2012-01-31 GnuCash IRC logs
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10:34:36 <ZeiP> Is there someone here who has used Gnucash for a Finnish organisation's accounting?
10:36:40 <warlord> probably not, ZeiP .. But if you have generic questions about gnucash we can probably help. If it's a locale-specific question then you *may* be able to get help on the gnucash-user mailing list.. maybe.
10:37:39 <ZeiP> It's a bit both :) I've used Gnucash for a Finnish assocation's accounting myself, and actually I was just wondering how I could get the reports in a correct format
10:38:21 <JonathanEllis1> Is there a way to handle a credit note / refund from a vendor?
10:38:42 <ZeiP> The ”problem” is that in Finland the balance sheet and the profit & loss report are required to include both this term's numbers and last term's numbers.
10:39:13 <ZeiP> And I'd naturally like to achieve that without having to edit the reports in some way after exporting them from Gnucash :)
10:40:08 <JonathanEllis1> ZeiP: Could you edit the report options to include two years? Sounds simple but I don't know if that will give the result you want.
10:40:09 <ZeiP> If that were possible I think Gnucash would actually stand a quite good chance in at least assocations' accounting, since the currently used (Finnish, non-maintained) software doesn't do that either.
10:40:30 <ZeiP> JonathanEllis1, the point is to have the previous year as a comparison number
10:40:46 <ZeiP> So you can quickly see how much the periods differ
10:41:30 <warlord> JonathanEllis1: not in 2.4
10:42:18 <JonathanEllis1> ZeiP: Sorry. I dont actually use Profit /Loss or Balance Sheet reports so I cant be much help. Could you print two reports? One for this year and one for last year and file them both? Is that too simplistic?
10:42:24 <warlord> ZeiP: you could try a multi-column report with two instances of the BS and P&L reports. Unfortunately the existing reports don't do what you are asking. Patches always welcome.
10:42:45 <warlord> JonathanEllis1: how can you not use those reports? They are the single two most important reports we have!
10:42:49 <ZeiP> warlord, how would I go with doing the multi-column report?
10:43:15 <ZeiP> warlord, that's probably exactly what I'm looking for, but I'm not that familiar with Gnucash yet :)
10:43:22 <JonathanEllis1> warlord: OK. Thanks. Can you think of a way I can handle a tax refund from HMRC?
10:43:24 <warlord> ZeiP: Reports -> Sample & Custom -> Custom Multicolumn Report. Then edit the report options.
10:43:33 <ZeiP> warlord, thanks, I'll try!
10:43:52 <warlord> Note that there have been some issues with the multicolumn report so it *may* have issues.
10:44:00 <warlord> (it's not an oft-used report by the devs, apparently)
10:44:15 <warlord> JonathanEllis1: transaction from Expenses:Taxes -> Assets:Bank ?
10:44:21 <warlord> I dont understand the question, JonathanEllis1
10:44:41 <ZeiP> warlord, ok
10:45:02 <ZeiP> Hmh. I don't think that's what I'm looking for, damn.
10:45:07 <warlord> If it doesn't work then your best bet is going to be running two sets of reports and massaging them in something like Excel after-the-fact.
10:45:34 <warlord> ZeiP: are you sure? You can run a P&L for the current period and a P&L for the previous period "side by side".
10:45:45 <ZeiP> Yeah, that's what I'm required to do now. How difficult would it be to make a new report type (or edit the current ones to include options to include previous period's numbers)?
10:45:53 <JonathanEllis1> warlord: I dont use Profit/Loss and Balance Sheet because I am only a sole trader with a small self employed business so I just do an individual tax return which doesnt require Profit/Loss accounts or Balance Sheets. That and I dont know enough about accounting to know how to use them properly.
10:46:30 <ZeiP> warlord, well, I guess that would kinda work, but it's not the neat solutions I'm looking for ;)
10:46:35 <ZeiP> solution*
10:48:24 <warlord> ZeiP: no, it's not the neat solution. but it's what you can do now. As for "how difficult would it be" -- the answer depends on how comfortable you are with Scheme. Most of the code is already there. It would just require running it (effectively) a second time and adding a second set of columns.
