2012-03-27 GnuCash IRC logs

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05:01:19 <Quanta> whan should gnucash v2.5.0 be relesed?
05:02:01 <warlord> Quanta: when the devs are ready to start the alpha tests for the 2.6 series
05:04:10 <Quanta> is there approxmated time for it? (warlord, i wont hold for your answer, in case it wont happen ;) )
05:04:25 <warlord> I dont know. Check the Release_Schedule wiki page?
05:04:51 <Quanta> i did
05:05:30 <Quanta> v2.5.0 2011-12-18
05:06:14 <Quanta> at the moment it is only for tests and i dont know from where i could download it
05:07:49 <warlord> 2.5.0 was not released in December.
05:07:56 <warlord> so.. that schedule has clearly slipped.
05:08:11 <warlord> You are welcome to test 2.4.99
05:08:53 <Quanta> where could i find this version? or instraction how to download it from the tree?
05:11:08 <warlord> 2.4.99 is trunk. there is no tag.
05:11:14 <warlord> it's a moving target
05:12:17 <warlord> as for downloading it -- what OS/Distro?
05:13:25 <Quanta> i am using gentoo
05:13:35 <Quanta> i was able to find 2.4.99 for win32....
05:13:38 <Quanta> but not linux
05:13:41 <warlord> Okay, then you will need to download trunk and build it.
05:13:48 <warlord> Right, we don't ship binaries for Linux
05:14:16 <warlord> (and for Mac we only ship binaries for real releases)
05:15:39 <Quanta> i have no problem downloading the trunk
05:16:25 <warlord> i just dont know if the devs consider it "done" yet.
05:17:23 <Quanta> normally you find something like svn co http:// .... that tells you from where to download it, which i was not able to find
05:19:13 <warlord> It's on the Subversion wiki page.
05:19:35 <Quanta> could you please provide me the link?
05:20:18 <Quanta> ok
05:20:22 <Quanta> found it
05:20:41 <Quanta> svn checkout http://svn.gnucash.org/repo/gnucash/trunk gnucash is this the right one? (for 2.4.99)
05:21:04 <warlord> www.gnucash.org -> [ Downloads/Program ] -> guidelines for several distributions -> Subvesion
05:21:17 <warlord> yes, that would be trunk.
05:21:39 <warlord> Note that you will need all the build deps installed for autogen.sh to run. please read the deps readme
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07:42:05 <Arafangion> G'evening.
07:43:13 <warlord> good afternoon
07:45:21 <Arafangion> I restored from backups, everything seems to be good. :)'
07:45:33 <Arafangion> Fascinating watching the price of one's lone shares rise and fall. :)
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07:47:11 <warlord> :)
07:47:58 <Arafangion> warlord: Lost and gained about 25% in one 24-hours. :)
07:48:47 <warlord> interesting
07:49:38 <Arafangion> It's a fairly volatile share.
07:52:31 <Arafangion> Actually it wasn't 25%, but it looked volatile. Definetly must develop a portfolio.
08:00:33 <warlord> ok
08:01:29 <Arafangion> The share is less interesting, I just found it interesting how well gnucash gives feedback.
08:03:52 <Arafangion> I think learning how to use GNUCash has done more than /anything/ else in teaching me about finance.
08:04:09 <Arafangion> (A good thing!)
08:04:40 <warlord> :)
08:06:44 <Arafangion> It's actually been rather interesting... Finance is one area in which people are *not* inclined to help - and frankly, I'd feel weird if I got /finance/ advice in this channel, but at the same time, the learning material's very accessible.
08:15:39 <Quanta> i am trying to compile gnucash 2.4.99 and i get the following error: checking for ./src/swig-runtime.h... no
08:16:41 <warlord> Do you have SWIG installed?
