2013-01-28 GnuCash IRC logs
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08:35:57 <compywiz> damn there's a ton of join/part spam in here
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08:41:15 <warlord> compywiz: yeah, Topcat is particularly bad about it.
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11:37:39 <gour> 'afternoon
11:39:05 <gour> what is 'correct' way to record transaction of exchanging money from foreign into native currency? just foreign--asset-cash --> native-asset-cash?
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11:45:33 <warlord> gour: generally, yes. Depending on whether you are using trading accounts, and whether it's going back and forth..
11:45:50 <warlord> If you do a back-and-forth then you need to account for any gain/loss in the difference of exchange rate
11:46:12 <gour> warlord: ahh, thanks...i believe for this case simplicity wins ;)
11:46:35 <warlord> Or just don't include the foreign currency if you can avoid it.
11:48:35 <gour> well, it's foreign account which my mother has in Slovenia and she took some cash which i exhcanged here in Croatia, so would like to record it
11:49:02 <warlord> Oh. Hmm.
11:49:15 <warlord> So you're keeping track of her Solevian account normally?
11:52:31 <gour> not yet, but i plan to do it
11:52:53 <warlord> Ok
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12:05:46 <Xentac> so my locale is en_US.UTF-8, but the vast majority of my accounts are in CAD. gnucash likes to make my USD accounts $'s and my CAD accounts CAD even after I told it that my default currency should be CAD. Is there some way I can either make display USD as USD and CAD as $ or just keep USD USD and CAD CAD?
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12:07:56 <warlord> Xentac: You can change your LC_MONETARY to en_CA.UTF-8 to change your default currency to CAD
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12:08:05 <Xentac> ah
12:08:18 <warlord> (the currency symbol is acquired from your locale, so only your locale currency gets a symbol)
12:08:48 <warlord> telling gnucash your default currency is CAD only affects what happens when you create accounts, transactions, etc. But not the symbol.
12:10:03 <Xentac> when I set that I see this error: * 09:08:59 WARN <Gtk> Locale not supported by C library.
12:10:03 <Xentac> Using the fallback 'C' locale.
12:10:11 <Xentac> is there a better name for it?
12:10:23 <Xentac> you know what
12:10:25 <Xentac> that might be me
12:10:38 <Xentac> yeah, that was me
12:10:38 <Xentac> warlord: thanks!
12:10:40 <warlord> Yep, that's you.. ;)
12:10:43 <Xentac> (for future reference, I didn't have the en_CA.UTF-8 locale generated)
12:10:45 <warlord> Right...
12:11:02 <warlord> (you must be on a debian/ubuntu system)
12:11:14 <Xentac> (arch actually)
12:12:44 <warlord> Oh, hmm.. okay.
12:13:08 <gour> i've LC_MONETARY=hr_HR.UTF-8, but GC uses '.' as decimal separator instead, afaik, ',' which is default for Croatia? do i miss something?
12:13:11 <warlord> On Fedora pretty much all the locales are pre-generated, or autogenerated as used because I've never seen that issue with a real locale specification.
12:13:51 <warlord> gour: there is LC_NUMERIC which might affect that.
12:14:14 <gour> let me check it..
12:14:25 <gour> LC_NUMERIC=hr_HR.UTF-8
12:14:55 <gour> HRK is et as default currency
12:15:45 <gour> *set
12:16:59 <warlord> ??
12:18:16 <gour> HRK (Croatian kuna) is set as default currency in GC
12:18:59 <warlord> What's your base locale? If you don't set LC_MONETARY, then it will use that.
12:19:44 <warlord> (and regardless, neither of these settings affect what you have set in GnuCash, and what you have set in GnuCash has no bearing over the decimal character or the locale currency symbol)
12:21:08 <gour> it's mostly Croatian, but with some mix - see http://pastebin.com/G8n8arAq
12:23:48 <warlord> Ah, I see. If the decimal is still backwards that would be a bug in your locale.
12:24:03 <warlord> Contact your distro vendor to report it.
12:25:20 * gour runs Debian Sid :-)
12:25:35 * warlord has no clue what that means
12:25:58 <gour> well, not sure if devs are happy that non-devs use Sid :-)
12:26:11 <gour> any idea how to 'confirm' bug outside of GC?
12:29:20 <warlord> Not offhand.
12:29:43 <warlord> Except... try a different locale like en_UK ....
12:29:53 <warlord> (for the LC_NUMERIC)
12:30:06 <warlord> if that works correctly, then you can show that it's the locale and not the app
12:31:01 <gour> ok
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12:47:04 <gour> warlord: i had to re-gen my locales with en_GB...what's separator for it?
12:47:21 <gour> GC accepts ',' and rejects '.'
12:47:57 <warlord> GB should be 1.000,00 v. en_US which is 1,000.00
12:49:20 <gour> i cannot enter thousand separator, only the decimal one?
12:50:06 <warlord> GnuCash should accept both characters appropriately.
