2012-01-04 GnuCash IRC logs

00:40:37 *** arnotixe has quit IRC
00:43:02 *** Hardy_ has joined #gnucash
00:48:13 *** Hardy has quit IRC
00:48:28 *** Hardy_ is now known as Hardy
02:45:43 *** Fabzgy has joined #gnucash
03:06:20 *** scientes has joined #gnucash
03:10:59 *** gour has joined #gnucash
03:16:53 *** scientes has quit IRC
03:22:27 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
04:27:48 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
04:27:52 *** Krzysiek_K has left #gnucash
04:30:27 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
04:35:25 *** Hardy has quit IRC
04:36:32 *** Hardy__ has joined #gnucash
04:36:34 *** Hardy__ is now known as Hardy
04:39:59 *** Fabzgy has quit IRC
04:41:10 *** Hardy has quit IRC
04:56:58 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
04:56:58 *** gncbot sets mode: +o andi5
05:24:52 *** Krzysiek_K1 has joined #gnucash
05:28:00 *** fDavid1 has joined #gnucash
05:30:16 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
05:32:31 *** fDavid1 has quit IRC
05:34:12 *** fDavid has quit IRC
05:44:44 *** Krzysiek_K1 has left #gnucash
05:48:04 *** ziggyfish has joined #gnucash
05:48:56 <ziggyfish> Quick question what is the best way to edit an invoice template in gnucash, I have good knowledge of Programming
05:52:29 <ziggyfish> all I need it to do is add a note about bank details
06:05:15 *** ErKa has quit IRC
06:05:45 <Takyoji> I think I even asked it myself earlier
06:06:30 <ziggyfish> gnu cash does everything I need except for doing proper invoicing
06:06:47 <Takyoji> because there are template files that you can edit
06:07:07 <Takyoji> and then scripts written in Scheme or something I think, which does the processing part.
06:07:15 * Takyoji checks
06:07:32 <ziggyfish> I've heard that you can use eguile, but it doesn't tell you how to.
06:07:49 <Takyoji> http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Modify-Invoice-Templates-td1433726.html
06:07:58 <Takyoji> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Custom_Reports_Using_Eguile#Tax_Invoice
06:07:59 <ziggyfish> do you run a command, or do you simply override the old version
06:08:13 <Takyoji> and I was recommended for using "Tax Invoice" for such
06:08:21 <Takyoji> I
06:08:31 <Takyoji> I'm simply another user, so I don't authoritatively know
06:09:22 <ziggyfish> where do you create a "Tax Invoice"
06:09:40 <Takyoji> The template-file seems to be simple HTML/CSS with inline Scheme code.
06:11:20 <ziggyfish> I can generate an invoice but not a tax invoice
06:13:02 <Takyoji> Reports > Business > Tax Invoice, I believe
06:13:33 <Takyoji> alternately, you may just be able to find the template file for printing invoices in general
06:13:39 <Takyoji> again, I'm not sure
06:14:58 <Takyoji> Alternately, you could check back several hours later when the main support folk returns.
06:15:14 <Takyoji> Usually warlord, specifically.
06:16:07 <ziggyfish> when is that?
06:16:45 <ziggyfish> I'll return back in about 1 hour
07:32:28 *** fell has joined #gnucash
07:32:28 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell
07:37:39 *** fellen has quit IRC
07:52:32 *** Jimraehl1 has left #gnucash
07:53:16 *** kpreid has quit IRC
08:15:10 *** ziggyfish has left #gnucash
08:29:27 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
08:42:53 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
08:54:43 *** fbond has joined #gnucash
09:12:41 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
09:24:57 *** Krzysiek_K1 has joined #gnucash
09:26:35 *** Mer|in has joined #GnuCash
09:30:08 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
09:48:53 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
10:08:52 *** Krzysiek_K1 has left #gnucash
10:11:22 *** lesshaste has joined #gnucash
10:11:39 <lesshaste> how do I just plot a graph of the amount of money in my account over the year?
10:13:06 <warlord> lesshaste: I do not belive we have a report that will graph that.
10:13:16 <lesshaste> oh :(
10:13:27 <lesshaste> for personal finances it seems to be the basic thing to do
10:13:52 <lesshaste> ok.. how do I view the transactions grouped by description?
