2012-01-30 GnuCash IRC logs

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13:11:20 <patmcardle> Hello everyone. When I send an invoice using Gnucash. I can't get the invoice to state "V.A.T." (Value Added Tax) in the box before the tax field on the invoice. It is important to me, as here in Ireland, an invoice must clearly state and identify the V.A.T. amount that is being charged. Right now, it states "Income". How can I change this to "V.A.T." please?
13:11:28 <patmcardle> Thanks for your help.
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13:13:58 <jmd> I think this question is in the FAQ.
13:15:50 <warlord> patmcardle: which Invoice Report are you using?
13:17:01 <patmcardle> fancy invoice, and a custom design with my logos etc that I've called "Invoice"
13:17:56 <warlord> patmcardle: I suspect you may need to change the fancy-invoice.scm source code to change that text.
13:21:18 <patmcardle> I have a feeling it's related to a selection I made when I was setting up invoicing. It asked me something like "which account do you want to associate with invoices?" *can't remember* But I do remember checking "Income" at some stage.
13:27:30 <patmcardle> my connection dropped. am I still here?
13:27:30 <patmcardle> Yes. I see I am.
13:27:45 <warlord> Yes, you are... I'm not sure where you would have been asked that question.
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13:29:55 <warlord> also, without seeing the results you are seeing I dont know how to suggest a fix.
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13:43:04 <user> hi, does gnucash has a mechanism to ensure integrity of entries, i.e. if an invoice was issued there is no way to edit or delete in "invisble" way (like commits in version control systems)?
13:49:48 <Joc> not sure if that's helping, but when you reconcile a transaction it makes it harder to modify the data
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13:54:32 <warlord> user: nothing can do that. period. If someone is telling you they can then they are selling snake oil. There are mechanisms to make it harder to edit/delete in "invisible" ways, but if someone wants to do it, they can find ways around any mechanism.
13:54:56 <warlord> Having said that, once you POST an invoice then the invoice cannot be edited from the UI (without unposting it), and the transaction cannot be edited from the UI.
13:55:13 <warlord> That wont stop someone from editing the data file.. Or from unposting and re-posting the invoice.
13:59:31 <user> there is no way to do it using cryptography? hashes or public keys?
14:01:07 <user> how do they achiev this in scm?
14:08:01 <warlord> in SCM they do it by broadcasting it to everyone; tampering is hard when you need to tamper with thousands of copies.
14:08:13 <warlord> I doubt you want to share your financial data with thousands of people.
14:11:52 <jmd> user, Any decent SCM will not allow you to do that.
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14:12:59 <jmd> and it's the same with financial ledgers. You can't rewrite history.
14:17:28 <warlord> The point being that the system may make it hard to do it by accident, but it cannot prevent intentional changes.
14:27:01 <user> hmm... so at least if I store my data on one central server there is no way I can manipulate the data... however I have to be always online, right?
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14:30:54 <user> sorry, got disconnected...
14:31:57 <user> did I miss the answer?...
14:33:17 <gour> nope
14:33:26 <warlord> I dont understand the question. Nor do I really understand your requirements or what you are trying to accomplish here.
14:35:13 <gour> warlord: GC is moving to git?
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14:35:24 * warlord shrugs
14:35:28 <warlord> A bunch of the devs use git.
14:35:42 <user> i try to find a way to ensure integrity of gnucash entries. deligating storage of my data to a trusted authority is also an option
14:36:07 <warlord> user: why? what's the underlying requirement here?
14:37:47 <warlord> Note that very few apps provide this. Quicken and QB certainly dont. I doubt even peachtree or sage do, either.
14:39:06 <user> if my data is stored on a server administrated not by me, can I still manipulate my data?
14:41:55 <jmd> I suppose it depends on what you mean by "administrate" and "manipulate".
14:42:26 <user> still not clear?
14:43:33 <jmd> You want to "manipulate" your data but want to ensure it's "integrity". Those are conflicting requirements.
14:46:47 <user> otherwise authorities do not recognize bookkeeping
14:47:36 <warlord> user: I still dont understand what you need.
14:48:00 <jmd> user, That's not true.
14:48:18 <user> what?
14:48:35 <warlord> user: I think you are misinterpreting the "authority's" requirements.
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14:49:36 <jmd> Gnucash is accepted as a bookkeeping ledger by many tax offices.
14:49:43 <user> closed sorce apps encode the data so you can't manipulate it
14:50:18 <jmd> You can. It's just harder.
14:51:01 <user> is there a way to achieve the same level of dificulty with gc?
14:52:16 <jmd> Yes. You could go to a friend and say "please can you encypt my accounts with gpg and NOT tell me the key"
14:53:29 <user> you need to do it after each transaction?
