2013-09-15 GnuCash IRC logs
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07:33:46 <YeOldHinnerk> hi
07:36:57 <YeOldHinnerk> I'm currently trying to customize some reports. I have trouble with the "Account Selection" option - selected and unselected hardly look different. Worse, it seems very easy with just one accidental click to unselect the current selection. That is, I want to select many different accounts, some of them well far away in the account tree. When I do this, it very often happens, that i unselect...
07:36:59 <YeOldHinnerk> ...the already selected because of just one misclick. Is there a "best practice" to select accounts in the corresponding report option?
07:38:34 <YeOldHinnerk> Also on reports: Somewhere in the Wiki on custom reports it reads: "...if your gnucash contains Python bindings..." and "...Python bindings have recently been added." However, since both are quite old post, I'm not sure, if the current version has Python bindings. Is there an easy way to check this?
07:38:56 <YeOldHinnerk> And: Where would I have to stick in custom reports I create in scheme?
07:39:17 <YeOldHinnerk> Sorry for these total beginner questions concernin custom reports, but documentation is quite sparse...
07:39:29 <YeOldHinnerk> (my version: 2.4.13=
07:45:58 <PaulFertser> I was discussing Android GNUCash companion app with someone here and we found no good solution to indentifying the accounts to be used as a "source" for transaction.
07:47:12 <PaulFertser> Now I found a partial answer. If one doesn't import the account structure from desktop gnucash (that feature seems quite useless in the end) but uses only top accounts he added himself, the bank id will embed the account name in its title.
07:53:17 <PaulFertser> It doesn't help much because you might be buying food sometimes paying in cash, and sometimes using a card, so you'll have to correct the transactions later after importing manually.
07:55:01 <PaulFertser> YeOldHinnerk: selected and unselected probably depends on your Gtk theme, have you tried customising it?
07:55:17 <YeOldHinnerk> How do I do this?
07:55:27 <YeOldHinnerk> I using Windows 7.
07:55:54 <PaulFertser> YeOldHinnerk: 2.4.13 is fairly recent and it has Python bindings afaict.
07:56:55 <PaulFertser> YeOldHinnerk: no idea, but you can probably duckduckgo it or ask your windows-loving friends. The keyword here is Gtk theme, I guess.
07:57:06 <YeOldHinnerk> I also tried using the Companion. There I had the problem, that the import of the chart of accounts failed - an error message appeared before I could even select a file... :(
08:01:46 <PaulFertser> YeOldHinnerk: I suggest to not bother importing the account structure from the desktop GNUCash.
08:02:00 <YeOldHinnerk> "gtk theme windows" is a terrible search...
08:02:13 <PaulFertser> YeOldHinnerk: the error is likely because you're trying to import the .gnucash file itself, and not the "exported account structure".
08:02:28 <YeOldHinnerk> no, I did the export.
08:02:43 <YeOldHinnerk> but i don't get even a file selection dialogue.
08:02:53 <PaulFertser> YeOldHinnerk: but I suggest to use only top-level accounts in the companion anyway, for the reasons outlined below.
08:02:56 <YeOldHinnerk> or was i supposed to put this in a special place?
08:03:15 <PaulFertser> YeOldHinnerk: if you do not get a file selection dialogue that might mean that your Android device doesn't have any filemanager installed.
08:03:49 <YeOldHinnerk> I have a Galaxy S2 with latest version of Android.
08:04:04 <PaulFertser> YeOldHinnerk: yes, but you need to manually install some additional filebrowser.
08:04:04 <YeOldHinnerk> DO I still need to install an additional filemanager?
08:04:10 <YeOldHinnerk> ok
08:04:11 <PaulFertser> Android is a piece of shit.
08:09:22 <PaulFertser> If you want to open a file in Dalvik you need to say you have the "intent" to open a file and then Android will present the user with a list of apps that can possibly satisfy that "intent" (such as dropbox, filemanager and all the others that support it and are currently installed).
08:10:00 <PaulFertser> YeOldHinnerk: http://superuser.com/questions/124922/installing-gtk-themes-on-windows might be related
08:13:10 <YeOldHinnerk> I'm trying that now...
08:13:37 <PaulFertser> I'm not sure if GNUCash windows binary is built against gtk2 or gtk3 though.
08:14:23 <YeOldHinnerk> we'll see :)
08:14:24 <PaulFertser> No idea here, I'm very glad I do not have to use that strange non-standard OS.
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08:18:11 <YeOldHinnerk> Well, not that I'm a windows fanatic or anything - but seriouly, why would I need this additional level of "gtk" when this should be handled by the os?
08:18:40 <YeOldHinnerk> Stuff like that really deters people (and me) from linux.
08:18:52 <YeOldHinnerk> didn't work by the way.
08:19:05 <YeOldHinnerk> anyway, gotta go. But thank you for helping.
08:19:10 <YeOldHinnerk> cu
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08:24:06 * PaulFertser missed the opportunity to explain what a GUI toolkit is and why it might be needed and why it's not always possible to use native widgets, sigh.