10:13:59 <lesshaste> I am trying to do my tax return
10:15:47 <warlord> Really? I tend not to care about my actual bank balance, but rather about how much I'm earning and spending.
10:16:13 <warlord> Grouped by description for a single expense account? Or ...???
10:18:54 <warlord> I'm not sure why taxes would care about whether you spent groceries at Publix or Kroger, for example. Just the total of Expenses:Groceries
10:24:06 *** zaubaer has joined #gnucash
10:25:04 <lesshaste> warlord, grouped by description for a single account
10:25:20 <lesshaste> warlord, I need to specify what I spent money on.. this is for UK taxes
10:25:26 <lesshaste> related to a business
10:26:02 <lesshaste> ok I worked out sort by description :)
10:27:00 <warlord> lol. But it wont sum it by description. Still, I'm wondering if you're doing something wrong if you have to do this -- the 'what you spent money on' is why you have multiple Expense accounts. E.g. Expenses:Groceries v. Expenses:Utilities:Internet
10:29:13 <gour> warlord: Big Brother?
10:29:34 <warlord> gour: ??
10:30:52 <gour> warlord: Big Brother wants to know in details how we spend our money :-)
10:31:48 <warlord> gour: sure, but again, they only care that you spent $1000 on groceries, not how much you spent at Publix v. Kroger v. Target v. the corner farm stand.
10:32:25 <warlord> If you find that you have to split apart the numbers from an expense account to figure out your taxes, then you're entering your data incorrectly and should probably have multiplle accounts.
10:32:31 <lesshaste> warlord, yes but to do that I have to go through every item and classify it
10:32:43 <lesshaste> warlord, sadly it is from my online bank
10:32:52 <warlord> lesshaste: yes, which you should do when you enter them into GnUCash.
10:32:54 <lesshaste> warlord, that then appears unclassified in gnucash
10:32:57 <gour> warlord: who knows...Big Brother may tax different stores accordingly ;)
10:33:04 <lesshaste> warlord, this is the point I am at
10:33:08 <lesshaste> there are thousands of them :)
10:33:10 <warlord> So? When you import them you classify them! Gnucash has tools to help you do that.
10:33:51 <warlord> gour: unlikely. and if so, then you will learn to separate them for the following year.
10:34:19 <warlord> lesshaste: well, now you know for 2012 to spend the time to separate them out! It's worth the few extra minutes each import to save you hours and hours when you have to do your taxes.
10:34:40 <lesshaste> :) thanks mom
10:35:31 <lesshaste> I really don't find this intuitive.. I want to sum transactions.. so I click on the top one and shift click on the bottom to select them.. but it doesn't work
10:35:50 <lesshaste> how do you select a range of transactions to sum them?
10:36:08 <warlord> You dont
10:36:18 <warlord> You sum them by putting them into the same account.
10:36:22 <lesshaste> grr
10:36:34 <warlord> That's the whole POINT of accounts.
10:36:38 <warlord> GnuCash is not a spreadsheet.
10:36:44 <warlord> Please dont treat it as such.
10:37:11 <warlord> I'm sorry this isn't the answer you want.
10:37:44 <lesshaste> I am trying to treat it like a spreadsheet
10:37:59 <lesshaste> so every single place I spend my money goes into a different account?
10:38:17 <lesshaste> if I want to know how much I spend supermarket X, I need to have an account for supermarket X?
10:38:35 <warlord> lesshaste: yep.
10:38:41 <warlord> But generally you dont need to know that.
10:38:41 <lesshaste> oh dear :)
10:38:45 <lesshaste> I do!
10:38:49 <lesshaste> for my taxes
10:38:55 <lesshaste> well not supermarket X :)
10:39:03 <lesshaste> but I do need to know similar things
10:39:05 <lesshaste> not to worry
10:39:12 <lesshaste> I will try a spreadsheet next time :)
10:39:13 <warlord> There is one way to sum txns.
10:39:34 <warlord> Run a search, get the set of txns you want to sum up, then run a Register Report.
10:40:05 <warlord> What kind of "similar things" do you need? LIke I said before, you might need to say how much you spent on Internet fees, but they wouldn't care which ISP you use.
