 <warlord> That's what you see with OFX/QFX, HBCI, and other AqB backends..
13:04:37 <warlord> Unfortunately QIF wasn't ported over, because the implementation was fairly tightly bound to the UI, and frankly nobody wanted to mess with it.
13:05:55 <warlord> There was an effort to re-implement QIF in C, but that turned out to be a lot harder than expected and much LARGER than the scheme implementation well before it was completed.. And then the dev ran out of time to work on it and it languished. I believe at this point it's been removed from the source tree.
13:06:20 <warlord> To port QIF over to the new UI would require re-implementing the importer, which nobody has wanted to do.
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16:42:29 <Pavel> warlord: Thanks for the historical note... That's unfortunate. I do have the beginnings of a QIF -> OFX Python script, which grabs additional information (like bank account number) from a configuration file.
16:56:39 <Pavel> warlord: Maybe I should post it somewhere.
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17:15:19 <Pavel> warlord: While I am at it, a random question/request: is it possible to tweak the weighting the transaction import matcher uses? When I reconcile my credit card purchases, the dollar amount is almost always spot on, but the date is always at least a day or two after the actual transaction date, so I want to give a lot of weight to the dollar amount and less weight to transaction date.
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17:59:02 <john> warlord: Hey, Derek, the 2.4.15 build finished an hour ago, but the setup.exe didn't get copied to builds/win32/releases. Can you hand-copy it so I can put it on SF?
17:59:34 <john> BTW, this happened with 2.4.14, too.
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18:20:54 <quibbit> I am trying to recover my lost financial records after I deleted log files which I thought the tutorial said was safe to do. Once I did that, my file was gone so I retrieved the log files I deleted thinking my records would open, but they didn't. Can someone help me with this? Thx
18:21:45 <john> No backups, eh? How did you delete the log (and apparently .gnucash) files?
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18:38:41 <quibbit> I dragged the log file to the trash and I also deleted through the drop down menu, move to trash. How does one deal with all the file copies that get saved each time gnucash is opened and closed? It's overwhelming, 50 files accumulate just from a few opening and closings.
18:40:58 <john> Yeah, it's two per autosave. If it saves every 5 minutes, they mount pretty quickly. You can increase the autosave interval, but that has its own downside.
18:43:09 <john> By "drop down menu" you mean the context menu, the one that comes up when you control-click, right? Have you looked in Trash (click on the trash can in the dock, select 'open')?
18:43:41 <john> You're looking for a file that ends in .gnucash, as opposed to .gnucash.log.
18:44:35 <quibbit> ?) After a month or two it seems like it would be impossible to use. I am afraid to delete the files the tutorial says you can since I started just with the log files and I lost it.?) Do you think there's a way to recover the lost file?
18:45:33 <john> Like I said, look in the Trash. As long as you haven't emptied it, everything should still be there.
18:46:03 <john> The other place to look would be Time Machine, assuming that you have it turned on.
18:47:22 <quibbit> I didn't empty the trash, but there are no other gnucash files there. I'm not sure what the time machine is, I see a console square.
18:49:10 <john> Time Machine is the automatic backup system on Macs. You enable it in System Preferences. Works best if you get a USB or Firewire drive and point Time Machine there.
18:50:11 <john> Using Finder, go to the folder from which you dragged the gnucash.log files. What's there?
18:52:20 <quibbit> There are still many many files there all gnucash since I gave it it's own folder given all the copies that get saved. It's hard to tell one from the other except for the extension or the date and time
18:53:03 <john> OK, so you have a bunch of files with the extension ".gnucash"?
18:53:43 <john> How many sets of accounts do you have?
18:53:44 <quibbit> yes
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18:54:53 <quibbit> I had one from 2013 which i used to train myself, and i closed the book, but then couldn't find it when i started 2014. So I think just one set of accounts
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18:57:56 <quibbit> I downloaded an updated version of gnucash so when 2013 was gone, I figured it was because i'd downloaded the updated version which was where I had my 2014 files
18:59:05 <john> No, changing versions doesn't change the file names, though if you switched to 2.6 it might not have read the recent file list correctly.
