2011-12-31 GnuCash IRC logs

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04:43:47 <jmd> My bank has just sent me a new card. How do I get it set up in Gnucash?
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16:01:10 <gour> evening
16:01:48 <gour> i consider to use GC to track finances of our household & small business...do you suggest to separate business part from the rest?
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16:35:26 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
16:35:57 <warlord> hey gour. yeah, you should use a different 'book' (dataset) for business.. Yes, if you have transactions that cross you will have to enter them twice, but that's as it should be.
16:37:24 <gour> warlord: what abou a household accounts (me, wife, mother)? keep 'em together?
16:39:24 <warlord> You and wife, yes. mother -- depends.
16:39:32 <gour> :-)
16:40:54 <gour> we consider it's one budget and often money is transferred from one bank account to the other, according to the needs
16:41:29 <warlord> But are you tracking all of your mothers' income?
16:41:37 <warlord> (or your wife's?)
16:41:38 <gour> yes
16:42:36 <gour> same with the 'company'...i'm the owner and the only one employed (for now)
16:43:13 <warlord> Sure, but it's a separate taxable entity and should have its own books.
16:43:20 <gour> both mother & wife do not like computers, except some light surfing from time to time
16:43:33 <gour> ok, that's clear
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16:44:33 <gour> another thing...what do you recommend as safest option: xml or sqlite? and if it's the former, is there any use of keeping *.gnucash files under dvcs?
16:45:22 * gour hopes to (finally) make year 2012 the year of intensive use of GC
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16:50:19 * warlord uses xml
16:50:32 <warlord> devs (and users) are still finding data-loss bugs in SQL
16:50:48 <warlord> .. like you make a change to your data but it doesn't get saved in SQL
16:51:30 <warlord> I suspect in 2.6 it'll be 'better'... but until we have full integration tests that utilize every feature of every object to test them in the backend, I dont know how "safe" I would consider SQL.
16:51:31 <gour> ohh...then xml is surely the way...what about keeping it under dvcs?
16:58:15 <gour> 2012 is close here...it's time to sleep...'night and happy new year!
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17:25:54 <Zellfaze> Is it possible to increase account precision up to 8 digits beyond the decimal point? I'm working in a currency that requires that much precision for all my accounts.
17:28:27 <warlord> Last I heard the 6-digit limit in the register was hard-coded.
17:28:35 <warlord> You would have to recompile to get better than 6
17:28:40 <warlord> but... what currency is this?
17:29:22 <Zellfaze> Bitcoin.
17:29:44 <Zellfaze> http://www.bitcoin.org/
17:29:48 <Zellfaze> That is no fun.
17:30:31 <Zellfaze> Recompiling is more work than I want to go through just to keep track of my Bitcoins on the computer. I can use a paper ledger for them.
17:35:44 <warlord> Ah. Bitcoin.
17:36:27 <warlord> If you really need to keep track of 0.00000001 BCN then yeah, GnuCash might have trouble with that (from a display perspective)
17:36:44 <Zellfaze> Will it save the extra digits?
17:37:36 <Zellfaze> I'm more concerned with the math being off than the display being off. I can always open up the GnuCash file in a text editor if I need to see the exact balance.
17:38:17 <Simon> I think it would always be correct once compiled for 8 digits
17:38:20 <Zellfaze> Also Bitcoin is abbreviated BTC. :P
17:38:41 <Simon> you can't enter more than 6 digits if it's only capable of that
17:38:52 <Zellfaze> Alright.
17:38:56 <Simon> (just like you can't enter more than 2 digits for GBP/EUR/USD/CAD/etc. - it will truncate it)
17:39:31 <Zellfaze> Since warlord had added "(from a display perspective)" I thought perhaps it would save the extra digits, just round for the display.
17:40:30 <Zellfaze> Also does adding a new currency to GnuCash require recompiling? I found XML files that appear to contain a list of all the currencies, but modifying them appeared to have no effect.
17:41:01 <Zellfaze> I eventually settled on using XTS for my book.
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18:06:04 <warlord> It will save extra digits *IF* you can enter them. The issue is that the UI wont let you enter more than 6 decimal digits, and that's hard-coded.
18:10:48 <Zellfaze> I see.