10:40:30 <lesshaste> warlord, right.. so I need to know rent, building work, parking, transport etc.
10:41:21 <warlord> Right, Hense: Expenses:Rent, Expenses:Auto:Parking, etc
10:41:25 *** jmd has joined #gnucash
10:41:27 <lesshaste> ok last question
10:41:40 <lesshaste> how do I search for transactions with values between x and y?
10:41:45 <warlord> That's EXACTLY what expense accounts are for! (Quicken called them "Categories")
10:41:59 <warlord> Amount > x and Amount < y
10:42:14 <warlord> (multiple search criteria)
10:44:41 *** zaubaer has left #gnucash
10:45:34 <lesshaste> thx
10:45:41 <lesshaste> seems to be "credits and debits"
10:45:57 <lesshaste> value has credits and debits...
10:47:47 <warlord> okay
11:01:22 <warlord> gotta run. BIAB
11:01:29 *** warlord has quit IRC
11:06:23 *** lesshaste has quit IRC
11:11:39 *** jmd has quit IRC
11:24:05 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
11:35:53 *** jmd has joined #gnucash
11:41:57 *** linas_ has joined #gnucash
11:41:57 *** linas__ has quit IRC
11:48:05 *** linas__ has joined #gnucash
11:48:05 *** linas_ has quit IRC
11:50:32 *** Krzysiek_K has left #gnucash
11:57:57 *** mfilipe has joined #gnucash
11:58:20 *** mfilipe has left #gnucash
11:58:23 *** mfilipe has joined #gnucash
11:58:39 <mfilipe> is there any way to save reports in gnucash file (sqlite3)?
12:18:18 *** evo has joined #gnucash
12:21:02 *** evo has quit IRC
12:22:06 *** linas__ has quit IRC
12:22:34 *** linas__ has joined #gnucash
12:42:54 *** evo has joined #gnucash
12:43:52 <evo> warlord + lesshaste: There will be a net worth linchart in the next release.
12:45:11 <evo> ahem: line chart
12:53:08 *** andi5 has quit IRC
13:10:36 *** Jimraehl1 has quit IRC
13:12:54 *** markjenkinsparit has joined #gnucash
13:20:57 *** ErKa has quit IRC
13:21:55 <jmd> I wish the gnucash gui would use the normal widget styles for its fg/bg instead of rolling its own. In some theme engines the text is unreadable.
13:26:05 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
13:39:38 <jmd> What's the best way to "close" an account?
14:02:20 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
14:02:21 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
14:12:49 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
14:13:54 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
14:14:03 *** Krzysiek_K has left #gnucash
14:23:00 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
14:37:30 *** Krzysiek_K has left #gnucash
14:45:00 <warlord> Hmm.. Apparently I had some emails from November 19th stuck on my laptop; they just got flushed now. I wonder why sendmail didn't flush my queue?
14:47:25 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
14:47:29 *** Krzysiek_K has left #gnucash
14:48:34 *** Takyoji has quit IRC
14:56:07 <jmd> Hidden accounts still appear in the comboboxes. Is that a bug?
14:58:12 <warlord> depends who you ask. hidden hides from the CoA, but to keep out of comboboxes select placeholder.
15:01:48 *** mfilipe has quit IRC
15:29:24 <gour> sendmail? that is still alive?
15:35:13 <warlord> of course
15:37:05 * gour isn't m4 fan :-)
15:37:23 <jmd> warlord, What do you mean "select placeholder" ?
15:38:45 <warlord> jmd: make the account a placeholder account.
15:39:35 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
15:39:51 <daedeloth> greetings
15:40:10 <jmd> I thought placeholder accounts could only have subaccounts?
15:40:56 <daedeloth> as announced earlier, I'm planning to write my own web version of gnucash or something that has at least a tiny resemblence to it.
15:41:11 <daedeloth> and I was wondering if you guys had any tips on what (not) to do :)
15:41:42 <warlord> jmd: well, placeholder means you cannot add new txns into it.. so it gets removed from the dropdown lists
15:42:00 <warlord> daedeloth: start from scratch writing a webapp
15:42:44 <daedeloth> yea, that's what I'm planning to do
15:43:02 <daedeloth> but I was wondering about storage in database etc
15:43:26 <warlord> daedeloth: no, you asked what (not) to do. That was a "not"
15:43:31 <daedeloth> aaah, ok
15:43:52 <daedeloth> well, the thing is that I want a web app
15:43:55 <daedeloth> and I don't like anything I found so far
15:44:23 <warlord> Why do you want a webapp?