14:53:48 <jmd> I suppose so, yes.
14:54:42 <user> so you have to be always online... a bit of limitation but also a solution
14:55:45 <jmd> Is there anyone in the world today, who doesn't have DSL in the home?
14:56:07 <jmd> I suspect only those who don't have homes.
14:57:16 <user> :) it can happen that you have problems with connection and your client is in front of you
14:57:51 <user> waiting for you to encrypt the transaction
14:59:30 <user> any ideas for an offline protocol?
14:59:49 <jmd> It's called "email"
15:00:04 <jmd> Or even uucp
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15:04:43 <user> thank you, I'll think about it.
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15:07:09 <warlord> or even printing to a CD-ROM
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16:29:17 <tach> I think that lists.gnucash.org has an SPF/IPv6 issue. I haven't received any e-mail from the -devel or -user lists since Jan 18. Looking in my mailserver logs, I see that the messages were rejected because of SPF failures. The failures began when lists.gnucash.org switched from connecting via IPv4 to IPv6. Since lists.gnucash.org doesn't have an AAAA record, I think that's why SPF is punting things.
16:42:03 <warlord> Hmm.. Does it need a AAAA or a PTR?
16:42:24 <warlord> I need to work with linas__ to get a AAAA record set up.
16:42:29 <warlord> getting a PTR record would be MUCH harder
16:43:34 <tach> An AAAA record should be fine.
16:44:08 <warlord> Sorry about the failures. I'll try to work with linas__ to get that set up ASAP.
16:44:35 <tach> No problem, I'm just glad to see it kinda working. :-)
16:44:41 <warlord> LOL
16:44:44 <warlord> yeah.. me too :)
16:46:39 <warlord> tach: note that it would be a AAAA for code.gnucash.org, not lists.gnucash.org
16:47:46 <warlord> I've sent mail to linas__ .
16:47:53 <warlord> Hopefully we can get that handled quickly
16:49:11 <tach> warlord: yea, you're right. The MX is set to lists., but the server HELO's as code.
16:49:28 <warlord> lists is a cname
16:49:46 <warlord> anyways, I'll try to get the AAAA into there.
16:50:51 <tach> Thanks.
16:51:11 <tach> BTW, the IPv6 address of that machine is nifty.
16:52:31 <warlord> :-D
16:52:36 <warlord> Glad you like it :)
16:53:00 <warlord> It's not nearly as cool as face:b00c
16:58:18 <Simon> there is one way you could make manipulating accounts more difficult... put the gnucash xml into a git repository
16:58:23 <Simon> at least then it's all tracked
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17:29:57 <andy> Hello all. I have posted a bug to bugzilla, but it has been in the news for several days. Wondering if anyone has found a fix? Here are the particulars:
17:30:35 <andy> My Bug submission to the Gnome bugzilla:https://bugzilla.gnome.org/process_bug.cgi
17:31:03 <andy> Bug 669069 - GnuCash crashes on start under openSUSE 12.1
17:31:29 <andy> A full description of the problem: http://tinyurl.com/89eu5mo
17:31:35 <andy> Thanks in advance.
17:33:57 <warlord> andy: gnucash 2.4 does not work with guile 2.0. You need to downgrade to guile 1.8. This is a Suse problem -- you should contact them
17:34:08 <john> andy: Sorry, that's OpenSuse's fault, not ours. Go pester them.
17:35:18 <warlord> andy: and FYI, I do plan to close that bug as "NOTGNOME" because it's not a gnucash bug. Arguably the guile-2 support is an enhancement request but it's not going to be fixed in 2.4
17:35:33 <warlord> (unless john gets to closing it first) ;)
17:35:45 <john> andy: Sorry, I didn't scan your name fast enough... and I didn't connect the OpenSuse problem when you brought it up on the other forum the other day.
17:36:47 <andy> john, no problem, you are just being your normal cheerful self... >:-)
17:37:03 <john> :-0
17:37:14 <andy> I'll search about on openSuse and see what it takes to downgrade guile. Thanks for the clarification
17:37:21 <warlord> still, it is Suse's problem and they need to fix it.
17:37:57 <andy> Roger concur. As john can testify, I'm a fixit kind of person, so just knowing where the problem lies is helpful.
17:38:58 <warlord> fair enough.
17:39:16 <warlord> as for the goffice issue -- it looks like you don't have the -devel package installed
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17:52:48 <andy> warlord hi. I have updated the novell bug on this to include your and my information: https://bugzilla.novell.com/process_bug.cgi
17:53:07 <andy> It is a very long bug post, so scroll to the bottom to see my comments if you wish.
