2013-11-22 GnuCash IRC logs

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06:06:14 <mikee-afk> @tell johnsmal Yes, the imports will be in that version.
06:06:14 <gncbot> mikee-afk: The operation succeeded.
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09:00:45 <warlord> fell: I believe that safe_strcmp was removed... I don't see it in the trunk sources anymore.
09:11:27 <fell> Good Morning, warlord!
09:16:42 <fell> Wait, I will run it on a clean checkout again.
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09:39:30 <warlord> Also,what is your build --prefix?
09:40:09 <warlord> (but yeah; running a 'find' on the trunk sources I see no references to 'safe_strcmp' except in the Changelogs.
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10:22:04 <fell> from /home/frank/workspace/gnucash-trunk/build/src/backend/xml/test/test-suite.log:
10:22:47 <fell> '/home/frank/workspace/gnucash-trunk/build/src/backend/xml/test/.libs/test-load-xml2: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib64/libgnc-backend-xml-utils.so.0: undefined symbol: safe_strcmp'
10:23:02 <warlord> Ah, it's pulling in your system libraries.
10:23:08 <warlord> You're not testing your build.
10:23:11 <fell> It is using the wrong library
10:23:19 <warlord> (or, rather, your build is pulling in the wrong libraries)
10:23:30 <warlord> Yep.
10:23:44 <fell> But only there?
10:26:04 <warlord> I'm sure it's doing it elsewhere, too
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10:31:49 <fell_> Oops, the daily Telekom assigns a new IP interrupt.
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10:32:54 <fell> BTW Must I run make check after make install?
10:33:16 <warlord> are you installing into /usr??
10:33:28 <warlord> It sounds like you have a system-installed version of gnucash there.
10:34:36 <fell> No, --prefix=$HOME/test
10:34:59 <warlord> Then how do you have /usr/lib64/libgnc-backend-xml-utils.so.0?
10:35:42 <fell> That is the distro's version, I assume.
10:43:20 <warlord> fell: right, that's what I mean by "system-installed version".
10:43:23 <warlord> It's interfering
10:43:26 <warlord> remove it
10:45:27 <fell> It shouldn't. I am just running distclean and all again. If I get the same result there would be some linker problem.
10:48:13 <warlord> The "linker problem" is that "/usr/lib64" is part of the default load path
10:49:17 <warlord> It has always been a problem. You cannot build gnucash if you have a "system installed" version. That has been the case for a decade.
10:49:26 <warlord> It's also a problem if you use /usr/local (the default --prefix)
10:50:23 <fell> But shouldn't $PREFIX precede in the own build??
10:50:47 <warlord> depends on the linker
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11:30:30 <gjanssens> Fedora doesn't seem to mind
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11:30:55 <warlord> It very much depends on the linker
11:31:08 <gjanssens> I have GnuCash installed in /usr (rpm installed) and my custom installation in /home/janssege/somedir
11:31:38 <gjanssens> linker settings or really linker ?
11:31:49 <gjanssens> I remember we have had bug reports regarding this
11:31:57 <gjanssens> That obviously never got fixed
11:32:21 <gjanssens> fell: what OS are you on again ?
11:33:28 <gjanssens> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=644897
11:33:34 <fell> gjanssens: currently sabayon, a gentoo derivate
11:33:55 <gjanssens> Right. The bug I pasted is gentoo related
11:36:20 <warlord> gjanssens: I'm not sure if it's linker settings or linker per se. I only know it's a persistent issue in many environments.
11:36:34 <gjanssens> What do the gentoo maintainers have to say about this ?
11:37:03 <gjanssens> Hmm, in proper English I probably meant: What do the gentoo maintainers say about this ?
11:37:50 <warlord> gjanssens: both sentences are proper English
11:38:03 <warlord> (and generally imply the same question)
11:40:06 <gjanssens> warlord: thanks for the instruction :)
11:40:20 <gjanssens> I thought the first one had a slightly more negative sound to it
11:40:46 <gjanssens> But perhaps that's because it would in Dutch
11:41:27 <warlord> Yes, it does have a slightly more negative sound to it..
11:41:39 <warlord> It's a bit more acusatory
11:41:47 <warlord> "What do you have to say for yourself?"
