2013-11-23 GnuCash IRC logs
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04:23:11 <snarf> let's say i buy 10000 widgets, for $1 each, for a total of $10000
04:23:19 <snarf> is there a way to enter the transaction in as $1 * 10000 somehow?
04:23:47 <snarf> last time i asked this question, i was advised to look at the docs for "stocks"
04:25:42 <snarf> but when i read the tutorial section on "Investments" it seems i have to make a special investment account to enter a price and a buy
04:26:14 <snarf> but in my case, i wouldn't be making an investment, but an expense
04:26:23 <snarf> so i'm kind of lost on how to do this
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06:16:51 <snarf> i've reconciled a bunch of transactions
06:17:00 <snarf> is there a way to undo that?
06:18:04 <snarf> when i try to modify a reconciled transaction i get a warning that "You are about to change a reconciled split. Doing so might make future reconciliation difficult"
06:18:25 <snarf> i'd rather just unreconcile it all, if i can
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08:50:34 <gjanssens> snarf: the business features allow you to create bills/invoices
08:50:59 <gjanssens> invoice entries will let you enter quantity and price per unit
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08:51:25 <gjanssens> It depends on what you want to use gnucash for whether this is helpful or not
08:52:01 <gjanssens> regarding reconciled transactions: once you have edited the reconciled transaction, it will unreconcile
08:52:23 <gjanssens> there is no option to explicitly unreconcile
08:52:37 <gjanssens> that would be against the purpose of reconciliation
08:53:10 <gjanssens> if you need to unreconcile, you are probably using gnucash incorrectly
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09:17:04 <warlord> raeburn: That wont work because the beginning balance doesn't look at any dates, so you can only reconcile forward, not backwards. HOWEVER, you could do what you suggest and just re-reconcile to your most recent reconcile at the same balance and just include the new early transactions. But it wouldn't be a "zero ending" reconcile.
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12:25:16 <fell> warlord: there is a problem with trac.
12:28:33 <fell> OperationalError: database is locked
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12:50:41 <fell> OK, trac is back.
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12:59:39 <warlord> fell: it might've been doing something?
13:00:19 <fell> I got the message a few minutes.
13:00:54 <fell> I had no problem with the other services.
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13:06:39 <warlord> trac has its own (sql) database.
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13:40:40 <snarf> let's say i get a paycheck today, and the paystub shows that all sorts of taxes were taken out: federal, state, social security, etc...
13:41:12 <snarf> i don't deposit the paycheck until a few days later... or maybe a week later
13:41:37 <snarf> should i record all the taxes being taken out when i deposit the check?
13:41:44 <snarf> or when i receive the check?
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14:20:41 <fell> snarf: you could do on the first day the full transaction with the check amount to assets:short term:gotten checks and later move it to your bank account.
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14:46:42 <snarf> fell, ah, ok
14:46:43 <snarf> great
14:46:47 <snarf> thank you
14:49:18 <snarf> another question:
14:49:34 <snarf> let's say i buy 10000 widgets, for $1 each, for a total of $10000
14:49:41 <snarf> is there a way to enter the transaction in as $1 * 10000 somehow?
14:49:51 <snarf> last time i asked this question, i was advised to look at the docs for "stocks"
14:50:06 <snarf> but when i read the tutorial section on "Investments" it seems i have to make a special investment account to enter a price and a buy
14:50:12 <snarf> but in my case, i wouldn't be making an investment, but an expense
14:50:24 <snarf> so i'm kind of lost on how to do this with a regular expense account
14:53:13 <warlord> snarf: are you going to re-sell the widgets?
14:53:23 <warlord> If so, then it *is* an investment (asset) and not an expense.
14:53:32 <snarf> no
14:53:33 <warlord> If not, then why do you care that you bought them at $1 ea?
14:53:35 <snarf> i don't have a business
14:53:48 <warlord> But the $1 in the description
14:53:52 <snarf> i'm just a consumer with a regular job that pay a salary
14:54:10 <warlord> Then why do you care that you bought 10000 widgets at $1 ea?
14:56:01 <snarf> well, because i later want to take a look at my expenses and see that i've spent $X on "widgets", instead of seeing separate transactions: "10000 widgets", "2000 widgets", "3 widgets", "235 widgets", etc
14:56:59 <snarf> also, i like being able to tab-complete on "widgets"
14:57:21 <snarf> instead of typing it from scratch every time, because the completion will otherwise be for a specific number of widgets
14:58:12 <warlord> snarf: You're missing the point; gnucash is going to account for $10000 for widgets, regardless of whether you buy 10000@$1 or 1000@$10. Why do you care about the difference?