15:44:25 <jmd> warlord, Thanks. ("placeholder" is rather misleading termin IMO)
15:44:41 <jmd> daedeloth, What exactly do you mean a "web app"?
15:44:46 <daedeloth> well, I believe webapps are the future and I like the idea of being able to do my accounts everywhere
15:44:47 <warlord> jmd: perhaps.. i didnt come up with it.
15:44:50 <daedeloth> web app as in runs in a browser
15:46:13 <jmd> The application runs in a browser, or the application runs on a server with a browser accessing it over a network?
15:46:20 <daedeloth> the later :)
15:46:21 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
15:47:16 <daedeloth> so, what i was thinking about is performance
15:47:32 <daedeloth> so I was thinking about how to store the accounts and the transactions
15:47:39 <daedeloth> I've decided to go for mysql, since I always go for mysql
15:47:41 <warlord> all webapp performance sucks. (well, not really, but it can suck tremendously)
15:47:54 <daedeloth> but I was wondering, does gnucash store a subtotal for transactions?
15:48:05 <daedeloth> because in the webapp that is going to be necesarry
15:49:41 <gour> daedeloth: my tip is similar to warlord, don't do it, but fix whatever you don't like in GC, remember that GC is not young app, lot of hours is poured into it and by the time you finish your web app, it might be that desktop apps are 'future'
15:50:20 <warlord> no.. it does not store subtotals.
15:50:57 <daedeloth> well, the thing is, in order to change gnucash to my needs I would have to learn C. And for some reason I think that I could do a very basic version with everything I need in a relative short time
15:51:03 <daedeloth> if I know the language good enough
15:51:15 <daedeloth> don't get me wrong, I love gnucash
15:51:29 <gour> daedeloth: there is python API now...you can also learn scheme ;)
15:51:30 <daedeloth> but the fact that it does not run in my browser is, for me, an issue
15:52:03 <daedeloth> well not really an issue, just ... a nice to have
15:52:08 <warlord> seriously? My browser crashes all the fricking time. I HATE webapps.
15:52:25 <daedeloth> well, I'm at the point that all my stuff is on the web
15:52:34 <daedeloth> I don't even use a word processor anymore
15:53:31 <gour> strange..but take a look at gtk+s broadway back-end - http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/gtk-32-will-let-you-run-any-application.html
15:53:31 <warlord> And as soon as google thinks you did something wrong, *bam*, you lose all access to all your data on their servers.
15:53:51 <daedeloth> yes, I udnerstand that, but I'm planning to go open source and not put everything on my servers
15:54:12 <daedeloth> so anyway, do you have any reasoning behind not keeping a subtotal in the database?
15:54:21 <gour> me is reading about GC in order to master it
15:54:38 <warlord> because gnucash is not a DB app.
15:54:48 <warlord> The DB backend is just a data store.
15:54:55 <daedeloth> aren't you moving to mysql / sqlite?
15:56:31 <warlord> Slowly.. But XML is still the primary data store, and at this point the DB backend's only redeaming feature is that it protects against data loss by committing every change as its made instead of requiring a full save at the end of your session.
15:56:48 <warlord> I dont expect gnucash to be a "DB" app for a long long LONG time.
15:56:58 <warlord> It will require completely re-architecting the internals.
15:57:11 <daedeloth> hm, ok
15:57:35 <daedeloth> well I think I'll have to go for storing the subtotal, large accounts will otherwise crash
15:57:54 <daedeloth> I guess the only thing I'll have to keep in mind that as soon as something changes the order, I'll have to recalculate all later subtotals
15:58:05 <warlord> Other than not running in a browser, what is it about gnucash you dont like?
15:58:15 <warlord> yep, that's very true.
15:58:22 <daedeloth> a couple of things, but some might be because I'm not an expert user
15:58:35 * Simon really doesn't like the DB's complete lack of proper data types or relational data :/ unless that has changed since I last looked...
