2012-08-22 GnuCash IRC logs

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04:24:53 <mikee> @op fell
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04:25:23 <fell> Good Morning, MikeE!
04:25:42 <mikee> Morning Fell.
04:27:17 <mikee> Still waiting for my computer to crash again.
04:27:31 <mikee> No idea why yet though, seems random.
04:28:49 <fell> My said a few times in the last days: It is to hot for me, shutting down.
04:30:23 <mikee> I wish it were too hot here (Wales). Seems to be just raining, contantly.
04:31:50 <fell> Last night we got the first rain after a week with 30-40°C.
04:32:20 <mikee> It's all falling here :)
04:33:23 <fell> All this poor dogs and cats. ;)
04:34:28 <mikee> lol
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09:24:15 <warlord> mikee: FYI, the docs build is still broken.
09:27:21 <warlord> mikee: maybe the file doesn't exist? (Unfortunately I don't see the build failure logs)
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10:10:13 <mikee> warlord: Ok. I'll look into it again.
10:11:28 <mikee> Ah. Forgot to add the file to svn.
10:14:47 <warlord> That would do it. ;)
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13:04:29 <gour> evening
13:05:35 <gour> two questions in regard to business features...1) when i provide (counselling) service face-to-face for which i'm paid in cash, then i assume there is no reason that money goes to A/R, right?
13:06:20 <warlord> gour: IMHO correct
13:06:28 <warlord> You could just go direct from Income -> Cash
13:06:44 <gour> 2) when we might get paid via the internet when the client orders some service, it is similar, so i'm also not sure whether it classifies for A/R, iow. there are no payment terms involved.
13:06:52 <gour> correct?
13:07:31 <warlord> Probably. If payment is "immediate" then there generally is no need for A/R. A/R is for delayed payment. You do the work day 1, you send an invoice day 2, you get payment day 3.
13:07:35 <gour> the case 2) will be however tracked via separate - e.g. Internet account
13:07:59 <gour> thanks
13:08:48 <warlord> Sure, it would go e.g. Income -> Assets:Paypal
13:09:19 <gour> i also plan to use another (php) web app for creating invoices in cases when i might need to create quote for some service...i assume that quotes are not supposed to be done with GC via some workaround?
13:10:05 <gour> although it involves using another app...
13:10:49 <gour> also, it's easier to tweak look of invoice/quote with that app than fiddling with scheme :-)
13:11:08 * gour is into learning python now...for desktop usage & web needs
13:26:54 <warlord> You could create an invoice w/o posting it
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14:23:25 <gour> warlord: you mean as replacement for quote? can it be printed?
14:23:34 <warlord> It should be able to
14:23:47 <warlord> You might need to go through the Reports menu and then choose it.
14:24:48 <gour> hmm..that sounds good...let me check it...iirc there was some info that invoice cannot be printed if not posted...
14:25:10 <warlord> It can be, but possibly not directly from the "print" button
14:27:32 <gour> http://gnucash.uservoice.com/forums/101223-feature-request/suggestions/1758239-ability-to-create-a-proforma-invoice-quotation-w :-)
14:31:06 <gour> this is helpful as well - http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Using-GNUCash-for-business-purposes-td1425790.html
14:37:56 <gour> hmm, with some scheme/html tweaking this could work
14:41:04 <warlord> :)
14:43:29 <gour> ...and make us free from PHP dep ;)
14:45:17 <warlord> Always a good thing!
14:47:49 <gour> indeed...i want to replace it with django for web as well
14:48:29 <gour> ..now i posted my 'quote' and wanted to print it regularly...where i can select it
14:48:31 <gour> ?
14:52:14 <warlord> No need to post. Posting it turns it into a real invoice in your CoA.
14:52:35 <warlord> To print, Reports -> Business -> <choose your invoice report>
14:54:51 <gour> ahh, ok...it's the same as with 'quote'...i expected some 'print' button as you mentioned above
14:55:24 <warlord> Oh, once you post the invoice you should be able to print the invoice from the toolbar.
14:56:02 <gour> that's what i'm looking for...let me see
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15:05:45 <warlord> It should be there in the toolbar on a posted invoice.
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15:07:33 <gour> i'm looking at this doc - http://www.ghacks.net/2010/01/11/invoicing-with-gnucash/ but do not see print button
15:09:01 <gour> now i got it, i believe
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15:15:17 <gour> good...the next step is to i18n-ise and tweak invoice according to our needs
15:16:05 <warlord> Good luck!
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15:24:13 <gour> warlord: i'm trying https://github.com/n1ywb/jeffs-gnucash-utils but got ImportError: No module named gnucash which implies my package does not have python bindings enabled, right?
15:28:19 <warlord> Did you compile with python bindings?
15:32:44 <gour> i'm using distro package...now building from the src
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15:37:20 <smw> warlord, What is the C equivalent of a python "Session" object?
15:37:29 <warlord> qof_session
15:37:49 <smw> can't find it on http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/classes.html
15:38:35 <smw> warlord, I am evaluating how painful it would be to write my own bindings in cython :-P
15:39:03 <smw> warlord, gnucash needs better python bindings!
15:39:23 <smw> warlord, but why isn't qof_session listed here? http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/classes.html
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16:19:15 <smw> gnucash is under the GPLv2, does this mean all plugins must also be opensourced?
16:21:00 <smw> (if distributed of course)
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16:23:09 <warlord> smw: because it's not a "class" per se
16:23:31 <warlord> smw: that's a good question, and I think it would depend on what kind of plugin and how it's implemented.
