2013-11-20 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:42:43 <johnsmal> Is mikee-afk already online for an answer about the import plugin?
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05:51:35 <mikee> Hi johnsmal
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05:52:27 <mikee> I've only tested this on Linux. AS far as I know the tutorial is correct.
05:52:45 <mikee> I know nothing about macs though.
05:54:58 <mikee> Ah wait, it's not in 2.4.13, only in 2.5.
05:59:15 <mikee> You're referring to the docs in SVN. The docs for the current release don't have that.
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06:14:18 <johnsmal> Is the solution updating to 2.5?
06:17:13 <mikee> Yes, but be aware 2.5 is a development version. should be no problems though.
06:17:36 <mikee> Compiling on a Mac is mystery to though.
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06:36:40 <gjanssens> mikee: so even if enabled at configure time you still explicitly have to load the gnucash module ?
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06:46:43 <mikee> gjanssens: Yep. I've no idea how to make modules available by default.
06:48:33 <mikee> There's no need to eable anything at compile time
06:50:19 <gjanssens> mikee: I thought the module was only build if a configure option was set
06:50:40 <gjanssens> Probably thought so because the source is in src/optional
06:50:47 <gjanssens> Or is that even a wrong assumption ?
06:51:13 <gjanssens> Anyway, to get your module loaded by default if available
06:51:29 <gjanssens> you add it to the list of known modules in src/bin/gnucash-bin.c
06:51:38 <gjanssens> (somewhere around line 600)
06:52:27 <mikee> Ah! I suppose though that they should be moved from the src/modules dir?
06:52:33 <mikee> To somewhere.
06:53:42 <mikee> modules/plugins/
06:54:39 <mikee> Both of my plugins in are in there.
06:59:46 <mikee> Is there any doc. for the modules syntax. Specifically FALSE/TRUE
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07:22:23 <gjanssens> mikee: now that I looked at the sources, I finally see your modules live in src/plugins instead of src/optional
07:23:20 <gjanssens> I'm not sure what should go where
07:23:35 <gjanssens> Perhaps something we should look into once gnucash 2.6 is out
07:23:53 <gjanssens> But regardless, for loading your module you don't have to move anything
07:24:12 <gjanssens> The module loading code doesn't look at the source location, but at the install location
07:24:28 <gjanssens> Even though your modules are in a separate subdirectory,
07:24:56 <gjanssens> they are installed with all the other modules in <prefix>/lib(64)/gnucash/
07:25:08 <gjanssens> And that's where the module loading code looks
07:25:57 <gjanssens> I don't know if there is documentation, I learned this by reading the code
07:26:22 <gjanssens> The FALSE/TRUE flag is whether or not your module is optional
07:26:34 <mikee> Ah, thanks.
07:26:43 <gjanssens> This is only important is the module wasn't found at runtime
07:26:55 <gjanssens> a mandatory module will generate a warning
07:27:06 <gjanssens> an optional module only an informal message
07:27:25 <mikee> OK
07:28:40 <gjanssens> NP
07:29:08 <mikee> I'm not sure how much user testing these modules have had. I was never sure about their utilty, but since I see requests for their function I guess they should be loaded by default.
07:30:49 <mikee> I gues since they actuall *break* anything then they should be loaded by default anyway to allow more user testing.
07:31:17 <mikee> Unless people read the docs then they won't know they exist.
07:31:41 <mikee> so they'll never get tested.
07:32:49 <mikee> Later they should be in src/import-export I guess.
07:35:15 <gjanssens> I tend to agree with you
07:35:39 <gjanssens> The plugins have been in the source for a while (way before feature freeze)
07:35:57 <gjanssens> So I'd make them available by default
07:36:21 <gjanssens> Especially since they don't interfere with normal program usage
07:37:24 <gjanssens> I quickly checked the release notes. The plugins aren't mentioned in there.
07:38:16 <mikee> OK. I'll modify gnucash-bin and make sure nothing breaks.
