2013-11-27 GnuCash IRC logs

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04:10:09 <therm> gjanssens: thanks, will try to build 2.5.9
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07:35:24 <mib_tz64ul> hi
07:35:40 <mib_tz64ul> I try to run the testsuite of gnucash and get the following errot
07:36:26 <mib_tz64ul> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7674961
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07:51:25 <mib_tz64ul> do I have to adjust my locals? My current locals are German
07:51:29 <mib_tz64ul> utf-8
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08:02:43 <gjanssens> mib_tz64ul: that looks like a bug to me
08:02:49 <gjanssens> can you please file a bug report for it ?
08:03:08 <gjanssens> Our dev with the most testing experience is not on irc ftm
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09:29:29 <gjanssens> What's the command again to test f::q directly ?
09:29:54 <gjanssens> I'm trying to get more details for bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712278
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09:48:23 <warlord> gjanssens: gnc-fq-dump ?
10:16:45 <gjanssens> warlord: thanks, I have added the suggestion on the bug report
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11:11:46 <joar> Hello, I'm evaluating existing open source accounting projects for fitness as nonprofit accounting software, I'm currently on GnuCash. I have the following question: Can you post draft transactions for later approval?
11:12:10 <joar> It doesn't seem like GnuCash can be used as a collaborative accounting software, is this correct?
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11:41:56 <gjanssens> joar: gnucash has no concept of draft transactions
11:42:17 <gjanssens> I'm not sure what you mean with collaborative accounting
11:42:39 <gjanssens> I do know that gnucash is meant to be used by one person at the time
11:43:03 <gjanssens> Several people could work on the same data, but only one at the time
11:43:17 <gjanssens> there is also no user management inside gnucash
11:43:59 <gjanssens> so if you need privilege separation (such that some tasks can only be done by certain users) gnucash will not be for you
11:44:23 <gjanssens> It's a nice application for personal and small business accounting though :)
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12:58:28 <Raghav> Hello
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13:07:46 <joar> gjanssens: Yes, I've seen it and I like it, but I also acknowledge the limitations, and I see that it's not in scope for the project as it seems.
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13:10:28 <warlord> joar: There are certainly users of gnucash using it for nonprofits
13:10:38 <warlord> you can ask on gnucash-user for guidance if you wish
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13:12:21 <joar> warlord: Yes, acknowledged in http://npoacct.sfconservancy.org/ExistingProjects/GNUCash/#evaluation
13:13:40 <joar> My plan is to make the initial evaluation myself and then ping you guys back to make a sanity check.
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13:18:56 <warlord> joar: okay
13:22:57 <joar> warlord: gjanssens: do you have a demo database that has example entries for invoices, customers, suppliers, whatnot?
13:23:17 <warlord> joar: I dont know of any offhand, sorry.
13:25:14 <joar> oh, you can use postgres?
13:29:23 <joar> do you need any additional dependenices to use postgres as the backend?
13:29:39 <joar> I can only choose 'file' or 'xml' from the open and save as.. dialogs
13:32:01 <warlord> joar: assuming your gnucash was built with DBI support you just need to install the PG DBI DBD driver
13:32:45 <joar> that seems to be a perl package, is that correct?
13:33:24 <joar> warlord: I am using version Version: 1:2.4.13-1ubuntu1
13:33:37 <joar> I'm not sure that's built with DBI support
13:33:47 <warlord> No, its not a perl package
13:34:08 <warlord> Most pre-packaged gnucash packages are built with DBI support
13:34:12 <warlord> What OS/Distro are you using?
13:34:51 <joar> warlord: the version should give you a clue :) it's Ubuntu, 13.10
13:35:10 <warlord> Sorry, missed that.
13:35:37 <warlord> There is definitely a dbi driver for postgres, but I dont know the name
13:35:48 <warlord> I'm fairly sure that your system was built with dbi support
13:36:55 <joar> warlord: could it be any of these? https://gist.github.com/joar/a8b73ba7f12c9adfe9e6
13:37:20 <warlord> (I dont use DebUnuntu so I'm not familiar with the exact package names. On Fedora it's libdbi-dbd-*
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13:40:33 <joar> libdbd-pgsql
13:40:56 <joar> that's the one
13:41:30 <joar> and now I have the option in the save as dialog :)
13:44:31 <warlord> There you go
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13:55:07 <tlvince> warlord: hi, I believe we had a brief discussion on gnucash-user regarding foreign currency invoices (https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2013-October/050807.html). I'm still struggling with this, specifically with question 2 (becomes clearer if you read through the thread). Any advise?
13:55:44 <warlord> Please remind of q2?
