2012-02-13 GnuCash IRC logs

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09:49:43 <zeev> How can I modify(rename strings(like Unit price -> Price)) the inner of the invoice? Using Scheme? Do you I have to do it each time I update GC?
09:49:43 <gncbot> zeev: Sent 23 hours and 38 minutes ago: <warlord> No, we don't support UBL at the moment, and support is not planned. But patches are always welcome if you want to see it happen!
09:51:40 <zeev> 2) how can I switch to another language? Do I have to recompile GC myself?
09:55:45 <zeev> I have to go.... so please lleave me a message with the bot...
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10:43:24 <warlord> @tell zeev Yes, to change those titles you will have to modify the .scm file -- and you would have to do that every time you update gnucash. Unless you did a copy-and-paste-and-modify of the report, but then you might fall out of repair at every major upgrade.
10:43:24 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
10:44:26 <warlord> @tell zeev As for switching to another language: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_I_want_to_use_GnuCash_in_my_own_language
10:44:26 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
10:46:57 <bz> warlord: I added a reduced testcase to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=669964
10:49:09 <warlord> bz: yes, I saw that, thanks.
10:49:35 <warlord> That should be enough for one of the devs to look at it, although frankly the log-replay usually doesn't get much love. I suspect the real answer is going to be "save early, save often"
10:49:47 <warlord> log-replay is fundamentally broken in many ways.
10:54:20 <gour> yesterday i found out about moneyguru (or how it's called). it looks like GC-lite. has anyone tried it?
10:58:12 <warlord> Nope
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11:13:29 <bz> warlord: hrm
11:13:31 <bz> warlord: so...
11:13:47 <bz> warlord: I've been thinking of generating log files myself programmatically to import transactions
11:14:05 <bz> warlord: (the existing import mechanisms don't really seem well suited for bulk-ish import)
11:14:14 <bz> warlord: is there another way I could do that?
11:15:21 <bz> warlord: I mean... I guess I could manually munge the XML store, but that seems somewhat fraught with danger...
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13:04:32 <DanC> The docs say there should be a "New Accounts Tab" item under File, but I don't see it. (I'm using 2.4.8).
13:05:03 <DanC> I had two windows when I last opened this gnucash file (well, DB actually) but one of them seems to be gone and it took my accounts tab with it.
13:07:16 <DanC> ugh... looks like I should have version-controlled the book file in order to keep complete backups
13:08:21 <DanC> the mix of .ini and sexpr syntax is kinda interesting
13:09:41 <DanC> moving the book file out of the way gives me an accounts tab, though all my reports are gone. I guess I can deal.
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13:18:57 <warlord> bz: what's wrong with importing via QIF?
13:19:19 <warlord> DanC: It's under View
13:19:43 <DanC> ah. thanks.
13:20:05 * DanC feels obliged to file a doc bug or fix... considers the cost...
13:20:25 <warlord> Please do. Better yet, submit a docs patch! )
13:20:31 <bz> warlord: you still there?
13:21:05 <bz> warlord: so it's possible that I'm misunderstanding the QIF import
13:21:37 <bz> warlord: but as far as I can tell it doesn't actually let me create a share exchange transaction that directly exchanges shares in one mutual fund for another
13:21:52 <bz> warlord: because to the QIF importer those look like separate buy and sell transactions
13:21:58 <bz> warlord: there's no way to link them up
13:22:12 <bz> warlord: because the QIF format is not double-entry....
13:23:44 <warlord> Ah, it MAY be that you are correct that you cannot link two fund accounts via QIF. In that sense, I feel there is no import method you can safely use. Log Replay is *not* safe, and anti-recommended.
13:24:16 <warlord> there MAY be a way to do it in QIF... but i dont know how.
13:24:25 * bz couldn't figure one out
13:25:35 <warlord> you mght need an itermediaryt cash acct.
13:25:42 <bz> I suppose I could just give up and introduce a dummy cash account
13:26:00 <bz> I didn't want to do it before because it screwed up the portfolio report
13:26:16 <bz> because it was treated as a sell and buy, while it's actually a completely account-internal transaction
13:26:26 <warlord> how many txns are we talking here?