12:50:20 <gour> hmm
12:50:59 * warlord can type in 1,000.00 and it works as you would expect.
12:53:41 <gour> now i get space for thousand separator and comma for as decimal point...
12:54:13 <warlord> Then that's what your locale says...
12:54:25 <warlord> (I might be wrong about en_UK -- Maybe try en_CA?)
12:54:53 <warlord> Still, if your locale isn't working right then the issue is your locale, not gnucash. As you can see gnucash properly honors the locale settings
12:55:51 <gour> now selected 'automatic decimal point' option and now it works with croatian - space as thousand separator and comma as decimal one
13:00:06 <warlord> Ok.
13:01:51 <gour> but the key is to select 'automatic decimal point' option
13:02:44 <warlord> Isn't that the default setting?
13:03:13 <gour> it was not on my instance, but who knows what was default
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16:50:31 <ses1984> i'm a new user trying to use gnucash to manage my personal finances. i'm trying to import some old credit card charges going back through the past year and i'm pretty sure i've done it wrong
16:51:17 <ses1984> i read the tutorial and concepts guide for credit cards and under "entering charges" it says "another way to import a credit statement directly into your account...this type of import is covered in the manual"
16:51:50 <ses1984> i've looked through the manual and i've seen where it covers imports in general but not this type. i tried to figure it out on my own and i think i messed up some accounts
16:52:42 <ses1984> i went to file > import > QIF, and in the wizard selected the file. in the wizard under account name i called it "cc" but i don't see that information anywhere in the transaction log.
16:53:02 <ses1984> in the "match QIF accounts with gnucash accounts" i matched it to the expense account
16:53:46 <ses1984> then in the "match payees/memos to GnuCash accounts" part of the wizrad i selected all the specific sub categories of expenses for each QIF payee/memo
16:54:55 <ses1984> so far i have a bunch of accounts with zero balance and the expense account category with my credit charges, but i don't think i selected the right accounts in the wizard...
16:55:36 <ses1984> if i look at the details of the expense accounts, every time i charged something to my card it shows a cash amount in the rebate column, and whenever i paid my credit card, that shows up in the expense column
16:56:25 <ses1984> things start to make less sense when i look at the "entering payments" documentation in the credit card concepts section. in the docs there, instead of seeing expense and rebate columsn like i see,
16:56:31 <ses1984> the docs show payment and charge columns
16:57:11 <ses1984> the docs are showing the credit card accounts, but i thought the docs suggested to put individual credit card charges in expense accounts
16:58:09 <ses1984> i think i screwed up by entering the credit card history directly into the expense accounts when it was supposed to be entered in the credit card account, with a transfer to the proper expense account?
16:59:01 <ses1984> anyway, that's what i've done so far, and now i'm trying to resolve credit card payments and i'm too confused to continue, also i don't want to get too deep before realizing that i really messed up.
16:59:28 <Xentac> I don't know if I can help you fix your problem, but I might be able to shed a little bit of light
16:59:57 <Xentac> don't think of a particular transaction as being a transfer
17:00:03 <Xentac> it's a debit and a credit to two different accounts
17:00:18 <Xentac> so your credit card account is a liability because you have to pay it off
17:00:23 <Xentac> so when a charge happens
17:00:46 <Xentac> it's a transaction that credits your credit card and debits the expense
17:01:50 <ses1984> i think the way i imported the transactions, when i charged something to my credit card, it credited my expense account, because my expense account is showing as a positive balance
17:02:08 <Xentac> expense accounts do show positive balances
17:02:16 <Xentac> (assuming the type of account is correct)
17:02:48 <Xentac> as long as the type of account is right, most of your accounts should show positive
17:04:16 <Xentac> does your liability:credit card also show a positive balance?
17:05:59 <Xentac> another way to think about it is if you open your credit card account
17:06:10 <Xentac> anything in the Charge column is something you bought
17:06:14 <ses1984> no, so far everything is zero except for the expenses that i have categorized, and my payments which i have left unspecified
17:06:23 <Xentac> and anything in the Payment column is what you paid off on your card
17:06:35 <ses1984> so i see a positive balance in my expenses, and a negative balance in unspecified which represents payments i've made
17:06:45 <ses1984> here's how my expenses look
17:06:47 <ses1984> http://i.imgur.com/LEU3fik.png
17:07:18 <Xentac> yeah, you did that backwards
17:07:29 <ses1984> doh
17:07:33 <Xentac> the vast majority of expenses should show up in the Expense column
17:07:44 <Xentac> Rebate is for those times where you got a refund
17:08:16 <Xentac> ummm...
17:08:23 <Xentac> the Expenses account you're showing me
17:08:28 <Xentac> is that the default top-level one?
17:08:35 <ses1984> yeah
17:08:41 <Xentac> transactions should never go in that
17:08:46 <warlord> ses1984: <ses1984> in the "match QIF accounts with gnucash accounts" i matched it to the expense account --- That's your problem. QIF Accounts generally match to GnuCash Asset/Liability accounts. QIF Categories map to Income/Expense accounts.
