2012-04-26 GnuCash IRC logs

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13:28:02 <gour> anyone tried jeff's html/css invoice report recently announced in gc-users?
13:35:40 <warlord> nope. I dont build with the python bindings
13:37:06 <gour> i may try it soon 'cause it sounds promising
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13:53:03 <EsdiDude> Good afternoon people
13:53:51 <EsdiDude> I was wondering if anyone had some new ideas on how to register foreign currency transactions paid with cash.
13:54:37 <warlord> EsdiDude: I dont understand the question. Assets:Cash -> Expenses:<whatever>
13:55:16 <EsdiDude> E.g. Im withdrawing cash from my personal account, in lets say GBP whereas the account is in euro's. Now Im using that cash for a business expense, which means that the business has to raise a purchase -potentially in gbp-, but that is a debt to myself.
13:55:27 <EsdiDude> warlord: I'm still typing, not that fast :-)
13:56:19 <EsdiDude> Here it goes slightly ugly, as the debt to myself is in pounds, but I want to express that in euros.
13:56:32 <warlord> It's up to you how to record it. Personally I just translate everything back to my home currency (USD) and record it as a USD transaction. I keep track of te amount of foreign currency in the txn desc.
13:57:30 <EsdiDude> Now, everytime I get cash from the atm, I have a different exchange rate, but at that moment it's not a debt to myself yet. It's just cash in my wallet
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13:58:19 <EsdiDude> So.... I was thinking: just record it in euros at the exchange rate used whenever I withdrew the cash personally
13:58:33 <EsdiDude> one second - lasagna is ready
13:59:24 <warlord> Sure. And I handle that by having cash accounts in USD that hold the "foreign currencies". So e.g. I have an account for "EUR" which is denoted in USD but I use it to keep track of how much EUR I have, but it's accounted in USD. The #EUR is stored in the descriptions.
14:01:28 <EsdiDude> warlord: my idea exactly.
14:02:03 <warlord> It works for me, and it works for my expenses, too, because I'm paid back in USD even if I spend EUR
14:03:00 <EsdiDude> I was sortof hoping for alternative schemes though, but the problem is that (technically) I have a debt to myself in a foreign currency, but I don't want that currency in my books as I don't do pounds (just like you don't do euros)
14:03:59 * EsdiDude is going to give it a spin\
14:04:16 <EsdiDude> after dinner that is, my god Im hungry
14:07:12 <warlord> Go eat. But IMHO that's the best way I've found to do it, otherwise you need to keep the foreign currency on your books.
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14:08:57 <EsdiDude> warlord: no intention of doing so. With direct payments its easy, as I just record it in whatever I spend for it (as a cost). But with cash you have the mixture of private and non-private expenses. And ofcourse I didn't keep track of the private ones.
14:09:24 <warlord> Ah, see, you need to keep track of *everything*
14:09:26 <EsdiDude> Not that that's a big problem though, as it's cents difference, but nevertheless you try to do your accounting as exact as possible
14:10:18 <EsdiDude> warlord: would be easy if I paid everything with a cc, but then I'd get raped everytime I used mine abroad.
14:10:30 <EsdiDude> getting cash from the ATM and spending that is actually, easier
14:10:36 <warlord> understood.
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15:19:38 <MartijnS> Hello there is there anyone who suffers some problems with importing CSV files in gnucash?
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15:20:07 <warlord> MartijnS: I'm sure some people suffer some problem... but could you be more specific?
15:21:17 <MartijnS> we are using version 2.4.10 and after we selected a csv file to import and press OK gnu shuts down
15:23:23 <MartijnS> it happens after selecting an account
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15:23:41 <warlord> sounds like a bug
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15:24:24 <MartijnS> the error message is from windows and says gnucash is not working anymore and shutting down
15:28:21 <warlord> right,it sounds like a crash. Any chance you could get a stack trace? http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Stack_Trace
15:28:30 <MartijnS> while importing a MT940 file we get an error message which says "This application has requested Runtime to terminate an unusual way"
15:29:03 <warlord> Have you tried uninstalling and re-installing GnuCash?
15:30:33 <MartijnS> Sounds like a real helpdesk solution but we're going to try ;-)
15:31:45 <warlord> You're on Windows; you get what you get.
15:32:01 <warlord> Run a real operating system and these kinds of problems dont occur
15:32:04 <warlord> ;)
15:34:56 <MartijnS> :-)
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15:38:16 <MartijnS> do you know whether this problem occurs more often
15:40:05 <MartijnS> btw I'm not very familiar with gdb debugging
15:42:27 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: can you convert to QIF as well?
15:43:39 <MartijnS> no only csv and mt940 and a couple of others but not qif
15:44:03 <warlord> Honestly, gnucash is pretty stable for me, but I don't use any import mechanisms.
15:44:11 <warlord> I *rarely* see gnucash crash
15:47:09 <EsdiDude> warlord: I had the csv importer die on me before
15:47:18 <EsdiDude> warlord: and yes, that was on a real OS.
15:47:45 <EsdiDude> Nevertheless, it never failed me on QIF imports, and my QIF imports are quite big.
15:47:53 <warlord> EsdiDude: yeah, the csv importer being buggy doesn't surprise me.
15:48:11 <warlord> True, but the QIF importer is old and very well tested. The CSV importer is.. less so
15:48:22 <EsdiDude> aye
15:48:41 <MartijnS> just finish uninstall and install but still crashes both on csv and mt940
15:49:35 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: not sure why it would crash on mt940 files - though tbh I never used them before.
15:50:19 <warlord> Yeah, crashing mt940 is extremely odd.. are you sure you have the most recent version of gnucash? and do you maybe have another version installed somewhere?