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11:51:04 <jos> Hi guys, sorry for bothering. I'm just about starting my personal finances with gnucash or kmymoney. I'd prefer gnucash for the double accounting.
11:51:18 <jos> However, when setting up , I'm stumbling immediately in a stupid problem.
11:52:54 <jos> I'm importing my bank statements from cvs (via python to QIF). That works, but it turns out that if I do import it twice, the data are twice there as well. While I would have expected some detection of uniqueness , for instance on the 'N'(um) field.
11:53:13 <jos> Can someone guide ? (kmymoney is fine in that respect).
11:53:44 <jos> The reason I'm trying to read double is because in effect my CSV's from the bank can be overlapping somehow.
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12:42:43 <PaulFertser> jos: hi :) Generic importer does matching but so far I've tried it only for OFX, I'd expect QIF to work too. Do you get the "Generic Import" window with the transaction list?
12:43:25 <jos> Thanks Paul. Let me have a look, few moments.
12:44:20 <jos> I have a localized (Dutch) version, but I got a window 'QIF import' (Import QIF files).
12:45:07 <jos> Kind of wizard that lets me select the QIF file.
12:45:21 <jos> And then "Vooruit" (probably "Next" in English)
12:45:34 <jos> And that's what I do, next , next ...
12:46:28 <PaulFertser> FYI if you start it with "LC_MESSAGES=C gnucash" you'll see non-localised version.
12:46:47 <jos> Yes, I know. Should I or is it clear enough ?
12:47:12 <PaulFertser> jos: please lurk here for someone else who've actually used QIF importer. But I can tell you for sure that there's a transaction matcher that works ok.
12:47:42 <jos> Maybe : what's working ok ?
12:48:01 <jos> I noticed that he gives me some kind of review window for matching transactions.
12:48:18 <jos> But I would expect he simply discards the doubles ?
12:53:34 <PaulFertser> jos: yes, review window is the one i'm talking about
12:53:59 <PaulFertser> jos: you need to "train" it a bit so it recognises the target accounts.
12:54:45 <PaulFertser> jos: if you press "R" you "reconcile" the transaction, here it means you basically delete it.
12:55:07 <PaulFertser> jos: gnucash should offer it automatically if the date and price matches.
12:55:10 <PaulFertser> afaik
12:55:32 <jos> I guess I am missing a basic concept, or we are just not understanding each other well.
12:55:37 <jos> I have a CSV from my bank.
12:55:48 <jos> Very simple : date, amount, description.
12:55:54 <jos> Not more in it.
12:56:07 <jos> I convert that to QIF.
12:56:14 <jos> And then I read in that QIF.
12:56:19 <jos> First time : OK.
12:56:37 <jos> (of course the matching with other account still goes nowhere, but so be it for the moment).
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12:56:50 <jos> Then I read it a second time and all transactions are duplicated on the account.
12:56:56 <jos> That's what I wouldn't expect ...
12:57:07 <jos> Independent from anything else.
12:57:19 <PaulFertser> Doesn't the matcher propose to "reconcile" them?
12:58:40 <PaulFertser> (in that generic import window you can choose between 3 options: add, update+reconcile, reconcile)
12:59:19 <jos> Didn't notice, let me have a look. But my QIF is gone for the moment as I'm working on the convertor. Few minutes.
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13:02:16 <PaulFertser> (i'm going to write a similar converter for our stupid local bank too, but will hopefully do it in Haskell ;) )
13:09:27 <jos> I'm using python for the moment.
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13:11:26 <jos> It seems not to do what you describe.
13:11:29 <jos> But ...
13:13:07 <jos> I suddenly notice that my debian squeeze is probably having a rather old version (2.2.9). Is that a potential problem, i.e. was it something fixed 'recently' ? (I'd rather avoid an update 'just to try' because I guess it will involve a compilation and all stuff that goes with it ...)
13:13:52 <PaulFertser> I'm a new user too, so have no idea. 2.4.x here.
13:14:13 <PaulFertser> jos: what does it suggest for the transactions you already have?
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13:14:45 <PaulFertser> jos: does it show green and has "Add" pre-selected?
13:17:18 <jos> NO, but now I see ...
13:17:24 <jos> It's doing the matching.
13:17:31 <jos> But unworkeable for me ...
13:17:57 <jos> You have to go line per line where it gives the matching one, that you have to select then ...
13:20:40 <PaulFertser> The idea is that it should be all "green" and right accounts selected and the transaction automatically pre-selected to be added or reconciled and so you should just review it all and press "ok". In your case it would mean that all transactions should be pre-selected to be "reconciled".
13:31:29 <jos> No, that's not the case.
13:37:20 <PaulFertser> Sorry, I do not know if that's new in 2.4 comparing to 2.2 or not.
13:38:01 <jos> I'll have a try later on. But then I need to go through all compilation etc I guess. Thanks for your help in any case !
13:38:35 <PaulFertser> If it depends on newer gnome libraries you'll have hard time with it...
13:38:50 <jos> That's what I am afraid of indeed ...
13:39:17 <jos> Might be that I have a more recent somewhere in a VM. I'll see later.
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14:15:02 <warlord> PaulFertser: FYI, GnuCash is GTK2.. And the Windows build does not include the Python bindings.