08:17:32 <Quanta> dev-lang/swig-2.0.4-r1, yes
08:19:01 * Arafangion installs subversion
08:20:35 <Quanta> i also have subversion
08:20:57 <Quanta> i read somewhere that it is a problem of not compiling in the right order
08:21:07 <warlord> Hmm, I don't know if Swig-2 works.
08:22:00 <warlord> Oh, I guess 2.0.4 works.
08:22:02 <Arafangion> swig 2's the latest major version, and has been for a long time.
08:22:44 <warlord> is 'svn' in your path?
08:22:45 <Arafangion> warlord: You have manual changelog files in svn? Why not just use the version control system and/or the ticketing system for that?
08:22:55 <warlord> ????
08:22:56 <warlord> We do.
08:23:21 <Arafangion> Well, the gnucash-2.4 branch has, for instance, ChangeLog.2004
08:23:29 <warlord> Right...
08:23:35 <Arafangion> Right up to 2010.
08:23:43 <warlord> If every user had to auto-generate that on every build it would take forever!
08:24:04 <Arafangion> They're incorporated into the build?
08:24:07 <warlord> So yes, we checkpoint in historical changelogs, generated from SVN
08:24:22 <warlord> Oh yeah! ChangeLog generation is part of the build. It's required for GPL compliance.
08:24:40 <Arafangion> warlord: Required for GPL!?
08:25:12 <Arafangion> Hmm, yeah, svn log is rather slow, it looks!
08:25:55 <warlord> So, checking for ./src/swig-runtime.h... no seems to imply that it expects that file to be there. That implies to me that the "is-building-from-svn" isn't working. is this a pure SVN Checkout? or did you do something after your svn co?
08:27:32 <Quanta> du you ask me? or someone else?
08:28:38 <warlord> Quanta: yes, you
08:28:50 <Arafangion> Quanta: I'm not the one with the swig issue. :)
08:29:01 <warlord> (and also the "is svn in the path")
08:29:48 <Quanta> i am trying trying to compile it from svn source (i also saw that there is git source)
08:30:13 <Quanta> one sec, at the moment i cant anser your question, since i dont know
08:30:19 <warlord> Quanta: right. Do you have 'svn' in your path?
08:35:43 <Quanta> i have /usr/bin/svn
08:36:02 <Quanta> so svn is in my /usr/bin directory, which is in my path
08:36:07 <warlord> Okay. Right...
08:37:09 <warlord> Quanta: what exactly is your configure line?
08:38:29 <Quanta> this where you could probably not help me, since i amtrying to do it over ebuild
08:38:45 <Quanta> (gentoo) instead of doing it manually
08:38:51 <Quanta> so i could remove it
08:38:56 <Quanta> in case it doent work
08:39:01 <Quanta> *doesnt
08:39:12 <warlord> Yeah, that wont work -- ebuild is expecting a tarball.
08:39:36 <warlord> .. and gnc-svnversion probably doesn't properly run in that environment.
08:39:51 <warlord> My suggestion: Build it yourself and use --prefix=/opt/gnucash
08:40:29 <Quanta> you mean make --prefix=/opt/gnucash?
08:41:00 <warlord> No, configure
08:41:30 <Quanta> ok, trying it
08:42:42 <Quanta> why does gnucash uses subversion and git?
08:42:49 <Quanta> are they equal?
08:42:58 <Quanta> i mean the version of gnucash
08:45:29 <warlord> Yes.
08:45:56 <warlord> there is a daemon that keeps them in sync. SVN is "canonical", and lots of the build tools use svn.
08:46:15 <warlord> There is a desire by many of the devs to convert to git, but that requires fixing all the automation.
08:49:18 <Arafangion> git's very sexy. :)
08:49:32 <warlord> Git has its own issues.
08:49:35 <warlord> (as does everything)
08:49:45 * Arafangion ignores warlord on that!
08:49:53 <Arafangion> But very true, git does get a bit raw at times.
08:49:55 <warlord> git isn't perfect.
08:50:01 <warlord> (nothing is)
08:50:07 <warlord> I'm not saying svn is better.