11:52:39 <gjanssens> Thanks. And since that was not my intention, I rephrased what I wanted to say
11:52:54 <warlord> :)
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12:19:05 <fell> gjanssens: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371264
12:25:13 <fell> Eventually something like in https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359033#c7 would help.
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12:37:14 <gjanssens> fell: that bug seems to suggest that the order in which our libraries are added to LD_FLAGS matters on Gentoo
12:37:39 <gjanssens> Don't have time to look into this further for now... sorry
12:37:48 <gjanssens> But I'm curious anyway
12:38:11 <gjanssens> One day I'll compare linker output from a Fedora build with that of Gentoo
12:38:22 <gjanssens> To see if it's an option thing or not
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14:07:43 <fell> In build/src/backend/xml/Makefile libgnc-backend-xml-utils.la has no full path as the other libraries.
14:13:14 <fell> Same in src/backend/xml/Makefile.am
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14:37:56 <warlord> fell: Hmm, that should get fixed; it should use the relative path to the lib in the build tree.
14:39:52 <fell> warlord: OK, I will try it.
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15:34:52 <Styx> Hello
15:35:59 <Styx> I am currently trying to customize an scm report, but I can't find a way to get the current date (today's date).
15:36:43 <Styx> I tried to use gnc:get-today but it seems not to work as it always returns 12/31/1969
15:36:59 <Styx> What should be the correct way to get today's date ? :)
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15:37:39 <Styx> (gnucash v 2.4.13)
15:41:48 <Styx> anybody around ?
15:42:16 <warlord> Styx: Hmm..
15:42:30 <warlord> It should work..
15:42:43 <Styx> that's what I thought too :)
15:43:17 <warlord> It's used in the code elsewhere...
15:44:02 <Styx> that's how I used it
15:44:05 <Styx> (set! sdate (gnc-print-date gnc:get-today))
15:44:06 <warlord> Can you display the output you get from that API? It should be a cons cell with current time and 0
15:44:24 <warlord> You're missing a set of parens..
15:44:37 <warlord> (set! sdate (gnc-print-date (gnc:get-today)))
15:44:59 <warlord> You need to call gnc:get-today as a procedure, not pass it in as a symbol
15:45:03 <warlord> that's why the print isn't working
15:45:20 <Styx> you're right ... now it works
15:45:31 <warlord> :)
15:45:44 <Styx> thanks a lot ! I can't believe I did not pay attention to that
15:46:01 <warlord> Easy enough to miss
15:46:43 <Styx> thanks again !
15:46:59 <warlord> NP
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16:04:45 <rhizome> Hi all. When I pay an invoice and give a discount, I attribute it to Expenses:Discounts as a split, but the balance doesn't balance. Should I be entering the full amout for the check and also adding in the discount as an expense? Right now I'm splitting actual payment and attributing the remainder to Discounts
16:09:40 <warlord> rhizome: you should Process Payment for the full (pre-discount) amount and then you can split the transaction between the Checking and Expense:Discount accounts
16:10:34 <rhizome> so, for each invoice payment, there will be three entries? one for the full amount, one for the partial, and one for the discount?
16:10:52 <rhizome> (in the split)
16:11:39 <warlord> Yes. The full amount to A/R, the partial to Checking, the Discount to Expense.
16:12:29 <warlord> Once you Process Payment make sure never to change the amount in the A/R account.
16:12:29 <rhizome> ahhh, that makes sense. i'll give it a try, thanks
16:12:50 <rhizome> hmm, i may have done that before. pay the full amount, then change it in the split.
16:13:20 <rhizome> i would then get "Imbalance:Usd" or something like that, which I would change to Expenses:Discounts. I'm not an accountant, obvs.
16:15:29 <warlord> If you're getting the Imbalance that means you're "entering" the transaction before it is complete. Don't hit the enter key, just use tabs and the arrow keys.
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16:38:28 <rhizome> should the payment/splits go in the same Accounts Receivable entry as the invoice? I'm finding the amounts now doubling, and when I've clicked the "pay this invoice" there is a separate entry made, but...
