2013-01-09 GnuCash IRC logs
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03:47:14 <strk> does anyone here use gnucash for business accounting ?
03:47:29 <strk> (in italy, specifically)
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04:44:41 <GiftdKook> strk, bookkeeping is not accounting (and accounting is not bookkeeping). I work with it for business bookkeeping but not in Italia.
04:45:36 <Neca> strk: me
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09:58:55 <strk> GiftdKook: what's the difference ?
09:59:13 <strk> Neca: do you have automatic tax computation ?
10:00:03 <strk> Neca: like, expenses with IVA automatically splitted etc.
10:05:38 <GiftdKook> Bookkeeping is a recording of transactions. Thus, balancing a checkbook is bookkeeping. Accounting is a /placing/ of transactions. So, deciding whether a check was goes under the account for the X or Y is accounting.
10:05:59 <GiftdKook> strk, ^^ that is a simple distinction.
10:09:03 <GiftdKook> Accounting has more rules than bookkeeping. Accounting can be used for tax efficiency (i.e. paying only those taxes the law requires, as is responsible) or for concealment and even deception (i.e. placing assets or liabilities where they are opaque or impossible for an auditor to find).
10:10:28 <warlord> GiftdKook: I feel that's an arbitrary distinction, and there is not really a fine line between them.. Especially in terms of what Gnucash does.
10:10:51 <GiftdKook> warlord, I have studied both. The distinction is not arbitrary, but
10:11:10 <GiftdKook> for the typical person, they are hard to distinguish.
10:11:34 <GiftdKook> If you work for GE in the accounting department, you are not typical. :)
10:11:50 <warlord> True.
10:12:00 <warlord> but gnucash isn't targetted at GE, either.
10:12:10 <GiftdKook> warlord, my experience makes gnucash confusing. :)
10:12:19 <strk> here's where I come from:
10:12:26 <GiftdKook> i.e. I come at it from the perspective of accounting and finance.
10:12:31 <strk> in 2011 I tried using gnucash to keep track of where family money went
10:12:34 <GiftdKook> warlord, a good point.
10:12:50 <strk> it lasted around 6 months, after which wife was driven crazy and almost threw my computer against a wall
10:12:58 <warlord> GiftdKook: gnucash is targetted at people where bookkeeping == accounting
10:13:11 <strk> that was probably due to the _requirement_ to get all balanced, thus ending up counting even kid wallet
10:13:14 <warlord> strk: why?
10:13:20 <GiftdKook> ah, yeah. Good point.
10:13:22 <warlord> Ahhh...
10:13:30 <strk> now, I don't want to get back to that nightmare, but, I was thinking, I might try to only use for business
10:13:35 <GiftdKook> My experience confuses me more than it helps me with gnucash.
10:14:05 <warlord> strk: dont worry about everything balancing like that.. When you give kid $$ in their wallet, just use Expenses:Kid Wallet, and don't worry about how the kid spends it. Voila. You're in balance.
10:14:09 <strk> the thing is that "business expenses" are likely NOT all coming out of the same bank account
10:14:28 <strk> warlord: yeah, one escape has been using an "unkonwns" expense book
10:14:40 <strk> not book. how was it called... uhm.. "account"
10:14:48 <strk> Expenses.Unknown
10:14:51 <warlord> GiftdKook: Perhaps. You could change to Accounting Labels so it's always "Debit" and "Credit".. And you can turn off the "negative display" gnucash does for "normally negative" accounts...
10:14:59 <strk> yeah, and I've been considering doing "Wife" also as an expense
10:15:08 <GiftdKook> nah. I will just adjust to bookkeeping as need be.
10:15:10 <warlord> strk: it's what I do.
10:15:18 <warlord> Gnucash *is* both...
10:15:21 <strk> but what if "Wife" pays for medical expense, which affects business balance ?
10:15:49 <warlord> it's bookkeeping *and* accounting.. Each transaction *can* be specified into where it goes/what it's for -- as per your definition.
10:15:51 <strk> should I have an Asset.unknown too ? growing as needed ?
10:16:00 <warlord> But yes, it's more simplistic than what some place like GE requires.
10:16:11 <warlord> strk: I don't see why.
10:16:17 <GiftdKook> warlord, how about off-balance sheet accounting? Footnotes?
10:16:33 <warlord> strk: Make a transaction from Expenses:Wife -> Expenses:Medical
10:16:49 <GiftdKook> I suppose I could just set up separate files in gnucash for those, though.
10:16:54 <strk> warlord: oh, neat
10:17:03 <GiftdKook> warlord, I will take your point under consideration.
10:17:04 <warlord> GiftdKook: What do you mean "off-balance sheet accounting"? As for footnotes, there are spaces for notes in every transaction/split.
10:17:37 <strk> by the end of the day/quarter/year I'll then love to have a report of what's due to the state for taxes
10:17:38 <warlord> GiftdKook: but again, gnucash isn't designed for GE. It's designed for users who might otherwise choose Quicken or Quickbooks.
10:17:58 <strk> that'd be the main goal of a future attempt to restart using gnucash
10:18:16 <GiftdKook> yeah. I won't belabor these somewhat esoteric areas of accounting.
10:18:19 <warlord> strk: well, it might not necessarily get you 100% there, but it can help a lot.
10:18:28 <strk> yeah, can be fuzzy
10:18:39 <strk> it did get close to that for VAT in early 2011
10:18:54 <strk> enough to bother my accountant (which I ended up leaving as he didn't like to explain me more)
10:19:13 <strk> but VAT is only one aspect of things, a pretty easy one
10:19:49 <strk> ok, not extremely easy, unless you know how much VAT to discharge on each kind of expense
10:20:07 <warlord> Luckily I dont have to worry about VAT here.