08:50:19 <warlord> But it does depend on what problem (exactly) you are trying to solve.
08:50:22 <Arafangion> I don't like svn... But I think svn's getting better.
08:50:28 <warlord> different problems, different tools.
08:50:50 <Arafangion> But meh, svn was the first VCS I tried, and I used to love it, but no-longer. I'd actually sooner use perforce.
08:51:51 <warlord> Eww
08:52:02 <warlord> (then again, I'd rather use bitkeeper)
08:52:15 <warlord> ... except for the license. Which is a similar issue with p4
08:53:03 <Arafangion> Well, thing with p4... It at least has merging.
08:53:20 <warlord> my first VCS was RCS. Then SCCS, then CVS, then SVN.
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08:53:30 <Arafangion> But I think p4 will soon be overtaken by SVN.
08:53:35 <Arafangion> I've read a paper about SCCS!
08:53:41 <warlord> (oh, and Teamware in there shortly after, concurrent with, SCCS)
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08:54:42 <Arafangion> I've used SVN, although admitably version 1.2, which I think was prior to it having somewhat reasonable merging in contrived workflows, then perforce... And now git.
08:55:00 <Quanta> does the developer of gnucash uses normally emacs? or something else?
08:55:11 <warlord> Oh, wow, 1.2 was a LONG time ago. 1.4+ or more.
08:55:17 <Arafangion> warlord: Yes. :)
08:55:40 <warlord> Arafangion: do not base your views on SVN based on 1.2. That was a long LONG time ago.
08:55:49 <warlord> Quanta: I think the devs use emacs and vi.
08:56:28 <Arafangion> Heh, I have read about the changes that have since come into SVN though, they're generally good but I've yet to like how it does merging, although I think it does now at least track the merge for you.
08:57:02 <warlord> Yeah, 1.6 tracks merges.
08:58:07 <Arafangion> warlord: p4 tracks changes for merges almost as well as Git does, except it does so with explicit metadata (alas), and it's file-based. (Also, alas)
08:58:19 <Arafangion> warlord: I'm curious, though, what's your biggest issue with git?
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09:02:40 <Arafangion> Bah, slib issue. :(
09:06:44 <Arafangion> Ok, that's fixed... Now syntax error near unexpected token `gnc_have_guile_www,'.
09:09:38 <Arafangion> I've got: checking if guile needs our copy of (guile www)... ./configure: line 20569: syntax error near unexpected token `gnc_have_guile_www,'
09:09:53 <Arafangion> Using guile 1.8.7.
09:14:10 <Arafangion> Well, re-running autogen.sh fixed that, one DOES have to run that.
09:16:33 * Arafangion disables dbi...
09:21:25 <Arafangion> Damn, Atom CPU's are slow to compile!
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09:22:22 <warlord> IIRC, git has a problem with certain types of resource renaming.
09:22:59 <Arafangion> That would surprise me - it doesn't really have a concept of renaming.
09:23:34 <warlord> would surprise you? or wouldn't surprise you?
09:23:45 <warlord> Also, IIRC the windows tools are sub-optimal.
09:23:46 <Arafangion> Would. :)
09:24:05 <Arafangion> The windows tools were very poor a few years ago.
09:24:19 <Arafangion> Now, I think they're sufficient.
09:24:20 <warlord> Then your statement doesn't parse. Why would it surprise you that it fails to handle resource renaming when it doesn't have a concept of renaming?
09:24:42 <Arafangion> warlord: It would also surprise me if it handled resource renaming. ;)
09:25:13 <Arafangion> warlord: You have to promise something in order to fail at it.
09:25:47 <warlord> See, that's something that svn does
09:26:03 <Arafangion> Arguably.
09:26:14 <Arafangion> See, with SVN, you have to tell the VCS that it's renamed.
09:26:32 <warlord> Sure, but when you do that it handles it.
09:26:38 <warlord> git doesn't.