16:41:05 <warlord> I don't understand the question. When you Process Payment it creates a transaction from A/R -> Checking. Change that so it's A/R -> Checking,Expense
16:41:30 <warlord> And yes, the Payment must use the same A/R account as the invoice.. But you should only have 1 A/R account
16:41:36 <warlord> (well, 1 per currency)
16:48:40 <rhizome> lemme take some screen shots
16:50:10 <rhizome> actually i think i can boil the question down to there having to be a (or at least one) entry Type of "P" for every "I"? I was trying to ask if payments should go inside the "I", since there are similar spaces for additional types of whatever.
16:50:37 <rhizome> "Type" as in the column next to the date
16:54:38 <fell> I(nvoice), P(ayment) but you can multiple invoices at once or also one partial.
16:55:14 <fell> ... process ...
16:57:58 <fell> warlord: I got the same result as before. :-(
17:00:41 <rhizome> http://i.imgur.com/67vS7SV.png ...not sure where the Orphan came from, but it illustrates what i'm asking about
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17:04:52 <fell> rhizome: you should switch debit and credit in the payment
17:06:22 <fell> The orphan you can remove with <TAB><DEL>... in that split.
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17:25:12 <rhizome> which is debit/credit? i don't understand what you're describing
17:30:25 <cafesys> hello all. If I want to copy company 1 to another computer what files should I get. Tks
17:35:51 <fell> You put your payment amount in the wrong column. See http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_are_debits_and_credits.3F
17:37:18 <fell> Your second question is handled in http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#GnuCash_Files_and_managing_a_GnuCash_installation
17:38:48 <fell> Oops, the first was from rhizome and the second from cafesys, sorry.
17:44:55 <rhizome> oh, are you saying that the AR line should be in the "Payment" column, and the payment I received and the discount should go in the "Invoice" column?
17:44:58 <warlord> rhizome: the orphan comes from removing the account on a split and then committing the txn
17:45:18 <warlord> rhizome: Are you using "process payment?"
17:45:33 <rhizome> i have before, but now i'm just trying to straighten things out by hand
17:45:51 <warlord> cafesys: your datafile, whatever you called it. (company1.gnucash?)
17:46:07 <warlord> rhizome: don't enter payment transactions by hand. Start with Process Payment..
17:46:46 <warlord> Then edit the transaction, expand the splits, change the amount on the Checking line to the reduced amount, tab off the line, then add the Expense transfer account
17:46:53 <warlord> (to the newly created line)
17:47:11 <warlord> Make sure you edit the amount in the Checking split and not the A/R split.
17:47:55 <rhizome> ok, i think my later practice has been to do that, because the AR balance does decrease after I make those entries. should i just delete the old ones and re-enter for those invoices?
17:48:01 <rhizome> re-pay
17:48:09 <warlord> Yes
17:48:16 <warlord> that's the easiest
17:48:19 <warlord> sorry, gotta run
17:48:27 <rhizome> ok, thanks for all your help!
17:55:47 <fell> john: wiki links are case sensitive.
17:56:19 <fell> GnuCash!=Gnucash
18:00:27 <cafesys> copying files: I did just that. the reason for the questions id that in computer A everything works great. In computer B we have blank pages when asking for any report. If I doble click any account I can see all its transactions
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18:02:38 <cafesys> Funny thing is that in computer B we made a fresh installation and no reports. We reinstalled after cleaning all things GnuCash and open a trial account, no reports either.
18:02:43 <john> Frank, which one did I mess up?
18:03:14 <fell> John: The second in FAQ.
18:03:20 <fell> fixed
18:03:51 <john> Heh. Right before I started pasting. I trust you fixed it.
18:05:09 <fell> Good work you have done today.
18:06:31 <fell> I am thinking about sorting the Contribute chapters by required level of knowledge from everybody to programmer.
18:07:13 <fell> cafesys: Both have the same OS? Which?
18:08:20 <cafesys> Windows 7 same version and dist
18:09:21 <fell> did you customize your reports?
18:10:21 <cafesys> no, we are pretty new around here and our accounting is pretty basic. Bank-expense, bank-income. Simple
18:10:42 <fell> you saw also http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_do_I_backup_my_GC_environment.2C_including_preferences.3F
18:11:13 <cafesys> what brought us to Gnu was its simplicity and the immediate results
18:11:19 <fell> and http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_I_moved.2Frenamed_my_data_file_and_my_reports_disappeared._How_do_I_get_them_back.3F
18:12:02 <cafesys> no, let me check. the third one is quite hard for us to read but we will try
18:12:33 <fell> ~ means your home directory
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18:13:06 <fell> C:\\Users\<Your login name>
18:14:25 <cafesys> thanks, no, we did not go that far. Again the odd thing is that in comp b, a fresh start and all it does not show reports.