10:20:09 <strk> but then back to the point, could I (for example) make an account that automatically perform splits ?
10:21:00 <GiftdKook> warlord, thanks for this tip, "Make a transaction from Expenses:Wife -> Expenses:Medical".
10:21:11 <GiftdKook> I had not considered bookkeeping as a cascade.
10:21:56 <warlord> No, gnucash does not have that functionality in the register. The only places those kinds of automatic processing will happen is in the biz features (Invoice/Bills). You can, however, enter equations manually in the registers. E.g., you can type: 40.12*0.17 to compute 17% of 40.12
10:22:18 <GiftdKook> neat
10:22:36 <warlord> GiftdKook: Like I said, gnucash is more than bookkeeping.. And this is one place where that's the case.
10:23:22 <strk> warlord: can Invoice/Bills be also used for expense bills ?
10:23:29 * strk never used that feature
10:23:44 <warlord> Invoice == Customer, A/R, Bill == Vendor, A/P
10:24:07 <warlord> er, A/R, Income... A/P, Expense
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10:28:15 <GiftdKook> warlord, can gnucash have notes print with reports?
10:30:47 <warlord> Possibly.. Some reports could add a column to show the Txn Notes or Split Memo fields.
10:30:53 <warlord> (depends on the report)
10:31:25 <warlord> But no, the reports do not have "footnotes" per se -- but you can export the HTML, load it into your favorite editor, and add them there.
10:31:40 <warlord> (and every accountant I know that uses GnuCash says to do it that way)
10:33:37 <GiftdKook> oh, ok. Good to know.
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11:05:21 <gunbunny> I'm new to GNUCash and have a n00b question
11:06:22 <gunbunny> I have an account selected in the Accounts tab. Then I select Reports->A&L->General Ledger and it tells me I have to select an account
11:07:04 <gunbunny> accounting period is set to previous year, report prefs set to use accounting perios
11:07:08 <gunbunny> *period
11:07:48 <warlord> gunbunny: yes, the report doesn't honor the CoA selection. This is expected.
11:08:02 <warlord> Go into the report options to select what you want/need
11:09:59 <gunbunny> bingo, thanks!
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11:49:03 <strk> can account structure be saved for sharing ?
11:50:14 <warlord> strk: Sure, File -> Export Accounts
11:50:22 <warlord> will save you account tree w/o any transactions
11:50:34 <warlord> ...to a new file that you can File -> Open
11:51:23 <strk> Neca: have anything known to be working for ITA personal biz ? :>
11:55:01 <strk> I'm trying LANGUAGE=it_IT.utf8 and it is working, only... templated account names aren't translated, is that just a matter of translating them or there's no support for multilanguage "templates" ?
11:56:51 <warlord> strk: you should have it-localized accounts.
11:57:06 <warlord> ... but it wont change *existing* data files..
11:57:18 <strk> no no, I'm doing a _new_ file, with 2.4.10
11:57:19 <warlord> A data-file is a data-file. The names are set in stone.
11:57:37 <warlord> strk: the File -> New hierarchy should have localized accounts..
11:57:44 <strk> will try to have wife use it (the "simple checkbook")
11:58:36 <warlord> You need to run "File -> New" in the target locale.
11:59:45 <strk> http://strk.keybit.net/tmp/gnucash-screenshot.png
12:00:56 <strk> oh, found
12:01:01 <strk> LANGUAGE=it_IT.utf8 LANG=it_IT.utf8 gnucash
12:01:12 <strk> LANGUAGE translates the menus, LANG translates the account names
12:01:18 <strk> odd, but that's how it is
12:01:26 <strk> warlord: can it be an inconsistency bug ?
12:01:37 <strk> LANG on itself does _not_ translate menu items
12:02:09 <strk> problem is I have both LANG and LANGUAGE defined in the env
12:02:14 <strk> LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en_US:en
12:02:42 <warlord> You must be on Debian/Ubuntu?
12:03:16 <warlord> It's unclear (to me) why you need both, but in some cases you DO need both.
12:03:37 <strk> yep
12:03:42 <strk> ubuntu
12:08:14 <warlord> Thought so. On those systems you need to set both LANG and LANGUAGE and they must be consistent
12:24:35 <strk> uhm, unity makes it hard to _only_ have gnucash in italian :/
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12:42:25 <warlord> strk: change the way you run gnucash.
12:42:33 <warlord> ... so you set LANG/LANGUAGE *just* for gnucash
12:44:57 <strk> yeah, that's what I'm trying to do, only unity makes hackers life harder than should be... oh well
12:45:29 <warlord> run gnucahs from the shell?
12:45:45 <strk> I'm trying to setup wife syste for easy run
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12:48:49 <strk> found: /usr/share/applications, let's try
12:49:05 <warlord> Create a new desktop icon that, instead of running /usr/bin/gnucash, runs /usr/bin/env LANG=.. LANGUAGE=.. /usr/bin/gnucash
12:53:29 <strk> success
12:53:47 <strk> had to drop something in /usr/share/applications,or there was no way to have it in the quick launcher
12:54:08 <strk> next issue: the menus overlap with the notification area
12:54:10 * strk hates unity
12:54:23 <strk> that's with GnuCash 2.2.9, btw Built 2010-08-19 from r17949M
12:55:26 <warlord> Turn off Unity
12:55:32 <warlord> 2.4.11 is current
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