13:26:31 <bz> um
13:26:42 * bz thinks
13:27:02 <bz> for the particular share exchange transaction, three a month
13:27:05 <bz> so far
13:27:20 <bz> for transactions I'd like to be importing in general, it depends on how you count them
13:27:48 <bz> right now, for example, I'm recording a deposit to the relevant account as a multi-split transaction, with money leaving one bank account and going to several different mutual funds
13:27:54 <bz> (something else QIF really can't do)
13:28:12 <bz> if you count it that way, we're talking 7 transactions a month
13:28:24 <jmd`> Is there a way to get gnucash to update my bank's records from my GC account tree?
13:28:28 <bz> which gets to be a bit of a pain to hand-input all the splits for
13:28:45 <bz> if you just count the splits, it's closer to 40+ per month
13:29:35 <warlord> Actually, I think qif *CAN* do that..
13:30:01 <warlord> jmd`: no, gnucash cannot push to your bank
13:30:09 <bz> warlord: hmm
13:30:41 <warlord> also, have you considered using gnucash's autofill to generate the splits, and then you just have to fill in the amounts/values/prices?
13:30:52 <bz> warlord: well, sure
13:30:59 <bz> warlord: and that's how I used to do it
13:31:05 <bz> warlord: but the filling in takes time
13:31:05 * warlord doesn't use any importers, personally
13:31:25 <bz> warlord: I measured, and come end of quarter when I would be reconciling all this stuff it would take me 3-4 hours
13:31:31 <bz> warlord: which seemed.... suboptimal
13:31:45 <bz> warlord: esp since the time will only increase in the future...
13:31:48 <warlord> why do it once a quarter instead of once a month?
13:31:57 <warlord> or once a week?
13:32:11 <warlord> (or do you only get quarterly statements?)
13:32:17 <bz> well, because the statements are quarterly
13:32:51 <bz> I mean... I can pull the thing up on the website more often than that
13:33:07 <bz> but then I have to constantly keep it in mind to do this week
13:35:11 <warlord> sure, but thats the whole point of spreading it out, so it's not all at once. Imagine if you didnt have taxes withheld through the year, and come tax time you had to come up with the money to pay all your taxes at once!
13:35:30 * bz would actually not have any problem with that
13:35:32 <bz> personally
13:35:55 <bz> it would mostly be a problem for the government, both in terms of operations and compliance
13:35:57 <warlord> So you think you could budget thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars in taxes over the course of the year?
13:36:12 <bz> absolutely
13:36:26 <warlord> then you are better than the vast majority of people I know.
13:36:29 <warlord> (including myself)
13:36:32 <bz> heh
13:36:41 <warlord> I'm pretty good at budgeting, but not *that* good.
13:36:58 <bz> actually, I just have more income than expenses by enough that it wouldn't be an issue
13:37:10 <bz> I agree that in general it would be a problem, hence compliance issues
13:37:23 <bz> but the relevant comparison isn't quite right
13:37:35 <bz> we're talking 3 hours a quarter vs say 15 minutes weekly, right?
13:37:52 <warlord> Give or take, sure.
13:37:55 <bz> but the 15 minutes also has "remember to do it" overhead costs....
13:38:01 <bz> which
13:38:05 <bz> make the problem even worse
13:38:24 * bz would have a hard time staying on top of it
13:38:28 <warlord> Just like you have to remember to pay the rent every month?
13:38:43 <bz> actually, I do an automated payment for my mortgage
13:38:49 <bz> precisely so I don't have to think about it
13:39:05 <bz> it's just scheduled, it happens, no need to worry about it on my part
13:40:27 <warlord> fair enough..
13:40:52 <bz> ok
13:41:13 <bz> so it sounds like my options are to figure out how to bend QIF to my will or to restructure the transactions somehow... :(
13:41:24 <warlord> returning back to GnuCash -- I dont think there are any good ways to mass-import the type of data you want. It *may* be possible in QIF.
13:41:30 <bz> well, I guess I have temporary option (c), which is change the log I create to look more like hand-entry
13:41:38 <bz> with its 3 log entries and whatnot
13:41:49 <bz> ok
13:41:52 <bz> I guess a question is...
13:41:52 <warlord> Again, I would highly recommend you NOT use the log replay.