14:59:15 <snarf> let's say i make 3 separate transactions, spaced a few days apart
14:59:28 <snarf> on the first day, i buy 10000 widgets for $1 each
15:00:04 <snarf> so for that transaction the description is "10000 widgets at $1 each", and the amount will be $10000
15:00:23 <snarf> a few days later i buy 25 widgets for $1 each
15:00:43 <snarf> and the description for that is "25 widgets for $1 each", and the mount is $25
15:01:14 <snarf> now, for the third transaction, i'd first like gnucash to autocomplete when i type the word "widgets", but it won't
15:01:29 <snarf> because the descriptions were for specific numbers of widgets, not for the word "widgets"
15:01:39 <warlord> Correct
15:01:46 <snarf> so that's one problem
15:02:06 <warlord> If you want to autocomplete on the description then make the description "widgets"
15:02:07 <snarf> which wouldn't exist if i could just type "widgets" for the description and a quantity in another column
15:02:14 <warlord> or "widgets 10000@$1"
15:02:25 <warlord> But why do you care how many widgets you're buying?
15:02:32 <snarf> if i did just "widgets", there wouldn't be a record of how many i bought or at what price
15:02:40 <warlord> So?
15:02:49 <snarf> but i want to keep track of that
15:02:53 <warlord> You're not reselling them, so why do you care?
15:02:57 <warlord> why?
15:03:02 <snarf> maybe i'll be interested to know how much did i pay for widgets a year ago?
15:03:03 <warlord> What exactly are you trying to record here?
15:03:09 <warlord> why?
15:03:10 <snarf> am i paying more for them now or less?
15:03:31 <warlord> Why does it matter if you're buying extremely variable quantity.
15:03:37 <warlord> Let's take a real world example
15:03:40 <warlord> Auto Gas.
15:03:47 <warlord> I fill the tank regularly.
15:03:48 <snarf> i could do price change graphs on the history and decide whether to wait to buy more of them or not
15:04:06 <warlord> I don't record the price-per-gallon or #gallons because it's mostly irrelevant.
15:04:07 <snarf> there's something like that for amazon.com prices on camelcamelcamel.com, i think
15:04:19 <snarf> hmm
15:04:30 <warlord> Each time I know I'm putting in approximately the same amount of gas, so I can see the general trend of gas prices over time just by looking at the individual total transactions.
15:04:47 <snarf> but if you don't fill up for the same amount?
15:05:05 <snarf> a tank of gas is pretty much constant capacity, so you probably do fill up for abut the same each time
15:05:13 <warlord> Again, it doesn't matter... Fill ups are between 14-18 gallons.
15:05:20 <warlord> Right.
15:05:23 <snarf> but i buy some things regularly that i don't buy in the same quantities
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15:05:31 <snarf> and the prices could be different
15:05:35 <warlord> If there is a transaction way out of the range I can ignore it.
15:05:40 <snarf> and i could buy from different stores
15:05:50 <snarf> so i'm interested in keeping track of where i got something cheaper
15:05:52 <snarf> for example
15:06:14 <snarf> maybe a year from now i'll need to buy something like that again and then i could look and see what price i paid for it back then
15:06:15 <warlord> If it's a true expense then you shouldn't care -- you're consuming it.. So lets use Eggs as an example.
15:06:49 <warlord> Well, you could record the qty in the action column, or in the split memo, or even in the txn notes field.
15:07:02 <warlord> No need to record the price, too... price = amount/qty
15:07:22 <snarf> yeah, but i don't necessarily want to manually calculate it myself
15:07:26 <snarf> that's what computers are for :P
15:07:45 <snarf> or at least i could enter it manually and have a record instead of needing to recalculate it again by hand
15:07:53 <snarf> when i look back at it
15:08:09 <snarf> but, yeah, i could record it in some notes field
15:08:20 <snarf> but then i'd miss out on the inherent ability of the program to check the math
15:08:34 <warlord> Expenses are in currencies, not Qty.
15:08:41 <warlord> Unless you want to go through the Vendor Bill process.
15:09:04 <warlord> You're putting yourself in the 5% of what gnucash just wont do.