16:25:09 <smw> warlord, I am falling back to my original idea and figuring out how easy/impossible it would be to implement a decent python wrapper for gnucash_core_c
16:32:11 <warlord> Define "python wrapper"? Those APIs should already be available via an import.
16:32:26 <smw> something to make it more pythonic
16:33:02 <smw> gnucash_core (the "pythonic" api is very very terrible)
16:33:32 <smw> I keep getting objects that I can't use without calling gnucash_core_c functions
16:34:14 <smw> gnucash_core_c is created by swig automatically I think
16:35:50 <smw> warlord, everything you need can be accessed by python, but you are pretty much writing C code in python
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16:43:29 <warlord> Well,the code *is* C. There aren't classes so modules can't get auto-generated
16:43:48 <warlord> I dont see the problem with writing C code in python, personally. C is certainly prettier. ;)
16:43:52 <smw> of course
16:44:07 <smw> I am referring to two lines ago
16:44:09 <smw> ;-)
16:44:52 <warlord> Right.
16:45:28 <smw> it does not change the fact that for a python programmer, this is incredibly hard to use
16:45:30 <warlord> The goal was to make it possible to write python scripts. There wasn't a goal to make it necessarily "pythony", although I thought it was more pythony than that.
16:45:35 <smw> warlord, and it is inconsistent
16:45:37 <warlord> Learn a better language ;)
16:45:42 <warlord> (jk)
16:45:58 <smw> warlord, the inconsistency is more annoying than anything else
16:46:12 <warlord> You're welcome to submit patches to improve it.
16:46:16 <smw> Lets say you have the root account, session.get_root_account()
16:46:31 <smw> now you get_children()
16:46:34 <warlord> (honestly, I thought it was more pythony that that -- maybe you're not importing the right module?)
16:46:46 <smw> the children are not the same type as the root account
16:46:55 <smw> they are swig types of Account *
16:47:05 <smw> so you need to use gnucash_core_c to use it
16:47:17 <smw> but the root account was some sort of pythonic object
16:47:20 <smw> it makes no sense
16:47:45 * warlord shrugs
16:47:53 <warlord> I've never used the bindings, so I can't help you there.
16:47:58 <smw> yeah
16:48:21 <smw> these seem like someone started working on it and then left
16:48:58 <warlord> Certainly possible.
16:49:02 <warlord> That happens all the time.
16:49:06 <smw> yeah
16:50:36 <smw> warlord, I had issue writing a program that just found the account associated with a string "Assets:Current Assets:Cash"
16:51:38 <warlord> Try gnc_account_lookup_by_full_name
16:51:53 <smw> tried that, could not get it to work
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16:52:15 <warlord> Hm
16:52:17 <smw> It found "Assets", but not assets:current assets
16:52:34 <smw> lookup_by_name did work, but only if I did not use a :
16:52:51 <smw> so root.lookup_by_name("Cash") works
16:52:52 <warlord> Yeah, lookup_by_name specifically does only one level.
16:53:08 <smw> but I have no idea what happens if there are multiple Cashes
16:53:10 <warlord> Oh? That shouldn't have worked.
16:53:15 <smw> lol
16:53:26 <smw> warlord, I don't get it either
16:53:38 <warlord> lookup_by_name(root, "Cash") should only work if you have a top-level account named "Cash"
16:53:44 <smw> I have poured hours into figuring this out
16:53:52 * smw shrugs
16:54:00 <smw> warlord, but it did :-\
16:54:08 * warlord reads the comments..
16:54:11 <warlord> I'm wrong.
16:54:12 <smw> warlord, it could be the python one is implemented differently
16:54:15 <smw> ok
16:54:16 <warlord> It does recursively search.
16:54:49 <warlord> But yes, if you have multiple accounts named "Cash" it might not find the one you want/
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16:55:19 <warlord> Also note that lookup_by_full_name is probably case-sensitive.
16:55:46 <smw> I was using proper case
16:56:09 <smw> ooh, what is even worse is that if the Account does not exist, it still returns an account
16:56:37 <smw> when you then access something in the account, you get "none" and an error from gnc stating it is not an account
16:56:42 <warlord> Ummm...
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16:56:50 <smw> this error seems to go to stderr
16:56:55 <smw> no way to intercept this error
16:57:04 <warlord> Sounds like a swig wrapper bug
16:57:09 <smw> warlord, I am impressed at how awful this thing is
16:57:12 <warlord> (possibly not handling NULL properly)
16:57:20 <smw> most likely
16:57:47 <smw> warlord, this is why I am considering cython also
16:57:48 <warlord> Well, the wrapper was done by a consulting company years ago to support a project they were doing. It was never fully baked, and then they moved on to other things.
16:57:50 <smw> start from scratch
16:57:56 <warlord> WTF is cython?
16:58:07 * warlord has to leave in about 120 seconds for a meeting
16:58:15 <smw> cython is for compiling python to C
16:58:24 <smw> it also has good tools for calling C code
16:59:12 <smw> good for making a python module that calls gnucash libs
17:00:00 <smw> bye warlord :-)
17:00:10 <warlord> ttyl
17:00:18 <smw> thanks for listening. It is nice to get my frustration out
17:01:05 <warlord> now to wait for others to join the call.
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19:36:13 <clintc_home> to lookup an account with python bindings is this the correct way --> income = root_account.lookup_by_name("Income:Member Dues")
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21:08:06 <clintc_home> in case anyone else cares if you do a lookup_by_name on a subaccount it doesn't work if you specify the parent... ie lookup_by_name(Income:Member Dues") will not work, but lookup_by_name("Member Dues") will work
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