2013-10-15 GnuCash IRC logs
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11:19:40 <unbalancedyet> hello. i wanna use today's balance from my bank (100 USD) to start my balance sheet. now i paid health insurance earlier (10USD). how do i enter my bi-yearly health insurance costs without affecting the opening balance (100USD)? I entered an earlier date for my health insurance transaction but it still gets subtracted --> 90USD instead of 100.
11:24:09 <unbalancedyet> anybody? ^^
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11:28:42 <Qlaras> unbalancedyet: In IRC, many folks idle. You should be patient.
11:29:50 <Qlaras> Also it is going to add up all the numbers from what did you pay the $10? According to the software, from nothing. (If you had money in there before that it was paid out of, that should've been added first)
11:31:21 <Qlaras> As far as the software knows, you've only ever had $100, and you spend $10 of that before you put that in.
11:31:31 <Qlaras> s/spend/spent/
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11:37:37 <unbalancedyet> ok
11:37:48 <unbalancedyet> so even if the payment happened prior to the balance sheet date
11:37:49 <warlord> unbalancedyet: I'm not sure I fully understand ... You want to start your accounting "today" but you want to include a transaction that happened "before today"?
11:37:58 <unbalancedyet> i'll need to still add the money prior to the date it was spent?
11:38:09 <unbalancedyet> yes
11:38:16 <unbalancedyet> because my health insurance is always the same amount
11:38:19 <unbalancedyet> twice a year
11:38:23 <unbalancedyet> so i wanna have in there already
11:38:35 <unbalancedyet> like other re-occuring fix costs
11:38:45 <warlord> unbalancedyet: but if it happened before you started accounting then, for all intents and purposes, it didn't happen (or more accurately, doesn't exist)
11:38:59 <unbalancedyet> yes
11:39:05 <unbalancedyet> and yet the knowledge of future payment exists
11:39:13 <warlord> If you want to include it then you need to include it, which means your starting bank balance was 110, not 100.
11:39:16 <unbalancedyet> now how to implement that into gnucash?
11:39:27 <warlord> sure, but the future is the future -- it hasn't happened yet.
11:39:51 <unbalancedyet> that is a limit for accounting - but not for accounting software ;)
11:40:11 <warlord> unbalancedyet: accounting software models the real world.
11:40:18 <unbalancedyet> yes
11:40:22 <unbalancedyet> and the real world is my situation
11:40:35 <Qlaras> By what you entered into the system
11:40:42 <Qlaras> You paid a $10 insurance premium from nothing.
11:40:47 <unbalancedyet> what other options does the system provide me?
11:40:50 <Qlaras> You paid it with money you didn't have.
11:41:00 <unbalancedyet> simply adding the cash beforehand?
11:41:03 <Qlaras> Yes.
11:41:05 <unbalancedyet> actually that does it ^^
11:41:08 <Qlaras> Add it to your 'starting balance'
11:41:09 <warlord> unbalancedyet: It provides you Equity:opening Balance.
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11:41:48 <Qlaras> So if you want to include a $10 payment, and you have $100 after paying that bill, your Opening Balance would be $110, then you pay $10 for insurance.
11:41:52 <warlord> That's how you set your opening balances. It should be the balance of the account(s) when you start. If you are starting today, with $100, then anything that happened before today doesn't get entered.
11:41:59 <Qlaras> ^
11:42:20 <warlord> Right, what Qlaras said.. O-B is $110, minus the $10 insurance payment
11:42:23 <Qlaras> It can't count money that isn't entered, and it adds up only what it knows about.
11:42:26 <warlord> (which would be the first non-O-B txn)
11:42:31 <unbalancedyet> software enables you to do things that you wanna have executed thousands of years from now :)
11:42:54 <warlord> If GnuCash is still around thousands of years from now I would be very surprised.
11:42:56 <Qlaras> Yup, that doesn't mean you have to add a previous entry to have a future entry there later ;-P
11:43:01 <Qlaras> Ditto
11:43:26 <Qlaras> I would hope we've evolved past GNUCash (or we're on GNUCash 4782)
11:43:49 <unbalancedyet> by the way
11:44:02 <unbalancedyet> the solution would simply be an additional menu for this situation
11:44:10 <unbalancedyet> our software is able to do it ;)
11:44:39 <warlord> unbalancedyet: what situation is that? Are you starting your accounting today or are you starting it yesterday? GnuCash does not compute reverse-balances.