15:58:51 <daedeloth> one thing is that my VAT calculations are very manual at the moment, I can't seem to find a way to catch my sales for a given period of time
15:58:56 <warlord> Simon: it has not, because as I said gnucash is not a DB App
15:59:12 <daedeloth> the other thing is the invoice design
15:59:19 <Simon> I did think about creating some views to parse gnucash' text data to real tables
15:59:42 <Simon> although a DB still can't ensure a transaction balances
16:00:57 <warlord> Simon: this is why we require you to use the GnuCash API to enter new data.
16:01:19 <gour> daedeloth: i know that, at least theoretically, you can design invoic as you like
16:02:23 <daedeloth> well I've taken a look at it and it was ... complicated
16:03:43 <daedeloth> so, if we'd put gnucash data in a database, just the bare functionality, I'm thinking about 3 tables, accounts, transactions and transaction-elements. A transaction must always be neutral (obviously).
16:04:10 <daedeloth> also, I'm planning to ignore the whole credit and debet naming, that's just fancy words for plus and minus, right?
16:04:21 <daedeloth> (yes, I'm not a professional accountant :p)
16:04:34 <gour> daedeloth: i assume that once you (or hopefully myself) tweak invoice per your desire, that's it...no need to change it every week, right
16:04:58 <daedeloth> yes
16:05:05 <daedeloth> but still
16:05:14 <gour> i'm not so sure taht accounting apps can go with just + & - naming
16:05:47 <daedeloth> well yea in the interface it's required, but as for data storage it's not important, right?
16:05:54 <daedeloth> (except for your account types)
16:06:39 *** jmd has quit IRC
16:08:21 <warlord> daedeloth: one issue is that in some account types a debit is an increase, and in others a debit is a decrease.
16:08:52 <daedeloth> yes, true, but that's not represented in the way you store it, no,
16:08:53 <daedeloth> ?
16:10:35 <warlord> no, not particularly, and indeed we store the amounts as +/- values, such that the sum of all splits on a txn == 0
16:11:26 <warlord> are you thinking about mutliple curencies or commodities?
16:11:38 <daedeloth> aha, yes, interesting. I completely forgot about those
16:11:50 <daedeloth> how do you handle those in gnucash? I don't have experience with them
16:11:58 <warlord> poorly. ;)
16:12:24 <daedeloth> I have no idea how to handle that actually :/
16:12:39 <daedeloth> I don't see how any software would be able to handle it
16:12:59 <warlord> it can be handled, but you have to think through all the issues very carefully...
16:13:43 <warlord> daedeloth: listen, there have been tens of man-years of effort put into gnucash. it's not perfect, but if you think you can get sometihng as fully featured in a few man-months you're deluding yourself.
16:14:03 <daedeloth> I was thinking in man-days actually
16:14:12 <daedeloth> but again, the goal is not to clone gnucash, I'll never have all it's functionality
16:14:56 <daedeloth> and I really love gnucash, been using it for 2 years now
16:16:03 <warlord> if you can get something done from scratch in days then either technology has changed significantly in the last decade or you're a significantly better programmer than I. It took me months just to get the initial business features implemented.
16:17:28 <gour> daedeloth: if i'd use GC for two years, i'd learn howto tweak invoices beyond my imagination ;)
16:17:49 <gour> warlord: lol
16:17:51 <daedeloth> well, first goal is to have accounts and transactions, managing those, next step is invoices and linking those to transactions and the last step is VAT calculations, which have to be done by april 21 ;)
16:18:35 <warlord> what kinds of vat calculations do you need, and why can't you get that info from gnucash? Didn't you set up your VAT taxtables for your invoices?
16:18:46 <daedeloth> no, they are set up
16:18:51 <gour> good luck, you just didn't mention april 21st of which decade :-)
16:19:00 <warlord> gour: lol
16:19:08 <daedeloth> but is there a feature to get the sale total for a given tax rate?
16:19:37 <daedeloth> gour, well, I think I can't skip declarations ;)
16:19:49 <warlord> How many tax rates do you have?