09:26:40 <Arafangion> If you copied it and just naively added it, SVN won't see it as a rename.
09:26:47 <warlord> Sure..
09:26:57 <Arafangion> And there's no way to add that metadata after the fact, also, it's a PITA, imho.
09:26:58 <warlord> but git doesn't have a way to restructure your source tree
09:27:37 <warlord> Eh, svn mv is pretty easy, especially when you can do it instead of just "mv". Besides, it's not something you usually do *often*, but it's something I think does happen > 0 times.
09:27:44 <Arafangion> You can, although it's not common.
09:27:56 <warlord> It's okay, IMHO, if it's a PITA. But IMHO the VCS does need to support it.
09:27:58 <Arafangion> warlord: Count yourself lucky that you don't use IDE's that automatically rename your files for you!
09:28:14 * warlord uses emacs
09:28:23 <Arafangion> warlord: Some langauges require the files to be renamed!
09:28:38 * Arafangion tries to stop this 'nick quoting' thing...
09:29:00 <Arafangion> The way git does it - and I personally like it, is that it relies on heuristcs to track the file renames, and I like it.
09:29:40 <Arafangion> It means that seeing the history of a particular function isn't limited to the history of that one file.
09:29:44 <warlord> sure, like ruby, where you need FooClass to be in foo_class.rb
09:29:55 <Arafangion> No, I don't think ruby requires that.
09:29:57 <warlord> If you rename that to BarClass, you need to rename to bar_class.rb
09:30:01 <warlord> Well, RoR does
09:30:08 <Arafangion> Ah, RoR.
09:30:46 <warlord> Anyways, the point remains that the git heuristics fail, whereas svn wont if you use the tool correctly. There's no way to use git "correctly" 100% of the time.
09:30:55 <Arafangion> Imho, that's a fairly big if.
09:31:17 <warlord> where's the if?
09:31:24 <Arafangion> "if you use the tool correctly". :)
09:31:28 <warlord> Oh, the "use the tool correctly"?
09:31:41 <warlord> I don't think it's that big an "if" in practice.
09:32:02 <Arafangion> I find that peopel frequently don't record file moves in practice - at least, in the enterprise. :(
09:32:04 <warlord> I've been using svn for a long time now. Probably over a decade. i dont think I've ever failed to properly 'mv' a file
09:33:42 <Arafangion> Anyway, this is a fairly subjective point - I prefer the way git does it there. :)
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09:34:11 <warlord> Sure, but it would be nice if there were a way to explicitly tell git when its heuristics fail.
09:34:52 <Arafangion> warlord: What would be the point? The hueristics aren't part of how git works.
09:35:19 <warlord> The point would be to allow git to track the history of renamed resources (files and directories)
09:36:20 <Arafangion> To be fair, the heuristics will only fail if you have very significant changes to a file, AND you move it.
09:36:30 <Arafangion> Like, I think 80% of the file has to be changed.
09:36:52 <Arafangion> In the same change.
09:37:28 <Arafangion> This mostly only matters when looking at the blame output, imho.
09:38:37 <Arafangion> I would like to see good, *and* mature GUI frontends for git, though. :( Even though I'm not normally a GUI user, it's nice to have the option.
09:40:53 <warlord> I dont necessarily care about GUI FEs
09:41:41 <Arafangion> Yep, likewise, although sometimes a GUI is nice for logs.
09:41:52 <Arafangion> I do enterprise software dev. :(
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09:42:50 <Arafangion> Hmm, just compiled and installed the latest SVN gnucash-2.4 :) It's almost the same.
09:43:31 <warlord> the same as...??
09:44:01 <Arafangion> The default debian one, which was...
09:44:04 * Arafangion takes a look.
09:44:12 <Arafangion> Ah, 2.2.9
09:44:56 <warlord> 2.2.9 -> 2.4.10 ... the ui look-and-feel didn't change much. The main feature updates are a bunch of bug fixes, some reporting changes, and SQL backends.