10:48:52 <warlord> JonathanEllis1: How else are you supposed to make sure your accounts and in balance (BS) and tell you how much income and expense you had over the year (P&L)?
10:49:00 <JonathanEllis1> warlord: The reason I wanted to use a credit note and refund is because I want to verify my tax liability over a few years and check that they have refunded me everything they owe me and that I have paid everything I owe them. HMRC issues a credit note and then the refund follows some time later so credit notes would be a neat way of tracking that
10:49:20 <ZeiP> warlord, ok, I'll take a look into it, I'd really like for Gnucash to support that, hopefully I can make it happen and make a patch for that :)
10:50:37 <ZeiP> Geez, Scheme is ugly... :)
10:51:29 <warlord> JonathanEllis1: well, credit notes will be in 2.6
10:53:16 <JonathanEllis1> warlord: Not sure what the answer to that is. I use a report I generated that sums expenses into the right boxes to go into the tax return. I suppose its probably similar to a profit / loss report but it sums everything to where I want it which makes the tax return easier. As to balance sheet, I understand it's main purpose is to track business assetts vs liabilities. As mine is a cash business with no fixed assetts or long term lia
10:53:44 <ZeiP> JonathanEllis1, your row cut off at ”long term lia”
10:54:16 <JonathanEllis1> warlord: Great that credit notes will be in 2.6. More incentive to get my computer sorted / buy a new one so I can upgrade
10:54:27 <JonathanEllis1> warlord: As mine is a cash business with no fixed assetts or long term liabilities I have never needed to do this. As I say, I also dont know enough about accounting theory to know how to use it.
10:54:46 <warlord> JonathanEllis1: you should learn it. :) Seriously, a little "accounting 101" goes a LONG way
10:55:23 <JonathanEllis1> warlord: I'll look into it
10:58:31 <warlord> You wont regret it.
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11:01:08 <JonathanEllis1> warlord: Thanks. I think I can probably work around the lack of credit notes for now by recording manual transfers from Liabilties:Tax to Income:Tax refunds and from Liabilities:Tax to Assetts:Bank
11:07:26 <warlord> ok
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14:18:28 <slick8086> I'd like to use GNU cash manage the finances of an investment club. I'd like my club to use unit valuation. http://www.iclub.com/clubs/unit_value.asp can GNUCash do this?
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14:26:37 <warlord> slick8086: not directly, but you could make it work with some manual work.
14:27:58 <warlord> Basically, you would have one account which contains the total # of unit-shares owned by the club members. And then you would have another portfolio within the book that contains the club's investments. Every month you would need to manually update the club share price based on the value of the portfolio and # of unit shares.
14:28:03 <warlord> So you would need to do the math yourself.
14:28:38 <slick8086> thanks!
14:30:51 <slick8086> I'm not at all familiar with gnucash, is there a plugin API or module system that would allow this functionality to be added?
14:32:28 <warlord> there is a plugin API; I don't know if there are enough hooks to add this functionality.
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14:53:30 <hongli> when I try to post a new Invoice, I'm unable to select anything from the "Post to Account" combo box
14:54:15 <hongli> when I click "New" to create a "A/Receivable" account type, and I select "EUR" as currency, then the newly created account does not show up in the "Post to Account" combo box
14:54:31 <hongli> but if I select "USD" as currency, it does show up. am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?
14:58:59 <warlord> hongli: sounds like your invoice is in USD and not EUR. Which means your Customer is in USD.
15:00:26 <hongli> ah yes, that fixed it. thanks
15:03:25 <warlord> you're welcome
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15:40:30 <Joc> Is there a way to get a single report of all the sub-accounts? Under "shipping" I have "Post Office" and "UPS", I can open "UPS" and click on "Report>Account Report", I would like to get a report of all the "Shipping".
15:42:57 <Joc> the "Shipping" account is set as a placeholder.
15:46:50 <warlord> Joc: Right click on Shipping and select Open Subaccounts
15:46:56 <warlord> Then run the report
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15:47:43 <Joc> Fantastic, thanks!
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17:17:03 <warlord> @op
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17:26:52 <puck> hmmm, any thoughts on licenses for sample code? All my python code so far are based on the sample code provided by parit.ca, but because they're GPL I believe I need to retain the attribution to them, but all I've kept is the boiler plate stuff and the required functions.