16:19:59 <gour> daedeloth: seriously, i'm sure GC can handle very well small businesses, so VAT calcualation is definitely not a question for GC
16:20:01 <daedeloth> 3 I think
16:20:44 <daedeloth> well I can very easily see how much I need to pay since that's collected in a seperate account for every rate
16:20:56 <daedeloth> but the problem is that I also have to provide the sale total
16:22:03 <warlord> do you have different accounts for each rate?
16:22:11 <daedeloth> yea
16:22:20 <daedeloth> not sale accounts though
16:22:22 <warlord> ah, the Find Transaction where account = TaxRate1
16:22:41 <warlord> ... that should give you a list of all transactions where one split is in the TaxRate1 account
16:22:51 <gour> warlord: do you recommend Basic Ledger view for the beginning?
16:23:13 <warlord> gour: yes, it's more like a check register.
16:23:33 <gour> warlord: ta
16:23:54 <daedeloth> hm, ok, I didn't know that
16:24:00 <warlord> imho the key, however, is to always work from your asset or liability accounts, and not from income/expense accounts.
16:24:13 <daedeloth> but I didn't even know you could look for transactions really
16:24:40 <warlord> really? that functionality has been there for over a decade!
16:24:49 <daedeloth> where is it? :p
16:25:17 <warlord> Edit -> Find
16:25:23 <daedeloth> aha
16:25:24 <warlord> or C-F
16:25:50 <gour> daedeloth: save time, learn GC and help improving it ;)
16:26:03 <gour> that what we've decided :-)
16:26:32 <gour> *that's
16:26:43 <daedeloth> hm well actually I do have seperate income accounts for the tax rates as well
16:26:52 <daedeloth> so I forgot what my problem was
16:27:35 <warlord> lol
16:27:44 <gour> daedeloth: maybe there is none
16:28:00 <warlord> lol
16:28:07 <daedeloth> ah! I remember
16:28:09 <daedeloth> it's expenses
16:28:25 <daedeloth> so my 0% vat expenses and 21% vat expenses
16:28:29 <daedeloth> I had to get the totals for those
16:28:45 <daedeloth> the 3-monthly totals (which also isn't very easy to figure out)
16:28:52 <warlord> Do all expenses fall under either 0% or 21%?
16:29:01 <daedeloth> yes
16:29:19 <warlord> well, then, same suggestion as above. Find -> Account = 21%Expense
16:29:54 <daedeloth> yes, but that doesn't give me a total
16:30:04 <warlord> From there you can find the total 21%expenses in that period, and then subtract from total expenses to compute 0%
16:30:05 <daedeloth> but I agree, it's easier to find the accounts :)
16:30:15 <daedeloth> yes, but see, that's manual labour :p
16:30:24 <warlord> The total comes from the Account Report over the Find results
16:30:57 <daedeloth> hm? I don't see where I cna find the total
16:31:15 <warlord> I just had this same conversation with someone before -- if you're finding that you need to break apart accounts to sum portions of accounts, it means that your accounts are not set up correctly.
16:31:47 <daedeloth> yea, that's what I thoght last semester
16:31:53 <daedeloth> that this year I'd split up those accounts
16:32:00 <daedeloth> but that would give me:
16:32:04 <warlord> this year meaning 2012?
16:32:08 <daedeloth> yea
16:32:19 <daedeloth> but that would give me:
16:32:25 <gour> warlord: was there any update to eguila in recent (6 or so) months?
16:32:30 <gour> *eguile
16:32:44 <warlord> gour: i dont think so.
16:32:57 <daedeloth> expenses -> diverse -> telecommunication -> webshosting -> 21%
16:33:02 <daedeloth> so that would basically double all my expense accounts
16:33:30 <warlord> daedeloth: yes, it would, but if you need to have separate totals it's the best way to do it.
16:33:46 <daedeloth> yes, in gnucash terms it is the best way
16:33:54 <warlord> Or you could do it as expenses:21%:...
16:33:54 <gour> warlord: do you still recommend using eguile to tweak reports (invoices)?
16:34:03 <daedeloth> but since these numbers are only meant for the tax office and are actually not a part of the accounts, it sounds like meta data to me
16:34:12 <warlord> gour: if the Tax invoice report is what you want, then yes, tweak the template
16:34:38 <warlord> daedeloth: maybe, maybe not. The Tax office is the primary consumer of your data.