11:44:46 <warlord> Then use your software. :-P
11:45:01 <Qlaras> Additional menu to do what?
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11:45:11 <Qlaras> Tell it "add this in, but don't count it towards anything?"
11:45:12 <unbalancedyet> nah i wanna try our open source competition ;)
11:45:27 <Qlaras> "Ignore the rules of accounting"
11:45:41 <unbalancedyet> be ignorant to the endless possibilities of software
11:46:02 <unbalancedyet> it's like saying "you can't write a letter before printing"
11:46:16 <unbalancedyet> it would simply require a new feature
11:46:27 <unbalancedyet> where you can define transactions that will happen!
11:46:31 <unbalancedyet> oh
11:46:34 <unbalancedyet> maybe that's the solution
11:46:40 <Qlaras> Well in this case its a transaction that already happened
11:46:48 <unbalancedyet> i'll try around with the dates
11:46:51 <unbalancedyet> thanks for the input!
11:46:56 <Qlaras> Yes, you can schedule tasks
11:46:58 <unbalancedyet> inputs.
11:47:29 <Qlaras> I'll be mucking with that myself. (I'm just getting started with GNUCash myself, so adding my paycheck which includes automatic payments for insurance, that'll be fun)
11:47:43 <warlord> unbalancedyet: we can definitely set up txns to happen in the future.. Actions -> Scheduled Transactions.
11:47:50 <Qlaras> ^
11:48:05 <warlord> (or you can just post-date them)
11:48:19 <Qlaras> I just started with opening balances of the existing numbers, then anything from before that just isn't tracked as an individual transaction
11:48:27 <warlord> Qlaras: that's easy, it's just a very large split transaction.
11:48:41 <Qlaras> warlord: I figured it would be, just a matter of figuring out what it was called ;-P
11:48:44 <warlord> Qlaras: or if you need to track it then you adjust the O-B
11:49:11 <Qlaras> Naw, anything before I started is just 'lost history' ;-P
11:49:26 <Qlaras> (Outside the scope of GNUCash, anyhow)
11:49:34 <Qlaras> Easier that way
11:50:29 <unbalancedyet> gnucash btw might exist as long as mankind, maybe forked 20times, but still with some gnucash code left ^^
11:51:06 <Qlaras> Seeing as my time-travel device isn't working, I won't be able to make a prediction ;-P
11:51:18 <unbalancedyet> then how do you plan your budget?
11:51:22 <unbalancedyet> ;))
11:51:46 <Qlaras> No, I just can't leap 5,000 years in the future and do a grep of the universe for GNUCash code ;-P
11:51:52 <unbalancedyet> a little book for you
11:52:14 <unbalancedyet> Michio Kaku - Physics of the Future - The Inventions that will transform our lives.
11:52:20 <unbalancedyet> this is a cold blooded scientist
11:52:32 <unbalancedyet> and he begins by saying that he might be wrong about everything ^^
11:53:09 <Qlaras> Hence why I can't say what will or won't exist then ;-P
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11:53:19 <Qlaras> But if it did, it would be a vastly improved version
11:54:03 <unbalancedyet> yea i think it's quite popular
11:58:18 <Qlaras> So what is GNUCash competition for that you're comparing against?
11:58:35 <Qlaras> another Free Software option, or a closed-source product?
11:59:04 <Qlaras> Just curious what its being compared against.
11:59:22 <unbalancedyet> the comparison is not the main goal really
11:59:30 <unbalancedyet> as everybody, i'm an open source enthusiast
11:59:39 <unbalancedyet> our software is closed sourced proprietary
11:59:58 <unbalancedyet> not intended for private use
12:00:18 <unbalancedyet> i guess gnucash is more fit for private use
12:00:33 <unbalancedyet> so far i'm not missing anything and it's all quick access
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12:02:57 <warlord> unbalancedyet: gnucash is like a quicken and/or quickbooks replacement... except it doesn't have hundreds of paid developers working on it full time.
