2013-11-03 GnuCash IRC logs
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11:23:55 <Remi> Hi there
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11:27:10 <Remi> My question is: I would like to make a payment representing a certain porcentage of my income. Lets say 10% How do I do?
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11:54:43 <warlord> Remi: type in: income * 0.1
11:54:57 <warlord> (where you type in your actual income, not the word "income"
11:55:48 <Remi> thanks you!
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12:05:57 <Remi> My intention is to invest 10% of my income in a fund everytime I receive an income. Is there a way to schedule it?
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13:17:43 <tomkerswill> Hi - I was chatting yesterday about an issue where Gnucash crashes, producing a core dump, when I try to save my accounts as an sqlite file. I had previously been using them fine as xml, but wanted to convert to sqlite.
13:17:56 <tomkerswill> The sqlite saving process works fine with a basic set of test accounts, but with my actual accounts, the process fails about 20 seconds after pressing the save button.
13:18:15 <tomkerswill> The sqlite file is created (about 6MB), but empty if loaded into Gnucash.
13:18:41 <tomkerswill> Since writing yesterday, I've been able to open the core dump in lldb, and to do a backtrace on it....
13:19:04 <tomkerswill> Here's the backtrace - I hope that this is the right thing to do: http://mibpaste.com/nyhMKn
13:21:41 <PaulFertser> tomkerswill: i would guess one of your accounts has some "funny" name and gnucash doesn't escape some characters in it.
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13:25:15 <tomkerswill> Ah - thanks Paul --- I hadn't thought of that. I'll have a look and do some renaming, to see if that helps :-)
13:26:13 <tomkerswill> Out of interest, are you getting that from the debug output from the core dump, or just a hunch? I'm not an expert in looking at backtraces, so can't really tell very much from it!
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13:31:50 <PaulFertser> tomkerswill: I see it executes some nonselect command (so probably creating a table or updating it) when writing out the database (save_taxtable), so that's an "educated guess" (given that I'm not familiar with GnuCash code at all, not so educated actually).
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13:38:51 <tomkerswill> Ah, that was a good idea --- sadly the account names aren't it :-( Even after removing any punctuation etc. from account names, problem still occurs. I tested it by exporting the table of accounts to another xml file (without the transactions) and saving that as sqlite - and that works fine...
13:39:16 <tomkerswill> So I guess it perhaps has to do with something in one of the transactions itself... I wonder if there's any way to tell which one it is creating when it fails. Hmmmm
13:39:52 <PaulFertser> tomkerswill: if you built it with debug symbols, you should be able to see the exact sql statement which lead to failure
13:40:08 <tomkerswill> Oh awesome - okay, I'll give that a shot - thanks!
13:40:20 <PaulFertser> in gdb that would be selecting "frame 3" and you'd see the argument list for that function.
13:40:53 <tomkerswill> Okay, great - I'm not an expert in debugging yet, but I'll definitely give that a shot!
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13:41:34 <PaulFertser> tomkerswill: when you're walking frames you can see all the locals declared in that function, so if you need you can print them.
13:41:44 <PaulFertser> Including function arguments
13:42:11 <tomkerswill> Thanks Paul - okay, that sounds good. I'll definitely give that a go...
13:42:24 <PaulFertser> tomkerswill: you can read about debugging with gdb here: http://www.linaro.org/documents/download/a20791990348e58a4fd6b10f724ee7524fc83fda0295a a very nice intro afaict.
13:42:30 <tomkerswill> I'll drop back in once I've built a debug version - hopefully will get to the bottom of it :-)
13:42:55 <tomkerswill> Cool - thanks! Sadly I'm on OSX Mavericks, so I have to use lldb instead - but I think they're quite similar, and so that gdb guide will still be really useful - thanks
13:43:14 <tomkerswill> (or actually, thinking about it, I should probably just fire up a Linux VM instead --- in fact, I'll do that!)
13:43:19 <tomkerswill> Thanks for all the help - will report back later!
13:43:53 <PaulFertser> tomkerswill: welcome and good luck!
13:44:39 <PaulFertser> tomkerswill: building debug version is most probably easy: you might already have it somewhere in src/ directory, many projects build with debug and then strip the extra info while installing.
13:44:58 <PaulFertser> tomkerswill: and if it's not the case, you should just rerun configure with CFLAGS=-g
13:45:18 <PaulFertser> (generic thoughts, not specific to GnuCash, I'm just a novice user of it)
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15:33:20 <warlord> Remi: Sorry, no, there is no way to do that; you will need to manually make the 10% split every time you add income.