17:53:22 <andy> I also have checked both guile and libgoffice installations.
17:55:10 <andy> guile 1.8 *does exist on my system, except that it is now called guile1, (v. 1.8.8-12.1) as well as libguile 17 (same version) and libguile1-devel (which is not installed)
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17:56:15 <andy> How hard would it be for me to find wherever in source guile is cited and rename it to guile 1, or alternatively, nuke guile 2.0.2-7.4.1 and rename guile1 to guile?
17:57:09 <andy> OTOH, not sure what 2.4.9 does for me that 2.4.8 doesn't...
17:57:33 <john> andy: All the magic is in pkg-config, at least for building. Once the eejits at OpenSuse linked with the wrong lib, you're stuck.
17:58:11 <andy> As for the libgoffice-devel package, it does not exist on my default openSUSE 12.1, so for clarity sake, are you saying I need to install libgoffice-devel or guile-devel?
17:58:20 <warlord> andy: both
17:58:27 <warlord> you need *all* the -devel packages
17:58:31 <john> But to get built, first make sure that you have all of the "devel" packages installed, then just change the names of the guile pc files in /usr/lib/pkgconfig.
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17:59:16 <andy> OK, sounds like fun, I'll let you know here or there if it works...
17:59:23 <andy> Thanks for the info, cheers to all
17:59:45 <warlord> andy: on fedora I would use yum-builddep gnucash
18:00:18 <andy> I've been thinking of moving (back) to fedora, but I like KDE... :-(
18:00:49 <john> From the GC FAQ, for Suse it's `zypper build-deps-install gnucash`
18:01:59 <andy> OK, thanks again, obviously this is new, so shall take it slowly...
18:02:18 <warlord> Fedora has a KDE spin.
18:02:42 <andy> :-) one thing at a time...
18:12:19 <warlord> he
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18:36:25 <andy> zypper build-deps-install gnucash... That does not work: zypper -h suggests
18:36:28 <andy> source-install, si Install source packages and their build dependencies....
18:39:36 <andy> zypper si gnucash runs, but now I have to reboot.
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18:50:01 <john> warlord: Derek, Bostjan Vilfan (bug 668891) is still having trouble getting GC to launch as an unpriv user on Win32. slibcat is getting created when he starts as an admin the first time, but even after that it won't start for him as unpriv. Is there anything besides $HOME that you can think of that GC might be trying to write to before it opens the account file?
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19:19:58 <andy> > [Monday, January 30, 2012] [17:57:33] <john> andy: All the magic is in pkg-config, at least for building. Once the eejits at OpenSuse linked with the wrong lib, you're stuck.
19:21:44 <warlord> john: I honestly have no idea. I think historically on windows we've always required admin, but I've never really taken a front seat on the windows port.
19:22:57 <andy> mmm. how does one read/edit that? I find /usr/bin/pkg-config. Try to open in kate, it is a binary. Try to run it it complains I have to specify a package. Specify gnucash, nothing happens
19:23:02 <andy> Time to call it a day.
19:23:03 <john> warlord: Admin is required to install, but GC *should* run (and does most of the time) for an unpriv after installation.
19:23:30 <andy> I'll install the windows version to do my work and pursue this mystery separately. Thanks again for all the help.
19:23:51 <john> andy: Pkg-config is a binary, but the files it works on, in /usr/lib/pkgconfig, are text files.
19:24:33 <john> andy: Re: Windows, OK as long as you're an admin user!
19:24:54 <john> Oh, and paste doesn't work in 2.4.9 on Win32.
19:25:21 <andy> No sweat... I use VBox to run Windows XP when I must, which is very very seldom.
19:25:38 <john> OK
19:25:40 <andy> Paste is no issue...
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19:33:00 <andy> hmmm. A scrunch of .pc files in /usr/lib/pkgconfig including guile-1.8.pc and guile-2.0.pc, but no gnucash.pc
19:36:58 <john> No, Gnucash is an application, not a library, so we don't have a pc file
19:38:14 <john> Pc files are for configuring compilation of programs or other libraries which depend upon the library the pc file belongs to.
19:39:21 <john> Since you have guile-1.8.pc, when you build gnucash it will use pkg-config to find it and configure itself to link against the right library.
19:39:30 <john> Time to go make dinner.
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20:23:33 <collegekid8> what do you credit under the direct costs of a service company?
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20:32:30 <warlord> andy: ignore pkg-config -- it's something gnucash uses to find dependencies. You can ignore it. read the README files and install all the -devel packages so that ./configure works.
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20:33:01 <warlord> ... use the gnucash tarball (instead of SVN) so you have an already-built configure file so it'll be easier to track down the dependencies.
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