14:16:31 <warlord> PaulFertser: QIF doesn't use the "Generic Importer"
14:17:51 <PaulFertser> warlord: ok, good to know, thank you.
14:18:05 <PaulFertser> warlord: I'll pass that knowledge to the next person asking :)
14:18:31 <PaulFertser> warlord: I'm actually surprised python is used for the API and not Guile.
14:18:42 <warlord> PaulFertser: You're confusing poor jos by talking about the OFX importer, which is completely distinct from QIF.
14:18:56 <warlord> There are Guile bindings, too.
14:19:07 <warlord> There *have* been guile bindings for a very long time.
14:19:19 <warlord> Python is the "new kid"
14:19:42 <jos> O, light on the tunnel ?
14:19:51 <jos> Do you somehow recognize my problem, warlord ?
14:20:03 <warlord> jos: The QIF format does not include a Transaction ID (unlike OFX), so there is no way to know for sure that the same transaction is being imported a second time.
14:20:25 <warlord> jos: yes, your "problem" is that you're importing the same transaction multiple times.
14:20:30 <warlord> Don't do that. :)
14:20:37 <jos> That's a simple and straightforward answer.
14:20:45 <jos> Not that it helps me particularly though.
14:21:01 <jos> I was even making sure the "N" field be different to help recognizing ...
14:21:14 <warlord> ask your bank to only send you the transactions that have been posted since the last time you downloaded.. Or process your CSV prior to converting to QIF
14:21:39 <warlord> There is no guarantee (or requirement) that the 'N' field be unique
14:21:45 <jos> Is the MT940 better therefore ?
14:21:56 <PaulFertser> warlord: I thought I was explicit about "generic importer" and that I only know it's applicable to OFX. It should be trivial to figure out by looking at the source if QIF uses it or not, just I do not have the sources handy and the internet here is slow.
14:22:00 <jos> While I'm converting CSV I can as well convert it to something else.
14:22:21 <warlord> The duplicate detection does a fairly decent job for your case, but it's a LOT of manual effort -- as you see you have to manually go over every duplicate transaction and tell the impoter that it is, indeed, a dup.
14:22:51 <jos> The problem at my end there's no easy way to avoid overlap. My CSV's are last month, or last year or alike.
14:23:09 <PaulFertser> warlord: the wiki and the docs lead me to the conclusion Guile bindings are only good for custom reports, and not as the generic API, and the examples I was able to find made me think adding new transactions from the outside is for Python API only...
14:23:11 <warlord> I don't know about MT940. I know that OFX has a transaction ID that the standard says must be unique (per account). and the importer does automatically eliminate dups.
14:23:31 <warlord> BUT OFX is pretty complicated. You're still much better off just not importing the same txn multiple times.
14:24:11 <warlord> PaulFertser: you were explicit, but jos mentioned QIF so you were talking apples and kumquats and confusing the poor guy..
14:24:44 <warlord> jos: so? in your processor check the date and if date is "before" the last conversion then ignore the line.
14:24:58 <warlord> You're already processing the CSV, so you can do it in your processor.
14:25:11 <warlord> (if you were running 2.4.x you could just import the CSV directly)
14:26:23 <jos> And 2.4 would avoid then duplication at once on the CSV as well ?
14:26:39 <jos> How big is the compilation nightmare on squeeze going to be ?
14:26:57 <PaulFertser> I'll try to do better the next time :)
14:27:03 <warlord> I'm not sure... Probably not, because again there is no guarantee of uniqueness, so you'd still have to manually tell the importer that it's a dup.
14:27:39 <warlord> jos: Sorry, no clue. (I'm not a DebUntu guy)
14:28:21 <warlord> PaulFertser: I'm sure you will..
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15:05:01 <YeOldHinnerk> hi
15:05:14 <YeOldHinnerk> what version of gtk is used by gnucash?
15:21:10 <warlord> 2.x
15:21:34 <warlord> Actual Gtk version depends on the OS, Build, and GnuCash version..
15:21:35 <Ard0nik> YeOldHinnerk: You can find out with something like ldd $(which gnucash) | grep -i gtk.
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15:22:00 <warlord> Ard0nik: that presumes a Unixy system. IIRC YeOldHinnerk is on Windows
15:22:01 <Ard0nik> Which, of course, works for other executables too.
15:22:11 <Ard0nik> Ah.
15:22:32 <Ard0nik> There's probably an equivalent using dumpbin.exe, if you've got the Windows SDK or Visual Studio.
15:22:54 <warlord> Easier would be to look at the windows build script for the particular gnucash version.
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15:26:04 <YeOldHinnerk> well, my goal is to siwtch the theme
15:26:18 <YeOldHinnerk> as you guessed, i use gnucash under windows.
15:26:58 <YeOldHinnerk> i tired earlier today with some gtk 2.0 tools - but it didn't work
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15:37:02 <warlord> Sorry, I have no idea how to change the gtk theme on windows.
15:44:44 <warlord> Some things I believe you can set by editing the .gtkrc-2.0 file (or something like that...) IIRC..
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