13:42:04 * bz did say "temporary"
13:42:15 <bz> would there be interest in having a way to import this type of data?
13:42:24 <bz> as in, is it worth me investing time in figuring out how to implement it?
13:42:35 <bz> or am I the first person to come along asking for this?
13:42:52 * bz wonders how most people keep track of investment accounts in gnucash... or whether they even do
13:44:12 <warlord> Honestly, I would be personally interested in it. I *was* keeping track of my Vanguard accounts, but I stopped entering data a while ago, and catching up would be a chore unless I could do a mass import. And like you, I do have transfers between my funds.
13:44:39 <warlord> Luckily one fund is always a NAV=$1 so I can sorta treat it like a currency.
13:44:49 <bz> heh
13:45:11 <bz> ok
13:45:16 * bz will think about this a bit
13:45:39 <bz> creating a new data format here seems silly
13:45:53 <bz> ideally we could just make the QIF importer do the right thing somehow....
13:46:00 <jmd`> Is Gnucash ready for Greece's exit from the Euro?
13:46:00 <bz> I'll poke a bit more at QIF
13:46:59 <warlord> please do.
13:47:09 <warlord> jmd`: heh
13:53:10 <bz> warlord: so...
13:53:20 <bz> warlord: _if_ I'm generating the QIF myself
13:53:42 <bz> warlord: I could just make up a random value for the "N" (investment action) field
13:54:07 <warlord> Well, I think the importer has a list of known actions, and might balk at something it doesn't know.
13:54:14 <bz> right
13:54:22 <bz> that presumes I change the importer to recognize this new thing
13:54:31 <bz> the other option is to have the importer guess
13:54:55 <bz> if it sees two transactions on the same day for different funds with opposite values in $
13:56:07 <warlord> the importer already tries to be smart enough that if it sees A->B and then B<-A then it'll "merge" them.
13:56:28 <warlord> (but it tends to only be smart if both 'A' and 'B' get processed simultaneously)
13:56:42 <bz> Hmm
13:56:47 <bz> What do you mean by A->B and B->A ?
13:57:01 <bz> And in my case, of course, both sides of the share exchange would show up together
13:57:43 <warlord> Look closer. I said A->B and B<-A
13:57:54 <bz> oh, ok
13:58:02 <warlord> Both sides of the same Txn
13:58:15 <warlord> (qif's way to do "double entry")
13:58:30 <bz> hrm
13:58:33 <bz> what are A and B?
13:58:42 <bz> QIF can just record stuff going in and coming out?
13:58:57 <bz> You mean if the importer sees a Sell and a Buy for the same amount it will try to merge them?
13:59:30 <warlord> A and B are accounts
13:59:41 <warlord> (in the QIF sense)
14:00:30 <warlord> QIF can record stuff going in and out of an account, generally denoted by + and -. And yes, the importer can (in some cases, at least) map a + in one account to a - in another account, provided the correct L[...] is provided.
14:00:38 <warlord> ... in both locations
14:02:01 <bz> hmm
14:02:12 * bz hadn't seen anything on + and -, did see L
14:02:41 <warlord> Well, + is assumed
14:02:49 <bz> oh, I see
14:02:58 <bz> you mean positive value and negative value
14:03:05 <bz> not + and - as QIF codes
14:03:30 <bz> ok
14:03:40 <bz> I'll experiment with the current importer behavior
14:03:43 <bz> thanks!
14:03:54 <warlord> Correct
14:05:39 <bz> does gnucash care about newline format for QIF files, btw?
14:05:49 <bz> or are Unix newlines fine?
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14:09:33 <warlord> Unix newlines are fine
14:10:00 <warlord> (I think it might depend on what platform you are on -- if you're on windows then it might need CRLF)
14:12:31 * bz is not on Windows
14:12:34 <bz> ok, great
14:12:38 * bz should do real work for a bit
14:12:42 <bz> back to this tonight. ;)
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14:12:48 <warlord> have fun
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17:21:19 <robin_c> Hi- I've been using GnuCash on Windows for a couple of years now, but this weekend, I installed Ubuntu 11.10 on a different laptop
17:21:44 <robin_c> I compiled and installed GC 2.4.10 successfully, and now I'm trying to install F::Q
17:22:53 <robin_c> I'm trying to follow the directions in the wiki, but I get an error saying that 'gnc-fq-dump' is not currently installed and that I need to install gnucash first. But GnuCash already is installed
17:22:56 <robin_c> where do I go from here?