16:34:39 <gour> warlord: that eguile-based report, right?
16:34:41 <daedeloth> actually I'm not allowed to do that, I can only freely add child accounts
16:34:44 <warlord> gour: yes
16:34:48 <gour> good
16:34:59 <warlord> daedeloth: what do you mean "not allowed to do that"?
16:35:21 <daedeloth> well I have this account setup that we are forced to use
16:35:32 <daedeloth> minimal accounts or something
16:35:38 <warlord> "forced"? Someone is holding a gun to your head?
16:35:49 <gour> school?
16:35:51 <daedeloth> well actually I'm not forced to do anything since I'm a simple freelancer, but anything bigger than me is forced to use this system
16:36:02 <daedeloth> no, when asked we must be able to provide our numbers in that system
16:36:28 <daedeloth> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genormaliseerd_rekeningstelsel
16:36:31 <daedeloth> this is it (in dutch)
16:36:39 <warlord> daedeloth: and it's easy enough to do that, because you ARE using the system; just breaking apart the 21% v. 0% amounts.
16:36:50 <daedeloth> yes, we are allowed to make sub accounts
16:36:58 <daedeloth> but we cannot do 21% -> expenses -> ...
16:37:04 <warlord> I dont see why not
16:37:05 <daedeloth> we can do expenses -> bla -> bla -> 21%
16:37:11 <daedeloth> because the totals wouldn't match :)
16:37:17 <warlord> What do you mean?
16:37:39 <warlord> When you add the 21% and 0% the totals would definitely match
16:37:56 <daedeloth> well I would have to manually add 0% -> expenses -> services -> webhosting with the 21% version
16:38:59 <daedeloth> so I agree with expenses -> services -> 0%
16:39:08 <daedeloth> and expenses -> services -> 21%
16:39:19 <daedeloth> (add "webhosting" between services and %) :p
16:39:28 <daedeloth> but still, that doubles the number of accounts
16:39:33 <daedeloth> not really a problem, but still annoying to setup
16:39:35 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
16:39:49 <gour> daedeloth: you believe that GC cannot do math properly?
16:39:59 <daedeloth> no, no, I'm not saying that
16:40:14 <daedeloth> I'm just saying that I would have to do it manually if I get an inspection
16:40:29 <gour> warlord: do you trust GC (xml) storage or do you advice to keep data under dvcs (i'd use hg)
16:40:35 <daedeloth> since my numbers in gnucash would not be what the inspection wants
16:41:08 <warlord> Well, it depends what they are looking for. You can write a report that would combine them together.
16:41:27 <daedeloth> yea, I never really got to report writing either to be honest :)
16:43:03 <warlord> That's a MAJOR piece of the puzzle
16:43:31 <daedeloth> you mean to write in gnucash or write in the webapp?
16:43:43 <warlord> either
16:44:01 <warlord> But I think writing the report(s) you need in gnucash would be less effort than creating a whole new application.
16:45:01 <daedeloth> yes, but it's adding up. Learning to write reports, double the amount of accounts, learning how to style my invoices so that they look acceptable
16:46:05 <warlord> You would still need the same level of account separation in your own design.
16:46:27 <warlord> you would still need to write up a pretty invoice. and you would still need to write reports.
16:46:33 <daedeloth> not true, I can simply filter on tax rate and create a custom report
16:46:46 <warlord> in gnucash -- you can take the Tax Invoice and modify the template
16:47:43 <warlord> but yes, you would have to write a report to sum up the tax rate totals. I dont know if the transaction report will do it.
16:47:55 <warlord> (although you MIGHT be able to tweak it)
16:48:05 <daedeloth> how are reports done in gnucash actually?
16:48:15 <warlord> they are scheme scriptlets
16:48:49 <daedeloth> well I was more thinking in the lines of a nice gui where you can set rules and filters
16:49:25 <warlord> wow, and all in a few days?
16:49:31 <warlord> You are a better man than I
16:49:45 <daedeloth> nah that was more the finalized product ;) in a few years
16:50:41 <daedeloth> but if I can set the rules in mysql by the end of march, I'll be very happy
16:53:11 <gour> "dream, sweat dreams..."