17:30:43 <warlord> Hmm, I wonder why gncbot isn't responding to me
17:30:45 <warlord> @ping
17:30:45 <gncbot> pong
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17:50:28 <warlord> There we go!
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18:03:20 <andy> warlord hello. I see John is not on right now. You may be interested in the new developments in https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=724917
18:03:53 <andy> I seem to have irritated one fellow with my blunt objectivity, but it has stirred more activity, albeit as yet without success.
18:04:19 <andy> But I am nothing if not persistent, so started looking closely at all the errors. I have reduced them to a simple two:
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18:04:44 <andy> ;;; ERROR: no code for module (sw_core_utils)
18:04:45 <andy> ;;; ERROR: no code for module (sw_gnc_module)
18:04:47 <THE_GFR|WORK> hey everyone how do I see stuff I entered from december/add stuff?
18:05:08 <andy> Indeed, locate cannot find either. So what is the parent package for these - gnucash or Gnome compile? Google does not say, nor does yast2 sw_single.
18:05:18 <THE_GFR|WORK> I can't figure out how
18:05:53 <THE_GFR|WORK> this is really annoying
18:07:07 <andy> For THEGFR: I have found that googling for whatever subject I was using, with the name of the IRC channel will pop up an archive somewhere...
18:07:21 <THE_GFR|WORK> andy: I've looked around
18:09:15 <andy> Also, you might try locate irc |grep log on your own system. For me that renders
18:09:33 <THE_GFR|WORK> thats not helpful
18:10:42 <andy> well it's unknown, but the logfile is there containing everything I've seen and read. As Aristotle said, If I can't see it it doesn't exist, so the best I can give you is what you have seen and done. That is where it is.
18:11:11 <andy> see /home/(your username)/logs/irc.gimp.org_#gnucash.log
18:12:07 <andy> unless you are not on Linux, in which case I haven't a clue.
18:14:41 <THE_GFR|WORK> how do you get rid of duplicates?
18:20:54 <THE_GFR|WORK> ??
18:20:56 <THE_GFR|WORK> ??
18:20:57 <THE_GFR|WORK> how do you get rid of duplicates?
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18:26:52 <THE_GFR|WORK> how do you remove a month and re-import it?
18:27:05 <THE_GFR|WORK> how do you remove duplicate transactions
18:30:07 <THE_GFR|WORK> how do you remove duplicate transactions
18:30:09 <THE_GFR|WORK> how do you remove a month and re-import it?
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18:36:41 <warlord> andy: :)
18:36:59 <andy> :-)
18:37:01 <warlord> Hmm, those errors are generally due to a SWIG issue.
18:37:11 <THE_GFR|WORK> how the hell do I fix DULPLICTES?!
18:37:44 <warlord> THE_GFR|WORK: What interface are you using when you enter your data? Try using the View menu to reset the view dates .
18:38:00 <andy> GFR: chill out dude... none of this is life threatening...
18:38:05 <warlord> THE_GFR|WORK: try reverting to a backup file and starting over?
18:39:03 <THE_GFR|WORK> warlord: it's I do an import, then I have DUPLICATES
18:39:08 <THE_GFR|WORK> how do I NUKE THE DUPLICATES
18:39:11 * THE_GFR|WORK really frusturated
18:39:35 <andy> GFR: the help documentation is very helpful for gnucash. For example you can searchj for keywords and get a new window with just those entries. Deleting them there will delete them globlly\
18:40:03 <andy> So if you have a lot of dupes search on a keyword and the screen will show only the ones you want, then you can delete
18:40:14 <THE_GFR|WORK> andy: I want something to show duplicate entries and REMOVE THEM
18:40:40 <andy> The thought occurs how did you end up with so many dupes, but that is a different issue.
18:41:05 <andy> Mmmm sounds like a wish list. I don't know of any way to do that automagically, but then neither does Quicken, does it?
18:41:39 <THE_GFR|WORK> what happens if you do an import and get 400 dupliactes? so "I must be doing it wrong" ?
18:42:16 <andy> As for deleting a month and reconstituting, get familiar with the log files in your data or home folder. GC saves all transactions as separate log files and saves intermediate results of the whole file, automagically
18:42:28 <warlord> THE_GFR|WORK: during the import you have to tell gnucash which transactions are duplicates.