17:25:10 <robin_c> sorry, I'm sure this is a basic question, but I'm COMPLETELY new to Linux
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17:45:43 <PlayIt> Hey I have a general question / possible error report
17:48:34 <PlayIt> Im learning how to use stocks in GNU Cash and In one of the examples in the included documentation it ask you to enter the difference between sold price and bought price as capital gain. I need to know if this is correct or should the Commission of $75 in the example be factored in as well
17:48:51 <PlayIt> Im new to accounting and just making sure I learn everything correctly
17:50:16 <PlayIt> In the example you don't figure in the $75 commission into the capital gain.. Is this the correct way of doing it?
17:51:21 <PlayIt> i'll check back later today for the answer.. Please explain why when you answer so I will understand better.. Thanks!
17:56:50 <andi5> """(23:21:28) robin_c: Hi- I've been using GnuCash on Windows for a couple of years now""" .... wow, somehow i still regard it as a new born child ;)
17:57:55 <robin_c> It kinda was like a newborn child to first get going.
17:59:30 <andi5> robin_c: so you used a custom prefix to configure the source?
17:59:54 <andi5> is there some gnc-fq-dump in $prefix/bin ?
18:01:07 <andi5> robin_c: if there is, you might want to try e.g. PATH=/usr/bin/gnucash2.4/bin:$PATH gnucash
18:01:19 <robin_c> Yes. I entered 'locate gnc-fq-update' and it pointed me to /usr/bin/gnucash/bin
18:01:40 <andi5> robin_c: oh well... locate... was it fast?
18:01:47 <robin_c> yes
18:03:16 <andi5> btw, i think http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building#Ubuntu_11.10_.28Oneiric_Ocelot.29 definitely needs another --prefix example... any descendent of /usr/bin looks flaky
18:04:00 <robin_c> what prefix should I have used?
18:04:56 <andi5> robin_c: i guess there is no "should"... i would have prepared /opt/gnucash, or personally as user even ~/soft/gnucash.... but i guess you used /usr/bin/gnucash which should work for now
18:06:14 <andi5> robin_c: so what about this? PATH=/usr/bin/gnucash/bin:$PATH gnucash
18:07:19 <robin_c> that launches gnucash and opens my most recent file.
18:08:15 <robin_c> Although, for some reason, I'm getting the Lock error message, even though there are no other instances of gnucash and I closed it normally the last time I used it.
18:08:28 <andi5> ah... sorry, you are trying to install f::q now... it is too late for me :( ... i guess the main problem is that gnc-fq-dump is not in your PATH
18:08:36 <robin_c> That might be because I've got the file in Dropbox, I think I'm going to fix that later
18:09:01 <robin_c> Can I add it?
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18:10:30 <andi5> sure... i think you might want to add it to ~/.profile .... simple append "[ -d /usr/bin/gnucash/bin ] && export PATH=/usr/bin/gnucash/bin:$PATH" in a new line...
18:10:54 <robin_c> great thanks, I'll try that.
18:10:59 <andi5> to give it a test without the need to logout, try "source ~/.profile" in a shell, followed by "which gnc-fq-dump"
18:11:08 <andi5> have fun, gotta go, bye!
18:11:16 <robin_c> thanks again
18:11:26 <andi5> you are welcome :)
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18:31:26 <elnino> hi.
18:32:02 <elnino> I tried connecting to my bank and entered in my password, and then I thought the gnucash "crashed" so I used task manager to close it prematurely.
18:32:31 <elnino> since then, It says I can't accquire a lock for my user when trying to download transactions. and it no longer prompts me for my password.
18:32:50 <elnino> is there a plce I can "clear" my password so it asks me for it again?
18:33:25 <elnino> I dn't know if my "password" was entered correctlly in the first place, so I want to try reenering it again.
18:35:10 <warlord> elnino: At what point does it say that it cannot 'acquire a lock'?