15:49:22 <Remi> warlord: thank you.
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16:17:28 <warlord> john: any chance you could quickly check your email and answer nicholas shust about running a "live test"?
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16:21:52 <tomkerswill> Hi - I've had problems saving a Gnucash file as sqlite, which I wrote about earlier today. I just wanted to update everyone: I have found that the Gnucash only crashes when saving, if I choose to save in a different directory to the source file.
16:22:24 <warlord> what do you mean "different directory to the source file"?
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16:32:22 <john> tomkerswill: The crash is from attempting to save the tax table from the business section. Have you customized that at all?
16:34:07 <john> tomkerswill: Since you didn't just paste in the crash report from console, I can't see your paths. How are you building Gnucash & dependencies?
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16:55:50 <tomkerswill> Hi John - yes, I have built a version of Gnucash tonight on a Linux machine, with debugging turned on...
16:56:19 <tomkerswill> ... The problem was --- it didn't crash when I saved it. Or at least, it only crashed if I saved the sqlite file in a different directory from the one that the source xml file was in.
16:56:40 <tomkerswill> If I saved it in the same directory, the app didn't crash --- an I'm now successfully using the sqlite version of my accounts.
16:56:51 <john> tomkerswill: I meant on OSX, but if you can replicate the problem on Linux, that's fine, too.
16:57:37 <tomkerswill> Ah - yes I decided against building it on OSX, because the version of OSX I have doesn’t work with gdb (it uses lldb instead) and I'm not confident I can do the backtrace on lldb.
16:58:12 <tomkerswill> Quick question - if I have customised the tax tables in Gnucash on OSX (which it's definitely possible I've done!!), would that customisation also come across in the xml file and onto my Linux build of Gnucash?
16:58:25 <john> So were you using the Gnucash.app from Sourceforge?
16:58:54 <john> Yes, everything should be saved in XML. It's SQL that has problems where some things don't get saved properly.
16:59:06 <tomkerswill> Yes, that's right - 2.4.13 via Gnucash download page
16:59:22 <tomkerswill> Ah, okay - I was just wondering if that explains why it worked in my Linux build (also 2.4.13, from git)
16:59:55 <tomkerswill> It does still seem to crash in OSX, even when saving in the same directory. But in Linux, it doesn't crash (or, it only crashes if I save in a different directory)
17:00:22 <john> I should elaborate that everything will get saved to SQL in a "save as", it's the incremental saves -- which the XML backend doesn't do -- that sometimes don't happen when they're supposed to on the SQL backend.
17:00:23 <tomkerswill> I'll try and replicate it in Linux and debug it on gdb... Maybe I've hit two different bugs --- one on OSX build (with tax tables) and one on Linux (saving in different directory)
17:00:50 <tomkerswill> Ah right, I see... Okay, intersting stuff
17:01:14 <john> Could be. Crashing because the directory is different is very strange. Are you sure you have write permission there?
17:04:32 <tomkerswill> Damnit!! I can't get it to crash now on Linux, even in a different directory. Sorry - maybe that was a red herring!
17:06:40 <john> Did you get a core from the crash on Linux? You can always feed that to the debugger.
17:07:16 <tomkerswill> Sadly I can't actually make it crash on Linux now. When it did crash before, I didn't have ulimit properly set, so core dumps weren't created :-(
17:07:24 <tomkerswill> I can consistently make it crash, every time, when saving in OSX (even to same directory) and I'm sure I have write access. It creates the file, 6MB in size, then crashes. The file is empty on open.
17:07:58 <tomkerswill> But on Linux, when I do the same thing, with the same source file, I can't make it crash.... Ah well... I'll come back to it and will try again tomorrow.
17:08:27 <tomkerswill> Is the best thing just to come back on IRC tomorrow and report where I've got to? Hopefully I'll get something concrete so I can put in a bug report!
17:10:08 <john> Before you file a bug report, try this: Go to Business>Tax Tables and delete all of them, then try saving-as to SQLite.
17:11:01 <john> If that works, find the tax tables in your (gunzipped) XML file and paste those to pastebin or open a bug report and attach it there.
17:13:15 <tomkerswill> Is this Business>Sales Tax Tables?