09:45:49 <Arafangion> Pretty awesome. I disabled those SQL backends, though.
09:47:03 <Arafangion> Oh, and my shares now appear in my securities window.
09:47:39 <warlord> Just don't use "template"
09:47:41 <warlord> ;)
09:47:45 <Arafangion> Heh. :)
09:47:57 <Arafangion> That reminds me, how do I confirm that I don't still have that mess in my data file?
09:48:06 <Arafangion> Although it's very unlikely.
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09:48:42 <Arafangion> The UI is slightly different though - different theme, that's the only visual difference I can see.
09:49:42 <warlord> Ummm... not sure how to do that.
09:51:09 <Arafangion> I'll worry about it later!
09:52:10 <Arafangion> gnucash takes all of 47 MB on my disk, although that's probably not stripped.
09:52:29 <warlord> 47MB isn't too bad!
09:52:30 <Arafangion> The new version does feel slightly faster, though.
09:52:43 <warlord> The bits are fresher? ;)
09:54:00 <Arafangion> Yep, that would do it. :)
09:54:23 <warlord> :)
09:55:12 * Arafangion locates his other shares... He got some pathetically tiny shares when he opened his bank account.
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09:58:07 <warlord> LOL
09:58:50 <Arafangion> warlord: Ah, I have "10.0" shares.
09:59:04 <warlord> okay.
09:59:15 <Arafangion> That's probably dollars, I think.
10:00:22 <warlord> depends on the column, and the account commodity type
10:13:48 <Arafangion> That implies that I have the *row*. :)
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10:14:31 <genesis> is aqbanking the best framework to implement ebics transaction for gnucash and other banking software ?
10:14:47 <Arafangion> The ./configure mentioned that was obsolete?
10:15:05 <genesis> there was a closed source implementation ,but author didn't release the code and didn't answer my email
10:15:52 <genesis> it seems aqbanking is used by gnucash only for hbci transaction
10:16:27 <warlord> no, it's used to all online banking, hbci, ofx-dc, mt940, ...
10:16:27 <genesis> have you some advise about ebics implementation for gnucash ?
10:16:43 <warlord> I have no idea what ibics is. but AqB is probably the right place to put it.
10:17:57 <genesis> this project has no contibuter, i ask john , since he fork aqbanking on github, for what purpose i donno.
10:18:27 <warlord> Arafangion: I meant it depends on which column of the register is displaying the number 10.0
10:18:47 <warlord> genesis: ??? What do you mean? Contact Martin
10:19:03 <Arafangion> warlord: I have the number "10.0" on my bank statement, mailed to me. :)
10:19:17 <genesis> warlord : i've already do that :)
10:19:18 <warlord> Oh..... No clue there.
10:19:29 <warlord> genesis: how long ago?
10:19:49 <genesis> 5 days
10:19:59 <genesis> i need to finalise an offer for a customer
10:20:16 <warlord> maybe martin is on holiday this week.
10:20:28 <genesis> ok
10:20:30 <warlord> (we're talking about the AqBanking Martin, right?)
10:20:34 <genesis> right
10:20:38 <warlord> He's usually pretty responsive to emails.
10:20:45 <warlord> But he might be offline
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10:32:08 <Arafangion> Oh, duh. Limited companies aren't on the stock exchange.
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11:03:00 <Arafangion> G'night!
11:04:20 <warlord> see ya
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13:01:03 <john> genesis, I didn't fork aqbanking. I just rehost the tarball (with Martin's permission) because his website doesn't play well with jhbuild. It's usually not the latest version, it's the one referred to in the gnucash moduleset.
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20:19:43 <rhizmoe> since payments don't follow payment terms, should i register discounted payments as paid in full with a note of the true amount and reason, or is there a way to "pay" the amount discounted?
20:20:21 <rhizmoe> maybe a split account thing, with a new category for the discount? perhaps an expense category?
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