18:42:40 <andy> So if your present file is hosed you can go back and find an earlier save that was saved before the hosing.
18:42:41 <THE_GFR|WORK> warlord: and it won't let me select more than one file
18:42:42 <THE_GFR|WORK> one entry
18:42:47 <warlord> correct
18:42:52 <warlord> you can only operate on one txn at a time
18:43:07 <warlord> There is no "delete this selection of txns" function
18:43:08 <THE_GFR|WORK> so basically I have to be very carful never to have a duplicate or I'm screwed as there is no way to remove duplicates ever
18:43:22 <warlord> No.... you can absolutely remove duplicates. Just one-at-a-time.
18:43:26 <THE_GFR|WORK> what a clusterfuck
18:43:31 <THE_GFR|WORK> excuse my language
18:43:39 <warlord> ... and you should be careful to mark them as duplicates during the import process itself.
18:43:53 <warlord> Are you importing QIF or OFX?
18:44:19 <THE_GFR|WORK> QIF import, I can only select one entry as a duplicate when doing the import that way
18:46:37 <warlord> why would you have multiple duplicates, unless you've done multiple imports without cleaning up?
18:47:17 <andy> Doing a FIND report as I said by account, or date, or keyword, or whatever will reduce the number of records on the screen and will present them in a new tab (window). Deleting, even one at a time is easy, hit the delete button. The first time you have to turn off the confirmation option, but that's easy an trhen it is a one finger salute, record by record.
18:48:59 <THE_GFR|WORK> yea it would be nice to have a duplicate remover
18:49:10 <THE_GFR|WORK> I imported a month but only needed half a month or so
18:49:44 <warlord> Once it's imported there is no way to know that it's a duplicate vs two very similar transactions.
18:49:53 <warlord> (at least no "automated" way)
18:50:23 <warlord> During the import process itself you can mark a to-be-imported transaction a duplicate against an already-existing transaction. You should make use of that.
18:50:31 <warlord> Once it's imported you will have to manually delete the dupes
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18:52:13 <THE_GFR|WORK> right
18:52:13 <THE_GFR|WORK> ok
18:52:50 <THE_GFR|WORK> erll
18:52:51 <THE_GFR|WORK> well
18:52:53 <THE_GFR|WORK> screw me
18:53:00 <THE_GFR|WORK> I'm doing it all wrong
18:55:22 <Joc> warlord: you told me earlier how to "open subaccounts" and that works great, but when I select "reports>account report", I get a "General Ledger Report" instead of a "Register Report" that I normally get with a single account. The balance in the General Ledger Report does not increase with every transactions as it does under the "Shipping+" tab. For some reason I don't understand, the balance on the 3rd transaction restart instead of adding up with
18:56:40 <warlord> Joc: Hmm
18:56:44 <andy> So, back to fixing GC under openSuse 12.1. I checked my swig install. There are no devel packages offered, the current install is the latest. But I cannot find the two modules on my system, and obviously neither can GC. Any ideas on how to fix that?
18:57:04 <warlord> what version of swig?
18:57:26 <warlord> and did you do a "make maintainer-clean" or start with a clean source tree after fixing your guile issues??
18:58:50 <andy> 2.0.4-28.1. There is only the basic executable, plus debug, doc, and example files, all the same version, no -devel file
19:00:00 <warlord> that's fine -- there is no swig-devel
19:01:20 <andy> ok, thanks. hmmm... never heard of "make maintainer-clean", have been using the installer (yast2 sw_single) (which I think uses rpms from the various repositories) not consciously compiling from source.
19:01:48 <andy> So should I nuke GC, issue that command in a terminal, and try again?
19:02:49 <andy> It can't hurt to try, I suppose...
19:04:45 <Joc> warlord: I've done a screen shot of the report to show what I mean: http://joc.gaj.ca/test/shipping.png and http://joc.gaj.ca/test/shipping%20tab.png. as you can see the balance goes from 16.23, 76.98 and then 130.32, but in the report the amount shown is 53.34.
19:04:47 <warlord> andy: Okay, you just confused me. I thought you were trying to build gnucash from source?