18:59:22 <john> Anyway, start Gnucash and select File>Open.
19:00:27 <quibbit> I had named the different years' files with different names so I figured the newer version of Gnucash didn't support the 2013 file so it was ok because the newer downloaded version was accessing my 2014 accounts fine until i deleted the log files.
19:00:29 <john> Navigate in the file chooser to the folder where the account files are. The one you want either doesn't have any numbers or if it's not there, you want the one with the highest number.
19:01:35 <quibbit> The highest number in terms of kb?
19:02:32 <john> No, the highest number as in date-time string. E.g., foo.gnucash.20140112115526.gnucash would be from 11:55 this morning.
19:04:27 <quibbit> The last date in the sequence is 1 5 2014, but there are 7 files from that date. I don't see the time. The first one I opened still said no file existed...
19:06:25 <john> Look at the filenames, not the dates in the file chooser. The extension has to be .gnucash, not .gnucash.log
19:07:16 <quibbit> I found it!! Thanks, now I'm terrified to use it. Are there any suggestions how I can handle all the files that get saved in gnucash...the older version didn't do that. I will look into the time machine you mention as well to get that turned on if it isn't.
19:10:02 <john> Don't be terrified. Open Gnucash>Preferences and select the General tab. Change the auto-save time interval to something longer than the default 5 minutes, and select "Never" for Retain Log Files. The log files are pretty useless anyway. That will reduce the clutter in the folder.
19:10:32 <john> Did you find the actual file -- the one with no numbers in the name?
19:10:51 <quibbit> Let me see if I can tell
19:11:10 <john> It's printed across the top of the Gnucash window.
19:13:44 <quibbit> It's hard to say because all the files have the exact same name and then it says size so that column shows kg or bytes and the last column shows date modified and that only shows the date or day, but not the numbers as you wrote (although I have seen it in the past as you wrote the numbers) . The file I was able to open says the name of the file as I named
19:14:29 <quibbit> it with the extension .gnucash
19:16:30 <john> OK, then it's good. If it had been one of the backups I was going to have you rename it.
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19:19:15 <quibbit> Is there a way I can rename the file each time I close it so I know which one I want because the date and time are hard to decipher sometimes seeming to display differently so I can't readily see the time. I never know if I am opening the most recent file, but when the files are there it seems to open current whichever one I select?
19:20:12 <john> You can do a File>Save As, but I suspect that you'll make yourself crazy doing that.
19:21:42 <john> GnuCash will always open with the last file you had open, and if you use more than one, it will display the 4 most recent at the bottom of the File menu.
19:22:03 <john> You seldom need to use File>Open unless something goes awry.
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19:23:29 <quibbit> So I will delete log files, change the saving interval to never so I only manually save it when I close and save the file, but that seems like it will still accumulate, just not as quickly. Is that the best way to handle it?
19:27:39 <john> I think it is. You can also clear out the older .gnucash files, but be careful with that.
19:29:07 <john> Note that you can widen the file chooser dialog box so that you can see the whole filename. That makes it much easier to figure out what's going on. Same for Finder. You know about the different ways finder will display the file list, right?
19:30:41 <quibbit> Sort of. Sometimes I can do it and other times it's hard to figure out...let me see real quick if I can at the moment.
19:31:12 <john> Which version of OSX are you using?
19:36:14 <quibbit> Ok I was able to change the time interval and never retain log files. I extended the width so I could better see names of files...so when I see 20140103130840 , I understand the date, then does it go into military time with seconds? OSX 10.9.1
19:37:44 <quibbit> Yes I think I know with finder...I see the view and can change from icons to folder or file names in a list etc..., that's what you mean right
19:38:11 <john> Yes, that's right, both on the date-time string and the Finder views.
19:40:03 <quibbit> Yes, that's helpful to sort through the files, but generally I shouldn't have to worry if I just delete log files and as you said any .gnucash i select regardless will open the most recent file saved?