17:09:27 <Xentac> yeah, anything you get from your bank will always map to an asset (chequing/savings account) or a liability (credit card)
17:09:37 <ses1984> would you guys mind walking me through an import...i have a file i've downloaded from my credit card company. it's asking for "set the default qif account name." last time I just put "cc" in this screen of the wizard
17:09:50 <warlord> ses1984: That doesn't matter.
17:10:21 <ses1984> ok now it's asking to "match qif accounts with gnucash accounts" and this is when i think last time i selected "expenses" ... but i should have selected liabilities/cc?
17:10:32 <warlord> It assumes file.qif is account 'file. This is only important if you are going to import multiple times, because it will remember that you mapped "file" to e.g. Assets:Bank of America:Checking
17:10:40 <warlord> Yes.
17:10:47 <warlord> Or whatever you want to call it.
17:10:59 <warlord> I use Liabilities:Credit Cards:<CC Name>
17:11:17 <ses1984> ok
17:12:06 <warlord> I recommend you create your Chart of Accounts first, then you have accounts to map the QIF to.
17:12:29 <ses1984> ok
17:13:24 <Xentac> warlord: (I used gnucash a long time ago and have only started using it again because I'm recording expenses for my consulting business) I always found it hard to figure out the right accounts to create
17:13:38 <ses1984> ok, i have skipped the chart of accounts step for now...i'll probably go back and re-do everything once i have this figured out. i think i imported properly now because i have two matching positive balances in expenses and liabilities
17:15:50 <warlord> Xentac: it's all about how much detail you want/need. *technically* you only need 1 expense account and 1 income account. But then you cannot differentiate e.g. groceries from utilities.
17:16:02 <Xentac> exactly
17:16:05 <warlord> Xentac: rule of thumb: if you want to know how much you spent on X, X should have its own account.
17:16:21 <warlord> Xentac: second rule of thumb, it's always easier to combine accounts later than it is to separate accounts later.
17:16:37 <Xentac> but between not knowing how to classify certain things and having a lot of accounts by default it can be a little overwhelming
17:16:37 <warlord> ses1984: sounds right.
17:16:38 <ses1984> one more question about viewing my accounts. from the accounts tab if i click on top level accounts like expenses > entertainment, it does not show transactions in sub-accounts. is that normal? can i view an account and all sub accounts together?
17:16:44 <Xentac> warlord: yeah, those were my experiences previously
17:16:57 <Xentac> I was using gnucash before for personal finance
17:17:00 <warlord> Xentac: what do you mean by "not knowing how to classify something"?
17:17:04 <Xentac> and it got messy and I fell behind
17:17:27 <Xentac> well, like, if I bought a new HD box for my tv... what type of expense is that?
17:17:41 <Xentac> is that Entertainment, because I didn't really have to buy it, or is it Home, because it was for the house?
17:18:36 <ses1984> i would only classify things for the home if it dealt directly with home improvement or repair. if you sell the house, you're not going to leave that box for the next owner, so it's not home
17:18:41 <Xentac> ses1984: right click->Open Subaccounts
17:19:29 <ses1984> ahh i see thanks
17:20:27 <Xentac> warlord: lately I've been trying to figure out how to track business expenses and the income I get from reimbursements, but I think I have that figured out
17:22:46 <warlord> Gotcha..
17:23:10 <ses1984> thanks for the help i think i got the right way to get started now
17:28:23 <warlord> good luck
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18:07:49 <MCMLXV> I'm having trouble scheduleing a monthly deposit, it always resorts back to Daily frequency. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong?
18:09:32 <warlord> 1965: hard to say without knowing exactly what you are doing. But the SX system certainly supports monthly txns
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18:13:53 <warlord> MCMLXV: onbviously that was to you ;)
18:14:09 <warlord> obviously
18:14:15 <MCMLXV> I'm looking at the names of the tabs
18:14:18 <MCMLXV> ok...
18:14:57 <MCMLXV> I'm going into the accounts tab, to the income group, and choosing "create new account"
18:15:23 <MCMLXV> I make the groupe, log a sepost, then select schedule
18:15:24 <warlord> Okay... that creates a new account..
18:15:43 <warlord> I've never created an SX from an existing transaction, but go ahead.
18:15:50 <MCMLXV> I set up the schedule dialog, then cklick of...
18:15:56 <MCMLXV> ok
18:16:15 <MCMLXV> then when I check it again, it is set back to daily
18:16:59 <MCMLXV> I've been trying different things all afternoon... that is just a summary of the steps I've taken
18:19:02 <warlord> Sounds like you're not saving a recurrence..
18:19:10 <warlord> (sorry, gotta go)
18:19:27 <MCMLXV> ok
18:19:29 <MCMLXV> ty
18:19:30 <warlord> If you don't get an answer here I recommend you subscribe to and email to the gnucash-user mailing list
18:19:41 <MCMLXV> ok... thanks
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