19:05:40 <warlord> Joc: the balance in the register is NOT the running balance.
19:06:08 <Joc> ???
19:07:01 <Joc> the "shipping+" seems to me to be a running balance, which is what I want, to see the total of all shippings
19:07:33 <warlord> I would need to look at the sources to figure this out, and I dont have the bandwidth right now. Sorry, Joc.
19:07:46 <warlord> That report is supposed to do what you want. I dont know why its not.
19:08:02 <Joc> ok, I understand.
19:08:28 <andy> no, sorry, I've been being well behaved and purely doctrinal, using the openSUSE 12.1 infrastructure, which is the YaST installer, invoked from the command line with "yast2 sw_single"
19:08:48 <warlord> andy: youre not going to get gnucash working that way -- it's built wrong.
19:08:52 <andy> I tried installing the older versions from source, but 2.4.9 is mainstream doctrine.
19:09:42 <warlord> andy: and this is where you are confusing me. What do you mean by "install[ing]... from source"? To me that means "building", but clearly we're talking apples and kumquats
19:09:46 <andy> OK, then what do I do: Download the source file and compile? 2.4.8 and 2.4.7 fail when I try that
19:10:03 <andy> kumquats... :-)
19:10:09 <andy> From source I mean:
19:10:16 <warlord> a) you should do 2.4.9. and b) yes. If it fails then you dont have all the correct build dependencies installed.
19:10:22 <warlord> You wont need swig.
19:10:29 <warlord> But you will need guile-1.8 and slib
19:10:35 <warlord> and all the gnome-2 -devel packages
19:10:51 <andy> 1) download the tar.gz from wherever, extract it to a local directory, go there in a terminal and run ./configure, make, make install
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19:11:59 <andy> I haven't tried that with 2.4.9, but did with 2.4.8 and 2.4.7 and they failed with libgoffice errors
19:12:24 <andy> I DO have guile 1.8, but it has been renamed guile1
19:12:41 <andy> and also have slib
19:12:45 <warlord> ln -s guile1 /usr/bin/guile
19:12:59 <andy> AHA!
19:13:01 <warlord> basically, /usr/bin/guile needs to be 1.8
19:13:21 <andy> OK! Watch this space. Back in a bit.
19:13:26 <andy> :-)
19:13:34 <warlord> and guile-config needs to be the 1.8 version
19:13:46 <andy> roger.
19:15:56 * puck bashes head against python bindings
19:15:58 <puck> TypeError: in method 'xaccAccountGetBalanceAsOfDate', argument 2 of type 'time_t'
19:16:02 <puck> grrr
19:16:30 <warlord> puck: sorry, can't help you there.
19:17:05 <puck> fair enough
19:21:15 <puck> ah ha, no conversion for time_t in the swig file
19:23:03 * puck fixes and tests
19:23:32 <warlord> gotta run -- dinnertime
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20:24:06 <THE_GFR|WORK> how do you set your starting balance?
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20:31:57 <warlord> THE_GFR|WORK: it's a transaction from Equity:Opening Balance.
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20:34:20 <warlord> Hi benoitg
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20:36:25 <THE_GFR|WORK> warlord thanks
20:37:14 <warlord> welcome
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20:42:12 <THE_GFR|WORK> warlord: why isn't my ending balance the same as on my bank statement what did I mess up?
20:42:59 <warlord> Perhaps nothing. Most likely there are transactions that you made that haven't hit the bank in the same period. For example you wrote a check and it didn't clear.
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20:43:20 <warlord> That's fine. When reconciling just type in the date and balance from the statement and only check off the transactions that are on the statement.
20:45:28 <THE_GFR|WORK> I just downloaded the file and imported it into the program
20:45:38 <THE_GFR|WORK> .qif file
20:46:25 <warlord> downloaded from...??
20:46:34 <warlord> Quicken? Money? your bank?
20:47:19 <THE_GFR|WORK> my bank "Bank Of America" and it's a .QIF file to import into gnucash
20:47:23 <THE_GFR|WORK> quicken file I think
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20:49:00 <warlord> Got it. Personally I never import from my banks. It makes it much harder to find bank errors.