16:53:26 <daedeloth> well I'll surely invite every one here to beta test if I ever start on this :)
16:53:36 <gour> daedeloth: btw, which langauge you want to use? php?
16:53:39 <daedeloth> yea, php
16:53:43 <daedeloth> mysql backend
16:53:46 <daedeloth> and a lot of javascript
16:53:56 <gour> why not mariadb?
16:54:23 <daedeloth> don't know that
16:54:28 <daedeloth> also, not supported by popular webhosts
16:54:37 <daedeloth> I really want something standard that everyone can install
16:54:55 <daedeloth> by the way, I'm really planning to make it open source, so if anyone is interested in a new adventure, feel free to join the crew ;)
16:55:38 <daedeloth> ah, another thing why I rather have a webapp than a software is real time sale statistics
16:55:58 <daedeloth> at the moment 70% of my work in gnucash is import QIF files that I generated from my payment gateway
16:56:19 <daedeloth> in a webapp I can easily just make my payment gateway report to my accounting software
16:56:26 <gour> all the best, but we prefer desktop app anytime
16:56:46 <daedeloth> sure, I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just here for feedback :)
16:58:17 <gour> you can add stuff to myclientbase instead, or fork it
16:58:42 <daedeloth> yea
16:58:43 <gour> it's codeigniter-2.0 app
16:58:50 <daedeloth> maybe I should take a closer look at that as well
16:59:00 <daedeloth> but I don't like jumping in existing code tbh
16:59:10 <daedeloth> although I should
16:59:56 <gour> daedeloth: check http://www.myclientbase.com/support/index.php?topic=234.0
17:00:50 <daedeloth> hm sounds like it's more an advanced contact manager they are adding
17:01:43 <daedeloth> well in theory I should be able to use MCB as base and use it's invoice system in the ledger
17:04:20 <gour> warlord: chris dennis who did eguile, is not around any longer?
17:14:31 *** fbond has quit IRC
17:14:42 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
17:28:23 * gour --> sleep
17:28:28 <gour> 'night folks
17:28:31 *** gour has quit IRC
17:32:06 *** arnotixe has joined #gnucash
17:39:49 *** jonathan has joined #gnucash
17:40:36 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
17:56:55 *** fDavid has quit IRC
18:00:14 *** ErKa has quit IRC
19:10:52 *** jonathan has quit IRC
19:17:07 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
19:30:50 *** rpg has quit IRC
19:31:34 *** rpg has joined #gnucash
19:35:04 *** fDavid has quit IRC
19:39:36 *** gnome1 has quit IRC
19:42:03 *** jonathan has joined #gnucash
19:45:34 *** gnome has joined #gnucash
19:52:36 *** jonathan has quit IRC
20:15:47 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
20:46:05 *** williepabon has joined #gnucash
20:48:28 *** gnome has quit IRC
20:49:21 *** williepabon has quit IRC
20:50:19 *** williepabon has joined #gnucash
20:51:31 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
20:51:57 *** jonathan has joined #gnucash
20:52:27 <williepabon> I'm trying to reconcile my bank account but I get at the bottom line Cleared: 546.08 Reconciled: 486.08
20:53:25 <williepabon> I know that I have two transactions from my previous reconciliation with a c instead of a y on the reconciled column.
20:54:07 <warlord> that implies they got un-reconciled somehow..
20:54:17 <warlord> you can just re-reconcile them next time around.
20:55:58 <williepabon> A deposit for $100.0 and a debit for $40.00. From my bank papers I get Initial balance of $546.08 but when I click to reconcile on the GNUcash program I get 486.08
20:57:19 <williepabon> I know that the above transactions are the ones with the problem, but I don't know how to get them with a y instead of a c to do this months reconciliation.
20:58:49 <warlord> williepabon: ignore the starting balance. type in the correct ending balance from your statement. Then just re-click on those transactions during reconcile.
21:02:58 <williepabon> Will do, thanks.
21:04:21 *** jonathan has quit IRC
21:06:42 *** Jimraehl1 has quit IRC
21:08:35 *** jonathan has joined #gnucash
21:25:58 *** williepabon has quit IRC
21:27:57 *** jonathan has quit IRC
21:55:40 *** pnema has joined #gnucash
23:34:27 *** pnema has quit IRC