18:11:47 <Zellfaze> Has there ever been discussion about adding an option to change the max precision for a currency? I saw that an option for changing the precision for investments was added at one point. Not sure how small it lets you go though.
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18:13:47 <warlord> 6 digits.
18:13:53 <warlord> That's the hard-coded limit.
18:14:11 <warlord> BTC is the first thing in the universe to require higher precision
18:14:40 <warlord> Why not change your units to 1/100 or 1/1000 of a BTC?
18:14:55 <warlord> So instead of saying 1 == 1BTC, say 1000 = 1BTC?
18:15:24 <warlord> (internally we store as rational numbers, so 1E-8 would be 1 / 100000000
18:17:20 <Zellfaze> Because I actually transact in Satoshis sometimes (a Satoshi is the smallest unit of Bitcoin 0.00000001BTC).
18:17:49 <warlord> Ah, then why not make your units Satoshis?
18:17:52 <Zellfaze> The current balance in my wallet ends with .77212678.
18:17:58 <Zellfaze> Oh that is a good idea actually.
18:18:33 <warlord> So then you would have 77,212,678 Satoshis?
18:18:40 <warlord> (e.g. Yen)
18:18:54 <Zellfaze> I could do that. I hadn't thought about that.
18:19:20 <Zellfaze> It would actually be better for me to use Microbitcoins (mBTC) because my client supports displaying it's balance that way.
18:19:40 <Zellfaze> Then I wouldn't have to do as much math.
18:19:56 <Zellfaze> I can't believe I hadn't thought of that actually. Thank you warlord.
18:20:32 <warlord> you are welcome.
18:24:20 <Zellfaze> Any ideas about the XML file thing though? What purpose do they hold if GnuCash doesn't actually read them for it's list of currencies.
18:24:29 <warlord> ??
18:24:35 <warlord> what "xml file thing"?
18:27:28 <Zellfaze> "Also does adding a new currency to GnuCash require recompiling? I found XML files that appear to contain a list of all the currencies, but modifying them appeared to have no effect."
18:29:11 <warlord> the 6-digit limit is hard-coded in the register implementation
18:29:25 <warlord> it has nothing to do with whatever XML file you found.
18:30:24 <warlord> Which XML file did you find? Where is it installed?
18:30:27 <Zellfaze> I know. This was a separate question.
18:30:50 * Zellfaze hunts it down again.
18:32:37 <Zellfaze> On Windows: $installpath/share/xml/iso-codes/iso_4217.xml
18:34:42 <jmd> Zellfaze, No. You don't need to rebuild to add a new currency
18:36:51 <Zellfaze> Alright, what is the point of those XML files then?
18:37:32 <jmd> I've no idea.
18:38:25 <Zellfaze> Fair enough. xD
18:41:26 <warlord> Ah, I think that's from the iso-codes package -- it's used for the ISO translations.
18:41:43 <warlord> That's not a gnucash file -- gnucash itself doesn't use it at all.
18:44:55 <Zellfaze> Ah I see. There is a lot of stuff that is hard coded into GnuCash it seems. Has the community ever pushed for a more flexible approach. I know internally GnuCash uses a modular system.
18:45:24 <Zellfaze> So the philophies of separation (is there a better way or an actual term for that?) are not unknown to the devs.
18:49:04 <warlord> The list of commodities is generated at build time from a scheme list, so it is *relatively* easy to change it. But ISO currency lists changes so infrequently it doesn't matter.
18:53:29 <Zellfaze> I sounded very pompous there. I apologize for that.
18:54:15 <Zellfaze> That is better than nothing, but as I myself am not going to change it, I guess I have no room to complain.
18:54:40 <jmd> I'm trying to compile gnucash. It complains that SLIB is not installed. Athough, in fact it is. The configure script refers to a couple of bugzilla reports. But neither of the actually explain the issue. What the hell does it want?
18:57:52 <warlord> it wants slib to be installed and properly configured. what OS/Distro are you using?
18:58:12 <warlord> Most likely your OS/Distro doesn't properly configure slib.
18:58:30 <warlord> ... or you have multiple versions of guile.
18:58:40 <warlord> (slib can only be configured for one of them)
19:01:56 <warlord> anyways, I'm off for the night. Happy New Year everyone!
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19:03:58 <jmd> It's Debian stable.
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