20:50:12 <THE_GFR|WORK> well, I don't know, I don't see any errors
20:50:18 <THE_GFR|WORK> I will have to manually audit
20:50:20 <THE_GFR|WORK> later on
20:50:24 <THE_GFR|WORK> I usually do though
20:51:05 <warlord> I find it easier to just enter my transactions as they occur.
20:51:17 <warlord> I keep the receipts and enter them at the end of the day or end of the week
20:51:53 <THE_GFR|WORK> yea not always possible though but yea
20:53:00 <warlord> The issue of course is if you import you will wind up with duplicates.
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20:53:28 <warlord> the qif importer is pretty good about walking you through that, but IMHO the effort to import isn't worth the effort to just enter them as they happen
21:04:59 <THE_GFR|WORK> well yea
21:05:12 <THE_GFR|WORK> but I have more money than I should... I'll figure it out
21:05:13 <THE_GFR|WORK> thanks
21:06:05 <warlord> My other recommendation: choose a starting date and ignore everything before that date.
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21:06:10 <warlord> e..g, start 1/1/12
21:06:16 <THE_GFR|WORK> I did
21:06:17 <THE_GFR|WORK> that
21:06:27 <THE_GFR|WORK> wait you mean ignore the balance I had?
21:06:31 <THE_GFR|WORK> also?
21:06:42 <THE_GFR|WORK> or no?
21:06:53 <warlord> No, you need to set the opening balances to those as of 1/1 -- EXCEPT you need to take into account any outstanding transactions.
21:07:08 <THE_GFR|WORK> yes
21:07:12 <THE_GFR|WORK> I did that
21:07:15 <warlord> For example, if you wrote a check on 12/30 and it hasn't cleared then you need to include that in your accounting (and adjust the opening balance accordingly)
21:07:26 <THE_GFR|WORK> right
21:07:32 <THE_GFR|WORK> I understand that
21:07:34 <THE_GFR|WORK> let me look
21:07:37 <THE_GFR|WORK> that's I bet what happened
21:09:02 <THE_GFR|WORK> well
21:09:34 <THE_GFR|WORK> I had a balance of 22,393.19 at the begining ( first transaction 1/3/12 ) according to the bank
21:09:53 <THE_GFR|WORK> now 1/30/12 I have a balance of 22,611.77
21:09:54 <THE_GFR|WORK> but
21:09:59 <THE_GFR|WORK> that's according to the bank
21:10:31 <THE_GFR|WORK> 22,643.25 according to GNUCASH
21:10:32 <THE_GFR|WORK> blah
21:11:18 <warlord> take a look txn by txn and see if there are txns the bank has that you dont or vice-versa
21:11:21 <THE_GFR|WORK> so I don't know why gnucash says I have more money than I should
21:11:35 <THE_GFR|WORK> right but I didn't see any
21:11:36 <warlord> maybe there was a deposit you didn't include?
21:11:52 <THE_GFR|WORK> a deposit my bank has I don't?
21:11:54 <warlord> does your bank give you a running-balance in its transaction history?
21:11:59 <THE_GFR|WORK> yes
21:12:28 <warlord> No, a deposit you have that your bank doesnt.. or a withdrawal that your bank has that you dont
21:12:43 <warlord> Okay, then go txn by txn and compare balances one by one, side by side.
21:12:56 <THE_GFR|WORK> I have 4 items marked as "processing" so I guess that's it?
21:13:03 <warlord> could be...
21:13:15 <THE_GFR|WORK> crap
21:13:33 <THE_GFR|WORK> didn't realize one transaction set is for 1/31/12 guess I didn't wait long enough
21:13:34 <THE_GFR|WORK> :\
21:13:36 <THE_GFR|WORK> ok
21:13:40 <THE_GFR|WORK> I figured I goofed
21:13:42 <THE_GFR|WORK> so thanks
21:14:02 <warlord> You're welcome.
21:14:12 <THE_GFR|WORK> needed to wait longer lol
21:14:55 <warlord> or look up one line in your register and notice that the bank balance was one line up. ;)
21:22:36 <THE_GFR|WORK> lol
21:24:46 <warlord> :)
21:26:10 <THE_GFR|WORK> thanks again bbl
21:26:25 <warlord> later
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