18:16:13 <cafesys> we did not copy user application data, just the xxxx.gnucash file. Backup works fine we risk a little and uninstal the first computer, reinst and restore and all went pretty well.
18:18:36 <cafesys> we have to little time to play around and has not been able to try on a thir computer, same grand, OS and all
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18:45:18 <rhizome> is there a way to get to an invoice from the AR tab? i only know how to use business > customer > find invoice...
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19:34:17 <rhizome> nm, i'm ok with that. but...how do i mark two invoices paid at once, i.e. with a single payment/check?
19:58:10 <warlord> fell: cafesys' issue is probably the "no default browser" windows issue
19:59:20 <warlord> rhizome: you cannot get from AR to an invoice. GnuCash can pay multiple invoices, but it will pay them in fifo order. I.e., if you have invoices 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, you can select any of them to be paid first, but any overpayment would then get applied to #1
19:59:26 <warlord> ... then #2, then #3
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20:31:12 <rhizome> yeah, i kind of limped around that problem for other reasons. for invoices i just left the company invoice list open. i was having to redo a year's worth, so standard techniques didn't seem to fit too well.
20:31:24 <rhizome> all done now, so now i can do things normally.
20:38:10 <raeburn> warlord: how does reconciling set things in stone? working off an assumption that the balances at the start and end of the reconciliation period will never change (which I may be able to fix with balance-adjustment transactions whenever I add historical data predating the reconciliation period), or is there more to it?
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21:02:17 <warlord> raeburn: more to it. reconciliation is always "from the beginning of time to the reconcile date". And changing a reconciled transaction will break the reconciled balance.
21:02:29 <warlord> You cannot retroactively reconcile
21:10:04 <raeburn> Hmm… I wouldn't expect a reconciled transaction to change (or if it would be changed, that would be something to flag as a likely error); just adding new "old" transactions… e.g., my opening balance was $800 for December 2012, but I add transactions spending $200 in November 2012 and now my opening balance should read $600 and the start of November 2012.
21:10:48 <raeburn> And then I reconcile from the beginning of time to the end of November 2012.
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21:21:07 <raeburn> Maybe I'm coming at this wrong? I want to collect my data (past, current, and ongoing) on my spending patterns in one place for analysis. And some of the data is currently most conveniently available in qfx files. And I'd want at least some of the import-handling and reconciliation features. But maybe gnucash isn't the right tool to use?
21:24:02 <raeburn> It seems like the right thing for my current and future transactions, but maybe I need to do something else with my historical data, and figure out what info I need to export from gnucash to see trends in my spending etc.
21:24:59 <warlord> raeburn: but you need to change the (reconciled) O-B $800 txn to do what you're saying, thereby changing the reconciliation history
21:25:10 <warlord> There is nothing special about an O-B
21:25:15 <warlord> it's just a regular txn
21:25:59 <warlord> raeburn: maybe... yes.
21:26:00 <raeburn> Ah, so it's considered part of the data reconciled, not part of the state of the account before the reconciliation period, in some sense?
21:26:20 <warlord> yes, once you reconcile the txn the O-B is considered part of the reconciled data.
21:28:49 <warlord> er, once you reconcile the acct..
21:36:41 <raeburn> Okay, so, next idea :-) … add the November 2012 transactions (spending $200) and a $600 November O-B transaction, plus a bogus -$800 transaction that says "the December O-B isn't really valid any more", and require it to reconcile to zero (as of immediately before the December O-B transaction)? And, second part, some scripted tool that finds the -$800 transaction and the December $800 O-B transaction… if both have been reconciled,
21:42:43 <raeburn> (I wouldn't expect it to actually be quite that easy… transactions from other sources may show charges a day or more off from the bank statement dates, and I wouldn't be surprised if that messes with my ugly scheme. And it would be ugly to do manually, but if a straightforward scheme can work, perhaps it can be programmed and the ugliness hidden away…)
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