12:03:24 <Qlaras> It has the basics required to handle Accounting Rules, and I haven't dug more than that - but I know there is more there.
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12:13:01 <unbalancedyet> can someone tell me more about this one bug: when you enter any schedule and "ok" it, opening schedule again will show you default settings and not what you've set before. does it just not get loaded correctly or does it not work either?
12:13:21 <unbalancedyet> i set schedule "monthly" for one transaction
12:15:17 <warlord> unbalancedyet: AFAIK it does not remember your "last choice" if you're trying to schedule multiple transactions from the register. If you go to the SX editor you'll see your "monthly" setting.
12:17:06 <unbalancedyet> yes
12:17:11 <unbalancedyet> and i also found the delete option
12:17:16 <unbalancedyet> would be nice if "del" button would work
12:17:25 <unbalancedyet> (with confirmation msgbox)
12:17:52 <unbalancedyet> but really nice features
12:17:57 <unbalancedyet> and good overview
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13:04:57 <warlord> unbalancedyet: you can bind that key if you wish.
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13:15:57 <Qlaras> It being unbound was a 'prevent random nuking of data' I'm going to guess?
13:22:08 <warlord> I dont know why it's not bound.
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13:29:07 <Qlaras> A) skipped B) intentional to make deleting entries more deliberate
13:29:14 <Qlaras> What I can think of anyhow
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16:59:45 <hjh> Hi All, I hope you can help me with an issue with a gnucash file: after the last save, the file won't open anymore. the error I see is: error while processing file <filelocation>/<filename>.
17:00:33 <hjh> The GNUCash version is 2.4.10
17:00:37 <hjh> and on the commandline I see:
17:01:03 <hjh> ((tag book:id) (data 0x21d4740)))
17:01:03 <hjh> (frame-data (nil)))
17:01:03 <hjh> (stack-frame 0x21d4aa0
17:01:03 <hjh> (line 176496) (col 25)
17:01:03 <hjh> (parser 0x21bdb60)
17:01:04 <hjh> (tag gnc:transaction)
17:01:06 <hjh> (data-for-children 0x21e1040)
17:01:08 <hjh> (data-from-children)
17:01:10 <hjh> (frame-data 0x21e1040))
17:01:12 <hjh> (stack-frame 0x2ab4fc0
17:01:14 <hjh> (line 176510) (col 14)
17:01:16 <hjh> (parser 0x21bdb60)
17:01:18 <hjh> (tag trn:splits)
17:01:20 <hjh> (data-for-children 0x2a946b0)
17:01:22 <hjh> (data-from-children)
17:01:24 <hjh> (frame-data (nil)))
17:01:25 <warlord> hjh: STOP!!!
17:01:26 <hjh> (stack-frame 0x2a910a0
17:01:28 <hjh> (line 176511) (col 15)
17:01:30 <hjh> (parser 0x21bdb60)
17:01:30 <warlord> hjh: Use PasteBin!
17:01:32 <hjh> (tag trn:split)
17:01:32 <Qlaras> Pastebin that.
17:01:33 *** hjh was kicked by warlord (warlord)
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17:03:20 <hjh> sorry, pastebin: http://pastebin.com/vnVdkM8v
17:03:38 <warlord> Thanks..
17:03:48 <warlord> Sorry to kick you -- was the only way to get it to stop
17:03:49 <Qlaras> Current version is 2.4.13, I'm not aware of what fixes have come since the version you're using.
17:04:07 <Qlaras> warlord: There isn't, if you're not the sender
17:04:29 <hjh> it's ok, didn't think about pastebin, thanks for the reminder
17:05:59 <warlord> hjh: So what happened? You saved the data, quit, and now it wont re-open? What OS/Distro?
17:06:14 <hjh> The distro is debian Squeeze
17:06:39 <hjh> indeed, I saved, exited, and when I wanted to reopen, I got the error message
17:06:53 <hjh> it is by now quite a large datafile: about 25mb compressed
17:07:49 <Qlaras> Do you have a backup file that isn't corrupted? (I believe it saves those automatically)
17:07:58 <Qlaras> (Hopefully not many changes so you could re-do it?)
17:08:15 <hjh> right and there is the issue indeed: no backup :-(
17:08:27 <Qlaras> Turned off that feature?