07:38:48 <mikee> Theyve been in for a while. The invoice importer is in 2.4
07:39:05 <gjanssens> Moving the plugins to src/import will be difficult though
07:39:19 <gjanssens> they depend on business/business-gnome
07:39:27 <gjanssens> which gets built after import-export
07:39:34 <gjanssens> But that can be handled later
07:40:04 <gjanssens> Moving the business-gnome bits into the rest of gnome/gnome-utils was one of my itches anyway
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07:40:30 <gjanssens> This gives me even more incentive to eventually really finish that up :)
07:44:02 <mikee> Release note for 2.4.1 only efers to python invoice import script Documenation, No mention of the plugins though. I guess many users don't RTFM.
07:45:53 <warlord> Few users RTFM on their own
07:46:55 <mikee> So I notice from the users mailing list. :(
08:04:39 <mikee> I should backport the changes to 2.4 for bills & invoice importer too I guess.
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08:08:26 <gjanssens> mikee: not necessarily
08:08:46 <gjanssens> You can think of the availability in 2.4 as a tech preview
08:08:56 <gjanssens> only available when manually enabled
08:20:23 <warlord> Yeah, I wouldn't bother backporting changes to 2.4
08:23:22 <mikee> OK. I've updated gnucash-bin.c and the concepts guide for 2.5.
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08:30:07 <gjanssens> Yay ! Another nice user visible feature for 2.6
08:33:30 <mikee> :)
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10:14:43 <gjanssens> Hmm, it's been a while since our last string freeze, so my memory is failing me:
10:15:08 <gjanssens> What should happen with the string fix patches Aurimas posed on the list ?
10:15:26 <gjanssens> Are those valid string freeze exceptions and can they be committed anyway ?
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10:23:22 <warlord> gjanssens: you might want to ask cstim
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10:35:40 <gjanssens> warlord: probably. I'll bring it up on the devel list
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11:21:18 <johnsmal> 'Compiling on a Mac is mystery to though', says mikee. I found a precompiled for the Mac on the home page of gnucash,org. Will installing of http://downloads.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/gnucash/unstable/gnucash-Intel-2.5.8-1.dmg not help? I hope so. Batch input of the basic databases (deptors and creditors, employees) and batch output of invoices will help people to migrate.
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11:42:20 <johnsmal> I have modified invoice.scm to get a default layout for the invoice of my Foundation. It is a difficult and tricky job and the result is still very poor. Is XML-output with all relevant data not an elegant option. That makes a logic distinction between content (in Gnucash) and presentation (in textprocessor). I convert the content of my websites into programs, posters, leaflets via Formatting Objects, but even Micro$oft's Word can merge
11:44:20 <warlord> johnsmal: well, the output is HTML, which is a subset of XML.
11:45:17 <warlord> You could use something like e-guile to create an XML-generating report (instead of HTML), but GnuCash isn't really designed to do that; it's designed the view the result.
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12:20:43 <johnsmal> HTML and XML are both subsets of SGML, but the HTML-output of Gnucash is transformed and not reversible; the stylesheet is included. You are probably a child of the WYSIWYG generation. For a view of the content of an invoice I prefer the layout of the relevant tab in Main Menu. My customers I will present a sophisticated piece of paper.
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13:03:40 <warlord> johnsmal: Like I said, use e-guile.. it doesn't use the gnucash stylesheets. And no, I am not a child of the WYSIWYG generation, but thanks.
13:04:05 <warlord> It will let you generate whatever you want.
13:04:28 <warlord> (although gnucash will still attempt to display it using the HTML rendering engine; that's just the way Gnucash is designed)
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15:58:41 <johnsmal> So, I have to be a equile programmer? I was looking for a frontend solution.
16:07:56 <johnsmal> In the current version you cannot set your own default template. The workaround is complicated and each time a lot of work. And even, when you modify the .scm file, the result remains poor. Seems to me no selling point. Sorry to say.