15:09:09 <warlord> Sorry.
15:09:12 <snarf> that's ok
15:09:17 <snarf> i can see it won't do it
15:09:31 <snarf> but just wanted to explain why i felt the need for a feature like that
15:09:35 <snarf> i think it'd be useful for me
15:09:53 <snarf> but, yeah, if i can't/won't do it... nothing i can do except roll up my sleeves and code the feature myself :)
15:09:57 <snarf> maybe one day.. :)
15:10:27 <warlord> Or just change the way you're entering the data.
15:10:45 <snarf> yeah, i'll probably just use the action column as a note
15:11:31 <snarf> it won't give me the match checking bit that i'd ideally like.. but it's better than nothing
15:11:43 <snarf> at least it'll let me auto-complete on just "widgets" alone
15:12:34 <warlord> Or you could do 'widgets 10000@$1" and then typing widgets would autocomplete to the most recently entered one.
15:12:55 <snarf> yes, but i might be buying 3 widgets that time
15:12:56 <warlord> (it would quickfill first, which you can accept to autocomplete, then go back and adjust)
15:13:10 <snarf> yeah, i'd need to adjust manually
15:13:13 <warlord> Yes, so you shift-tab to go back and adjust it.
15:13:18 <warlord> You'd have to do that anyways..
15:13:20 <snarf> which isn't a big deal for a handful of transactions
15:13:47 <snarf> no, i wouldn't necessarily need to adjust, because i don't have to tab to accept the full completion of the price i paid for the last set of widgets
15:13:56 <snarf> it could autocomplete on the description and i can arrow to the right
15:14:33 <snarf> and then click in one of the debit/credit columns to fill in the price i paid
15:14:52 <snarf> no adjustment necessary
15:15:07 <snarf> if the autocompletion was just for "widgets" alone, that is
15:16:16 <snarf> another minor issue with using the action column for a note as to the quantity and unit price is that sometimes it happens that i need to return an item and get a refund
15:16:28 <snarf> in that case, i like to put the word "Refund" in the action column
15:16:48 <snarf> but now that would already be full of the quantity and unit price
15:17:14 <snarf> so i guess i'd have to combine the two in that column as "Refund 10000@$1" or something
15:17:17 <warlord> I put "refund" at the end of the description
15:17:46 <snarf> hmm
15:18:29 <snarf> yeah, i could do that.. but... i don't know if gnucash could do that, but ideally i'd like to be able to search for how much i spent on widgets over the past year
15:18:44 <snarf> so i'd like to search for "widgets" and see all the transactions involving them
15:19:03 <snarf> "widgets" as an exact string (ie. "^widgets$" to use a regex)
15:19:30 <snarf> to exclude the cases where the string "widgets" could be a substring of some other string, to avoid ambiguity
15:20:08 <snarf> so "widgets Refund" would not match in that case.. but it would be relevant, and ideally i'd like to pick it up
15:20:13 <snarf> anyway...
15:20:18 <warlord> I dont know offhand if the search will do full string searches
15:20:28 <snarf> it's ok
15:20:29 <warlord> I think it's only substring (or regex)
15:20:36 <snarf> i'm kind of going off on a tangent here
15:20:40 <snarf> it's not hugely important
15:20:41 <warlord> So you COULD use the regex ^widgets$
15:20:53 <warlord> but that wouldn't match your "10000 widgets at $1"
15:20:58 <snarf> exactly
15:21:20 <snarf> and it wouldn't match "widgets Refund" either
15:21:59 <snarf> the whole point is that i'd want it to match "widgets" exactly.. and only "widgets" and not "foowidgets" or any other string that contained "widgets" as a substring
15:22:36 <snarf> if "Refund" and "Quantity" and "Unit price" were all separate columns, i could easily and confidently do this without any problems
15:23:13 <snarf> but they're not.. so my complaint is kind of academic..
15:23:37 <warlord> You could search on multiple strings
15:23:57 <warlord> But then it would be a substring search again.
15:25:03 <snarf> oh, i just remembered another question i had...
15:25:13 <snarf> just to take a 90 degree turn here, if i may...
15:25:27 <snarf> is there a way to unreconcile some transactions?