13:56:04 <warlord> (I only have 4 minutes until I have a business call)
13:59:26 <tlvince> OK, given an invoice in a foreign currency (home currency: GBP, foreign: HKD), if I press 'pay invoice', transfer the full amount (say 1000 HKD) to a GBP current account, fill in the an FX rate of 1 GBP = 12.54xx, the invoice is paid, but I'm left with ~11K in the red on the HKD accounts receivable
14:01:04 <warlord> tlvince: Dont do that. Pay a GBP invoice to a GBP account; then you can manually transfer that to HKD
14:01:18 <warlord> (via another txn)
14:01:58 <warlord> If they are paying you in GBP then this is the right way. If they are paying you in HKD then you should invoice them in HKD
14:02:00 <tlvince> warlord: does that mean I can't invoice in HKD?
14:02:18 <warlord> You can invoice in HKD
14:02:27 <tlvince> currently, we're invoicing in HKD, and they pay in GBP
14:04:41 <warlord> Umm.... Why?
14:04:56 <warlord> If they are going to pay in GBP then why invoice in HKD?
14:05:13 <tlvince> Contractually, we're bound to HKD invoices
14:06:03 <warlord> okay, so why are thet paying in GBP?
14:06:15 <warlord> Who is setting the exchange rate?
14:07:09 <tlvince> They're paying in GBP because we only have GBP accounts
14:07:16 <tlvince> FX rate is set by the bank
14:07:33 <tlvince> I receive a telegraphic transfer note containing it
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14:07:49 <warlord> well, you need to process it as and HKD payment..
14:07:59 <warlord> then convert it to GBP.
14:08:54 <tlvince> Right, so I should create an asset account in HKD, then manually transfer as GBP?
14:09:22 <warlord> imho that would work best.
14:09:52 <tlvince> Great, thanks.
14:10:20 <tlvince> It seems like this usecase seems strange?
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14:12:49 <warlord> It's an unusual use case...
14:12:51 <tlvince> Why is GNUCash producing ~11k in the red (as per my method above)? (we can talk later if you're busy. Thanks for your help)
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14:13:33 <warlord> Normally you'd be billing a customer in the currency they are going to pay you. Seems weird that you would have to bill someone in a foreign currency but they would pay you in your home currency.
14:13:48 <warlord> Because it's not converting properly.
14:14:07 <warlord> It's treating it all as either HKD or GBP depending on the direction.
14:16:03 <tlvince> I see
14:16:16 <tlvince> I will look into whether we can get it changed
14:24:47 <warlord> ok
14:26:25 <joar> I have evaluated GnuCash at http://npoacct.sfconservancy.org/ExistingProjects/GNUCash/#evaluation. Please take a look at it and correct any mistakes.
14:30:25 <tlvince> joar: Seems like a nice summary and comparison of different accounting software. Which are you leaning towards using?
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14:40:56 <joar> tlvince: We're leaning towards developing a double-entry API.
14:41:12 <joar> It might use ledger as the backend.
14:41:20 <joar> nothing definite yet.
14:42:14 <joar> the API could be used be used as a library by other applications, or you could build another layer, such as production or invoicing on top of that API.
14:42:38 <joar> this due to the often complex and specialized nature of "accounting"/ERP software.
14:43:48 <tlvince> joar: that'd be great. I've tried Ledger before and as a developer, I can see the attraction, but it's just too bare bones for everyday use for me. I can see it being a powerful engine for a web frontend or something
14:44:46 <joar> tlvince: yes. I think the ambition would be to create a compatible set of applications that can be mixed, matched, replaced, customized.
14:47:01 <warlord> joar: I last looked at ledger over a decade ago, and it's lack of usability is why I chose GnuCash and wrote GnuCash's business features.
14:47:44 <warlord> joar: unless you have a large development pool already existing waiting for your code I think you overestimate the population of people eager, capable, and willing to help you with that.
14:48:11 <joar> ledger isn't very user-friendly. It's more of a structured language and interpreter of its own.
14:48:50 <joar> warlord: That might be so.
14:51:19 <warlord> Actually, I'm thinking "sql-ledger", a web-based accounting application. "ledger", the command line, is newer and AFAIK didn't exist back then.
14:51:34 <warlord> And IMHO it's *ALL* about being user friendly.
14:52:16 <joar> sql-ledger has a fork called LedgerSMB due to contributing controvercy.
14:53:17 <joar> warlord: re: user-friendly: oh, I was just making it all up then ;)
14:54:20 <joar> When I think about it ledger-cli is actually one of the most comprehensible accounting projects I've found to this point.
14:54:33 <warlord> joar: My point is that if a solution isn't user friendly then you're not going to get as many users using it..
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14:55:36 <warlord> (maybe that's a good thing? ;)
14:56:02 <joar> The bit about ledger-cli that makes me think it could be unfriendly towards users is if the users don't like editing text files and running command line commands. Personally I use ledger-cli.
15:00:55 <tlvince> joar: agreed, I also switched to GnuCash for the integration and invoicing features. It can be done with ledger-cli, but relies on "programming your finances"
15:01:15 <joar> would it be possible to work together on the same ledger using a remote PG database?
15:01:30 <joar> tlvince: Yes, I like the programming part :)
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15:32:08 <warlord> joar: yes, but only one person can be using the database at a time.
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