16:16:54 <gjanssens> johnsmal: nobody is selling here :)
16:17:37 <gjanssens> Gnucash has a lot of reports (feature wise), but was never strong in the presentation department
16:18:10 <gjanssens> GnuCash 2.4 was the first major release in which we even *could* use css style sheets
16:18:30 <gjanssens> Before that, only html attributes could be used to layout the reports
16:18:49 <gjanssens> But even though GnuCash now can use real style sheets
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16:19:12 <gjanssens> nobody so far has stepped up to modify to reports to actually do so
16:19:29 <gjanssens> The few eguile reports we have were a small first step in that direction
16:19:34 <gjanssens> But it never got finished
16:19:46 <gjanssens> That's just the current state of affairs
16:20:01 <gjanssens> And we always welcome improvements
16:20:07 <noizeuk> Hello
16:20:49 <noizeuk> I posed a question in here last night, however I had to leave. I'll try my best to ask it again.
16:23:23 <noizeuk> I am new to GnuCash and I'm attempting to log all my account activity with every transaction I have obtained from my Banks online files (all supported are available). I have imported the transactions, however the currently cleared balance is incorrect. There are also a lot of transactions in the Imbalance account which I can not auto-clear. This is because it crashes as soon as I click it. Does anyone have a solution to this?
16:24:26 <noizeuk> All transactions on the bank account are cleared. Does this mean they need to be reconciled straight away?
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16:35:33 <kpreid> noizeuk: you should be able to specify accounts during the import process, so nothing ends up in Imbalance accounts, and that will make future imports match better. Clicking clear should not crash, regardless of the account -- that seems a bug worth reporting if it's consistent.
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16:41:23 <noizeuk> I have imported each account, labeled them and placed them in current and liabilities etc. The files contain data from all accounts in one file. Could this be part of the problem?
16:42:38 <noizeuk> I have imported these accounts when prompted, so GnuCash is aware of the accounts held within the files (sage 50 file format)
16:42:53 <kpreid> I don't do importing myself, so I don't have the facts to hand, sorry. Though I thought I heard that there should be one asset/liability account per imported file, but that might be in reference to QIF files specifically.
16:43:09 <noizeuk> The "clear" option I am using is "auto-clear" which just straight up crashes
16:43:24 <kpreid> the matching is for matching which _income/expense_ accounts the other halves of the transactions go in
16:43:56 <noizeuk> Ok, I shouldn't take too long to download each account. That might allieviate some issues.
16:44:12 <noizeuk> Matching, is this when it recognises a transfer between accounts?
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16:45:22 <kpreid> in gnucash _every_ transaction is a "transfer" between two or more accounts. it's just that often one account is an asset (or liability) account and the other is an income or expense account
16:47:09 <noizeuk> Right, so it's going to need balancing for example, Out of Current Assests into Auto "Petrol" or similar
16:47:58 <kpreid> Right, and the matching is picking out the "petrol" account based on the info in the file
16:48:36 <kpreid> if after an import you have entries in Imbalance then something wasn't done right during the import
16:49:53 <noizeuk> Well if things need to be categorised in order to match, then I would assume that all transactions would be unmatched
16:50:56 <kpreid> you mean, categorized in the file before you import it? no, gnucash can use info from the memo/payee sort of fields as well to auto match, but you also get to pick the account during import
16:51:48 <noizeuk> Ok, It might be the fact im throwing 75k of transactions at the thing in staggered intervals (each file is 1 years worth of transactions)
17:11:41 <noizeuk> It is still showing imbalances on the import. Pretty much each transaction goes there. Thanks for you help
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17:44:32 <warlord> johnsmal: eguile is just "embedded guile". It allows you to create a template (which can be XML or whatever) with embedded guile statements and have another guile hook that sets up your variable state and processes the template. Right now, yes, you need to know guile to implement gnucash reporting.
17:47:44 <warlord> noizeuk: if every transaction is going to imbalance that means you're not telling the importer where they should go.
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20:13:02 <warlord> noizeuk: hey, your thunderbird is spamming the channel. Can you please properly disconnect?
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21:11:23 <warlord> @tell noizeuk hey, your thunderbird is spamming the channel. Can you please properly disconnect?
21:11:23 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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