19:42:23 <john> No, not that last part. If you open one of the files with a date-time string in it, you'll be missing any work you did after that date and time, and your backup file names will start looking like `foo.gnucash.20140103130840.gnucash.20140112164225.gnucash`.
19:43:44 <john> So you want to be careful to only open the one without any numbers in it. If it's lost or damaged and you have to use a backup, immediately use File>Save As to save it as a plain filename.
19:45:28 <john> The good news is that normally GnuCash will just open the last file when it starts up and you don't need to worry about it.
19:45:29 <quibbit> I'm not sure what that string means, but make sure I open the last file saved to have the current work. Oh so that's what the string looks like when you said with numbers in it....I hadn't seen that before...I never knew what I was opening...I would select any .gnucas and open and it seemed to bring me to the current file regardless, maybe I didn't realize
19:49:03 <quibbit> I'll be careful with that. Thank you so much. I am having a mental block for a moment and can't remember how to get to the control panel where I can be sure time machine is turned on....could you jog my memory?
19:50:21 <john> Click the apple at the far left of the menu bar and pick System Preferences, then pick Time Machine. It's in the fourth row on the right side, next to accessibility.
19:51:17 <john> You need to have a separate disk drive to back up to, so unless you already have one, you should wait to try to set up Time Machine.
19:52:30 <quibbit> Oh yes I see it, I have to have my disc drive repaired before I can do that. A flash drive wouldn't be large enough would it?
19:54:17 <john> Depends on what you mean by a flash drive. A thumb wouldn't, but they sell flash drives that are as big as regular disks. They're really expensive, though, and it would be silly to use one for a backup drive.
19:54:49 <john> You can get a regular USB drive for around $75 from Amazon.
19:55:39 <quibbit> Under time machine the off side is white and the on side is gray. I'm assuming then that the white side is what the setting is set to? In this case off is white; (I thought flash means thumb, so no it's a thumb drive)
19:56:16 <quibbit> And that would be big enough to back up all the data stored on my computer?
19:57:56 <john> The white bit is indeed the indicator, so if it's next to "off", then Time Machine is disabled.
19:58:38 <quibbit> Once my disc is repaired, if I haven't gotten a USB drive yet, do I need to do anything to save a back up to the disc OR once time machine is on, does it do it automatically as long as I insert the disc?
19:58:41 <john> No, a thumb is unlikely to be able to back up all of the data stored on your computer.
20:00:18 <john> Um, what disk is repaired? Insert the disk? It won't back up to a DVD...
20:01:10 <quibbit> My DVD drive is broken so I have to take my computer in for repairs in order to put a disk into the computer
20:04:06 <john> OK, no, Time Macine doesn't work with DVDs, just hard disks. You won't be able to use it until you get a USB disk (I have a 300GB one that seems to be big enough for me, but I'm not doing a lot of photo, video, or music work that would fill it up). You can, and should, copy important files to that thumb drive periodically, but that's not automatic like Time Machine.
20:06:35 <quibbit> ok i see. thanks so much. You have been so helpful...Are you one of the developers?
20:07:12 <john> Yes.
20:09:38 <quibbit> It's a fantastic program and your help has been great! Thank you so much!
20:09:58 <john> You're very welcome. Have a good day.
20:10:06 <quibbit> Thanks you too
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21:18:49 <warlord> john: yeah, there appears to be a bug in the 2.4.x builds.. not sure what's up with that.. I'll try to copy it..
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21:52:24 <warlord> john: okay, copying it now... apparently the setup.exe isn't getting put into the output dir..
21:52:29 <warlord> ... and that's why the scp is failing.
21:52:55 <warlord> anyways, exe is on code now.
22:48:40 * warlord also got further configuring the new code VM..
22:49:59 <warlord> Unfortunately there's going to be a lot of configuration that has to happen after data gets moved... My only other option (which I might take anyways) would be to take a snapshot, run through the upgrade process, test it out.. and then re-do the data-copy and upgrade process again once we really migrate.
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23:37:30 <john> warlord: Derek, Thanks, I'll finish the release now.
23:38:23 <john> As for the migration, I'd definitely recommend the double-transfer approach. Rsync is your friend.
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