17:08:52 <Qlaras> (Its present currently, I just started using it myself so don't know when that feature became available)
17:09:01 <warlord> What do you mean, no backup? You should have a dated backup file..
17:09:07 <hjh> eeerr nope.. I thought you meant an actual backup I made?
17:09:28 <hjh> I have dated log files and .gnucash files
17:09:30 <warlord> Qlaras: forever
17:09:51 <Qlaras> warlord: Long enough ago to not matter?
17:10:25 <hjh> if it is a feature in gnucash: it's not a setting I touched
17:10:29 <warlord> for each dated .gnucash file: cp <dated-file>.gnucash /tmp and then File -> Open it.. Until you find the newest one that works.
17:10:38 <warlord> Qlaras: yeah.. decade+?
17:11:10 <warlord> hjh: can you uncompress and check lines 176511, 176510, and 176496 ?
17:11:30 <hjh> yes
17:11:39 <hjh> <trn:split>
17:11:48 <hjh> <trn:splits>
17:12:10 <hjh> <gnc:transaction version="2.0.0">
17:12:34 <hjh> respectively
17:13:47 <hjh> ok, the .gnucash files look good!
17:13:49 <warlord> Okay, so the parsing appears to be within that <trn:split> section...
17:14:11 <warlord> So.... what did you do between the last backup and the most recent one? (run a diff on the uncompressed versions)
17:17:33 <hjh> http://pastebin.com/Sg9C1T1z
17:17:46 <hjh> ^the dif -urN result
17:18:13 <warlord> Shouldn't need N or r.. You're just diffing 2 files
17:18:49 <warlord> hjh: looks like you added 1 transaction... How did you add it?
17:19:06 <hjh> through the gnu cash interface
17:19:14 <hjh> I made the booking
17:19:44 <Qlaras> You could just re-do that and re-save it.
17:19:48 <warlord> Hmm.. So no non-UTF8 character?
17:20:02 <hjh> what do you mean?
17:20:32 <warlord> Yeah, save off the last dated gnucash to phyad_2007_2.gnucash, File -> Open that, and then re-add the transaction?
17:20:54 <hjh> I can add it through replaying the log I guess
17:20:55 <hjh> ?
17:21:24 <warlord> No, don't replay the log.. Enter it again by hand...
17:21:31 <warlord> (it's only 1 transaction)
17:21:44 <hjh> ok
17:21:47 <hjh> thank you!
17:22:02 <hjh> I didn't realize the .gnucash files were full backups
17:22:06 <Qlaras> Then save it under a different name and try re-opening it
17:22:11 <hjh> :-) clear
17:22:17 <Qlaras> (Just to make sure it was a one-off glitch and not a repeatable bug)
17:22:28 <hjh> thanks a lot for the fast and accurate help!
17:22:39 <hjh> hmm, I've been using this since 2004
17:22:41 <Qlaras> If it is repeatable, I would look into trying the file on a newer version if at all possible.
17:22:47 <hjh> this is the first time ever this went wrong
17:22:56 <hjh> I feel a lot safer knowing this backup system
17:22:57 <Qlaras> 9 years isn't bad at all, I'd say :-D
17:23:05 <hjh> agreed :-)
17:23:31 <hjh> ok, I will try if repeatable or not, but I guess I should be good
17:23:36 <hjh> thanks again!
17:24:02 <Qlaras> Preferences->General->Files shows how often to auto-save
17:24:07 <Qlaras> and how long to retain log files for
17:24:18 <hjh> ok, i will check it out
17:24:30 <Qlaras> Default on current version is every 5 minutes, and keep logs for 30 days.
17:24:44 <Qlaras> (I think, I don't think I changed them on this copy)
17:24:47 <Qlaras> Might be 15 minutes
17:27:47 <hjh> it's 5 mins indeed
17:28:19 <Qlaras> So there you go. I'd still back it up regularly, but that should protect against power outages, file corruption, etc :-D
17:31:58 <hjh> agreed
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19:41:27 <Anton> is there any way to plot specific account of expenses over time?
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20:26:43 <warlord> Anton: there is the Income/Expense Bar Chart.. And there are various Pie Charts...
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