18:35:26 <elnino> I'll do it again.. justa sec.
18:37:47 <elnino> actions->online actions-get transactions, enter dates, click ok.
18:37:52 <elnino> current action: accquiring lock
18:38:13 <elnino> "sending jobs to the bank"
18:38:13 <elnino> "locking user",
18:38:13 <elnino> it sits there for a while
18:38:13 <elnino> then it says (waiting)
18:39:10 <elnino> "count not lock user", "postprocessing jobs", "resetting provider queues"
18:39:16 <elnino> "online banking import returned no transactions for the selected time period."
18:39:48 <elnino> this all occures in the "online banking connection window"
18:39:58 <elnino> s/occures/occurs
18:40:01 <warlord> You can try deleting your .banking and/or .aqbanking directories in your homedir data file.. That will remove *all* your online banking setup. Exit gnucash first.
18:40:35 <elnino> aw. really? there isn't a file for each or something?
18:41:18 <elnino> I'll take a look.
18:45:30 <PlayIt> hey quick accounting question
18:46:02 <PlayIt> The example i followed in a tutorial could possibly be wrong or I could be looking at it the wrong way
18:46:05 <PlayIt> not sure which
18:48:52 <warlord> elnino: I have no idea.
18:48:56 <warlord> I don't use those features.
18:49:22 <PlayIt> Should the capital gains field be the total before or after accounting for a comission
18:49:57 <elnino> that's ok. Im still playing around with this. I'm a bit confused how it all works. it's pretty cool though. Thanks for the program!
18:51:04 <PlayIt> for instance if Total Sale price of the stock is $3,600 and price paid for stock originally was $2,000 and comission was $100 should the capital gain be 1600 or 1500
18:51:44 <warlord> PlayIt: i believe that is locale/tax-law specific.
18:52:16 <PlayIt> right.. Im learning this for tax purposes. In general in the USA
18:52:35 <PlayIt> so income capital gains should show your net profit after all fees?
18:53:20 <PlayIt> or does having it as an expense balance it out?
18:53:34 <elnino> hmmm. I don't see .banking or .aqbanking anywhere, I'm on winxp.
18:53:49 <warlord> elnino: it'll exist in your "home dir"
18:54:01 <warlord> should be the same place that .gconf is..
18:54:35 <PlayIt> So Capital Gains field should be the actual profit I see or should the expenses:Commissions register have the fees related to the capital gains
19:02:04 <PlayIt> oh I get it now
19:02:23 <PlayIt> Its the same thing as reporting the Entire Income that you receive from your paycheck
19:02:32 <PlayIt> then you mark off the expenses for taxes / etc
19:02:55 <PlayIt> the income from a stock has a fee of a comission that i recorded in the expenses tab
19:04:55 <PlayIt> I have to report the income as Net profit + comission because I reported the expense correct? If I had left omitted the Expense:Comission entry I could have also omitted it from the Income:Capital Gain register
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21:29:37 <Patricia> looking for help on finding my "hidden accounts"
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21:34:36 <GeeAndYou> Patricia > while looking at the accounts list, View > Filter By > Other tab > check "Show hidden Accounts"
21:35:30 <Patricia> Oh how strange…the filter by was gone and now it's back…strange…thank you. I wonder what happened to it?
21:36:21 <GeeAndYou> it will only have that option when you are looking at the accounts tab. other tabs have other options
21:36:24 <GeeAndYou> np
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21:36:49 <Patricia> Oh, maybe that was my issue.
21:37:25 <Patricia> thank you for your prompt answer. I'm new at this chat - glad it works well!
21:38:23 <GeeAndYou> np. IRC has been around a long time. It is very useful. gladto see you try it out
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21:39:12 <Patricia> :)
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22:02:47 <robinraymn> I think I messed something up when I was trying to install F:Q. Now, when I start gnucash, I just get a white screen (Ubuntu 11.10)
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23:22:23 <bz_afk> Anyone here know anything about the QIF format?
23:22:44 * bz_afk is trying to understand what the Gnucash import wizard is doing ....
23:23:00 <bz_afk> In particular, it seems to think the transactions are all for one account no matter what I do with the QIF file
23:23:01 *** bz_afk is now known as bz