17:14:30 <tomkerswill> Weird! Okay, there were two tax tables there, and I deleted both. But the application still crashes on save as sqlite in OSX. It looks like the backtrace is saying the same thing as well
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17:16:15 <john> Interesting. Well, file a bug and paste in the top bit and stack trace from the debug report in Console.
17:16:44 <tomkerswill> Okay - will definitely do that. Thanks so much for all your help with this, John. Looking forward to getting to the bottom of it!
17:17:11 <john> G'night.
17:17:26 <tomkerswill> Good night - thanks!
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17:57:26 <warlord> Hmm, looks like code is slogging through email...
17:57:31 <warlord> 2+ hour delays..
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18:18:06 <Remi> Hi there. I would like to share with you an idea. Maybe it's already an idea known. Lets see.
18:19:19 <Remi> I'm trying to get richer using all I know about finances. One of the best things I've found is about financial planning.
18:21:11 <Remi> I plan my finances on AOO CALC. The problem is that my system is not efficient as I would like.
18:22:26 <Remi> Main reason is that for each entry I make I have to make it at least 3 times. Because I simply don't know enough about CALC and worse about programming...
18:24:34 <Remi> When I found Gnucash, I thought it could have helped me but unfortunately, as far as I know it's very easy to schedule it based on a financial plan.
18:25:40 <Remi> So my question is: Do you know somebody that would be interested in making a more evolved version of gnucash involving financial planning.
18:26:58 <warlord> Remi: I'm not sure I understand your issue.. What do you mean by "schedule .. based on a financial plan"?
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18:30:56 <Remi> warlord: Well for example each time you have an income appart a certain percentage for saving, for investing, for budgeting. Then reusing interests for investing when upper than a certain value and so on.
18:32:26 <warlord> I still don't understand.. When you input your income you need to split it out appropriately. If your salary doesn't change then you can just duplicate the previous transaction, so no work... If your salary DOES change then you need to edit it anyways (because your tax withholdings will change), so you still have to edit it..
18:32:49 <warlord> So I don't see what kind of automation you're looking for; your "separating" is just one more split that you can add.
18:33:21 <john> Sorry to break in. Derek, I have to re-tag the release. It's not clear to me from last time that if I use the same tag name (2.5.7) over that the windows build-bot is smart enough to realize that it needs to re-run the build. Is it?
18:33:57 <warlord> John, yes, it is smart enough to rebuild is the tag points to a new commit.
18:35:06 <john> Derek, I think he's talking about adjusting his budget or something to help him discipline himself into allocating all of his extra money into investments.
18:35:21 <john> Re retagging, thanks.
18:37:24 <Remi> warlord: okay... Let me see if I can put it in another way...
18:41:09 <Remi> warlord: one planning principle is to treat money you want to use for investment as an expense. Then the return of investment will make a new income from which you will create another "investment expense" (based on percentage) and so on.
18:43:50 <Remi> When you reach a certain level of income you can change the rules of "investment expenses" (In my own case, I take 25% when my income are less than $27,000; 50% for $27,000 to $55300 and 70% above.
18:45:49 <Remi> So that is the kind of automation I'm looking for. I already do it on CALC. The problem is that on my system input is not as easy as in gnucash
18:50:13 <Remi> As far as I know I didn't find any financial planning software. But I'm sure it would make a big change in everybody's life. I teach this principle to poor people as it's easy to change the percentages.
18:52:49 <warlord> Patches always welcome.. However gnucash has more been about analyzing where you were as opposed to where you are going, so knowing that you spent 20% of your expenses on food -- gee, you should work on cutting that..
18:53:01 <Remi> The main difference with an accounting system is you not only track past events but you prepare the future as you want it and act to make it happen.
18:53:04 <warlord> sorry, i have to run now; I may or may not be online.
18:55:06 <Remi> yes I know this is the past way of accounting. See in the mirror to expect what's will be in front of you...
18:57:59 <Remi> easy to work on cutting food! Very easy! Try to eat real food! It make wonders!
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19:03:43 <EliBro> I'm running GnuCash 2.4.10 on Ubuntu. My datafile is in SQLite format. I recently tried out importing from bank OFX files. There may have been some transactions with text with accented characters - portuguese. Now when I open the file in GnuCash I get all kinds of strange behavior like all accounts have zero balance and no transactions. Any ideas on what to do to remedy the situation? The file still has 4.3 MB size.
19:10:35 <EliBro> A screenshot of what happens when I open the file.
19:10:43 <EliBro> http://imagebin.org/275683
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