15:25:52 <snarf> when i try to change a reconciled transaction, gnucash gives me a scary warning
15:25:52 <warlord> Not easily
15:26:24 <warlord> Yeah, well... why are you changing a reconciled transaction? You've already told gnucash "yes, this transaction matches my bank statement"
15:26:45 <snarf> well, maybe i made a mistake
15:26:54 <snarf> maybe i want to word the description in a clearer fashion
15:27:04 <snarf> maybe i want to split the transaction up to provide more detail
15:27:06 <snarf> etc
15:27:21 <warlord> The splitting you can do
15:27:28 <warlord> Changing the description, however, nope.
15:27:48 <warlord> The 'description', technically, is supposed to be to whom you paid, not necessarily what you bought
15:28:08 <warlord> The expense category is more towards the 'what'
15:29:54 <snarf> what would be the not easy way to unreconcile transactions?
15:30:11 <snarf> manually edit the SQL database?
15:31:34 <warlord> That would probably be bad.. I dont know if SQL caches intermediary balances.
15:31:46 <warlord> (never hand-edit gnucash data)
15:31:59 <snarf> hmm
15:32:11 <snarf> ok
15:32:57 <snarf> and when i try to change a description for a reconciled transaction and i get the warning from gnucash telling me that doing this "might make future reconciliations difficult!" what exactly does that mean?
15:33:03 <snarf> difficult in what way?
15:35:01 <snarf> and, another question: would it be possible to export all my transactions and then re-import them in to a new file, but without importing their reconciled status?
15:35:11 <warlord> Any change will cause the transaction to unreconcile
15:35:35 <snarf> oh, so i can do it
15:35:35 <warlord> (which by itself isn't too bad; next time you reconcile the account just re-reconcile that transaction again.)
15:35:49 <warlord> HOWEVER if you change the amount it can cause future issues.
15:35:55 <snarf> ah
15:36:02 <warlord> (not can... will)
15:36:04 <snarf> what kind of issues?
15:36:16 <warlord> Like the warning says
15:36:22 <warlord> your balances will all be off.
15:36:26 <snarf> i see
15:36:47 <snarf> how about the export and import idea?
15:36:49 <warlord> You told gnucash your bank had $123.45 in it... but now gnucash only computes $123.44.
15:36:59 <warlord> which ?
15:37:06 <snarf> would it be possible to export all my transactions and then re-import them in to a new file, but without importing their reconciled status?
15:37:25 <snarf> so ideally i'd start fresh with nothing reconciled at all
15:37:40 <snarf> but i'd still have the record of all my transactions in their proper accounts
15:38:52 <warlord> Ummmmmmm
15:38:53 <snarf> if needed, maybe i could even hand edit the exported data to remove their reconciliation status, even.. if that would help
15:39:00 <snarf> before importing it in to a new file
15:39:06 <warlord> You could try gnucash2qif?
15:39:39 <snarf> hm.... qif, huh?
15:39:49 <snarf> no csv export possilbe? :)
15:40:04 <snarf> don't know if want to dive in to editing some weird binary format...
15:40:18 <warlord> csv sucks
15:40:24 <snarf> true
15:40:25 <warlord> qif isn't binary; its text
15:40:31 <snarf> ah, cool
15:41:01 <snarf> so i guess maybe i could give it a try
15:41:27 <warlord> you could
15:41:31 <snarf> and see if it preserves the reconciliation status of my transactions when they're imported
15:42:30 <warlord> I think it might unless you edit the qif
15:43:48 <snarf> ah... looks like gnucash2qif "converts a GnuCash XML file in to a QIF file"
15:44:07 <snarf> if gnucash is able to export to xml to begin wth, then i don't need to convert it to a qif, do i?
15:44:13 <snarf> i could just edit the xml directly, right?
15:44:34 <snarf> and then import...
15:46:39 <snarf> removing the reconciliation status of a transaction in the xml file should probably be pretty easy... i hope
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15:53:12 <snarf> i'm seeing a " <split:reconciled-state>y</split:reconciled-state>" in my .gnucash files
15:53:31 <snarf> i suppose i could just change that to " <split:reconciled-state>n</split:reconciled-state>"
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15:55:04 <snarf> might need to mess with the "reconcile-info" slots too
15:55:16 <snarf> for the relevant account
15:56:00 <snarf> i'll probably just create a new file with some default accounts and grab their "reconcile-info" slots
15:56:26 <snarf> and replace the ones in my real .gnucash file with those
15:56:42 <snarf> after setting all the transactions to a reconciled-state of n
15:56:55 <snarf> doesn't sound too bad... :)
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