15:50:20 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: try making sure you are importing mt940 files first. Open them with notepad, should be plaintext.
15:51:06 <MartijnS> pretty sure its the latest version and never used gnu before so and old installion doesnt seems very realistic ;-)
15:51:46 <MartijnS> MT940 is plain text
15:52:16 <warlord> Alas, I've never played with MT940 (dont have access here). A stack trace would be the best bet to help report the error.
15:54:47 <warlord> MartijnS: I suggest you get a stack trace and file a bug report with Bugzilla, if you could, please?
15:56:25 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: out of curiosity, what exactly is the origin of the files you're trying to import?
15:57:28 <MartijnS> bank account of ING (Dutch bank)
15:59:10 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: Never tried getting mt940 from them. Try downloading into csv and them converting
16:00:43 <EsdiDude> I can provide a (really crappy but working) script though
16:00:51 <EsdiDude> to convert it into QIF
16:01:21 <MartijnS> how?
16:01:36 <EsdiDude> I think my perl script work, but its horrifying hackerishly built :-) So you'd need perl.
16:01:38 <MartijnS> sounds goot
16:01:46 <MartijnS> perl?
16:01:57 <MartijnS> sorry that goes beyond my knowledge
16:02:02 <EsdiDude> OR - you get any other program that can convert csv to QIF, there are plenty out there on the internet.
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16:05:36 <EsdiDude> http://csmale.home.xs4all.nl/mt2ofx/nl/index.htm comes to mind
16:06:12 <MartijnS> trying the converted file..........
16:10:37 <MartijnS> qif is working only thing left is splitting debet en credit in two columns
16:10:47 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: hint: make a backup of your gnucash file _before_ you import. Usually you come to the conclusion that you want to adjust the imported file, actually being able to go 'back' to a situation before the import makes life alot easier.
16:11:45 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: ? That's a rather weird statement. I think you mean debit and credit into different accounts.
16:12:09 <EsdiDude> Make sure you understand the accounting model. Usually it takes a few tries, but it's not that hard when you get the hang of it.
16:12:28 <MartijnS> thanks for the tips and help
16:12:58 <MartijnS> my bank has one column in/out and the next column is the ammount
16:15:39 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: yes, you see the bank just delivers you the statements
16:15:58 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: it's up to you to make those statements something accountable. Just the statements are useless.
16:16:04 <EsdiDude> example:
16:16:06 <MartijnS> but no mather in or out its always a positive ammount
16:16:37 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: ofcourse, all amounts are positve and classified as either debet or credit.
16:17:11 <EsdiDude> imagine you get a salary from your work every month, but you also have expenses which you have to claim back.
16:17:23 <EsdiDude> Then you have a) a bank account with debet and credits
16:17:38 <EsdiDude> b) a cost account for the expenses you are claiming back
16:17:44 <MartijnS> but how does gnu makes the difference between them
16:18:01 <EsdiDude> c) an income account to keep track of whatever you got back your account
16:18:15 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: it doesn't. That is up to you!
16:19:15 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: the trick is to do that once via your conversion tool.
16:20:06 <EsdiDude> MartijnS: e.g. you create a costaccount for your energybill and everything you pay towards your energy supplier you post to that account. That amount is then deducted from your bank account, effectively balancing it out.
16:20:58 <EsdiDude> Now at the end of the year you could have an _income_ from your energy supplier because you .e.g consumed less then what you paid. You can match that towards an income account (e.g. other income) to keep track of where your cash is coming from and going to.
16:21:49 <EsdiDude> Heck, I imported 5 years of data and classified the major expenses that way. Clothing, rent, water, energy, insurances, incomes etc
16:22:22 <EsdiDude> Most of the matching done on account number I paid to, with debet / credit to understand what was happening)
16:23:03 <EsdiDude> Bankcosts are also nice to filter out that way. Quite a bit of a hidden cost there.
16:23:42 <MartijnS> thanks all this is working quite well
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22:05:41 <max> As usual, I am always trolling for info about the python api .. does anyone have any scripts to share, besides the ones available online?
22:06:14 <max> i am simply trying to ad a transaction to an already existing account...
22:08:12 <fell> max: what is wrong with the example of yesterday?
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22:43:57 <max> fell: couldn't figure out to purely ad a transaction from that example
22:44:18 <max> I am reading the api code to try and get a feel how it works...
22:44:25 <max> however it seems really complex
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22:49:57 <fell> line 17/18: start a transaction
22:50:41 <fell> line 22/23 define the splits
22:51:10 <fell> line 24/25 get the currency
22:52:39 <fell> line 55-57 set the 1. split
22:53:15 <fell> line 59-61: set the second split
22:55:18 <fell> line 27/28: set the amounts
22:56:49 <fell> line 63/64: the header if the 2. transaction
22:57:04 <fell> line 66/6
22:57:26 <fell> 7 the headerof the 2. transaction
22:58:37 <fell> 69-72 the counter account of the first transaction
22:59:05 <fell> 74-77 the counteraccount of the secount transaction
23:00:02 <fell> 80/81 commit the transactions
23:01:04 <fell> 83-85 save the file, finish the session and free the memory
23:02:43 <fell> your only problem is How to get already existing accounts, but that shoul be in another example file.
23:04:37 <fell> ... and open an already existing file.
23:06:39 <max> fell: thanks for those line numbers, I am going to look at again and see if that helps...
23:07:29 <fell> Good luck! I need to sleep now.
23:08:17 <max> fell: thanks for your help
23:08:18 <max> sleep well!
23:08:46 <fell> The file, I was explaining was http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/optional/python-bindings/example_scripts/simple_test.py
23:08:57 <max> yeah, I have that...
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